The devs should really watch this entire video, its spot on whats wrong with the game at the moment.

Minalan

You know what the only real fix for this is?

CP200 gear. Update the Craftable and the overland sets.

Don't update the monster, dungeon, or proc sets until they are all completely scrapped and revamped from the bottom up.

GreenSoup2HoT

I'm going to sum up the whole video for everybody to make it a lot easier to in take for those who do not want to listen to 40 minutes of Fengrush.

I agree with pretty much everything Fengrush has said but not exactly in his words.

@olsborg Feel free to put my summery in your first post in a spoiler so players can read this instead of watching the video if they want to.

• 0:00-5:00 - Fengrush talks about the top 10 reasons to play article ZOS liked. Sums up how PvP is never mentioned.
  
  
• 5:00-8:10 - Fengrush discusses proc sets and how we used to have small percentage based proc sets and now we have crazy high percentage proc sets with very high burst damage (Velidrith, Tremorscale, Selene, Grotharr (not burst but very good in zerg play). All 10% or more). Needs to be toned down.
  
  
• 8:10-11:40 Fengrush talks about cryodill and how the dynamic of pvp plays out. Its either Zerg or Ganking. Pvp has resorted to only taking Emp keeps and a lot of the map is not used. Towns/IC district capture is just flag capture and didn't hit the mark for the small-scale minority. Its either 1-2 people or zergs taking Towns/Districts.
  
  
• 11:40-12:18 Fengrush talks about One Tamriel/Undaunted and how zos nailed it. Was an amazing patch.
  
  
• 12:20-15:50 Fengrush talks about the new sets. He talks about how you can wear 5/5/2 setups and be given insane stats. He discusses un-kill-able templars in large groups against solo/small-scale and how hard you need to use broken meta setups to be competitive in pvp. He also talks about campaigns/Imperial City population and lag.
  
  
• 15:50-17:32 Fengrush talks about Nightblades ganking. Stealth one shot ganking is an issue. He talks about the history of 1 shot imbalances with Camo Hunter, Snipe in older patches. Now its Viper and we have the same issue. He also mentions how you can spec a ton of damage and hit players with the Assassination ultimate for 14k damage (a screen shot deltia captured shown). Claims there is no counter-play to this insane high burst. Basically saying pvp is insane burst, un-kill-able heavy builds, shield stackers and that's it. No real in-between setups, everything has been homogenized to these types of builds because of poor balance and lack of set diversity.
  
  
• 17:32-19:19 Fengrush discusses lack of counter-play being introduced patch after patch. Discusses the end of 1vX gameplay. Discusses how pvp used to have satisfying gameplay but now pvp does not feel satisfying anymore. Feng discusses how cp was more of the core issue months ago but now its mostly gear set related (cp still being an issue). Fengrush talks about why people resort to ganking and why its so hard to play solo/small-scale.
  
  
• 19:19-20:54 Fengrush discusses the new sets and how 5/5/2 setup's have impacted the game. He discusses how these setups make it impossible to combat larger groups against uneven odds. He then discusses how he is inclined to use utility builds and abusive root/snare spamming abilities to tackle large groups (mentions why isn't there root immunity in the game).
  
  
• 20:55-22:27 Fengrush mentions the Destro ultimate will most likely get tweaked but become worthless. Mentions Viper will probably get nerfed as well and also become worthless. He discusses how some classes can completely neglect regen (most notably because of dark deal and battleroar/redguard dks).
  
  
• 22:30-23:45 Fengrush talks about how pvp is all zergs. Showcases a picture of a 40 man zerg doing whats called PvD (player vs door). Mentions we need new incentives and a new pvp group model potentially (example only 12 man groups aloud).
  
  
• 22:50-24:33 Fengrush talks about dueling and how its not good. He talks about how players do everything they can do to gain an advantage by using resource poisons and changing cp points before a duel. Dueling is filled with meta chasing and is not something that fits that competitive scene players are looking for with dueling. Proposes Dueling needs Rules.
  
  
• 24:35-27:32 Feng discusses how only a small section of Cryodill is used. Its ring around the rosy for emp keeps. He proposes that we need something more for Cryodill. We need less zergs and more 1vX/Small-scale pvp being enforced/encouraged.
  
  
• 27:32-33:00 Fengrush discusses Dynamic Ultimate generation and how it needs to be returned. Feng comments on ZOS_Rich stating it was broken and he agrees with him. He showcases a video of when it was broken and proposes we get a new tweaked Dynamic Ultimate generation. He talks about how Zergs are being encouraged and we keep loosing counter-play mechanics. He talks about how balance is never small balance changes and always massive changes. Eso never gets small tweaks to balance ability damage or sets, etc on a by weekly bases but only every month or 2 which is bad.
  
