Why is it that only people who have never played magsorc say that magsorc is op?

NoFlash

I main a templar, but i play magsorc from time to time and its way stronger imo. this is with just purple 5 julianos 3 willpower and crap purple weapons with infernal guardian 2 pc. they are pretty OP, but its not the end of the world OP. Still a very fun toon tho.

WuffyCerulei

Magsorcs have a lot of passives and skills that just make them better DPS for newer or potatoey (like myself) players. The only downfall is that they don't come with a class spammable. Magsorcs also have a strong shield that scales off max magicka, and if stacked with Annulment, they're harder to kill.

Biro123

I've never played DK - and I think they are op.

I guess its largely down to playing said class to understand its weaknesses.

Xeniph

Magsorcs have been OP ever since 1.3, when they changed how shield refreshing worked.

At release you could cast a shield but it would only refresh the duration, not the HP until it dropped. Once the change that allowed all shields to refreshed in duration and HP was implemented the game changed.

I personally find it incredibly tedious to be constantly refreshing shields. Though without them a magsorc is free AP, but with them a good player can do amazing things. However I still play mine from time to time.

I don't think it can even be argued that a class that can have near infinite effective health 20kish more at a time and immunity to crits all while focusing dps/regen stats, is op as hell in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing and enjoys the playstyle.

holosoul

Xeniph wrote: »

near infinite effective health 20kish more at a time and immunity to crits all while focusing dps/regen stats, is op as hell

I thought you said you played sorc?
You realize if you cast 2 shields on your backbar, bar swapping takes 1s each and the shields take 1s each to cast so, by the time you got back to your offense bar the first shield would expire in 2 seconds? That would leave you enough time to cast '1' offensive spell (instant cast only), and then switch back to your backbar to refresh.

Or are you talking about PVE where the shield amount isn't halved? sorcs might be OP in PVE, I don't PVE so I wouldn't know

Edit: not saying sorcs are bad in PVP, just that shield 'stacking' isn't what makes them OP in pvp; I would even say that sorc feels slightly overtuned atm, just not because of shields.

Pallio

They saw a magsorc on YouTube break 40k dps, with perfect rotation, raid buffs and specific BiS gear. They can't so it ain't fair.

Xeniph

holosoul wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

near infinite effective health 20kish more at a time and immunity to crits all while focusing dps/regen stats, is op as hell

I thought you said you played sorc?
You realize if you cast 2 shields on your backbar, bar swapping takes 1s each and the shields take 1s each to cast so, by the time you got back to your offense bar the first shield would expire in 2 seconds? That would leave you enough time to cast '1' offensive spell (instant cast only), and then switch back to your backbar to refresh.

Or are you talking about PVE where the shield amount isn't halved? sorcs might be OP in PVE, I don't PVE so I wouldn't know

Edit: not saying sorcs are bad in PVP, just that shield 'stacking' isn't what makes them OP in pvp; I would even say that sorc feels slightly overtuned atm, just not because of shields.

While I don't think this is the venue for me to teach you how to play Sorc, I did say 20k or more effective health. Meaning your average 18-20k normal health + a single shield. I was being generous as it's usually closer to 30k+ (20kish health and 10k shield) with bars and shields dipping.

*Edit- As a side note, I didn't even mention shield stacking. Just how refreshing is op.

However, this guy can show you what I mean, he's a Pretty good Sorc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2d3L0IobyM

Minalan

Thelon wrote: »

this thread has potential

I don't know, the potato-meter potential is reading pretty high.

Xeniph wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

near infinite effective health 20kish more at a time and immunity to crits all while focusing dps/regen stats, is op as hell

I thought you said you played sorc?
You realize if you cast 2 shields on your backbar, bar swapping takes 1s each and the shields take 1s each to cast so, by the time you got back to your offense bar the first shield would expire in 2 seconds? That would leave you enough time to cast '1' offensive spell (instant cast only), and then switch back to your backbar to refresh.

Or are you talking about PVE where the shield amount isn't halved? sorcs might be OP in PVE, I don't PVE so I wouldn't know

Edit: not saying sorcs are bad in PVP, just that shield 'stacking' isn't what makes them OP in pvp; I would even say that sorc feels slightly overtuned atm, just not because of shields.

While I don't think this is the venue for me to teach you how to play Sorc, I did say 20k or more effective health. Meaning your average 18-20k normal health + a single shield. I was being generous as it's usually closer to 30k+ (20kish health and 10k shield) with bars and shields dipping.

*Edit- As a side note, I didn't even mention shield stacking. Just how refreshing is op.

