PTS Feedback Thread for Master Crafting Writs

pattyLtd

I only do writs to get legendary upgrade mats not gonna use them to just hope i get something back worthwhile because we all know by now how dissappointing that can be sometimes xD.

Slurg

I haven't yet received a single one of these master writs on my 9 trait master crafter who knows every recipe and rune and all chapters of almost all of the motifs in the game (except brand new ones). If I did I sure wouldn't be making legendary items for them without knowing what the rewards are and what the actual cost is. Making everything 1 voucher on PTS makes it impossible to get appropriate feedback on whether the writs are worth it, but maybe that's not the intent.

If this kind of hassle is intentional, I am going to call this as just a way to say these items are "available" in game while the real intent is to drive people to the crown store items to avoid all the annoyance. But I suppose I won't know for sure until it goes live and see what the actual drop rates are and what prices the writs and items are selling for on the traders. Not impressed so far though.

Majia

helediron wrote: »

Master Alchemy writ:
Should do health potion with
- Restore Health
- Uncertainty
- Spell Resist

I think this is undoable. Bugloss and Butterfly Wings give 2 restore health, 1 unecrtainty, 1 spell resist. Then only Nirnroot has Uncertainty but it has ravage health. No other ingredient with spell resist has uncertainty.

Same here - searched and tested a while, but the only combination for Uncertainty is Nirnroot + Buttergly Wings and than its impossible to get Restore Health on it.

sylvieanne

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Nothing should be above green quality that we are giving away

I don't agree with this. It looks like there will be a plethera of different levels of master writs, whereas the ones that require more substantial items will give more substantial rewards. Though not being able to complete one yet, I cannot see what the more-substantial-reward actually is (ie, how many vouchers) and how that compares to what the cost of the higher end items are that you can exchange them for - but there are some doozies per the Natch Potes:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]More difficult, rare, and expensive crafted items provide more Writ Vouchers on average than their more commonplace counterparts.
[*]Currently, you can obtain the following items from Rolis Hlaalu in exchange for Writ Vouchers:

• Style Items, individual Motif chapters, or the complete book for the Ebony Motif
• Two Legendary Furnishing plans per tradeskill
• The recipe and unique component for the Target Skeleton Furnishing
• The recipe and unique component for Aetherial Ambrosia
• Crafting station Furnishings for each tradeskill, and a dye station Furnishing
• Attunable crafting stations for Blacksmithing, Clothier, and Woodworking tradeskills, which can be used near crafted item set sites to transform them into Furnishing versions of those set stations

Furthermore, if you don't want to do the master writ for fear of legendary items, I imagine they will be selling for a lot for the people that do - either way, it's a win-win.

kojou

Did you receive any Master Crafting Writs from the regular Crafting Writs?

No. I did all writs on one character and didn't receive one.

Was it easy to understand exactly what you were crafting?

Probably, since I understand crafting in general, but since I didn't get one I have no idea.

Do you have any other general feedback?

I think the drop rate on the Master Writs is too low. I don't expect to get one every writ, but one a day would be nice.

Akwila

Yeah no. The chance on regular writ drop to even get a masterwrit is exceedingly stupid. did 12 of them (one crafter literally has every style [sans a few akaviri] and every trait on every item) and still nothing.

Make this drop rate violently higher.

Or make it guaranteed if you do all 6 one toon. Like if you do all 6 in one day, send a mail to the player with a single random master writ request. The regular writs are already borderline not worth the input (in terms of gold and what you actually put into it) but some times pays off if you get a gold temper. If.

xXSilverDragonXx

The drop rate now is the least of my concerns because honestly you can get all your knowledge required for the only ones sane or savvy people would want to do - enchant, alchemy, food.

It is the fact that it wants legendary rather than epic. I think epic would be and should be fine because for legendary that means you will have to make it legendary. That is going to screw with the market fiercely nevermind that it is a massive gold sink. Around 80k easy for legendary upgrades on heavy before people decide to be *** and do what they just did for the psjiic stuff which was price gouge like crazy and raise prices 10x higher for every recipe fragment. Yes. They went from 4-5k average to 50k and months later have settled at 15k. Do you even know what this will do to the gold tannin markets? To the price of kutas?

