Why is ferocious leap hitting so hard in cp campaign?

Pchela

Akinos wrote: »

So, I believe I'm the MagDK the OP is referring too lol. He tried to Xv1 me several times earlier this morning, before he made this thread. I'll just say I was on fire with my new build and was killing people left and right.
Even though I have hit some people for 12.5k non crit leap, but I'm pretty sure the leap he's talking about was a crit.
Check this screenshot:
RIght click and view image to see the full size.

no mutagen is going to save someone from that

Akinos

NBrookus wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

So, I believe I'm the MagDK the OP is referring too lol. He tried to Xv1 me several times earlier this morning, before he made this thread. I'll just say I was on fire with my new build and was killing people left and right.
Even though I have hit some people for 12.5k non crit leap, but I'm pretty sure the leap he's talking about was a crit.
Check this screenshot:
RIght click and view image to see the full size.

I thought a non crit 12.5 was to much ... My stam leap which delves 21k atm hits for about 8 to 9k non crit... like I said I use DB at the moment it delves for 15k with 14k short duration dot and hits vamps 20% harder... ... I also run low crit because I'm in heavy ..
Glad you had something to clear this up abit...

Not empowered. I hit a 21k empowered once, but was a low CP target.

That build was 100% around setting up a high burst; judging from @Akinos' CLS it may be the same build, which should be stronger this patch than last.

My highest was 23k leap on a low cp target too I think. That was in full bomber burst gear though, which I haven't run since before the update. Some people are more squishy then they think they are.

Akinos

gabormezo wrote: »

Hey, @Akinos! Could you share with us the details of your build, please?

Maybe, once I fully optimize it.

Hektik_V

Lord Michael Cullen is that you?

Highscore_Unlimited

My Magicka DK in pvp has a tooltip of 22.5K - Add vampirism to that and my shadow mundus = GG. There are many ultimates that technically can hit harder and I am also specced for balance and defence. Just sheading some light on the damage that can be produced.

PureEnvelope35

LegacyDM wrote: »

So I've been in non cp campaign since it was renamed from azura to sorta sil. I really like non cp because it feels more balanced. Unfortunatly, the lack of population sucks now and it's just a DC nightcap pvp door Zerg fest. I went back to vivec and either I forgot how bad the burst is or it's gotten worse.

I'm being bursted down from half health with 24k health. Sorcs and dks seem to be the biggest offenders. Sorcs with 8k crit curses, frags, and mages wrath is crazy burst if your caught off guard. However, One thing I noticed was sword and board dks are hitting me with 12.5k non crit ferocious leaps. Huh? Is this over performing? I've got 830 cps and invested 11% in magicka and physical reductions. I am wearing gold light armor but I don't know of any ults that hit that hard in 1 shot. Incap 8k crit. Crescent sweep 8k crit. Bat swarm around 6k. Eye of flame easy dot to avoid. What is making ferocious leap hit do damn hard? Also with the change to burning talons it's hitting vamps for 2.1k+ also riposte mages tree is hitting for 3k+. Why are such simple skills hitting for so much?

Zos hasn't balanced anything other than procs. Although I got hit with a 6k validreth today. So that's debatable. So at least in cp, burst is still off the chart, If I want to survive with 24k health I have to start spamming my healing ward at half health. Insane.

Quite a few mag DKs started using light armor that could contribute to the large damage, otherwise they could be using sets that add a lot of damage such as Clever Alchemist or Shacklebreaker. For survivability you can always use 2 heavy if your build can fit it on, every bit helps with your survivability, another thing could also be adding more impen on your build if possible.

Aeolwind

CyrusArya wrote: »

@HiImRex

Your points would have been valid two years ago. But at this point, the game has been completely balanced around the concept of CPs.

This is absolutely true. But the key concept is that CP are balanced around max CP characters. The power disparity between 300 and 600 isn't really addressed. This is where they no-cp campaign is useful.

If you have Max CP against someone with max CP the playing field is equal. But if you roll into the CP campaign with only 300 or so CP you get rolled fairly significantly. So playing in the no CP campaigns evens the playing field a bit. I was utterly ineffective in the CP campaign; the CP exasperated the skill difference to a significant degree. Playing no CP campaign however gave me a chance to gain the little AP I needed for Barrier and Warhorn and such.

