[BG] How to optimise a group ?

Morgul667

Im starting to dig in BG groups optimization ... which I have not done before and I would love to hear from you guys if you already have some ideas on how to optimise your BG group ?

1. What roles / class and sets do you advise to run ? what synergy do you advise ?
PS: Let's be optimistics and consider that sloads is nerfed so it does not sum up as 1 healer + 3 DD in sloads

2. What do you adjust for the different types of games you face ?

Lexxypwns

Imo, optimal group setup is:

1x magplar - healbot, should accept that he’ll get 0 kills and virtually no damage. This is the most important class for a pre-made, the heals and purify make everything else work.

1x magsorc - single target burst + best execute in the game.

2x Stam Warden - cross healing, huge aoe burst, if you sync Sub combos it’s GG. They have to hit the purifies though or defiles and sload will overcome their heaing.

Magplar should be in Olorime+Trans/Riposte and Earthgore
Wardens will be responsible for covering Troll King and Durok’s between themselves.

For defensive ults you have 2 restos(sorc and magplar) 1 tree(stam warden) and 1 permafrost(the other warden, make sure they both have DB slotted for offensive ult dumps).

Mojomonkeyman

Magplar, MagDK, MagWarden + x (we mainly used either 2nd MagDK, MagSorc or MagNB)
No healbot, Magwarden & Magplar being both assist heal and assist dmg
95%+ winrate / 1k games played as group

Morgul667

Interesting thanks

So basically one healbot + dps with lots of self heal and debuff (durok)

Or 2 assist heal + magdk (for cc?) + mag dps for shiels and utilities

Any other good advice ? Im still putting pieces together and wondering how my stamsorc can fit in there ^^

Thogard

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Imo, optimal group setup is:

1x magplar - healbot, should accept that he’ll get 0 kills and virtually no damage. This is the most important class for a pre-made, the heals and purify make everything else work.

1x magsorc - single target burst + best execute in the game.

2x Stam Warden - cross healing, huge aoe burst, if you sync Sub combos it’s GG. They have to hit the purifies though or defiles and sload will overcome their heaing.

Magplar should be in Olorime+Trans/Riposte and Earthgore
Wardens will be responsible for covering Troll King and Durok’s between themselves.

For defensive ults you have 2 restos(sorc and magplar) 1 tree(stam warden) and 1 permafrost(the other warden, make sure they both have DB slotted for offensive ult dumps).

This is a great setup for when you have three highly skilled teams

We’ve also had a lot of success running
2x stamden
1x magden
1x Stamplar

Can drop a stamden mag sorc if all teams are good (if a lot of premades are queueing). Mag sorc isn’t ideal in 4v4 but it is ideal in 4v4v4

The magden using Spider-Man vines can keep up with an aggressively pushing Stam train better. Not as good at healing though.

del9

Morgul667 wrote: »

Interesting thanks

So basically one healbot + dps with lots of self heal and debuff (durok)

Or 2 assist heal + magdk (for cc?) + mag dps for shiels and utilities

Any other good advice ? Im still putting pieces together and wondering how my stamsorc can fit in there ^^

Plenty of room for a good stamsorc in those DPS slots. IMO stamsorc synergizes best with the high-mobility composition using a magden healer and stamplar.

2 stamdens is best in many situations for stacking subs, but stacking a few spin2win on your stam dps is strong enough that you can play your mains and tweak the formula. And the better your mates, the less you will need to rely on stamden cross-healing and sub stacks.

Stamsorc will have the big DBs, and coordinated DBs will be how you secure kills vs good groups. They can also pickup extra executes, have nice self healing, and insane overall damage. The only problem is lacking other group utility and dont have sub assault.

Stamblade has enough tools to take up one of the stam dps as well. Fears, incaps. If a stamblade communicate well they can be deadly in closely-matched fights.

StamDK has fossilize and there are probably only a handful of people on each server that could pull their weight as a stamdk in an 'optimized group'. On the other hand you could craft some really nasty compositions with a magdk.

Bfish22090

4 sloads wearers that can self heal

del9

Since you ask, I have seen groups who seem to optimize for chaos ball. 2 Magplars 1 Magden 1 MagDk with guard, Earthgore, WR, Duroks, Trans, all that. The problem now is that these kind of groups are now a threat to pickup kills in TDM because, sloads/zaan.

CatchMeTrolling

Personally if I ran groups and wanted to be aids it would be a magplar & dk by default, then choose a sorc or magblade (most likely sorc because of the execute) then choose any stam class including stam dk since they’re naturally very brawly.