Unless these writ drops become a 50% or more chance to get kutas, dreugh wax, tempering alloy there is no damn way people are going to do them unless they have boatloads of money to literally throw away on this nonsense. This is unbelievable. Truly unbelievable. Drop it to epic. Legendary is something most players don't even do in this game for the simple fact that the price to do it is far too high. Certainly for most it is too high to do with your constant updates that require build changes. And definitely too high for most to to for a shot at Rolis' inventory which is not that great. You just basically put an attunement table or ebony motif at the cost of 80k. Well done.

I really wish you would go into your games and learn about what is going on in them. You are like the 1% that say 'oh it's easy to earn a million a year. That's nothing!'

elantaura

As someone without access to pts, after reading this and a few other threadsI'm concerned about the gold tempers/tannins/Rosin and The amount it costs. temper is 22000 each here right now you need 8 to garentee it - thats 176000 gold without style ingredient, purple, blue and green tempers/Rosin s/tannins plus mats. thats a significant amount of money. More than a lot of the houses, ( I'm guessing fully furnished ones too) what are the rewards for that? Are they worth more than that?

Akwila

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

....is a massive gold sink.

Literally the biggest point why this is a thing. Economics man. Great stuff.

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

Unless these writ drops become a 50% or more chance to get kutas, dreugh wax, tempering alloy there is no damn way people are going to do them unless they have boatloads of money to literally throw away on this nonsense.

I will do them. I will farm more, but, yeah, gonna do them. Though the drop rate to actually get the master writs need to increase. Dramatically.

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

You just basically put an attunement table or ebony motif at the cost of 80k. Well done.

Again, thats the goddamned point. For what it does, 80k isn't bad. Not even remotely.

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

I really wish you would go into your games and learn about what is going on in them. You are like the 1% that say 'oh it's easy to earn a million a year. That's nothing!'

Million a year is horrifically, laughably, insanely slow. Yes when I broke a million gold the first time, it took about a year. Now I make that in about a month of casual play. It can be done. You aren't doing it right. Sorry you aren't. Learning is hard but not impossible.

xXSilverDragonXx

nevermind

nick_dean14

Firstly, I really really like the concept of having genuinely difficult crafting writs that give you rare, exclusive materials and motif's that make dedicated crafters stand out as being something special (as was the case with the glass style before you ruined it by adding it to the crown store). In the same way that talented solo-PvEers get their maelstrom weapons and dedicated PvPers get their emperor titles, crafters should get something unique that cannot be bought for crowns. These master writs, for now, will achieve this.

I'm okay with them having a low drop rate, the greater the rarity, the more prestigious the reward right? If you can get 1 or 2 per week, assuming you do every writ each day, seems reasonable to me, although this depends entirely on the number of master writs you will need to hand in to earn each reward. As long as you get the balance right, it could be brilliant.

However, in my eyes, something will have to change about the legendary quality items. In some ways I really like the idea of having to craft the best of the best for these quests, but the level of investment has to be reflected in the reward gained. as far as I see it, there are a few options:

- Greatly improve the drop rate on gold materials from the regular max level crafting writs to a guaranteed drop, so that basically once a week you can do 1 legendary piece of gear with the materials you've earned and means people won't get shafted by RNG, going days without a single dreugh wax.
- Make the master writs only require purple quality gear to complete them, as this is more reasonably affordable for the majority of players.
- Greatly increase the number of writ vouchers you earn for completing a master writ that requires a legendary piece of gear.

All of these have drawbacks, as the first makes legendary gear less exclusive, the second makes the master writs seem less special as you're no longer making the very best of the best, and the third will make it significantly quicker to 'finish' the content and buy everything that the vouchers have on offer. To me the first option seems like the obvious choice, as it more greatly incentivises completing the regular crafting writs, keeps the master writs feeling 'special', and maintains the longevity of the new content.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

SirCritical

It isn't teally true that the sacrifice of those 8 tempers won't worth the price, because maybe you'll earn millions from selling the furniture from the recipe you got by handing in the gold item.

