What Constitutes "Good" PVP to You

geonsocal

i read through a lot of everyone's post...some i agree with - some i don't...

one thing that is hard to judge and define though is - what constitutes "good" pvp for you?

just to put it out there - this is my first mmo, so i have no real frame of reference except for what i know here in eso...

at this point - i could really care less what other mmo's have or have not done in their games...i'm dealing and playing in this one only...

i've written a bunch of comments on the situation already; but, i'll say it again - the most fun i had pvping was in the old arena district prior to the flags going up in IC...total chaos between all three alliances - it was like fighting 30 people in a phonebooth...i loved it...

but (big butt) - that's just me...i'm curious to hear what some others consider to be "good"/enjoyable pvp...

not sure there's any real wrong or right answers - just different peoples different opinions, but, ya'll generally write some real interesting and revealing stuff - so i'm wondering...

for what it's worth - my idea of perfect pvp is something that makes your face look like this:

Prabooo

Lagless PvP = Happy PvP

geonsocal

c'mon @Prabooo - perfector of the 5 word or less post

gotta be more to it than that for you...

Prabooo

I enjoy PvP and I have found improvement in my playing through time, but the only thing that bugs me still to this day is getting killed by lag... killed by lag... I could start a band with that name...

geonsocal

killed by lag...sounds like some metal stuff

I got ya, the environment and scale of the fights aren't really that important to ya - thanks...

geonsocal

just a head's up- there's already a couple of really good polls discussing this topic by @Alpheu5 and @sirston over on the alliance war spot...

for those of you whom like your pvp bare bones and brutal - let em know

FloppyTouch

Good pvp is to me is small groups spread out through the map like 4-10 man groups all taking or defending stuff that way smaller groups or solo play is more possible. It's when these groups all merge into one spot on the map just to push the others alliances to the gates it's bad pvp.

Good pvp is fair fights not being Zerg down by 24-50 man groups running across the map spamming AoE and heals.

I know there is no way to stop the zergs it's AvAvA but I do miss the days of seeing small groups all over the map doing there own thing,

Rohamad_Ali

Pre lighting patch Cyrodiil was as close to perfect PvP I've played in a MMO and not a straight out PvP fighter game .

DHale

No lag is good pvp

runningtings

Probably small to medium scale not ruined by a zerg running about spamming Destro Ulti or Prox Det, Vicious Death or whatever the zerg skills of choice are at that time.

No lag would be utopia of course, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.

pattyLtd

I also loved the old arena district and still mis it quite a bit, i can't get into normal cyrodiil the travelling between keeps etc. just completely destroys the exicitement of pvp i got from arena district back in the day lol.

In general it takes way too long to fix minor bugs or deal with unexpected results (like now the proc sets i don't think they even imagined it getitng out of control like this). On top of that it usually comes with something new that's broken.

And it used to play so smooth people told me it's because some anti-bot system that performance dropped to this and I take their word for it but that doesn't make it acceptable. Most important part of anything in the game pve & pvp is that it's fun .... idk i'm not really having fun in pvp anymore and i loved it soooo much in the past.

DannyLV702

Prabooo wrote: »

Lagless PvP = Happy PvP

This honestly sums it up for me. The one thing that makes me mad when playing this game, is dying to five potatoes simply because I couldn't break free.

Aside from that, I enjoy everything from large scale, to dueling.

Your_Toy

Honestly this game has set the standard for large scale PvP. Even with some of the reoccurring issues it is still one of the best, and that is why most of us are still here. ESO has the best of both worlds as far as small scale and large scale. People should not complain that they get ran over by a 24 man group when they only have 10. It is going to happen. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Good PvP before ESO to me was WoW 12 man groups vs 12 man groups in a controlled environment. Before that was WaR (Warhammer Age of Reckoning) which was way more chaotic than ESO. If you really want to play a crap PvP game, go to BDO for a day, you will come back here screaming to jump into Cyro.

oTheTownDrunk

One set of skills and abilities everyone must choose from and equal amount of points per character to distribute as they please. It must take work to kill someone, no 3 second combos if the person responds correctly and quickly. Allow all players to have some type of cross heal and allow competitive skilled players to be able to compete with much larger groups if called targets are executed properly with precis spell combinations. There is very little target calling or cross healing as is. 5-15 should be accomplish able on the regular if they are a well organized team lead by a target caller with cross healing.

Ultima Online Second Age for example.

geonsocal

thank you all very much for kicking in - i really appreciate it...

just to get it out there - i am in fact not suffering from any type of 'high blood pressure' illness, so i'm not tying to completely avoid any "salt"

I seem to have developed a skill for mellowing folks out in a forum environment - hmmmmmm, contact high through the Internet


after reading through some of the input and feedback here and in some other threads - i get that there are a lot of folks whom really enjoy the aspect of objective oriented pvp...

being able to immerse themselves in the "horse" ride, alliance war, taking and defending scrolls, keeps and emperorships...

see @Astanphaeus , @Solariken , @God_flakes I can can appreciate your view points...legit concerns about changing things up too much - no guarantee that the next thing will be "better"...