However, this guy can show you what I mean, he's a Pretty good Sorc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2d3L0IobyM

Refreshing a shield is no worse than healing, major mending, and HOT's on a 35K health 35K/35K resist heavy armor tank. Except that the tank stam guy can perma-block. And do just as much damage.

Shields have no resistances, despite being non-critable. Light armor beneath the shields gives no protection or mitigation against anyone wielding a sharpened weapon. If the sorc isn't wearing 1800+ impen, that 20K health is a one-shot kill. Even with impen? Two shots tops (sa/proc set/ravage health poison/incap)

So shields are refreshable. It's balanced.

Waffennacht

At I think 3/4th (somewhere around there) resistance, a Heal is actually going to prevent more damage (or negate) than a Ward of the same strength.

Then if you consider blocking and/or block casting a heal, then a heal becomes even more powerful (wards do not have any damage reduced by blocking)

SaintHeretic

As a below average stamblade who only started seriously PvPing recently, I can honestly say I haven't had much trouble with magsorcs. Sure if they burst from range while I'm fighting someone else, I drop pretty quick, but when I know they are there or am fighting them directly they aren't too bad. The really good ones usually outlast me with a good mix of shielding and offense, but being new to PvP and still figuring out my burst combos/timing, I fully expect someone who knows their rotations and timing that well to smoke me.

Stamsorcs on the other hand tend to give me major problems no matter what. I'm sure there is some trick to beating them as a nb, but I sure as hell haven't found it yet lol.

edit: should note that I mained a magsorc in PvE for a long time, so recognizing their animations and knowing what's coming helps alot.

Elwendryll

All classes are too OP for someone. In fact, all kinds of builds are doing well for something. But when someone really knows his class and uses it strengths to beat you, sometimes it feels like this skills or this one is too overpowered, or even whitout any counter. And sometimes you run into someone with a similar build to you, and you can't beat him, it feels like this guy plays something overpowered but he wears nearly the same gears, on the same class with nearly the same skills.

Malamar1229

danno8 wrote: »

Can't remember, maybe it was @Teargrants or the long gone @Ezareth, but when IC came out they just stopped playing their magicka Sorcerer because they found it to simply be too OP and easy against other players.

absolutely not why Ez stopped playing...

Malamar1229

Xeniph wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

near infinite effective health 20kish more at a time and immunity to crits all while focusing dps/regen stats, is op as hell

I thought you said you played sorc?
You realize if you cast 2 shields on your backbar, bar swapping takes 1s each and the shields take 1s each to cast so, by the time you got back to your offense bar the first shield would expire in 2 seconds? That would leave you enough time to cast '1' offensive spell (instant cast only), and then switch back to your backbar to refresh.

Or are you talking about PVE where the shield amount isn't halved? sorcs might be OP in PVE, I don't PVE so I wouldn't know

Edit: not saying sorcs are bad in PVP, just that shield 'stacking' isn't what makes them OP in pvp; I would even say that sorc feels slightly overtuned atm, just not because of shields.

While I don't think this is the venue for me to teach you how to play Sorc, I did say 20k or more effective health. Meaning your average 18-20k normal health + a single shield. I was being generous as it's usually closer to 30k+ (20kish health and 10k shield) with bars and shields dipping.

*Edit- As a side note, I didn't even mention shield stacking. Just how refreshing is op.

However, this guy can show you what I mean, he's a Pretty good Sorc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2d3L0IobyM

He dies a lot now since certain things were fixed.

Torbschka

Have played sorc (mag & stam) plus templar (mag & stam) exclusively and "very high lvl". Go YouTube and search for " Torbschka" to get an impression. So, in your words, after showing that im qualified enough to post about sorc balance:

Sorcs are op and easymode as *** right now.

Thanks for your attention

Derra

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

near infinite effective health 20kish more at a time and immunity to crits all while focusing dps/regen stats, is op as hell

I thought you said you played sorc?
You realize if you cast 2 shields on your backbar, bar swapping takes 1s each and the shields take 1s each to cast so, by the time you got back to your offense bar the first shield would expire in 2 seconds? That would leave you enough time to cast '1' offensive spell (instant cast only), and then switch back to your backbar to refresh.

Or are you talking about PVE where the shield amount isn't halved? sorcs might be OP in PVE, I don't PVE so I wouldn't know

Edit: not saying sorcs are bad in PVP, just that shield 'stacking' isn't what makes them OP in pvp; I would even say that sorc feels slightly overtuned atm, just not because of shields.

While I don't think this is the venue for me to teach you how to play Sorc, I did say 20k or more effective health. Meaning your average 18-20k normal health + a single shield. I was being generous as it's usually closer to 30k+ (20kish health and 10k shield) with bars and shields dipping.