The only problem is that we don't know that how big will be the demand for these furnitures? How many players will invest their time and sink money for just a purely visualistic thing, their homestead? I really think that there should be quests, in connection with the house, with which you could somehow "upgrade" your house, what will earn some advantages in combat (e.g. "you rested very well, so you gain bonus dmg"), because at the end in this game everyything is about combat.

And I'm really missing guild quest, upgradable guilds etc. which would synergyse greatly with guild halls, and now we arrived to our start: housing.

xXSilverDragonXx

They have to either drop many more legendary upgrade items or they have to drop the requirement to epic/purple. Either way this will hit the markets. I can describe the fallout pretty well.

If you increase the drop rate of legendary tempers, the price will drop on them within the market because there will be people who have no interest in master writs. But given the market has been out of control on console and pc for a while (pc went south in the summer, console as I know it has been bad for ages) this might finally fix that and make it so that more people could actually gold their items without going poor doing it. I see this as a potentially good thing because in the long run it will mean more people can have BIS upgrades if they choose to invest because they will not be dirt cheap but they will be more affordable.

The other thing you can do is change to epic only. This means that there will be some spike in that market but not much. Purples are easy to farm if you need them unlike golds which are definitely not. You could buy them if you need to. They will not break your bank unless you really are strapped for cash which I don't think anyone is that broke. The legendary markets will remain as they are, keep rising and the long term hit to them will be non existent as they are not impacted at all by this. Odds are golds will continue to rise over the long term unless some change in the game adjusts that.

Finally... leaving the master writs as they are with no drop changes:

Only those who have money they want to waste on these writs or those who have a surplus of this supply will deem them worth the waste. They will become a true 1%. Some might really want something specific and actually shell out for the legendary items/upgrades to get it. This will drive the prices up much like what we saw with the 150% xp recipe where fragments went from 4-6k average to 50k flat then over 1.5 months dropped to 15k average. It reset the entire market with the end fallout being that the fragments are 3x more, the roes are about 2k more each. Gold tempers will become rarer with people wasting 8 of them for one writ. This will drive up the prices. They are 10k on pc for alloy and I think 5k approx for dreugh. Not sure about console. It's hard to know how much of a hit they will take. Could easily be double and I would not be surprised if they were that much or more. It also means that the average player will likely not be able to upgrade items to gold. Certainly not full sets. This could long term shift the entire market on many things because of a panic to make gold which can cause hefty undercutting in established markets as people feel the pressure to make money. There could be the potential for this to mess with the entire economy if enough people really want/need to have their items legendary. In the end, many items could be rendered worthless because of large scale undercutting with everyone trying to earn money to gold their items. It could take months for the market to recover if it ever does. Once there is a new set high price, those prices are very slow to come down unless there is a new influx of that commodity into the marketplace driving down the prices. Witness the recipe fragments. They are still 3x higher. This will impact all but the really rich in the end. And it is potentially avoidable. I called it on the psijiic nightmare. I'll call it on this.

Now ESO might not care about this except players do like to feel as though things are within their reach. If they feel they need BIS legendary to play this game how they want and they see it is unattainable, they will probably become frustrated and move on.

You don't do something like this without considering the ramifications. Clearly the ramifications were not considered when the 150% xp boost recipe was released and that is actually a much smaller scale where there were other options already available to offset some of that disaster. Here, there are no alternatives to make legendary. I suggest you seriously consider how you are going to implement this properly or you might have many pissed off non 1% players when the realize what happened, how and why it happened. You'll be like the banks at 2008. People still hate banks almost 10 years later.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Ilsabet

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Does the actual number of perk points sunk into a skill count towards 'mastery' (if I keep a character whose Blacksmithing is maxed at Steel ingots for the purpose of collecting low-level mats, does that count against him being a 'master'?