I guess if anything then, I wish we could have IC with the ability to continually rez on any of our alliance platforms in the city - that way we can keep the combat party rolling...

if you only have a limited amount of time for playing the game and you do enjoy the PvP aspect - who wants to spend that time either riding a horse, searching for some "action", or firing off seige weapons...

I just want to fight...hopefully you all are on ps4 so I can fight alongside or against you

KingKalbo

No lag, no roots, no slows, no stuns from stealth.. but people tell me I'm crazy

geonsocal

KingKalbo wrote: »

No lag, no roots, no slows, no stuns from stealth.. but people tell me I'm crazy

no lag - big check on the not crazy side there...

no roots, no slows - i don't know man, without those you might as well just stand back and wave at some of the DK's playing the game...bit of an odd thought there...

no stuns from stealth - here we have it folks: C-R-A-Z-Y...okay, so i'm sitting outside an outpost, looking for a juicy target...ambush some noob level 24 wearing a robe - surprise, they really have black rose and plague doctor under those sheets their wearing and on top of that - they have all 561 champion points at their disposal...

no stun from stealth (which will grant an extra hit or two) and my chances of ganking them are about zero out of ten...

pieratsos

Your_Toy wrote: »

Honestly this game has set the standard for large scale PvP. Even with some of the reoccurring issues it is still one of the best, and that is why most of us are still here. ESO has the best of both worlds as far as small scale and large scale. People should not complain that they get ran over by a 24 man group when they only have 10. It is going to happen. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Good PvP before ESO to me was WoW 12 man groups vs 12 man groups in a controlled environment. Before that was WaR (Warhammer Age of Reckoning) which was way more chaotic than ESO. If you really want to play a crap PvP game, go to BDO for a day, you will come back here screaming to jump into Cyro.

The problem isnt zerging and large scale fights. Even solo - small scale players like large scale fights with 100 people fighting all over the place and its a complete chaos. The problem is all the broken mechanics - skills that lead to a mindless zerging where 30-40 people are stacked and going back and forth spamming 1-2 buttons. That requires no skill, it causes lag, u cant fight them unless u run in a mindless zerging ball urself and most people dont find it fun. Thats the problem with large scale PVP and this is why people complain.

KingKalbo

geonsocal wrote: »

KingKalbo wrote: »

No lag, no roots, no slows, no stuns from stealth.. but people tell me I'm crazy

no lag - big check on the not crazy side there...

no roots, no slows - i don't know man, without those you might as well just stand back and wave at some of the DK's playing the game...bit of an odd thought there...

no stuns from stealth - here we have it folks: C-R-A-Z-Y...okay, so i'm sitting outside an outpost, looking for a juicy target...ambush some noob level 24 wearing a robe - surprise, they really have black rose and plague doctor under those sheets their wearing and on top of that - they have all 561 champion points at their disposal...

no stun from stealth and my chances of ganking you are about zero out of ten...

Yeah but the plethora of roots and slows ingame is fairly ridiculous. Its on everything it seems like even NPC attacks. So I shuffle to avoid a root/slow only to get hit by another again and again.

The lag was a joke it's opressive some times but it isn't going away anytime soon.

Stuns from stealth can be handled with magelight but my bar is already full of junk avoiding the roots/slows.. round and round we go. I've played stealth in Swotor and GW2; never once thought I needed a stun attached with an opening shot to maintain control.

Metemsycosis

Personally i'm a sucker for the huge battles, especially when folks are playing objectives and there seems to be something at stake. And win lose or draw if there's a gritty back and forth 1v1 that you know involves skill, that's excellent pvp. I don't care for entering the map at times when any faction is completely dominating. Gets boring fast.

rteezy

i think that being in a huge zerg spamming aoe into an ocean of red names/healthbars or spamming siege into the same group is the very peak of what oen could possibly dream of achieving in top tier pvp'ing.
Once youa re there you know man! you know you jsut reached the top level.You skill, awareness, knowldge of teh game and mechanics and overall pvp skill jsut reached its cap, bud do nto get distracted, your eye of the storm is off cd and your 2 catapults are charged, its time to PVP!!

geonsocal

rteezy wrote: »

i think that being in a huge zerg spamming aoe into an ocean of red names/healthbars or spamming siege into the same group is the very peak of what one could possibly dream of achieving in top tier pvp'ing.

Once you are there you know man! you know you just reached the top level. Your skill, awareness, knowldge of the game and mechanics and overall pvp skill just reached its cap, but don't get to distracted, your eye of the storm is off cooldown and your 2 catapults are charged, its time to PVP!!

ahhhhhh, finally - a little salt and sarcasm to spice up the day ...ummmm, you were kidding - right?

I gotta be honest though - your post has gotten me wanting to do a little keep defending right now...

hmmmm, those tiny phone keyboards are a bear, huh

leeux

In my opinion, perfect PvP would be something comparable to chess, where you always have available a range of successful moves/actions (unless you're close to end-game), and there should never be an "automatic winning action", just by using skill combos with animation cancelling, or by equipping certain sets.