OdinForge

Aeolwind wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

@HiImRex

Your points would have been valid two years ago. But at this point, the game has been completely balanced around the concept of CPs.

This is absolutely true. But the key concept is that CP are balanced around max CP characters. The power disparity between 300 and 600 isn't really addressed. This is where they no-cp campaign is useful.

If you have Max CP against someone with max CP the playing field is equal. But if you roll into the CP campaign with only 300 or so CP you get rolled fairly significantly. So playing in the no CP campaigns evens the playing field a bit. I was utterly ineffective in the CP campaign; the CP exasperated the skill difference to a significant degree. Playing no CP campaign however gave me a chance to gain the little AP I needed for Barrier and Warhorn and such.

Cp is more heavily frontloaded now, so while advantages are sure to be had between max and low cp it's not as drastic. Still no cp is a great place for new players and/or players with low cp, which is probably why there is an overwhelming amount of new players there compared to cp. If you badly wipe a group of pugs in cp, they tend to not return to the same place. Unlike in no cp where groups of pugs will funnel into a death hole for hours, because they don't know any better.

Derra

HiImRex wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

How you can type that you have trouble understanding that the game has been balanced with CP in mind is mind-boggling. We get it, you prefer no CP PvP, but statements like that just not true at all.

I'm responding to the idea that the entire game classes etc have been designed and balanced around CP. I guess a lot happened to this game that I don't know but just looking at the game mechanics as is now nothing really requires CP to make sense. Dodge roll fatigue makes sense in non CP, it's a sensible mechanic. Sustain also makes sense in no CP as well as the game is currently designed even after Morrowind.

About the ONLY thing that I can see as being exclusively in the game for CP that breaks non CP a bit is cost poisons.

what I've seen personally is that ZOS has continuously tried to apply fixes to the problems created by CP. That's not exactly designing the class skills and combat around CP, that's identifying the problems that occur with CP and trying to mitigate it.

Again the idea I'm responding to is game was designed/adjusted/balanced for CP, implying that non CP is a senseless place of combat mechanics that don't balance or play well. Absolutely false and nothing ZOS has done other than cost poisons really has this effect.

As for CP doing a lot more than what I described... what else does it do currently other than what I described? It literally is split into DMG+ and DMG mitigation plus some passives to make some things cheaper or more efficient. There are some wonky tree bonuses like the block 3 spells to auto crit, unchained, etc but that's about it isn't it. I described it pretty much perfectly as it currently stands.

Prettymuch every mechanic that got changed or added after CPs got introduced has been (re)balanced with CP in mind.

That includes jewelry enchantments, almost every skill, battlespirit (big one), potions, some racial passives and every piece of gear aswell as the bonuses on those added to the game since (and including) imperial city (the first DLC).

Also CP provide passive stats that got removed from characters when CP got introduced (crit, costreduction).

I think you have to search for quite some time to find pieces of the game that have not undergone changes since the introduction of CP.
Saying that the game (by now) isn´t in almost it´s entirety balanced around CP is imo quite frankly said - nonsense.

Durham

So what about a 20-27k ult that you cant block.. it can used with gap closing while using it... I see this ULT. stacking and destroying 100s of players a night...

Leap =

NBrookus wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

So, I believe I'm the MagDK the OP is referring too lol. He tried to Xv1 me several times earlier this morning, before he made this thread. I'll just say I was on fire with my new build and was killing people left and right.
Even though I have hit some people for 12.5k non crit leap, but I'm pretty sure the leap he's talking about was a crit.
Check this screenshot:
RIght click and view image to see the full size.

I thought a non crit 12.5 was to much ... My stam leap which delves 21k atm hits for about 8 to 9k non crit... like I said I use DB at the moment it delves for 15k with 14k short duration dot and hits vamps 20% harder... ... I also run low crit because I'm in heavy ..
Glad you had something to clear this up abit...

Not empowered. I hit a 21k empowered once, but was a low CP target.

That build was 100% around setting up a high burst; judging from @Akinos' CLS it may be the same build, which should be stronger this patch than last.

My point is that not the norm...

Had to be wearing no armor and no cp and a vamp also that would not the norm at all ...