  
• 33:00-33:53 Feng talks about Battlegrounds and how its not what pvp players really want. He discusses how we really want a better Cryodill. He doesn't want terrible rewards for battlegrounds or cryodill end of campaign rewards.
  
  
• 34:00-41:20 Feng does an overview of what he has talked about. Talks about pvp as a whole and what we see today and some fixes that would make the pvp environment better. Mentions console players lag (Its true its bad. Ps4 player here). Feng goes off on ZOS for not utilizing the pvp community for help on balance changes. Discusses why would ZOS let the destro ultimate be un-block-able. Mentions hes sort of hopeful for the future, he hopes we get big balance changes. Feng finally ends his video talking about stealth ganking and believes it needs a revamp.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

PvP can be fun but it's terrible at the moment. What they need to do is hire a team that has worked on PvP titles before that were, well, good. I mean, the team now isn't horrible, I guess that would be to harsh because again, I've had a lot of fun in Cyro but you think there would be more changes and less problems after two near not zero changes and more problems. Eh, at least the terriblness is still enjoyable. Not sure how that makes any sense, maybe I am a sucker for punishment lol.

maxjapank

Didn't watch the whole vid. And thanks @GreenSoup2HoT for summing it up. I'm still having fun in Cryodiil, regardless of what has changed. You just sorta have to adapt. But due to proc sets, you are basically forced into using Heavy armor and/or pushing for high health. There really is no middle ground. You play to be a glass cannon burst build. Or you play to be a tanky build.

As for fighting being centered around the Emp keeps, it's always been that way. So I don't see any point talking about it or changing it. And people go where the fights are. If I'm not running with my guild, then I check the map to see where the swords are and head there. I find it fun to push back and forth from Nickel to Ash, Bleakers to Chal. Big battles are fun. Getting steam-rolled by a much larger force is not. But it is what it is, and when pushed to Glade, I'm fairly confident that every blue on the map will show up to defend.

What is not fun is lag. Oceanic players are used to playing with 250+ latency, but that tends to remain fairly stable during our timezone, even when yellow is pop-locked and blue is at 3 bars. And I don't know why NA prime time is so different. Oceanic can even be at 3 bars across the board, and things are fine. So maybe they need to reduce the population cap of the servers. Because if anything is killing pvp, it's lag. Fix lag, and I'm fairly confident that players would return.

olsborg

I'll be sitting on the edge of my seat while reading the next major patch notes, because those notes will decide if theres a point to continue playing or not. All of the issues that fengrush talks about in the video is pretty legitimate issues that contribute to a *** cyrodiil experience, but the issue that needs to be fixed asap is proccsets and heavy armor imo. (also destroult)

Cathexis

I think the part I disagree with substantially are towns and ic flags not being a success. I think they have had a great impact on PvP, although towns could be more enticing - towns are much more strategic and much less about small scale. The idea of making them zoned areas is a great idea potentially.

I do agree that a huge portions of the map have been wasted and I have suggested in the past that they add small scale objectives cluttering the map that contribute to the campaign, so that small scale players have meaningful objectives that contribute. But towns and IC flags was a step in the right direction.

There is a definitely a lot of room for creative improvement in pvp, but one thing I definitely think they need to do is have one imperial city, separate from cyrodiil player populations, accessed through any cyrodiil and gated by controlling home keeps.

Vorcil

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I'm going to sum up the whole video for everybody to make it a lot easier to in take for those who do not want to listen to 40 minutes of Fengrush.

I agree with pretty much everything Fengrush has said but not exactly in his words.

@olsborg Feel free to put my summery in your first post in a spoiler so players can read this instead of watching the video if they want to.

• 0:00-5:00 - Fengrush talks about the top 10 reasons to play article ZOS liked. Sums up how PvP is never mentioned.
  
  
• 5:00-8:10 - Fengrush discusses proc sets and how we used to have small percentage based proc sets and now we have crazy high percentage proc sets with very high burst damage (Velidrith, Tremorscale, Selene, Grotharr (not burst but very good in zerg play). All 10% or more). Needs to be toned down.
  
  
• 8:10-11:40 Fengrush talks about cryodill and how the dynamic of pvp plays out. Its either Zerg or Ganking. Pvp has resorted to only taking Emp keeps and a lot of the map is not used. Towns/IC district capture is just flag capture and didn't hit the mark for the small-scale minority. Its either 1-2 people or zergs taking Towns/Districts.
  