Dk for crowd control and aoe damage. Templar would be for purify, power of the light , aoe damage and off heals. Would prefer a one utility set and the ability to go from offense to defense (healing) if necessary. Sorc for ranged dps and kill stealing. Stam for dps, execute, face tanking, defile, pressure etc. all depends on the class.

Apherius

Nothing better than Magplar + Mag warden
Both healing/buffing the team while doing damage.

Thogard

Apherius wrote: »

Nothing better than Magplar + Mag warden
Both healing/buffing the team while doing damage.

EU player detected

WillhelmBlack

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Imo, optimal group setup is:

1x magplar - healbot, should accept that he’ll get 0 kills and virtually no damage. This is the most important class for a pre-made, the heals and purify make everything else work.

1x magsorc - single target burst + best execute in the game.

2x Stam Warden - cross healing, huge aoe burst, if you sync Sub combos it’s GG. They have to hit the purifies though or defiles and sload will overcome their heaing.

Magplar should be in Olorime+Trans/Riposte and Earthgore
Wardens will be responsible for covering Troll King and Durok’s between themselves.

For defensive ults you have 2 restos(sorc and magplar) 1 tree(stam warden) and 1 permafrost(the other warden, make sure they both have DB slotted for offensive ult dumps).

It's pretty much this. So can we now delete the thread before all diversity has gone from Battlegrounds?

Get good at your class, get better friends, start learning how each of them play and you'll start winning every match even without discord. Most of all enjoy yourself and don't let the Sloads and 8k Sorc executes get to you.

Morgul667

Thanks

Interesting to see

Aznox

Is there even enough opposition in BG for a premade meta to appear and evolve ?

It seems a group of 4 skilled individuals using voice com and any composition with the basics covered (healing, CC, burst) would already be above 80% winrate.

Are fights between such premades frequent enough to warrant adaptation, trial-and-error, etc.. ?

Mojomonkeyman

Aznox wrote: »

Is there even enough opposition in BG for a premade meta to appear and evolve ?

It seems a group of 4 skilled individuals using voice com and any composition with the basics covered (healing, CC, burst) would already be above 80% winrate.

Are fights between such premades frequent enough to warrant adaptation, trial-and-error, etc.. ?

Last patch it was, since there was about 3 premades sharing top mmr, so when those were queuing at the same time you would get instant matches vs each other. It was great.

Btw, thanks to Blackjack + Team and Dusk + Team for all the amazing matches.

Lexxypwns

.

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Imo, optimal group setup is:

1x magplar - healbot, should accept that he’ll get 0 kills and virtually no damage. This is the most important class for a pre-made, the heals and purify make everything else work.

1x magsorc - single target burst + best execute in the game.

2x Stam Warden - cross healing, huge aoe burst, if you sync Sub combos it’s GG. They have to hit the purifies though or defiles and sload will overcome their heaing.

Magplar should be in Olorime+Trans/Riposte and Earthgore
Wardens will be responsible for covering Troll King and Durok’s between themselves.

For defensive ults you have 2 restos(sorc and magplar) 1 tree(stam warden) and 1 permafrost(the other warden, make sure they both have DB slotted for offensive ult dumps).

It's pretty much this. So can we now delete the thread before all diversity has gone from Battlegrounds?

Get good at your class, get better friends, start learning how each of them play and you'll start winning every match even without discord. Most of all enjoy yourself and don't let the Sloads and 8k Sorc executes get to you.

The issue is that some teams are running optimized or near optimized pre-made groups and since MMR is weird a lot of high tier PVPERs end up in matches 3v4v4 against these groups as a solo queue. No amount of l2p lets you consistently compete with 4 people in a coordinated group, much less against 2 such groups.

For many of us this means avoid BGs or build our own 4 man.

@Thogard I really love that setup as well since your stamplar provides purifies and your magden has more/better HoTs than a Magplar. It does require more skill than a Magplar centered group, but you still end up with 3 healing ults and a permafrost so you can easily survive a coordinated ult dump.

@del9 teach me to stam sorc

Morgul667

Lexxypwns wrote: »

.

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Imo, optimal group setup is:

1x magplar - healbot, should accept that he’ll get 0 kills and virtually no damage. This is the most important class for a pre-made, the heals and purify make everything else work.

1x magsorc - single target burst + best execute in the game.

2x Stam Warden - cross healing, huge aoe burst, if you sync Sub combos it’s GG. They have to hit the purifies though or defiles and sload will overcome their heaing.

Magplar should be in Olorime+Trans/Riposte and Earthgore
Wardens will be responsible for covering Troll King and Durok’s between themselves.

For defensive ults you have 2 restos(sorc and magplar) 1 tree(stam warden) and 1 permafrost(the other warden, make sure they both have DB slotted for offensive ult dumps).