A 21k hit is on the fringe . thats a 42k leap with crit... to pull that off your leap would have to delve for 30k+... Most magicka DK that see run no where near that firepower... that would be a straight up light armor maybe alchemist style build .. I know you could not hit my build that hard with it......It would have to be someone that is very new with no crit resist... no CP mitigation... little armor


Most people in Cyrodil should have at least 20% resist to crit... I run closer to 34%
I would also hope they use CP mitigation. This would vary... I do a ton of CP mitigation..
Also most are going to have 25% spell mitigation.. I have 48% ..

The hardest I have been hit with a magicka based leap is around 10.5k .. most of the time I block them totally or they hit me for around 6 to 8k unblocked..

I just do not think they are OP... It's an excellent option in pvp but that's about it...

LegacyDM

Akinos wrote: »

So, I believe I'm the MagDK the OP is referring too lol. He tried to Xv1 me several times earlier this morning, before he made this thread. I'll just say I was on fire with my new build and was killing people left and right.
Even though I have hit some people for 12.5k non crit leap, but I'm pretty sure the leap he's talking about was a crit.
Check this screenshot:
RIght click and view image to see the full size.

Actually no. The thought crossed my mind but your hit was a crit. Even though I have 3k crit resistance with full impen and 50 points in crit resist tree, 12k crit is impressive. However, I can live with that.

PS don't flatter yourself. Why don't you finish the story and tell everyone what happened next? I'll just say this, I didn't die as the picture would suggest... I may or may not have fought you several times I don't remember. Nothing memorable about fighting you other than the 12k crit leap which I wasn't referring to in my OP.

LegacyDM

gabormezo wrote: »

Well, that's basically DKs' execute if timed right. If ZOS balances that (aka nerfs to the ground) then whats left for us? 8K tooltip Whip that barely do 2.5K on sorcs' shield in CP camps? Or dots that immediately gets dispelled by extended rituals? I really like DK, and I believe it is a fairly balanced class that could be very powerful in a hands of a skillful player. But powerful leaps is the part of that balance. I always wear Impregnable light armor in PVP for protection against crit damage. That allows me to use traits other than impen so that basically gives me a somewhat free second 5th piece effect for this set.

Wasn't a crit. Although I have 3k crit resist impen, 50 points in crit mitigation, and was on alt dunmer character with reduce fire damage.

Joy_Division

HiImRex wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

How you can type that you have trouble understanding that the game has been balanced with CP in mind is mind-boggling. We get it, you prefer no CP PvP, but statements like that just not true at all.

I'm responding to the idea that the entire game classes etc have been designed and balanced around CP. I guess a lot happened to this game that I don't know but just looking at the game mechanics as is now nothing really requires CP to make sense. Dodge roll fatigue makes sense in non CP, it's a sensible mechanic. Sustain also makes sense in no CP as well as the game is currently designed even after Morrowind.

About the ONLY thing that I can see as being exclusively in the game for CP that breaks non CP a bit is cost poisons.

what I've seen personally is that ZOS has continuously tried to apply fixes to the problems created by CP. That's not exactly designing the class skills and combat around CP, that's identifying the problems that occur with CP and trying to mitigate it.

Again the idea I'm responding to is game was designed/adjusted/balanced for CP, implying that non CP is a senseless place of combat mechanics that don't balance or play well. Absolutely false and nothing ZOS has done other than cost poisons really has this effect.

As for CP doing a lot more than what I described... what else does it do currently other than what I described? It literally is split into DMG+ and DMG mitigation plus some passives to make some things cheaper or more efficient. There are some wonky tree bonuses like the block 3 spells to auto crit, unchained, etc but that's about it isn't it. I described it pretty much perfectly as it currently stands.

You're still missing the mark..

The abilities and powers that were once part of our classes have largely been taken away, gone to fuel the Champion System, generic major/minor buffs, and gear. The difference was a Templar could do at Launch, and also 1.5 pre-CP for that matter, to what is can't do now is staggering (not to mention frustrating).

ZoS may label it as "streamlining" or claim to be adjusting it so it's "in-line" with the new mechanics in that game shaped by the CP changes, but however you slice it, there's a lot of power and genuinely distinctive class toolkits are no longer there because of the direction the game gone since 1.6 when CP was implemented.