  
• 11:40-12:18 Fengrush talks about One Tamriel/Undaunted and how zos nailed it. Was an amazing patch.
  
  
• 12:20-15:50 Fengrush talks about the new sets. He talks about how you can wear 5/5/2 setups and be given insane stats. He discusses un-kill-able templars in large groups against solo/small-scale and how hard you need to use broken meta setups to be competitive in pvp. He also talks about campaigns/Imperial City population and lag.
  
  
• 15:50-17:32 Fengrush talks about Nightblades ganking. Stealth one shot ganking is an issue. He talks about the history of 1 shot imbalances with Camo Hunter, Snipe in older patches. Now its Viper and we have the same issue. He also mentions how you can spec a ton of damage and hit players with the Assassination ultimate for 14k damage (a screen shot deltia captured shown). Claims there is no counter-play to this insane high burst. Basically saying pvp is insane burst, un-kill-able heavy builds, shield stackers and that's it. No real in-between setups, everything has been homogenized to these types of builds because of poor balance and lack of set diversity.
  
  
• 17:32-19:19 Fengrush discusses lack of counter-play being introduced patch after patch. Discusses the end of 1vX gameplay. Discusses how pvp used to have satisfying gameplay but now pvp does not feel satisfying anymore. Feng discusses how cp was more of the core issue months ago but now its mostly gear set related (cp still being an issue). Fengrush talks about why people resort to ganking and why its so hard to play solo/small-scale.
  
  
• 19:19-20:54 Fengrush discusses the new sets and how 5/5/2 setup's have impacted the game. He discusses how these setups make it impossible to combat larger groups against uneven odds. He then discusses how he is inclined to use utility builds and abusive root/snare spamming abilities to tackle large groups (mentions why isn't there root immunity in the game).
  
  
• 20:55-22:27 Fengrush mentions the Destro ultimate will most likely get tweaked but become worthless. Mentions Viper will probably get nerfed as well and also become worthless. He discusses how some classes can completely neglect regen (most notably because of dark deal and battleroar/redguard dks).
  
  
• 22:30-23:45 Fengrush talks about how pvp is all zergs. Showcases a picture of a 40 man zerg doing whats called PvD (player vs door). Mentions we need new incentives and a new pvp group model potentially (example only 12 man groups aloud).
  
  
• 22:50-24:33 Fengrush talks about dueling and how its not good. He talks about how players do everything they can do to gain an advantage by using resource poisons and changing cp points before a duel. Dueling is filled with meta chasing and is not something that fits that competitive scene players are looking for with dueling. Proposes Dueling needs Rules.
  
  
• 24:35-27:32 Feng discusses how only a small section of Cryodill is used. Its ring around the rosy for emp keeps. He proposes that we need something more for Cryodill. We need less zergs and more 1vX/Small-scale pvp being enforced/encouraged.
  
  
• 27:32-33:00 Fengrush discusses Dynamic Ultimate generation and how it needs to be returned. Feng comments on ZOS_Rich stating it was broken and he agrees with him. He showcases a video of when it was broken and proposes we get a new tweaked Dynamic Ultimate generation. He talks about how Zergs are being encouraged and we keep loosing counter-play mechanics. He talks about how balance is never small balance changes and always massive changes. Eso never gets small tweaks to balance ability damage or sets, etc on a by weekly bases but only every month or 2 which is bad.
  
  
• 33:00-33:53 Feng talks about Battlegrounds and how its not what pvp players really want. He discusses how we really want a better Cryodill. He doesn't want terrible rewards for battlegrounds or cryodill end of campaign rewards.
  
  
• 34:00-41:20 Feng does an overview of what he has talked about. Talks about pvp as a whole and what we see today and some fixes that would make the pvp environment better. Mentions console players lag (Its true its bad. Ps4 player here). Feng goes off on ZOS for not utilizing the pvp community for help on balance changes. Discusses why would ZOS let the destro ultimate be un-block-able. Mentions hes sort of hopeful for the future, he hopes we get big balance changes. Feng finally ends his video talking about stealth ganking and believes it needs a revamp.

]I'm going to sum up the whole postfor everybody to make it a lot easier to in take for those who do not want to read 40 paragraphs.

GreenSoup gives an overview of what Fengrush talks about, and that is how rubbish pvp is.