Master writs only drop from max-level writ rewards. So if your character is only at tier 2 or whatever for blacksmithing, he won't receive master writs at all.

Saucy_Jack

To play devil's advocate:

As a trader, on the one hand, I'm not a huge fan of requiring the legendary mats to complete the master writs, because hey, those mats are basically money in the bank.

BUT.

On the other hand, these are MASTER writs, intended to be done by MASTER CRAFTERS. You can hardly call chump purple gear/runes/etc. MASTER-level creations; if you hunt around, you can buy 200 rekuta in the kiosks for a song. Purple doesn't cost anyone anything, and everyone here knows it. I don't like parting with my gold tempers anymore than the next guy, but the whole point is that these are very specialized (and in terms of the skelly dummy, probably VERY VERY VERY LUCRATIVE) items, so requiring a big investment to learn how to make them makes sense to me.

I say the system's fine the way it is.

Hamfast

To start off, I love crafting and hate PvP, call it a character flaw... so I got the crafting writs, completed them, and got the master crafter writ...

To answer the first set of questions, it was very understandable, in fact I wish folks asking for armor to be made would be this clear...

Rubedite Gauntlets
Quality - Legendary
Trait - Training
Style - Ancient Elf
Set - Redistributor

My only issue was the set, as it turns out, the redistributor set is in the IC, a location I avoid like the plague, it was also locked on the PTS server...

While I understand these Master Crafter Writs may include any combination of sets and requirements, I think it would be better if it was limited to those crafting sets that are not in a PvP area.

Dev

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Master Crafting Writs. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Did you receive any Master Crafting Writs from the regular Crafting Writs?
• Was it easy to understand exactly what you were crafting?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

Yes, writs should not be used to gate housing functions. Training dummies should be separated from the writ system as they are needed to help people work on their rotations.

Limiting the availability because of rng based writ vouchers is going to cause more drama then you expect.

Akwila

Dev wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Master Crafting Writs. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Did you receive any Master Crafting Writs from the regular Crafting Writs?
• Was it easy to understand exactly what you were crafting?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

Yes, writs should not be used to gate housing functions. Training dummies should be separated from the writ system as they are needed to help people work on their rotations.

Limiting the availability because of rng based writ vouchers is going to cause more drama then you expect.

Only if you're exceptionally entitled.

Go parse on bloodspwan. QQ less.

Pandorii

Akwila wrote: »

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

....is a massive gold sink.

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

You just basically put an attunement table or ebony motif at the cost of 80k. Well done.

Again, thats the goddamned point. For what it does, 80k isn't bad. Not even remotely.

Hopefully I didn't botch the formatting.

I've been thinking about this a lot. In context, paying 80k for an ebony motif, the new abrosia recipe, gold furnishing recipes, attunement tables (though it sucks that it's only 1/3 for the set and one set per table), the dummy recipe, and dummy part, this isn't actually a correct analysis. Put in those terms, it actually seems quite nice, but it's actually costing more.

First, it's the time cost of doing the writs themselves, and in cases where the materials are more expensive than the reward from the writ itself, it's also a money-cost to do those writs. Say you have a 1/20 chance of getting a master writ, then put a value to the cost in time and resources it takes to do 20 normal writs. This is part of the cost. Plus, there's the cost in time of doing the master writ, which is negligible.

Said another way, you'll want to add 80k to the value of selling the master writ in the public market, and this is a more accurate reflection of the true cost of the items mentioned above (purchased with the voucher).

One last version of this... Say you let somebody else give their time a value and buy the master writ from somebody else, how much would you be paying? Estimates? I'm thinking 200k, maybe even 400k on consoles at launch. Take that value and add 80k and that's how much a *** voucher reward is.

=D sorry if that's complicated.

Dubhliam

A picture tells more than a thousand words:

Dubhliam

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

RNG is terrible. I got 1 in 10 writs. Another got 1 in I think 17. That is shameful.