What CP is doing is returning a lot of these mechanics. If you think it's just some % damage and % mitigation, then you are just showing a lack of understanding of what ZoS did during the 1.6 patch. Just about every number generated in the game in combat, from dodge costs, to crit rating, ability costs, resources returned from heavy attack, has been negatively adjusted (that is nerfed or scaled unfavorably to the player) on the assumption that we'd eventually get all that back by advancing in the champion system. Before the CP system, I could doge roll twice on a magicka build and not be out of stamina. Now because that dodge costs are (noticeably) relatively higher, I need to either to get those CP points or wear specific gear like Shacklbreaker and use tri-pots to do what I once could in 1.5.

Cost Poisons is a very big break for non-CP, enough for me to log out of Battlegrounds when spammed by them. Oblivion enchants, the new infused weapon trait, proc sets (still, have fun with Selene and Skoria - balanced with CP in mind by the way in no CP), siege, etc. all over-perform greatly in no CP. On top of this, blocking is way too prohibitively expensive - again, changed brought about by CP that is not an issue in CP - so is dodge roll for non stam builds (who have a much lower stam pool and almost makes wearing a single set, Shacklebreaker, a necessity, and resource bottlenecks that dont hurt some classes (sorcs) as much as others (DKs), make no CP mechanics problems go beyond cost poisons. I thought no CP before Morrowind was decent, but that patch was aimed at reigning in CP and went so far beyond that and wound up nerfing too much stuff that was not a problem in Azura's.

So much has been changed from the game what we have now would be in many ways unrecognizable to someone who quit before the CP was implemented and came back now. If by just getting rid of CP would just get rid of the % power amps and exclusive CP band-aid fixes as you claim and we'd have something akin to 1.5, then I would absolutely promise you that Sotha Sil would be pop-locked and the DC zerg guild dominating the campaign would be swept aside like an annoying gnat.

I and many many other players who have been begging ZoS for more than two years to return PvP to the elements that worked so well in 1.5 would flock to Sotha Sil if the campaign and no CP worked as you claim.

LegacyDM

Screenshot_20170815_230600 by , on Flickr

Ok. So this was on my alt dunmer. look at the combat log. 12673 non crit leap. I have gold gear, 3k crit resist, 11.5% damage mitigation in CP skills, and dunmer fire resist (which isn't all that much). Sure, there are things I probably could have done. I was just wondering if this was normal for CP campaign. I haven't played since trueflame. This to me seems as if it is over performing even for a vamp. I can see a 12k crit but this I haven't seen before. I don't think there is any other ult that can hit this hard. Even as a vamp DBOS doesn't hit that hard. But if the forum expert tell me this is fine I'll defer to their judgement.

jaws343

I personally like to hit a player with weakness to elements before a fight and again before hitting with my Ferocious Leap. It really lets me hit much harder with my magDK.

Ghostbane

Flickr is still alive, wtf.

ak_pvp

Joy_Division wrote: »

HiImRex wrote: »

What... all cp does is add damage, cancel it out with damage mitigation, and then make everything else you do cost less or do more.

...

I'm having trouble understanding the statement that the game has been balanced with cp in mind. Seems to me cp was thrown in on top with no balancing adjustments to mitigate or balance the added power & mechanics and then a couple bandaids thrown over to fix the huge imbalances that occurred.

It actually does a lot more than that.

The CP system took a lot of mechanics from the base game that was accessible to players, stuff from resource return on heavy attacks, crit, cost reductions, so many things, etc., and locked it behind an end-game progression system as a carrot to keep us logging in every day just so we can get back what was stolen from us.

Then ZoS, in it's failure to comprehend how removing soft caps coupled with the speed players grinded CPs, quickly recognized that PvP was full of one-shots, instant-heals, perma-blockers, and infinite dodge rollers so they implemented Battle-Spirit, roll dodge fatigue, removed stam regen from blocking, etc., all of this was implemented in the base game 1000% because of CP and it's in all the game's formats, including non-CP.

Then came Morrowind with the whole "infinite resource, maximum damage" complaints, which were only relevant to max CP gameplay and not no CP PvP, which prompted ZoS to not only make a overhaul in the CP system, but make fundamental chnges to class, armor, and a whole bunch of changes so mechanics would no longer scale to a max stat. CP has prompted ZoS to make wholesale changes to mechanics (read nerfs) that have nothing to do with CP, which is why I want them to do away with the ill thought out CP system altogether.