*Edit- As a side note, I didn't even mention shield stacking. Just how refreshing is op.

However, this guy can show you what I mean, he's a Pretty good Sorc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2d3L0IobyM

He dies a lot now since certain things were fixed.

Trippleshieldstack + pirate.

That´s 100% whats overperforming about sorc. Take away pirate and harness from that build and see whats left.

Ragnaroek93

I struggle to believe that people really think how mana sorc is worse than this heavy armor builds with 700 stamina regen who use to win fights by stacking damage, don't give a *** about blocking or rolling and just facetank everything with heavy armor, 5k weapondamage and troll king.

Derra wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

near infinite effective health 20kish more at a time and immunity to crits all while focusing dps/regen stats, is op as hell

I thought you said you played sorc?
You realize if you cast 2 shields on your backbar, bar swapping takes 1s each and the shields take 1s each to cast so, by the time you got back to your offense bar the first shield would expire in 2 seconds? That would leave you enough time to cast '1' offensive spell (instant cast only), and then switch back to your backbar to refresh.

Or are you talking about PVE where the shield amount isn't halved? sorcs might be OP in PVE, I don't PVE so I wouldn't know

Edit: not saying sorcs are bad in PVP, just that shield 'stacking' isn't what makes them OP in pvp; I would even say that sorc feels slightly overtuned atm, just not because of shields.

While I don't think this is the venue for me to teach you how to play Sorc, I did say 20k or more effective health. Meaning your average 18-20k normal health + a single shield. I was being generous as it's usually closer to 30k+ (20kish health and 10k shield) with bars and shields dipping.

*Edit- As a side note, I didn't even mention shield stacking. Just how refreshing is op.

However, this guy can show you what I mean, he's a Pretty good Sorc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2d3L0IobyM

He dies a lot now since certain things were fixed.

Trippleshieldstack + pirate.

That´s 100% whats overperforming about sorc. Take away pirate and harness from that build and see whats left.

I agree on the pirate part but I think that it would hurt sorcs very hard if you can't stack both shields anymore. Probably only necrobuilds could handle this. I think the reason why sorcs are so strong right now are because of the sets (Amberplasm, Lich and of course Necropotence).

Ashamray

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I struggle to believe that people really think how mana sorc is worse than this heavy armor builds with 700 stamina regen who use to win fights by stacking damage, don't give a *** about blocking or rolling and just facetank everything with heavy armor, 5k weapondamage and troll king.

Derra wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

near infinite effective health 20kish more at a time and immunity to crits all while focusing dps/regen stats, is op as hell

I thought you said you played sorc?
You realize if you cast 2 shields on your backbar, bar swapping takes 1s each and the shields take 1s each to cast so, by the time you got back to your offense bar the first shield would expire in 2 seconds? That would leave you enough time to cast '1' offensive spell (instant cast only), and then switch back to your backbar to refresh.

Or are you talking about PVE where the shield amount isn't halved? sorcs might be OP in PVE, I don't PVE so I wouldn't know

Edit: not saying sorcs are bad in PVP, just that shield 'stacking' isn't what makes them OP in pvp; I would even say that sorc feels slightly overtuned atm, just not because of shields.

While I don't think this is the venue for me to teach you how to play Sorc, I did say 20k or more effective health. Meaning your average 18-20k normal health + a single shield. I was being generous as it's usually closer to 30k+ (20kish health and 10k shield) with bars and shields dipping.

*Edit- As a side note, I didn't even mention shield stacking. Just how refreshing is op.

However, this guy can show you what I mean, he's a Pretty good Sorc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2d3L0IobyM

He dies a lot now since certain things were fixed.

Trippleshieldstack + pirate.

That´s 100% whats overperforming about sorc. Take away pirate and harness from that build and see whats left.

I agree on the pirate part but I think that it would hurt sorcs very hard if you can't stack both shields anymore. Probably only necrobuilds could handle this. I think the reason why sorcs are so strong right now are because of the sets (Amberplasm, Lich and of course Necropotence).

Derra's suggestion is a bit harsh.
I think stacking should stay but in more expensive way. Sorc's shield is pretty cheap in comparisson with BoL or Dragonblood, for example.
Harness is just stupid because it scales off magicka. If you have 50k magicka or more (I have more on my Nightblade) it restores around 4.5-6k magicka. That's insane endless sustain agaisnt each magic build.

Joy_Division

Sorcerers are not OP.

They just have four mechanics that are trash in PvP.

