"Swift" Jewelry crafting is over performing

DUTCH_REAPER

My blanket statement is from people crying alllll the dang time about this game. Poor mDK nerfd into a former shadow of its original self. If you don’t like someone engaging you and bouncing out with quickness why not just make your build to counter that play style and chases down or locked down? That is what I’m saying.

As far as keeping nerfs on monster sets why not just wear impen and negate it but whatever. I’m not spending anymore energy on discussion with you people. Maybe one day I will wake up and the game will just be all classes get access to all skills etc and the crying will finally stop.

Iki

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Iki wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Jewelry traits are typically worth more than a 5pc bonus. For example 3X Arcane gives 2610 Max Magicka before multipliers, which is greater than the 2400 from the destruction mastery set (and Arcane gets a 20% multiplier from CPs that DM does not). 3X Infused with weapon damage enchants results in 313 weapon damage before multipliers, slightly higher than Hundings or the average Briarheart bonus.

Yes. How about we then compare swift to sets aswell, shall we? 3x swift, 30% movement speed is like 3x jailbreaker-set that give minor expedition (+10% speed). 3x infused give only little bit more wep/spell-dmg than hundings/julianos x1, while swift give thrice what set dedicated to increase movement-speed give. When compared to other sets that give speed: Cowards set give major expedition only when sprinting while also giving major protection, but that speed is not up all the time and you pay for it every second with stamina. Fiords legacy give +15% sprint speed and reduce sprint-cost, not up all the time, you pay for speed again. Skooma smuggler give major expedition after drinking potion, I recall it was only for 30 seconds. Sets that increase speed have conditions and costs, and in practise give you far less than 3x swift.. Swift-jewelry is superior option to all those sets.

If we want to compare to useless sets I can play that game too. 3X Bloodthirsty can add more than 5 times the damage of the Ashen Grip set.

I think a more relevant comparison would be 3X swift vs Vicious Ophidian 5pc, which gives the same 30% speed boost, as well as 8% stamina cost reduction, stamina restore on kills, AND 129 weapon damage.

Jailbreaker sure is lackluster set, but the reason I compared swift to it is, that jailbreaker got same function than swift, permanent increase to movement speed without conditions. Theres no other such set. Vicious ophidian falls to same category with other sets I mentioned, cowards, fiords, skooma smuggler... they do not give you speed for 100% of time, theres conditions. Vicious ophidian requires you to kill something to get major expedition, until that it only give 8% cost-reduction and wep dmg. I didn`t make comparison to lackluster set to make my argument look better, but because I see that set being only one suitable for that comparison.

JackDaniell

Movement is the biggest determining factor to solo survival in pvp. Swift boosts all movement speed. The reason that i like swift so much is because it doesnt reward you for spamming, you have to be smart about where and how you move/roll in order to use the trait properly. If you just slot some swift and say "i should have no problems surviving now" you wil get a rude awakening as to what you have to actualy do now that you have your swift on. Your kite game needs to be good, especialy if you have enough damage to kill someone on your squishy swift build. In my experiance i have to avoid all damage cause once i get hit its everyone at the same time and instant death.

Swift also forces you to fine tune your build more because you give up a big chunk of max stat. If you just build to run away then you never get kills. However if you build swift with damage you have to give up sustain or tankiness, so now you can run away but if you get hit your dead.

From my experiance swift is useful in the hands of a good player, but ineffective for an inexperianced player. Swift rewards good decisions more and punishes bad ones harder. This to me isnt op, but a part of the game that becomes very strong when you take the time to learn its style and learn pvp in this game.

Lexxypwns

Ashanne wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@Qbiken 3x robust jewels is about as much stam as hulking Draugr. So no, the damage loss isn’t negligible

870 + 870 + 870 equals 1090 + 1090 + 1090 + 2500 ?

870+870+870 > 2500

It’s the equivalent of trading a 5pc bonus for 30% speed. Big damage loss.

@Arthg you’re not counting the buffs to stam you receive, up to 10% for racial, 20% for CP. that pushes it to ~4K stam from 3x robust or more equivalent WD than Hundings(and actually 4.3k stam on Stam Sorc). For magika it can be even higher damage loss, a mageblade could lose almost 5k max mag.

Chilly-McFreeze

JackDaniell wrote: »

Your kite game needs to be good, especialy if you have enough damage to kill someone on your squishy swift build.