How you can type that you have trouble understanding that the game has been balanced with CP in mind is mind-boggling. We get it, you prefer no CP PvP, but statements like that just not true at all.

This, CP as a whole is a timebomb. Having raw stats just means the more CP you get, the more imbalanced things will be. They have to keep reducing things to stop the gap widening. Such as the named examples, this means CP affects noCP too.

I always thought CP should be more of the 10/30/75/120 perks. Invest into a certain tree and you can alter your playstyle. Or maybe even new skills. These changes would increase skillcap rather than just stacking stats until the tower topples.

Gorrest

Since every is now posting their leap damage, I may as well. This is a not a full burst setup(No CA, ect). IE no things to proc in order to set this up. This was a non-empowered leap. I believe this was a CP 440 or something. Keep in mind that I have a 10.5k Whip tooltip with 16.5k Pen.




Leap is a very hard skill to balance, mainly because we are talking about Magicka DK. A Class that if buffed to much will be overpowered really easy, but at the same time must not be nerfed to hard to remain viable. This is the case with Leap. I would say it overpowered Ult in terms of damage, but not much else. To nerf this skill then in order for Magicka DKs to remain viable they would have to buff up tankiness in order to have a chance of surviving long enough to kill people.

-My 2 cents

NBrookus

Durham wrote: »

So what about a 20-27k ult that you cant block.. it can used with gap closing while using it... I see this ULT. stacking and destroying 100s of players a night...

Leap =

NBrookus wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

So, I believe I'm the MagDK the OP is referring too lol. He tried to Xv1 me several times earlier this morning, before he made this thread. I'll just say I was on fire with my new build and was killing people left and right.
Even though I have hit some people for 12.5k non crit leap, but I'm pretty sure the leap he's talking about was a crit.
Check this screenshot:
RIght click and view image to see the full size.

I thought a non crit 12.5 was to much ... My stam leap which delves 21k atm hits for about 8 to 9k non crit... like I said I use DB at the moment it delves for 15k with 14k short duration dot and hits vamps 20% harder... ... I also run low crit because I'm in heavy ..
Glad you had something to clear this up abit...

Not empowered. I hit a 21k empowered once, but was a low CP target.

That build was 100% around setting up a high burst; judging from @Akinos' CLS it may be the same build, which should be stronger this patch than last.

My point is that not the norm...

Had to be wearing no armor and no cp and a vamp also that would not the norm at all ...

A 21k hit is on the fringe . thats a 42k leap with crit... to pull that off your leap would have to delve for 30k+... Most magicka DK that see run no where near that firepower... that would be a straight up light armor maybe alchemist style build .. I know you could not hit my build that hard with it......It would have to be someone that is very new with no crit resist... no CP mitigation... little armor


Most people in Cyrodil should have at least 20% resist to crit... I run closer to 34%
I would also hope they use CP mitigation. This would vary... I do a ton of CP mitigation..
Also most are going to have 25% spell mitigation.. I have 48% ..

The hardest I have been hit with a magicka based leap is around 10.5k .. most of the time I block them totally or they hit me for around 6 to 8k unblocked..

I just do not think they are OP... It's an excellent option in pvp but that's about it...

On this build 21k was exceptional, but 13-15k crit leaps were not even against max CP players when I buffed and timed it properly. You are quite a bit tankier than most players out there.

Problem is the build was squishy AF with relatively low sustain on top, hence why I abandoned it open world. With the heavy attack nerf, it's hard to play a mDK as anything other than tank or tankyish... but that's another topic altogether.

Cathexis

It doesn't help that its been made undodgeable.

I once dodge rolled completely out of the way and got pulled back into it and tossed of a wall the other direction.

Cathexis

Waffennacht wrote: »

Next time I see someone post a, "No CP is preferred by the majority" post, I expect every single one of you guys on this thread to actually post, "no it's not"

Always so quiet on their threads and so vocal on these

Honestl Id play no cp of there was a pop. Mainly people play cp I think honestly because its ezmoad for tanks atm.