1. Shield stacking has forever been dumb. Give sorcerers some long term defensive buff to go with the single shield they can cast.
2. Negate is stupid OP. Because the ability to compeltely shut down characters and remove their ultimates is somehow balanced according to ESO's designers.
3. Pirate skeleton set's drawback is largely irrelevant to sorcs.
4. Dark Dealing while full speed moving

Get rid of these trash mechanics and get rid of the equally dumb specific sorc nerfs like Shieldbreaker set and the Whiplash / loss of momentum on Streak.

Minalan

Ashamray wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I struggle to believe that people really think how mana sorc is worse than this heavy armor builds with 700 stamina regen who use to win fights by stacking damage, don't give a *** about blocking or rolling and just facetank everything with heavy armor, 5k weapondamage and troll king.

Derra wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

near infinite effective health 20kish more at a time and immunity to crits all while focusing dps/regen stats, is op as hell

I thought you said you played sorc?
You realize if you cast 2 shields on your backbar, bar swapping takes 1s each and the shields take 1s each to cast so, by the time you got back to your offense bar the first shield would expire in 2 seconds? That would leave you enough time to cast '1' offensive spell (instant cast only), and then switch back to your backbar to refresh.

Or are you talking about PVE where the shield amount isn't halved? sorcs might be OP in PVE, I don't PVE so I wouldn't know

Edit: not saying sorcs are bad in PVP, just that shield 'stacking' isn't what makes them OP in pvp; I would even say that sorc feels slightly overtuned atm, just not because of shields.

While I don't think this is the venue for me to teach you how to play Sorc, I did say 20k or more effective health. Meaning your average 18-20k normal health + a single shield. I was being generous as it's usually closer to 30k+ (20kish health and 10k shield) with bars and shields dipping.

*Edit- As a side note, I didn't even mention shield stacking. Just how refreshing is op.

However, this guy can show you what I mean, he's a Pretty good Sorc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2d3L0IobyM

He dies a lot now since certain things were fixed.

Trippleshieldstack + pirate.

That´s 100% whats overperforming about sorc. Take away pirate and harness from that build and see whats left.

I agree on the pirate part but I think that it would hurt sorcs very hard if you can't stack both shields anymore. Probably only necrobuilds could handle this. I think the reason why sorcs are so strong right now are because of the sets (Amberplasm, Lich and of course Necropotence).

Derra's suggestion is a bit harsh.
I think stacking should stay but in more expensive way. Sorc's shield is pretty cheap in comparisson with BoL or Dragonblood, for example.
Harness is just stupid because it scales off magicka. If you have 50k magicka or more (I have more on my Nightblade) it restores around 4.5-6k magicka. That's insane endless sustain agaisnt each magic build.

Shield stacking is plenty expensive if you're not using the harness morph. Harness returns too many resources when fighting Magicka classes, that's it.

Against stamina classes a shield stack is plenty expensive.

Torbschka wrote: »

Have played sorc (mag & stam) plus templar (mag & stam) exclusively and "very high lvl". Go YouTube and search for " Torbschka" to get an impression. So, in your words, after showing that im qualified enough to post about sorc balance:

Sorcs are op and easymode as *** right now.

Thanks for your attention

This thread has officially gone full

danno8

Malamar1229 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Can't remember, maybe it was @Teargrants or the long gone @Ezareth, but when IC came out they just stopped playing their magicka Sorcerer because they found it to simply be too OP and easy against other players.

absolutely not why Ez stopped playing...

No he got pretty pissed off when ZoS did away with reflectable reflectables. I thought that was the last straw for him. But it was all so long ago, I am probably mixing people up.

HoloYoitsu

@Xeniph throwing out a video of Faso in which he used the Hist Bark exploit, and claiming that as evidence of sorcs being OP doesn't help your argument.

@ all the Potatos saying shield stacking needs to be removed, you guys must be baked in more ways than one. Without shield stacking, sorc cannot heal period, as healing ward will never go off then (mageblades would get screwed too). Either healing ward or sorc as a class would need to be completely redesigned.

Derra

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

@Xeniph throwing out a video of Faso in which he used the Hist Bark exploit, and claiming that as evidence of sorcs being OP doesn't help your argument.

@ all the Potatos saying shield stacking needs to be removed, you guys must be baked in more ways than one. Without shield stacking, sorc cannot heal period, as healing ward will never go off then (mageblades would get screwed too). Either healing ward or sorc as a class would need to be completely redesigned.

I´m specifically always mentioning that only hardened + harness/dampen should not stack.

I´m well aware of the healing ward limitations. While healing ward + one shield is still very good it´s not entirely broken imo (if not coupled with pirate - but this also has to to with pirate on CP being way better than nonCP due to % based dmg reduction calculations etc pp).

