What Constitutes "Good" PVP to You

Bandit1215

KingKalbo wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

KingKalbo wrote: »

No lag, no roots, no slows, no stuns from stealth.. but people tell me I'm crazy

no lag - big check on the not crazy side there...

no roots, no slows - i don't know man, without those you might as well just stand back and wave at some of the DK's playing the game...bit of an odd thought there...

no stuns from stealth - here we have it folks: C-R-A-Z-Y...okay, so i'm sitting outside an outpost, looking for a juicy target...ambush some noob level 24 wearing a robe - surprise, they really have black rose and plague doctor under those sheets their wearing and on top of that - they have all 561 champion points at their disposal...

no stun from stealth and my chances of ganking you are about zero out of ten...

Yeah but the plethora of roots and slows ingame is fairly ridiculous. Its on everything it seems like even NPC attacks. So I shuffle to avoid a root/slow only to get hit by another again and again.

The lag was a joke it's opressive some times but it isn't going away anytime soon.

Stuns from stealth can be handled with magelight but my bar is already full of junk avoiding the roots/slows.. round and round we go. I've played stealth in Swotor and GW2; never once thought I needed a stun attached with an opening shot to maintain control.

Personally I feel there should be a capped snare percentage. So let's say the maximum you can reduce an enemies move speed is 60%, if you have a skill that snares for 40 and a dot that snares for 50%, it just sits at 60% total reduction in move speed instead of being a ridiculous 90%.

Waffennacht

Roots are necessary. As long as there are stam gap closers and gap closer snares, magicka builds need roots to even pretend that there is range in this game.

DKs need roots or it's just lmao at you as you desperately try to hit me.

Gap closers and their snares need to be changed before we look at roots

geonsocal

busy at work today - but, I will add this to the discussion:

not to blow sunshine up anyone's skirts - however, it really makes me smile to be part of a community wherein others are so passionate about something, and, so dang smart also...

seriously, some of ya'll got some big brains

DocFrost72

I LOVE, LOOOOVE siege fights. Something so gratifying about a siege defense, particularly. My gods, a fire Ballista? A cold fire Ballista? I'm happy for hours on end.

Apherius

Personnaly , for me , the best PVP is a PVP without stamina nightblade .

Lord_Wrath

When i dont instantly die without a chance to fart.

Stridig

The best PvP I have found has been in Blackwater Blade. You can't rely as much on gear. You can't rely on CP. And in most cases can't rely on weapon ults. There are some VERY skilled players there and their skill is what they rely on. When the population is fairly even, you find amazing fights. That's my two cents. Spend it any way you wish.

geonsocal

DocFrost72 wrote: »

I LOVE, LOOOOVE siege fights. Something so gratifying about a siege defense, particularly. My gods, a fire Ballista? A cold fire Ballista? I'm happy for hours on end.

oh my goodness have you ever been so engrossed with firing off your siege only to realize that the wall is down and you're about to be zerged down by a bunch of enemies...

exeeter702

Sorry but im going with the small scale competitive crowd.

Small scale pvp environments that afford or allow players the opportunity to effectively outplay the opposition. Environments where each individual player has a substantial percent chance to change the outcome.
The more players you have in pvp the less impact each player potentially has to make a difference. This isnt an opinion mind you.

This is why 8v8 or 10v10 (no more then that) with clear win conditions as well as very small arena based pvp like 3v3 or 4v4 where compostions and communication are king, both provide the most engaging and genuinely rewarding pvp experience to me. Experiences where i can clearly and understandably confirm why it was i (we) lost a match or am able to see just precicely how i was able to outplay an opposing player.

These scenarios exisit in cyrodil and IC to some extent but they are incredibly rare and incredibly fleeting. Everything in cydroil will eventually boil down to a numbers (player count) game given enough time. Its a law of mmo open world pvp.

Alot of people will get upste when i say this, as has been the case before but.....

Large scale open world pvp usually atracts players that are easily swooned by the spectacle of it. The notion that you are a part of something climactic, something larger than the sum of its parts tends to hit players with said mindsets directly in the feels. So many times you see people on here championing the "warfare tactics" of it all... Like a soft healer standing in back while the front line presses on or supporting a siege line while they take down a keep. Are you a part of the spectacle? Are you helping the cause? The answer to both of those is yes absolutely. But are you truly being challenged as a player? Are you being pushed out of your confort zone testing how good of a player you really are? Is the game at that point demonstrating scenarios that clearly show how you won or lost an exchange clearly? The answer is a resounding no. Exciting scenarios can occur on keep walls and bridges of course. Things like smar los and breakneck skirmishes between 4 or 5 players ranging around the 3 levels of any given rampart but again... Having to fish for such satisfaction is grueling and it does not last.

None of that matters because at the end of the day those players that bask in the glory of it can set up a seige engine line, rotating between them all and saying that they are pvping and call it a day. Laege scale objective based pvp is just that, a spectacle that enriches a players experience but giving them the illusion that they are a part of something grandiose where things are on the line. When in reality players that exclusively enjoy that type of pvp environment rarely ever improve on an intricate level as they are simply not challeneged in a way that they would be in structured small scall pvp where their performance actually carries a very real, very measurable weight.

geonsocal

exeeter702 wrote: »

Sorry but im going with the small scale competitive crowd.

Small scale pvp environments that afford or allow players the opportunity to effectively outplay the opposition. Environments where each individual player has a substantial percent chance to change the outcome.
The more players you have in pvp the less impact each player potentially has to make a difference. This isnt an opinion mind you.

This is why 8v8 or 10v10 (no more then that) with clear win conditions as well as very small arena based pvp like 3v3 or 4v4 where compostions and communication are king, both provide the most engaging and genuinely rewarding pvp experience to me. Experiences where i can clearly and understandably confirm why it was i (we) lost a match or am able to see just precicely how i was able to outplay an opposing player.

These scenarios exisit in cyrodil and IC to some extent but they are incredibly rare and incredibly fleeting. Everything in cydroil will eventually boil down to a numbers (player count) game given enough time. Its a law of mmo open world pvp.

Alot of people will get upste when i say this, as has been the case before but.....

Large scale open world pvp usually attracts players that are easily swooned by the spectacle of it. The notion that you are a part of something climactic, something larger than the sum of its parts tends to hit players with said mindsets directly in the feels. So many times you see people on here championing the "warfare tactics" of it all... Like a soft healer standing in back while the front line presses on or supporting a siege line while they take down a keep.

Are you a part of the spectacle? Are you helping the cause? The answer to both of those is yes absolutely. But are you truly being challenged as a player? Are you being pushed out of your comfort zone testing how good of a player you really are? Is the game at that point demonstrating scenarios that clearly show how you won or lost an exchange? The answer is a resounding no.

Exciting scenarios can occur on keep walls and bridges of course. Things like smar los and breakneck skirmishes between 4 or 5 players ranging around the 3 levels of any given rampart but again... Having to fish for such satisfaction is grueling and it does not last.

None of that matters because at the end of the day those players that bask in the glory of it can set up a seige engine line, rotating between them all and saying that they are pvping and call it a day. Large scale objective based pvp is just that, a spectacle that enriches a players experience but giving them the illusion that they are a part of something grandiose where things are on the line. When in reality players that exclusively enjoy that type of pvp environment rarely ever improve on an intricate level as they are simply not challeneged in a way that they would be in structured small scall pvp where their performance actually carries a very real, very measurable weight.

really good stuff...very well composed and one of my favorite reads here in awhile...thanks @exeeter702 ...