Akinos

LegacyDM wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

So, I believe I'm the MagDK the OP is referring too lol. He tried to Xv1 me several times earlier this morning, before he made this thread. I'll just say I was on fire with my new build and was killing people left and right.
Even though I have hit some people for 12.5k non crit leap, but I'm pretty sure the leap he's talking about was a crit.
Check this screenshot:
RIght click and view image to see the full size.

Actually no. The thought crossed my mind but your hit was a crit. Even though I have 3k crit resistance with full impen and 50 points in crit resist tree, 12k crit is impressive. However, I can live with that.

PS don't flatter yourself. Why don't you finish the story and tell everyone what happened next? I'll just say this, I didn't die as the picture would suggest... I may or may not have fought you several times I don't remember. Nothing memorable about fighting you other than the 12k crit leap which I wasn't referring to in my OP.

Finish the story? You mean tell everybody that you zerged me down in at least 3 different fights and almost died every time as in the screenshot? Actually I think i did kill you at least once during our encounters, and I did manage to get kills every time I was zerged down too.

Btw that leap on you wasn't empowered either, but let me ask you this, how many points do you have in ironclad? Because your crit resist doesn't mean a thing if you don't have enough points into ironclad/elemental expert to back that crit resist.

LegacyDM

Akinos wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

So, I believe I'm the MagDK the OP is referring too lol. He tried to Xv1 me several times earlier this morning, before he made this thread. I'll just say I was on fire with my new build and was killing people left and right.
Even though I have hit some people for 12.5k non crit leap, but I'm pretty sure the leap he's talking about was a crit.
Check this screenshot:
RIght click and view image to see the full size.

Actually no. The thought crossed my mind but your hit was a crit. Even though I have 3k crit resistance with full impen and 50 points in crit resist tree, 12k crit is impressive. However, I can live with that.

PS don't flatter yourself. Why don't you finish the story and tell everyone what happened next? I'll just say this, I didn't die as the picture would suggest... I may or may not have fought you several times I don't remember. Nothing memorable about fighting you other than the 12k crit leap which I wasn't referring to in my OP.

Finish the story? You mean tell everybody that you zerged me down in at least 3 different fights and almost died every time as in the screenshot? Actually I think i did kill you at least once during our encounters, and I did manage to get kills every time I was zerged down too.

Btw that leap on you wasn't empowered either, but let me ask you this, how many points do you have in ironclad? Because your crit resist doesn't mean a thing if you don't have enough points into ironclad/elemental expert to back that crit resist.

Look man I got no beef with you. I just came here asking questions and you jump in with your ego. If you must know I'm near crit max of 3300 at 3k with full impen gear. 11.5% crit reduction and wearing wizard's riposte. I've got 11% in magicka and physical reduction. I've got 19% in bastion. If I suspected you would hit me that hard with a leap I would have cast healing ward. I don't need a lesson on crit mitigation. My post has nothing to do with crit issues. I'm asking why ferocious leap is hitting for 12.5k on a non crit. Compared to all other ults That is over performing in my opinion.

I don't think you have killed me and you came close but the fact remains you didn't. If it wasn't for me the potatoes you were fighting wouldn't have killed you and likely you would have killed them. Good for you. You can 1vx potatoes.

Akinos

LegacyDM wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

So, I believe I'm the MagDK the OP is referring too lol. He tried to Xv1 me several times earlier this morning, before he made this thread. I'll just say I was on fire with my new build and was killing people left and right.
Even though I have hit some people for 12.5k non crit leap, but I'm pretty sure the leap he's talking about was a crit.
Check this screenshot:
RIght click and view image to see the full size.

Actually no. The thought crossed my mind but your hit was a crit. Even though I have 3k crit resistance with full impen and 50 points in crit resist tree, 12k crit is impressive. However, I can live with that.

PS don't flatter yourself. Why don't you finish the story and tell everyone what happened next? I'll just say this, I didn't die as the picture would suggest... I may or may not have fought you several times I don't remember. Nothing memorable about fighting you other than the 12k crit leap which I wasn't referring to in my OP.

Finish the story? You mean tell everybody that you zerged me down in at least 3 different fights and almost died every time as in the screenshot? Actually I think i did kill you at least once during our encounters, and I did manage to get kills every time I was zerged down too.