Derra

Ashamray wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I struggle to believe that people really think how mana sorc is worse than this heavy armor builds with 700 stamina regen who use to win fights by stacking damage, don't give a *** about blocking or rolling and just facetank everything with heavy armor, 5k weapondamage and troll king.

Derra wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

near infinite effective health 20kish more at a time and immunity to crits all while focusing dps/regen stats, is op as hell

I thought you said you played sorc?
You realize if you cast 2 shields on your backbar, bar swapping takes 1s each and the shields take 1s each to cast so, by the time you got back to your offense bar the first shield would expire in 2 seconds? That would leave you enough time to cast '1' offensive spell (instant cast only), and then switch back to your backbar to refresh.

Or are you talking about PVE where the shield amount isn't halved? sorcs might be OP in PVE, I don't PVE so I wouldn't know

Edit: not saying sorcs are bad in PVP, just that shield 'stacking' isn't what makes them OP in pvp; I would even say that sorc feels slightly overtuned atm, just not because of shields.

While I don't think this is the venue for me to teach you how to play Sorc, I did say 20k or more effective health. Meaning your average 18-20k normal health + a single shield. I was being generous as it's usually closer to 30k+ (20kish health and 10k shield) with bars and shields dipping.

*Edit- As a side note, I didn't even mention shield stacking. Just how refreshing is op.

However, this guy can show you what I mean, he's a Pretty good Sorc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2d3L0IobyM

He dies a lot now since certain things were fixed.

Trippleshieldstack + pirate.

That´s 100% whats overperforming about sorc. Take away pirate and harness from that build and see whats left.

I agree on the pirate part but I think that it would hurt sorcs very hard if you can't stack both shields anymore. Probably only necrobuilds could handle this. I think the reason why sorcs are so strong right now are because of the sets (Amberplasm, Lich and of course Necropotence).

Derra's suggestion is a bit harsh.
I think stacking should stay but in more expensive way. Sorc's shield is pretty cheap in comparisson with BoL or Dragonblood, for example.
Harness is just stupid because it scales off magicka. If you have 50k magicka or more (I have more on my Nightblade) it restores around 4.5-6k magicka. That's insane endless sustain agaisnt each magic build.

I think it´s mainly an adaption of playstyle.

Currently fullHP shieldstacking allows for incredibly slow turret playstyles on sorc (especially with the addition of mines).

Maybe i´m just crazy for refusing to utilize harness into my builds. It somehow works for me. I just can´t facetank in the same way other sorcs can.

Minalan

Derra wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I struggle to believe that people really think how mana sorc is worse than this heavy armor builds with 700 stamina regen who use to win fights by stacking damage, don't give a *** about blocking or rolling and just facetank everything with heavy armor, 5k weapondamage and troll king.

Derra wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

near infinite effective health 20kish more at a time and immunity to crits all while focusing dps/regen stats, is op as hell

I thought you said you played sorc?
You realize if you cast 2 shields on your backbar, bar swapping takes 1s each and the shields take 1s each to cast so, by the time you got back to your offense bar the first shield would expire in 2 seconds? That would leave you enough time to cast '1' offensive spell (instant cast only), and then switch back to your backbar to refresh.

Or are you talking about PVE where the shield amount isn't halved? sorcs might be OP in PVE, I don't PVE so I wouldn't know

Edit: not saying sorcs are bad in PVP, just that shield 'stacking' isn't what makes them OP in pvp; I would even say that sorc feels slightly overtuned atm, just not because of shields.

While I don't think this is the venue for me to teach you how to play Sorc, I did say 20k or more effective health. Meaning your average 18-20k normal health + a single shield. I was being generous as it's usually closer to 30k+ (20kish health and 10k shield) with bars and shields dipping.

*Edit- As a side note, I didn't even mention shield stacking. Just how refreshing is op.

However, this guy can show you what I mean, he's a Pretty good Sorc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2d3L0IobyM

He dies a lot now since certain things were fixed.

Trippleshieldstack + pirate.

That´s 100% whats overperforming about sorc. Take away pirate and harness from that build and see whats left.

I agree on the pirate part but I think that it would hurt sorcs very hard if you can't stack both shields anymore. Probably only necrobuilds could handle this. I think the reason why sorcs are so strong right now are because of the sets (Amberplasm, Lich and of course Necropotence).

Derra's suggestion is a bit harsh.
I think stacking should stay but in more expensive way. Sorc's shield is pretty cheap in comparisson with BoL or Dragonblood, for example.
Harness is just stupid because it scales off magicka. If you have 50k magicka or more (I have more on my Nightblade) it restores around 4.5-6k magicka. That's insane endless sustain agaisnt each magic build.