GreenSoup2HoT

@Vorcil Did it take you 40 minutes to read all those paragraphs? Surely it would take only 3-6 minutes depending your reading comprehension. I was just trying to do the thread a favor. Nobody wants to watch someone rant for 40 minutes.

Is there an issue with me trying to help out?

Myrcy

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@Vorcil Did it take you 40 minutes to read all those paragraphs? Surely it would take only 3-6 minutes depending your reading comprehension. I was just trying to do the thread a favor. Nobody wants to watch someone rant for 40 minutes.

Is there an issue with me trying to help out?

I appreciated it. Thank you!

Vorcil

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@Vorcil Did it take you 40 minutes to read all those paragraphs? Surely it would take only 3-6 minutes depending your reading comprehension. I was just trying to do the thread a favor. Nobody wants to watch someone rant for 40 minutes.

Is there an issue with me trying to help out?

Yes, but I am quite tall

Vaoh

@FENGRUSH is correct on literally everything he said. He always has been.

I've found that whenever I start to really break down the core issues of PvP, all I do is start to sound exactly like Fengrush.

It's really screwed up too. I used to be this great, awesome 1vXer. I'd literally sit in the center of Alessia bridge doing the pray emote and guard it against 10+ to 1 odds all the time. There was a point in time where I almost named a character the "Sentinel of Alessia Bridge" just for fun since I had created a real name for myself as being that dangerous. No other PvP could beat ESO's for me on console.

And that's the thing. I had tons of fun being so great. Well....

That gameplay is dead.

I have resorted to occationally running a Sorc Negate tank build for utility in small groups or PvE. That's why I decided to solo vWGT and vCoS. The PvP aspect of the game (which was the best) has gone to ruin, and that was the only way I could challenge myself and have fun again. But now what? There's literally nothing left for me and PvP (the originally intended "endgame") is unbelievably neglected.

So gg ZOS.... I have been only seldomly playing ESO now. You've ruined my incentive to play along with innumerable other players who used to enjoy PvP.

DragonBound

I did not watch the entire video but are people forgetting that eso is meant to be more of a pve game then pvp? Balance will be more around pvp unless they seperate the skills on pvp grounds like they did in wow which can be costly.

Vaoh

CosmicSoul wrote: »

I did not watch the entire video but are people forgetting that eso is meant to be more of a pve game then pvp? Balance will be more around pvp unless they seperate the skills on pvp grounds like they did in wow which can be costly.

It is both PvE and PvP, not mostly one and partly the other.

The selling point of ESO at launch used to be PvP, where PvE was a buggy mess.

Now the selling point is PvE, where PvP is a ruined, imbalanced mess.

I'm hoping they can fix PvP but I have little hope for it. ZOS may have released One Tamriel now but it seems to be neglecting its PvP to the point of no return now.

Valencer

Cathexis wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

"When everyone can be a house, it comes down to numbers", "People just put up block and wait for reinforcements"

PvP meta since Dark Brotherhood in a nutshell. All the ridiculous new gear options they added with 1T are just icing on the cake, really.

Maybe Im the only one, but for me personally it really started going downhill after DB hit, with all the stupid heavy armour buffs that were done with that update.

Agreed, the heavy armor buff was over the top to say the least. What needs done is something like:

Remove wrath or remove the ability to use shuffle unless you have 5 medium armor slotted (same for the other armor skills) or both. The constitution passive is also a tad op especially if youre using blackrose.

Breaking heavy armor again is not the answer. The reason heavy armor was buffed was because it was useless before. Medium is still just as good as heavy if you build correctly - it has a mobility orrientation. You get high flat damage, lots of crit, flat stam regen, dodge and run speed, and if you sacrifice offensive stats you can still take a pounding. Heavy is a lot more contingent on remaining in combat and getting pounded on for offensive bonuses. Before you could sit in medium and be able to take more damage and deal more damage than heavy, because damage and crit also contribute heavily to healing. Yes, black rose is a good set, but it isnt game breaking.

The problem is not heavy armor, the problem is you have class abilities that compound with heavy armor that make certain classes stupid tanky (which is why most dedicated groups now run templars and dks).

Gonna have to disagree with you there. Heavy armour wasnt useless before, it was just very specialised and not every spec could make it work.

Now it's a no-brainer for every stamina spec out there except maybe gankblade. Medium armour is also simply not viable anymore due to the insane burst people can pull off with proc sets. My stam DK has more crit, weapon damage, healing and overall sustain (although in a different way) in heavy than in medium... this is just wrong on so many levels.