Btw that leap on you wasn't empowered either, but let me ask you this, how many points do you have in ironclad? Because your crit resist doesn't mean a thing if you don't have enough points into ironclad/elemental expert to back that crit resist.

Look man I got no beef with you. I just came here asking questions and you jump in with your ego. If you must know I'm near crit max of 3300 at 3k with full impen gear. 11.5% crit reduction and wearing wizard's riposte. I've got 11% in magicka and physical reduction. I've got 19% in bastion. If I suspected you would hit me that hard with a leap I would have cast healing ward. I don't need a lesson on crit mitigation. My post has nothing to do with crit issues. I'm asking why ferocious leap is hitting for 12.5k on a non crit. Compared to all other ults That is over performing in my opinion.

Leap is a direct damage skill, and judging by your post and you ignoring my question, you probably don't have any points in ironclad, which is why leap hits you so hard.
I got no beef with you either but, you should really take a look at your own build before you go making threads claiming that leap is OP.

BTW bastion is a worthless passive.

Xvorg

HiImRex wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

@CyrusArya umm what? Calling total BS on the bolded.

Ok my post might have been a bit of an exaggeration. There are good and bad, geared and ungeared players on both servers. But NO CP is not the harbinger of balance as those who play there like to push. Consistently, I hear that from people who cannot be competitive on the normal servers. And this post is a testament to that. The two have entirely different dynamics, and that's fine. But constantly screeching that champion points are imbalanced is an insult to all the effort that has been put into (successfully) balancing it all out.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. But don't stand in the kiddie pool and then continue to cry about how hot the kitchen is.

CP campaigns are objectively easier. Whatever you accomplish on CP campaigns, it will be a lot harder to accomplish equivalent feats in non CP. And additionally, CP takes what already is often an RNG rock paper scissors encounter to their extremes.
.

Xvorg

NBrookus wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

So, I believe I'm the MagDK the OP is referring too lol. He tried to Xv1 me several times earlier this morning, before he made this thread. I'll just say I was on fire with my new build and was killing people left and right.
Even though I have hit some people for 12.5k non crit leap, but I'm pretty sure the leap he's talking about was a crit.
Check this screenshot:
RIght click and view image to see the full size.

I thought a non crit 12.5 was to much ... My stam leap which delves 21k atm hits for about 8 to 9k non crit... like I said I use DB at the moment it delves for 15k with 14k short duration dot and hits vamps 20% harder... ... I also run low crit because I'm in heavy ..
Glad you had something to clear this up abit...

Not empowered. I hit a 21k empowered once, but was a low CP target.

That build was 100% around setting up a high burst; judging from @Akinos' CLS it may be the same build, which should be stronger this patch than last.

I got a 12k crit too not so long ago. In fact it is possible using a combination of available mechanics:

1- Silks of the sun + lets say Julianos
2- Major sorc
3- Petrify/talons/shock reach/Frost Reach
4- Whip
5- Exploiter

The trick is to use talons + whip (to set enemy off balance, just once) then leap

Xvorg

LegacyDM wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

So, I believe I'm the MagDK the OP is referring too lol. He tried to Xv1 me several times earlier this morning, before he made this thread. I'll just say I was on fire with my new build and was killing people left and right.
Even though I have hit some people for 12.5k non crit leap, but I'm pretty sure the leap he's talking about was a crit.
Check this screenshot:
RIght click and view image to see the full size.

Actually no. The thought crossed my mind but your hit was a crit. Even though I have 3k crit resistance with full impen and 50 points in crit resist tree, 12k crit is impressive. However, I can live with that.

PS don't flatter yourself. Why don't you finish the story and tell everyone what happened next? I'll just say this, I didn't die as the picture would suggest... I may or may not have fought you several times I don't remember. Nothing memorable about fighting you other than the 12k crit leap which I wasn't referring to in my OP.

Finish the story? You mean tell everybody that you zerged me down in at least 3 different fights and almost died every time as in the screenshot? Actually I think i did kill you at least once during our encounters, and I did manage to get kills every time I was zerged down too.

Btw that leap on you wasn't empowered either, but let me ask you this, how many points do you have in ironclad? Because your crit resist doesn't mean a thing if you don't have enough points into ironclad/elemental expert to back that crit resist.