I think it´s mainly an adaption of playstyle.

Currently fullHP shieldstacking allows for incredibly slow turret playstyles on sorc (especially with the addition of mines).

Maybe i´m just crazy for refusing to utilize harness into my builds. It somehow works for me. I just can´t facetank in the same way other sorcs can.

Spammable gap closers make every fight a face tank.

Harness Magicka return is broken, if that were fixed, I think the cost of double stacking would balance it out. Try it with the Nullify morph and see what I mean.

I can make a one shield build work too, but it requires something akin to 55K max magicka. With out current rate of power creep that's likely to be common in six months time, in which case stacking can probably go then

Derra

Minalan wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I struggle to believe that people really think how mana sorc is worse than this heavy armor builds with 700 stamina regen who use to win fights by stacking damage, don't give a *** about blocking or rolling and just facetank everything with heavy armor, 5k weapondamage and troll king.

Derra wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

near infinite effective health 20kish more at a time and immunity to crits all while focusing dps/regen stats, is op as hell

I thought you said you played sorc?
You realize if you cast 2 shields on your backbar, bar swapping takes 1s each and the shields take 1s each to cast so, by the time you got back to your offense bar the first shield would expire in 2 seconds? That would leave you enough time to cast '1' offensive spell (instant cast only), and then switch back to your backbar to refresh.

Or are you talking about PVE where the shield amount isn't halved? sorcs might be OP in PVE, I don't PVE so I wouldn't know

Edit: not saying sorcs are bad in PVP, just that shield 'stacking' isn't what makes them OP in pvp; I would even say that sorc feels slightly overtuned atm, just not because of shields.

While I don't think this is the venue for me to teach you how to play Sorc, I did say 20k or more effective health. Meaning your average 18-20k normal health + a single shield. I was being generous as it's usually closer to 30k+ (20kish health and 10k shield) with bars and shields dipping.

*Edit- As a side note, I didn't even mention shield stacking. Just how refreshing is op.

However, this guy can show you what I mean, he's a Pretty good Sorc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2d3L0IobyM

He dies a lot now since certain things were fixed.

Trippleshieldstack + pirate.

That´s 100% whats overperforming about sorc. Take away pirate and harness from that build and see whats left.

I agree on the pirate part but I think that it would hurt sorcs very hard if you can't stack both shields anymore. Probably only necrobuilds could handle this. I think the reason why sorcs are so strong right now are because of the sets (Amberplasm, Lich and of course Necropotence).

Derra's suggestion is a bit harsh.
I think stacking should stay but in more expensive way. Sorc's shield is pretty cheap in comparisson with BoL or Dragonblood, for example.
Harness is just stupid because it scales off magicka. If you have 50k magicka or more (I have more on my Nightblade) it restores around 4.5-6k magicka. That's insane endless sustain agaisnt each magic build.

I think it´s mainly an adaption of playstyle.

Currently fullHP shieldstacking allows for incredibly slow turret playstyles on sorc (especially with the addition of mines).

Maybe i´m just crazy for refusing to utilize harness into my builds. It somehow works for me. I just can´t facetank in the same way other sorcs can.

Spammable gap closers make every fight a face tank.

Harness Magicka return is broken, if that were fixed, I think the cost of double stacking would balance it out. Try it with the Nullify morph and see what I mean.

I can make a one shield build work too, but it requires something akin to 55K max magicka. With out current rate of power creep that's likely to be common in six months time, in which case stacking can probably go then

I´m sitting at 36k with pirate in grp and 37.6k when soloing. It works if you don´t need the shield in the first place.

I think the main point about shield balancing should be reducing the strengh of double- and tripplestack in 1v1 situations while giving them a little improvement when facing multiple attackers.

Soris

Since i started playing this game in beta times, magicka sorc is my strongest enemy as a templar on 1v1.
#TrueConfessions

Minalan

Derra wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I struggle to believe that people really think how mana sorc is worse than this heavy armor builds with 700 stamina regen who use to win fights by stacking damage, don't give a *** about blocking or rolling and just facetank everything with heavy armor, 5k weapondamage and troll king.

Derra wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

near infinite effective health 20kish more at a time and immunity to crits all while focusing dps/regen stats, is op as hell

I thought you said you played sorc?
You realize if you cast 2 shields on your backbar, bar swapping takes 1s each and the shields take 1s each to cast so, by the time you got back to your offense bar the first shield would expire in 2 seconds? That would leave you enough time to cast '1' offensive spell (instant cast only), and then switch back to your backbar to refresh.