The master writ I got required legendary kuta enchant. Are you serious? Someone has to spend a kuta to get one item from Rolis' inventory? Should be purple level I feel. Epic is very high. Kuta is, well, legendary. Lots of players don't even do legendary anything.

Now imagine you have to make a Legendary sword of Hunding's Rage.
8 gold + 4 purple + 3 blue + 2 green tempers.

Dev

Akwila wrote: »

Only if you're exceptionally entitled.

Go parse on bloodspwan. QQ less.

You think it is better to consume another player's time to tank it, and then also consume all the resources for running an instance instead of having training dummies being available?

dont worry, you will be able to rip people off on all the other furniture and ect, just this one part should be removed.

BigBragg

Question: will the crown store exclusive motifs be part of the equation for these master writs?

xXSilverDragonXx

Two master writs out of seven so far today. Legendary enchant. Epic draugr tava's favor medium well fitted. Cannot complete the master leather works because I dont' have access to traders to find this motif needed. Still have several more toons to do this on.

I can see that part of this is a way to deter people who just speed leveled up the crafts from doing the masters because they need to have research and motifs on those toons.

Can master writs be deposited in the bank? I think I had to activate mine to accept it and doubt that would be possible.

Soella

Number of vouchers for master writs with legendary requirements should cover price of gold mats. The question is what the number should be? For PC probably 50 could be reasonable at the start. What I hear about console, they probably need higher number due to higher price on gold mats.

So, first month or so it will be pretty reasonable - you invest in legendary writ once, and get tons of vouchers to buy what you need. But half of year later, when a lot of people will have most of what they wanted for writs? Rebalance again? I don't see how system can be autobalanced, so I'd rather not have extremum requests like legendary crafts in it.

milkbox

So, I got a Master Woodworking Writ on my first try.

Ruby Ash Shield
Twilight's Embrace
Well Fitted
Primal
Legendary

Easy to complete (but only because I didn't flinch at losing 8 rosin on the PTS).

Also a relief that there were a limited amount of items at the Master Writ vendor. I was afraid that a lot of furniture crafting recipes would be locked behind the writs, but it all seemed like high-end stuff I could live without/buy from other crafters/be happy to achieve at a slow pace.

Seems like the majority of furniture recipes will drop in-world, be lootable from containers or purchaseable from merchants- so I'm ok with the master writ stuff being harder to obtain.

I'm curious to see how many vouchers these items will cost, though. Something like the test-skeleton required a few different components that can only be purchased from the master-writ vendor. If the drop rates on writs are super low and the number of vouchers per item super high, it could take this endeavor from "challenging" to "impossible".

Overall: increase the master writ drop rate chance, keep the voucher prices low and consider changing material requirements from legendary to epic. Otherwise, I predict a lot of forum rage.

xXSilverDragonXx

Is this the path to the test dummies? Or do they come from drops in the world?

Contraptions

I get that writs are supposed to be a sink, but was there really a need to make legendary items part of the requirements? Last I checked gold mats are pretty rare, not like people were drowning in them. I wouldn't be surprised if the amount of gold/mat farming bots increased after the next patch as a result of these writs. Maybe drop the writ requirements down to purple perhaps? The more people that are willing to participate in these writs the better it works as a sink I feel.

There's an issue of people getting items that need DLC access to craft, while they don't have the DLC themselves. Is this intended? Perhaps limiting the items needed to things that can be done in the base game would be better.

nine9six

Not willing to spend Gold mats on Writs.

The_Undefined

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

Yeah epic is fine. Legendary is way too much

General feedback: By putting legendary items and other in-demand items (including nirn items) in with these master writs you're taking these items from the player pool. You're getting newer players every day and the idea is to motivate crafters to take items AWAY from players and hand them in for vouchers?

I understand you want to give crafters endgame and meaning, this is not the way to do it. Do not put legendary or extremely difficult motif / traits / etc in with this system. You're hurting the general pool of players far more than you are giving crafters something to do.

Please cap the items at purple, take out traits that would be most useful to actual players, and tone down in general the requirement for these items.