Look man I got no beef with you. I just came here asking questions and you jump in with your ego. If you must know I'm near crit max of 3300 at 3k with full impen gear. 11.5% crit reduction and wearing wizard's riposte. I've got 11% in magicka and physical reduction. I've got 19% in bastion. If I suspected you would hit me that hard with a leap I would have cast healing ward. I don't need a lesson on crit mitigation. My post has nothing to do with crit issues. I'm asking why ferocious leap is hitting for 12.5k on a non crit. Compared to all other ults That is over performing in my opinion.

I don't think you have killed me and you came close but the fact remains you didn't. If it wasn't for me the potatoes you were fighting wouldn't have killed you and likely you would have killed them. Good for you. You can 1vx potatoes.

@LegacyDM

Petrify --> flame lash --> Off Balance 5 secs (10% extra dmg through exploiter)

On a 20k leap tool tip = 10k regular dmg

WiR = + 6% extra dmg on flame AoE skills

11.6K

Maybe @Akinos was using slimecraw, that gives an extra 8% dmg

Total = 12.4 K

But the trick was the exploiter passive, look



4 mississippies between he set you off balance and leap.

Lokey0024

I like 10k overload spam personally.

LegacyDM

Xvorg wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

So, I believe I'm the MagDK the OP is referring too lol. He tried to Xv1 me several times earlier this morning, before he made this thread. I'll just say I was on fire with my new build and was killing people left and right.
Even though I have hit some people for 12.5k non crit leap, but I'm pretty sure the leap he's talking about was a crit.
Check this screenshot:
RIght click and view image to see the full size.

Actually no. The thought crossed my mind but your hit was a crit. Even though I have 3k crit resistance with full impen and 50 points in crit resist tree, 12k crit is impressive. However, I can live with that.

PS don't flatter yourself. Why don't you finish the story and tell everyone what happened next? I'll just say this, I didn't die as the picture would suggest... I may or may not have fought you several times I don't remember. Nothing memorable about fighting you other than the 12k crit leap which I wasn't referring to in my OP.

Finish the story? You mean tell everybody that you zerged me down in at least 3 different fights and almost died every time as in the screenshot? Actually I think i did kill you at least once during our encounters, and I did manage to get kills every time I was zerged down too.

Btw that leap on you wasn't empowered either, but let me ask you this, how many points do you have in ironclad? Because your crit resist doesn't mean a thing if you don't have enough points into ironclad/elemental expert to back that crit resist.

Look man I got no beef with you. I just came here asking questions and you jump in with your ego. If you must know I'm near crit max of 3300 at 3k with full impen gear. 11.5% crit reduction and wearing wizard's riposte. I've got 11% in magicka and physical reduction. I've got 19% in bastion. If I suspected you would hit me that hard with a leap I would have cast healing ward. I don't need a lesson on crit mitigation. My post has nothing to do with crit issues. I'm asking why ferocious leap is hitting for 12.5k on a non crit. Compared to all other ults That is over performing in my opinion.

I don't think you have killed me and you came close but the fact remains you didn't. If it wasn't for me the potatoes you were fighting wouldn't have killed you and likely you would have killed them. Good for you. You can 1vx potatoes.

@LegacyDM

Petrify --> flame lash --> Off Balance 5 secs (10% extra dmg through exploiter)

On a 20k leap tool tip = 10k regular dmg

WiR = + 6% extra dmg on flame AoE skills

11.6K

Maybe @Akinos was using slimecraw, that gives an extra 8% dmg

Total = 12.4 K

But the trick was the exploiter passive, look



4 mississippies between he set you off balance and leap.

1. It wasn't akinos. Akinos hit me with A 12k crit leap, which makes sense. This guy hit me with a 12.5 non crit leap.

2. Your calculations aren't taking into effect my mitigations, damage reductions, and spell resistances.

WhiteMage

As someone who largely prefers no CP and only rarely visits CP campaigns, one of the most striking things I noticed is ults would tend to hit roughly twice that of what I would expect in no CP. Dawnbreakers that I expected to be roughly 4k on the initial hit from in no CP would strike for 8k in CP. 6k leaps could hit as high as 12k, but those were usually a mixed bag. In comparison, regular attacks weren't noticably different as for their damage, but pressure felt far less effective at killing things than burst. Adding more and more minor but impactful differences and it's just not my cup of tea.