Or are you talking about PVE where the shield amount isn't halved? sorcs might be OP in PVE, I don't PVE so I wouldn't know

Edit: not saying sorcs are bad in PVP, just that shield 'stacking' isn't what makes them OP in pvp; I would even say that sorc feels slightly overtuned atm, just not because of shields.

While I don't think this is the venue for me to teach you how to play Sorc, I did say 20k or more effective health. Meaning your average 18-20k normal health + a single shield. I was being generous as it's usually closer to 30k+ (20kish health and 10k shield) with bars and shields dipping.

*Edit- As a side note, I didn't even mention shield stacking. Just how refreshing is op.

However, this guy can show you what I mean, he's a Pretty good Sorc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2d3L0IobyM

He dies a lot now since certain things were fixed.

Trippleshieldstack + pirate.

That´s 100% whats overperforming about sorc. Take away pirate and harness from that build and see whats left.

I agree on the pirate part but I think that it would hurt sorcs very hard if you can't stack both shields anymore. Probably only necrobuilds could handle this. I think the reason why sorcs are so strong right now are because of the sets (Amberplasm, Lich and of course Necropotence).

Derra's suggestion is a bit harsh.
I think stacking should stay but in more expensive way. Sorc's shield is pretty cheap in comparisson with BoL or Dragonblood, for example.
Harness is just stupid because it scales off magicka. If you have 50k magicka or more (I have more on my Nightblade) it restores around 4.5-6k magicka. That's insane endless sustain agaisnt each magic build.

I think it´s mainly an adaption of playstyle.

Currently fullHP shieldstacking allows for incredibly slow turret playstyles on sorc (especially with the addition of mines).

Maybe i´m just crazy for refusing to utilize harness into my builds. It somehow works for me. I just can´t facetank in the same way other sorcs can.

Spammable gap closers make every fight a face tank.

Harness Magicka return is broken, if that were fixed, I think the cost of double stacking would balance it out. Try it with the Nullify morph and see what I mean.

I can make a one shield build work too, but it requires something akin to 55K max magicka. With out current rate of power creep that's likely to be common in six months time, in which case stacking can probably go then

I´m sitting at 36k with pirate in grp and 37.6k when soloing. It works if you don´t need the shield in the first place.

I think the main point about shield balancing should be reducing the strengh of double- and tripplestack in 1v1 situations while giving them a little improvement when facing multiple attackers.

Most of us need the shield I've got a big target painted on me.

I don't see any viable way of nerfing shields for 1v1 fights without leaving us wrecking blow fodder for stamina burst DPS. And they scale so badly with multiple attackers, that removing the two stack leaves you naked when chased by more than one person.

technohic

Turelus wrote: »

Everyone says everything is OP, broken, needs nerfing, needs buffing etc.

Just ignore them, focus on what you can do with your class with the abilities and changes give, when a patch comes around provide constructive feedback which will help Wrobel and his team bring your class more in line.

I actually think its not bad for balance right now; but you're right. Some complaints on every class.

Lord-Otto

Derra wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I struggle to believe that people really think how mana sorc is worse than this heavy armor builds with 700 stamina regen who use to win fights by stacking damage, don't give a *** about blocking or rolling and just facetank everything with heavy armor, 5k weapondamage and troll king.

Derra wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

near infinite effective health 20kish more at a time and immunity to crits all while focusing dps/regen stats, is op as hell

I thought you said you played sorc?
You realize if you cast 2 shields on your backbar, bar swapping takes 1s each and the shields take 1s each to cast so, by the time you got back to your offense bar the first shield would expire in 2 seconds? That would leave you enough time to cast '1' offensive spell (instant cast only), and then switch back to your backbar to refresh.

Or are you talking about PVE where the shield amount isn't halved? sorcs might be OP in PVE, I don't PVE so I wouldn't know

Edit: not saying sorcs are bad in PVP, just that shield 'stacking' isn't what makes them OP in pvp; I would even say that sorc feels slightly overtuned atm, just not because of shields.

While I don't think this is the venue for me to teach you how to play Sorc, I did say 20k or more effective health. Meaning your average 18-20k normal health + a single shield. I was being generous as it's usually closer to 30k+ (20kish health and 10k shield) with bars and shields dipping.

*Edit- As a side note, I didn't even mention shield stacking. Just how refreshing is op.

However, this guy can show you what I mean, he's a Pretty good Sorc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2d3L0IobyM

He dies a lot now since certain things were fixed.

Trippleshieldstack + pirate.

That´s 100% whats overperforming about sorc. Take away pirate and harness from that build and see whats left.

I agree on the pirate part but I think that it would hurt sorcs very hard if you can't stack both shields anymore. Probably only necrobuilds could handle this. I think the reason why sorcs are so strong right now are because of the sets (Amberplasm, Lich and of course Necropotence).