I don't care too much about number imbalance, as this is a war after all, and numbers should mean something in a war.

But, I'd also prefer some way of being able to compensate for number imbalance through game-mechanics rules (something akin to dynamic ult generation, but absolutely not as it was, completely tied to critical rating, that was really dumb) or something that debuffs enemies in over populated areas, or that compensates allies when defending against overwhelming odds.

Also, there should always be enough time to react (i.e within human reaction time limits) and that means being able to see opponents moves, even if it's just a glimpse of it, before they happen to hit you.

All that would require low latency and good FPS too, for best experience.

Nothing more, nothing else

geonsocal

leeux wrote: »

In my opinion, perfect PvP would be something comparable to chess, where you always have available a range of successful moves/actions (unless you're close to end-game), and there should never be an "automatic winning action", just by using skill combos with animation cancelling, or by equipping certain sets.

I don't care too much about number imbalance, as this is a war after all, and numbers should mean something in a war.

But, I'd also prefer some way of being able to compensate for number imbalance through game-mechanics rules (something akin to dynamic ult generation, but absolutely not as it was, completely tied to critical rating, that was really dumb) or something that debuffs enemies in over populated areas, or that compensates allies when defending against overwhelming odds.

Also, there should always be enough time to react (i.e within human reaction time limits) and that means being able to see opponents moves, even if it's just a glimpse of it, before they happen to hit you.

All that would require low latency and good FPS too, for best experience.

Nothing more, nothing else

all and all some pretty reasonable stuff...and very we'll written too @leeux ...

except for the part about wanting to nerf stealth play - hard to find anything to really troll about...

I like that we have game mechanics benefitting those folks whom like to sit and wait and wait and then wait some more before striking out at an enemy...

I'm willing to use heavy armor, impenatrable gear, magelight or staying in stealth myself to combat stealth attacks...

if you are able to get me out of there in three strikes - good for you...almost never happens though...

some kind of background game mechanic to balance character stats based off of Alliance populations may work - but, I kinda enjoy fighting for the underdog side in the alliance war (for whichever particular alliance is undermanned at the moment)...plus if your part of the alliance getting hammered - it usually means you don't have to ride your mount to go looking for a fight...

geonsocal

KingKalbo wrote: »

No lag, no roots, no slows, no stuns from stealth.. but people tell me I'm crazy

@KingKalbo ...yeah so, little update on the whole no stuns from stealth thing - just got got with around 33k health and some decent resistances - yeah, I wasn't able to move, part of it was velidreth for almost 10k...

no stuns from stealth - not that bad an idea at all

outsideworld76

The should fix the lag, it's what is destroying PvP fun.

Vaoh

PS4 NA.

Fun PvP was any PvP that happened prior to Dark Brotherhood.

Dark Brotherhood was okay since many of the new broken mechanics were seldom used.

Shadows of the Hist began the true proc meta. It was not a very fun patch, but it was at least workable. The PvP really needed improvement here.

One Tamriel is just absolutely horrible. No matter how hard I try it's honestly not even fun anymore except on rare occasions for like 5min. So much needs to be changed.... smh

RebornV3x

1.Fix lag, and random crashes
2.get rid of proc sets
3.nerf destro ultimate
This would be a step in the right direction

AzuraKin

geonsocal wrote: »

i read through a lot of everyone's post...some i agree with - some i don't...

one thing that is hard to judge and define though is - what constitutes "good" pvp for you?

just to put it out there - this is my first mmo, so i have no real frame of reference except for what i know here in eso...

at this point - i could really care less what other mmo's have or have not done in their games...i'm dealing and playing in this one only...

i've written a bunch of comments on the situation already; but, i'll say it again - the most fun i had pvping was in the old arena district prior to the flags going up in IC...total chaos between all three alliances - it was like fighting 30 people in a phonebooth...i loved it...

but (big butt) - that's just me...i'm curious to hear what some others consider to be "good"/enjoyable pvp...

not sure there's any real wrong or right answers - just different peoples different opinions, but, ya'll generally write some real interesting and revealing stuff - so i'm wondering...

for what it's worth - my idea of perfect pvp is something that makes your face look like this:

good pvp is balanced pvp. in any good pvp experience it is for everything there is a counter and for every focus there is a negative.

for example, heavy attacks and channeled attacks do massive damage when they hit. for this reason animation cancelling should not exist because animation cancelling removes the tell when players are performing heavy attacks and channeled attacks like wrecking blow.

i think magicka and stamina should drain that respective resource when blocking. personally i dont think it makes sense for stamina to be drained when blocking magicka attacks as magicka attacks are metaphysical and thus it makes more sense that blocking magic would rain ones mental resources not stamina resources. as such ithink too, that when blocking magicka regen also be disabled.

proc sets except for monster sets should be eitehr disabled in pvp or situational that cannot be 100% guaranteed. example: vicious death procs when YOU the WEARER get the KILLING BLOW.

vamp_emily

Of course it is hard to PvP with lag.

What makes good PvP is when all sides have equal population.

Rohaus

For me, the best PvP is and will always be small scale PvP... where skill overrides zerg mentality.