I agree on most of your comment but Swift doesn't stop me from using it with e.g. 2 dmg proc sets, TK and 5 heavy. So I'm neither extra squishy nor do I need big stats for damage. Question is who's the real culprit here, swift or proc sets?

Malamar1229

I run this on my magicka sorc now, almost have to.

Malamar1229

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

"nothing wrong nor shamefull with running away from a fight, return later when you have friends or your more equipt to handle that battle."

want to know where i got that sentence from?
it's from the wording on both and eso AND morrowind LOADING screen

and its completely truth, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with being allowed to escape a fight.

Weren't you parading for nerfs
to streak???

Arthg

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Ashanne wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@Qbiken 3x robust jewels is about as much stam as hulking Draugr. So no, the damage loss isn’t negligible

870 + 870 + 870 equals 1090 + 1090 + 1090 + 2500 ?

870+870+870 > 2500

It’s the equivalent of trading a 5pc bonus for 30% speed. Big damage loss.

@Arthg you’re not counting the buffs to stam you receive, up to 10% for racial, 20% for CP. that pushes it to ~4K stam from 3x robust or more equivalent WD than Hundings(and actually 4.3k stam on Stam Sorc). For magika it can be even higher damage loss, a mageblade could lose almost 5k max mag.

Of course, silly me.

You guys are starting to convince me the trait is not that OP.
I use two pieces and feel really empowered on my DK though, and lots of players use the trait on my platform.

EDIT: draft I didn't mean to publish removed.

Lexxypwns

Arthg wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Ashanne wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@Qbiken 3x robust jewels is about as much stam as hulking Draugr. So no, the damage loss isn’t negligible

870 + 870 + 870 equals 1090 + 1090 + 1090 + 2500 ?

870+870+870 > 2500

It’s the equivalent of trading a 5pc bonus for 30% speed. Big damage loss.

@Arthg you’re not counting the buffs to stam you receive, up to 10% for racial, 20% for CP. that pushes it to ~4K stam from 3x robust or more equivalent WD than Hundings(and actually 4.3k stam on Stam Sorc). For magika it can be even higher damage loss, a mageblade could lose almost 5k max mag.

Of course, silly me.

You guys are starting to convince me the trait is not that OP.
I use two pieces and feel really empowered on my DK though, and lots of players use the trait on my platform.

EDIT: draft I didn't mean to publish removed.

It’s good, no question swift is strong, but you make sacrifices to run it and there are situations where it doesn’t help you. For example, when you finally have to stop kiting and kill someone(unless you’re using jabs/sweeps then it does help there too).

The fact is that using swift is a meaningful build decision that has trade offs. Most jewelry traits are good and that’s awesome let’s not start nerfing things because they’re better under one set of circumstances.

cHIIMEERa

You could always equip stampede for that 60% movement speed reduction. You're welcome:)

Sanct16

The question is: How much worse could swift be for people to still run it?

Just because something is strong enough to be viable doesn't mean it's op. There are by far more people who run Arcane/Robust jewelery than there is people using swift jewelery. Nerfing swift will reduce the variety - we don't need another useless trait.

WhipSmartMcoy

People complained about roots and snares for years, now they're complaining about mobility.
They should just take movement out of the game and no one can die or deal damage. That seems to be what people want honestly

idk

Moosey27 wrote: »

This should be a stacked buff up to 10%. First bonus 2% next 5% and if you do 3 10%. Run buff is to OP. To much running, not enough fighting.

First, your amount per item is opposite of the normal diminishing returns making it a bad idea from the start. After all it is already capped.

Second, they are giving up damage for extra survival. I am not suggesting any of these new traits do not need a rebalance but this seems to be a fair trade off.

Rittings

i'd like weapon damage on jewelry to be nerfed... because when I get caught in my swift jewelry I get whooped without remorse...

You see how idiotic this thread is??

tonemd

I've seen 2 circumstances where swift is dangerous:

1. When a group is wearing it and playing the drag players to a choke point and reverse game ( hard to escape when lagging)
2. Being chased when you our of resources by a swift two hander.

Both situations are avoidable. Other than that, swift is just annoying, which triggers player recklessness. Just don't take the bait.

NightbladeMechanics

We raised this issue in the last meeting, and Eric has acknowledged swift's strength and is considering possible nerfs. He hasn't decided what exactly should be done yet, if anything, but it's in discussions now.