Derra's suggestion is a bit harsh.
I think stacking should stay but in more expensive way. Sorc's shield is pretty cheap in comparisson with BoL or Dragonblood, for example.
Harness is just stupid because it scales off magicka. If you have 50k magicka or more (I have more on my Nightblade) it restores around 4.5-6k magicka. That's insane endless sustain agaisnt each magic build.

I think it´s mainly an adaption of playstyle.

Currently fullHP shieldstacking allows for incredibly slow turret playstyles on sorc (especially with the addition of mines).

Maybe i´m just crazy for refusing to utilize harness into my builds. It somehow works for me. I just can´t facetank in the same way other sorcs can.

To be fair,
the mage class has always been exactly that in every RPG before: living artillery. It's why I play them.
ESO is the first game I played that screws with that role, but only in PvP, really. Since they took away the super mobile glasscannon role, it makes sense for sorcs to be strong if locked in place with mines, shields and ranged burst.
How would you change that without making sorc too similar to the rogue and warrior classes we see all around?

Derra

Minalan wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I struggle to believe that people really think how mana sorc is worse than this heavy armor builds with 700 stamina regen who use to win fights by stacking damage, don't give a *** about blocking or rolling and just facetank everything with heavy armor, 5k weapondamage and troll king.

Derra wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

near infinite effective health 20kish more at a time and immunity to crits all while focusing dps/regen stats, is op as hell

I thought you said you played sorc?
You realize if you cast 2 shields on your backbar, bar swapping takes 1s each and the shields take 1s each to cast so, by the time you got back to your offense bar the first shield would expire in 2 seconds? That would leave you enough time to cast '1' offensive spell (instant cast only), and then switch back to your backbar to refresh.

Or are you talking about PVE where the shield amount isn't halved? sorcs might be OP in PVE, I don't PVE so I wouldn't know

Edit: not saying sorcs are bad in PVP, just that shield 'stacking' isn't what makes them OP in pvp; I would even say that sorc feels slightly overtuned atm, just not because of shields.

While I don't think this is the venue for me to teach you how to play Sorc, I did say 20k or more effective health. Meaning your average 18-20k normal health + a single shield. I was being generous as it's usually closer to 30k+ (20kish health and 10k shield) with bars and shields dipping.

*Edit- As a side note, I didn't even mention shield stacking. Just how refreshing is op.

However, this guy can show you what I mean, he's a Pretty good Sorc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2d3L0IobyM

He dies a lot now since certain things were fixed.

Trippleshieldstack + pirate.

That´s 100% whats overperforming about sorc. Take away pirate and harness from that build and see whats left.

I agree on the pirate part but I think that it would hurt sorcs very hard if you can't stack both shields anymore. Probably only necrobuilds could handle this. I think the reason why sorcs are so strong right now are because of the sets (Amberplasm, Lich and of course Necropotence).

Derra's suggestion is a bit harsh.
I think stacking should stay but in more expensive way. Sorc's shield is pretty cheap in comparisson with BoL or Dragonblood, for example.
Harness is just stupid because it scales off magicka. If you have 50k magicka or more (I have more on my Nightblade) it restores around 4.5-6k magicka. That's insane endless sustain agaisnt each magic build.

I think it´s mainly an adaption of playstyle.

Currently fullHP shieldstacking allows for incredibly slow turret playstyles on sorc (especially with the addition of mines).

Maybe i´m just crazy for refusing to utilize harness into my builds. It somehow works for me. I just can´t facetank in the same way other sorcs can.

Spammable gap closers make every fight a face tank.

Harness Magicka return is broken, if that were fixed, I think the cost of double stacking would balance it out. Try it with the Nullify morph and see what I mean.

I can make a one shield build work too, but it requires something akin to 55K max magicka. With out current rate of power creep that's likely to be common in six months time, in which case stacking can probably go then

I´m sitting at 36k with pirate in grp and 37.6k when soloing. It works if you don´t need the shield in the first place.

I think the main point about shield balancing should be reducing the strengh of double- and tripplestack in 1v1 situations while giving them a little improvement when facing multiple attackers.

Most of us need the shield I've got a big target painted on me.

I don't see any viable way of nerfing shields for 1v1 fights without leaving us wrecking blow fodder for stamina burst DPS. And they scale so badly with multiple attackers, that removing the two stack leaves you naked when chased by more than one person.

The reason why my playstyle evolved into what it is now is exactly that - shields not scaling with multiple attackers. If there are enough people going out of their way to make your life miserable as a minecamper eventually you have to change