It's pretty much this. So can we now delete the thread before all diversity has gone from Battlegrounds?

Get good at your class, get better friends, start learning how each of them play and you'll start winning every match even without discord. Most of all enjoy yourself and don't let the Sloads and 8k Sorc executes get to you.

The issue is that some teams are running optimized or near optimized pre-made groups and since MMR is weird a lot of high tier PVPERs end up in matches 3v4v4 against these groups as a solo queue. No amount of l2p lets you consistently compete with 4 people in a coordinated group, much less against 2 such groups.

For many of us this means avoid BGs or build our own 4 man.

@Thogard I really love that setup as well since your stamplar provides purifies and your magden has more/better HoTs than a Magplar. It does require more skill than a Magplar centered group, but you still end up with 3 healing ults and a permafrost so you can easily survive a coordinated ult dump.

@del9 teach me to stam sorc

Please teach me to stam sorc too

Lexxypwns

Morgul667 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

.

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Imo, optimal group setup is:

1x magplar - healbot, should accept that he’ll get 0 kills and virtually no damage. This is the most important class for a pre-made, the heals and purify make everything else work.

1x magsorc - single target burst + best execute in the game.

2x Stam Warden - cross healing, huge aoe burst, if you sync Sub combos it’s GG. They have to hit the purifies though or defiles and sload will overcome their heaing.

Magplar should be in Olorime+Trans/Riposte and Earthgore
Wardens will be responsible for covering Troll King and Durok’s between themselves.

For defensive ults you have 2 restos(sorc and magplar) 1 tree(stam warden) and 1 permafrost(the other warden, make sure they both have DB slotted for offensive ult dumps).

It's pretty much this. So can we now delete the thread before all diversity has gone from Battlegrounds?

Get good at your class, get better friends, start learning how each of them play and you'll start winning every match even without discord. Most of all enjoy yourself and don't let the Sloads and 8k Sorc executes get to you.

The issue is that some teams are running optimized or near optimized pre-made groups and since MMR is weird a lot of high tier PVPERs end up in matches 3v4v4 against these groups as a solo queue. No amount of l2p lets you consistently compete with 4 people in a coordinated group, much less against 2 such groups.

For many of us this means avoid BGs or build our own 4 man.

@Thogard I really love that setup as well since your stamplar provides purifies and your magden has more/better HoTs than a Magplar. It does require more skill than a Magplar centered group, but you still end up with 3 healing ults and a permafrost so you can easily survive a coordinated ult dump.

@del9 teach me to stam sorc

Please teach me to stam sorc too

I can’t find a build with 5k weapon damage and enough sustain and defense

Adenoma

IMO, you can drop the magsorc from the @Lexxypwns group for a magwarden. You lose streak CC, but you gain an AOE defile that doesn’t require a 5 piece, then get another slot for a stamden trees ult while the Magden can carry resto ult and permafrost. It also lets a stamwarden stop carrying durok’s and swap to 2x damage sets like fury + 7th/ravager. Magden keeps up with DPS pretty well via Spider-Man heal.

IMO, I’d want to be more keen to put an earthgore on a stamden and then give the magwarden and magplar blood spawn to make them a little more tanky with increased ult gain so you can keep cycling resto ult for the group.

Lexxypwns

Adenoma wrote: »

IMO, you can drop the magsorc from the @Lexxypwns group for a magwarden. You lose streak CC, but you gain an AOE defile that doesn’t require a 5 piece, then get another slot for a stamden trees ult while the Magden can carry resto ult and permafrost. It also lets a stamwarden stop carrying durok’s and swap to 2x damage sets like fury + 7th/ravager. Magden keeps up with DPS pretty well via Spider-Man heal.

IMO, I’d want to be more keen to put an earthgore on a stamden and then give the magwarden and magplar blood spawn to make them a little more tanky with increased ult gain so you can keep cycling resto ult for the group.

Isn’t a mageblade better than a mag warden in almost every way as a secondary healer role? similar healing, more damage, better ult gen, better sustain. Duroks+Trans+Troll with VMA resto while your magplar runs Wizards.

Neither packs the offensive punch of Mag Sorc in team fights, particularly when the sorc can sit back and pack on damage behind the pressure the warden provide. Streak is glorious with stam wardens.

Thogard

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

IMO, you can drop the magsorc from the @Lexxypwns group for a magwarden. You lose streak CC, but you gain an AOE defile that doesn’t require a 5 piece, then get another slot for a stamden trees ult while the Magden can carry resto ult and permafrost. It also lets a stamwarden stop carrying durok’s and swap to 2x damage sets like fury + 7th/ravager. Magden keeps up with DPS pretty well via Spider-Man heal.