Wise_Will

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

We raised this issue in the last meeting, and Eric has acknowledged swift's strength and is considering possible nerfs. He hasn't decided what exactly should be done yet, if anything, but it's in discussions now.

Clearly you only represent the PVP community, as all you lot seem to do is get everything nerfed because your not good enough to kill people. And once again Casual PvE gets a huge hit because of you babies. GREAT JOB!

gabriebe

Swift jewelry looks like it was designed to counterplay the old snare system, where 70% snare would last for a long time. These were adjusted over several patches, but swift jewelry hit the market as is without consideration for it.

There isn't much counterplay when you can't land a hit on the enemy. If you can do that with a hard snare like 70% from the old Heroic Slash, it should be rewarded by a duration longer than 4 seconds. And even then, it's so easy to use Swift with Heavy and Forward Momentum that it doesn't really matter if you do land a hit.

Here's an idea: reduce movement speed when wearing 5 pieces of heavy, or limit the speed cap when wearing 5 heavy to 30%.

WeyounTM

I really don't think that swift should be touched at all. As mentioned already in this thread you do lose a considerable amount of power, which is a tradeoff in itself. Second of all there are also people using it in PvE just for the fun of it or to be able to be faster while harversting those nodes....
More importantly in my opinion swift is needed in its current form in PvP to counter all those range builds that safely attack you from miles away. Heck, those players even get a juicy buff to all of their abilities when they are near a keep in Cyro. I wonder what all the melee users get while near a keep? And don't you dare tell me to use a gapcloser to get that sniper dude or magsorc on the wall ;-)
Same thing applies in some battleground maps. Especially in Foyada Quarry...where range is reigning supreme and line of sight is a rare thing to actually get. On the other hand I might be just awful

So leave them swifts alone ;-)

Bosov

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Maybe not everyone wants to fight. Or maybe it’s not that they are too good at running, you are just not good enough at chasing.

Anyway, it’s a mediocre trait with situational utility use. Don’t try to fix things that aren’t broken.

In that case you shouldnt be in a PvP zone... leave to a dead campaign or leave and go play PvE and free up space for someone who wants to PvP or atleast reduce the serverlag by leaving.

Ive wasted 40k stamina on crit rushing someone (ofcourse because Zenimax cant code on 10% of those actually did damage) but the dude just kept riding away on his horse while putting up rapids. When he finally fell of his horse from poison dots i had to jog after him and was out of stamina. I was like "*** im out of stam.. after all this chasing he is going to kill me now" but instead he must have spammed all his magicka away by streaking away 10 times in a row.

Those kind of players shouldnt be in Vivec at prime time.

Chilly-McFreeze

Bosov wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Maybe not everyone wants to fight. Or maybe it’s not that they are too good at running, you are just not good enough at chasing.

Anyway, it’s a mediocre trait with situational utility use. Don’t try to fix things that aren’t broken.

In that case you shouldnt be in a PvP zone... leave to a dead campaign or leave and go play PvE and free up space for someone who wants to PvP or atleast reduce the serverlag by leaving.

Ive wasted 40k stamina on crit rushing someone (ofcourse because Zenimax cant code on 10% of those actually did damage) but the dude just kept riding away on his horse while putting up rapids. When he finally fell of his horse from poison dots i had to jog after him and was out of stamina. I was like "*** im out of stam.. after all this chasing he is going to kill me now" but instead he must have spammed all his magicka away by streaking away 10 times in a row.

Those kind of players shouldnt be in Vivec at prime time.

So you can chase someone who rides at full speed + rapids via gap closer spam? Gap closers OP!

Maryal

Biro123 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Every single Swift jewel can be countered by another Swift jewel. If you're not willing to sacrifice Arcane or Robust, that's your problem.

That's kind of the definition of over-performing.

no it's not

Xsorus

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

We raised this issue in the last meeting, and Eric has acknowledged swift's strength and is considering possible nerfs. He hasn't decided what exactly should be done yet, if anything, but it's in discussions now.

Good Job *grin*.

You've helped so much *slow clap*

Sanct16

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

We raised this issue in the last meeting, and Eric has acknowledged swift's strength and is considering possible nerfs. He hasn't decided what exactly should be done yet, if anything, but it's in discussions now.

70% of players are still using Arcane/Robust. Can we please get those nerfed too?

Elong

FFS.

Waylander07

I use swift and tbh I think that it is op but that is just my opinion.