IMO, I’d want to be more keen to put an earthgore on a stamden and then give the magwarden and magplar blood spawn to make them a little more tanky with increased ult gain so you can keep cycling resto ult for the group.

Isn’t a mageblade better than a mag warden in almost every way as a secondary healer role? similar healing, more damage, better ult gen, better sustain. Duroks+Trans+Troll with VMA resto while your magplar runs Wizards.

Neither packs the offensive punch of Mag Sorc in team fights, particularly when the sorc can sit back and pack on damage behind the pressure the warden provide. Streak is glorious with stam wardens.

It really depends on how mobile the group is. We often run magden as healer because we are extremely fast and we aggressively push through to the opponent’s back line and gap close to ult dump and drop their mag sorc first. This is one of the reasons why other teams don’t use mag sorcs... or at least they didn’t until we stopped queueing on our stamden stamsorc stamplar magden build because MMR. Now the cat is away and the mice have all come out to play.

Mage blade lacks push mobility. Same with mag sorc. They’re both mobile, but it’s a defensive kind of mobility. On the other hand, magden can gap close onto friendlies and stack their defile and beetles with a stamden’s, and magplar can gap close an enemy with a Mag gap closer. Both allow aggressive offensive pushing, which allows you to invert the fight and kill the enemy backline but also to put that enemy’s Stam train in between your group and the third group that’s approaching from the side

Adenoma

I think there’s a lot of value in being able to stack beetles for solid offensive burst. Sure, the damage will be mediocre, but even adding 3k to the burst of two sub assaults is enormous.

I agree with @Thogard about offensive vs defensive mobility.

Fake Remedy

Probably 4 fresh new level 10's characters would give you the best optimised group chance of getting into battlegrounds.

Thogard

Adenoma wrote: »

I think there’s a lot of value in being able to stack beetles for solid offensive burst. Sure, the damage will be mediocre, but even adding 3k to the burst of two sub assaults is enormous.

I agree with @Thogard about offensive vs defensive mobility.

It’s not mediocre. Our magden s beetles sometimes outdmgs mine and he’s in heavy

Adenoma

I was more saying relative to dedicated DPS stamdens. If you’re in two utility sets then you’ll just end up having a tiny bit less damage.

exeeter702

Aznox wrote: »

Is there even enough opposition in BG for a premade meta to appear and evolve ?

It seems a group of 4 skilled individuals using voice com and any composition with the basics covered (healing, CC, burst) would already be above 80% winrate.

Are fights between such premades frequent enough to warrant adaptation, trial-and-error, etc.. ?

Precisely this. Threads like this are fun but ultimately pointless. If there was a 2 team bg format where premade competition was relevant then maybe.

Morgul667

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I can’t find a build with 5k weapon damage and enough sustain and defense

Cant really find a sweet spot with my stamsorc since the update, still need to work on it ^^

del9

Morgul667 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I can’t find a build with 5k weapon damage and enough sustain and defense

Cant really find a sweet spot with my stamsorc since the update, still need to work on it ^^

@Lexxypwns if WD is your only concern: if you are hard backbarring S+B: 5x CA back, 5x Auto nirn maul front. 3x gold! Agility, 1 kena. Should be more than enough effective WD. Can also swap the auto to agility weapons depending on setup.

@Morgul667 dark deal your life away bru. If you are having trouble witth mag, You can also have plenty of dmg in your build and still run shacklebreaker. Even in no CP you’ll have DDs for days and still have streaks available. Sustain is slightly harder this patch - kiting is harder due to swift jewels. Shuffle is also very punishing on sustain... and is not necesary on stamsorc med.

Lichbourne90

Fought a group on xbox yesterday that was 2 zookeeper sorcs, a stamblade, and a healer. All i got to say is WOW! I'd rather fight @Lexxypwns comp lol

Thogard

Lichbourne90 wrote: »

Fought a group on xbox yesterday that was 2 zookeeper sorcs, a stamblade, and a healer. All i got to say is WOW! I'd rather fight @Lexxypwns comp lol

An actual Stam group would destroy that comp though.

Lexxypwns

Thogard wrote: »

Lichbourne90 wrote: »

Fought a group on xbox yesterday that was 2 zookeeper sorcs, a stamblade, and a healer. All i got to say is WOW! I'd rather fight @Lexxypwns comp lol

An actual Stam group would destroy that comp though.

Big ulti dump and it’s GG, but you do have to be smart and engage after they engage the opponents. Running right into that is gonna hurt otherwise.