You'd honestly also be crazy not to use heavy armour on any magicka char that doesnt rely on damage shields. You get enough stamina sustain to reliably CC break constantly and you can even spec your character so they can block an insane amount under constant pressure, since constitution restores stamina even while blocking. It's the reason why heavy armour templar healers are such an enormous pain in the ass to deal with right now, even if theyre bad.

White wabbit

Not a fan of streamers but hit the nail on the head

Armitas

jarydf wrote: »

Wrobel and Fengrush are on the same side. Both want the game to be fun for people playing pvp. But this is a hard thing to achieve. It is always easier to be the guy complaining than the guys that actually have to fix it and both of them know it.

That developer released this new proctatotation meta. Balance is a hard thing to achieve but there is nothing hard about not doing obvious harm. The consequences of these sets were obvious, it's effects were predictable by anyone with PvP experience. IMO there is no good way to view the majority of the work he has been doing lately. Fengrush I know cares about his work, but I don't know what is happening with the other guy. I have tried to imagine a good explanation but there really isn't one that can excuse this current situation.

____
Another spot on assessment from Fengrush.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

It's true that pvp was a huge selling point. Just remember how they advertised the huge battles. Though that was the perception of the game not its reality. So I'm inclined to agree, based on evidence via playing the actual game, that what was advertised has little bearing on reality. The game 100% focuses more on pve. I've been playing since beta and the amount of focus on PvE compared to Pvp is drastically different, clearly favoring PvE.

Here is an idea. PvE you have whatever sets you have available. For PvP each alliance gets a choice between their factions light, medium, or heavy armor. There are no set bonuses. Light is for magicka users and you naturally get the armor bonus from the light armor and that's it. So on and so forth for the other armors. In the end battles come down to skill not gear. Other games have done this and all was happy.

Armitas

Heavy armor is suppose to be a damage/survival compromise but that compromise is mostly avoided for stamina builds due to the way physical weapons work.The main problem with heavy armor over medium armor is the fact that 100% of physical penetration comes from the weapon. That is not the case with an elemental staff, you only get half that penetration and only for staff skills. Penetration is by far the greatest element for causing large amounts of damage and there is nothing that inhibits it from carrying right over to heavy armor. Take 10% penetration off the weapon and put it on medium and I think we will see it balance out.

SneaK

Above all else for me - console lag. It's atrocious. I have never seen a game lag this bad, AOL dial-up connections circa 1990 included.

Proc sets are very bad too. When the fights are won 70/30 because of your gear and not your skill, that's a major issue.

Incentive to play the map is absent from PvP as a whole. Something as simple as adding significant AP gains to Cyro bounties would help drive objectives in Cyrodiil. I've proposed this in the past. Also, they perhaps need to rework how AP is gained. AP farming hurts Cyrodiil, whether you want to admit that or not, it's actually the major contributor to the shallowness of PvP in ESO.

RazorCaltrops

CosmicSoul wrote: »

I did not watch the entire video but are people forgetting that eso is meant to be more of a pve game then pvp? Balance will be more around pvp unless they seperate the skills on pvp grounds like they did in wow which can be costly.

There are many people who do both. And in the current state of PVP this kind of people are stuck in PVE only, which makes the game boring and one sided. The primary problem is not the skills, it's stacking proc sets + Heavy Armor which gives absurdly more sustain and survivability compared to Medium and Light.

Fixing this problems will not ruin PVE. Playing this game for 1,5 years and it never did, but the current situation is unacceptable if you also do PVP. And the worst thing is, we only get an answer every 3-4 months.

olsborg

RazorCaltrops wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

I did not watch the entire video but are people forgetting that eso is meant to be more of a pve game then pvp? Balance will be more around pvp unless they seperate the skills on pvp grounds like they did in wow which can be costly.

There are many people who do both. And in the current state of PVP this kind of people are stuck in PVE only, which makes the game boring and one sided. The primary problem is not the skills, it's stacking proc sets + Heavy Armor which gives absurdly more sustain and survivability compared to Medium and Light.

Fixing this problems will not ruin PVE. Playing this game for 1,5 years and it never did, but the current situation is unacceptable if you also do PVP. And the worst thing is, we only get an answer every 3-4 months.

They have been awfully quiet for too long regarding the state of pvp atm. They managed to make pvp worse with one tamriel and tbh I think everyone who pvps daily deserves an apology ^^

RinaldoGandolphi

@FENGRUSH absolutely nailed it about stealth being broken

I submitted feedback numerous times during the beta about broken stealth. It was possible to one shot folks back in the 1.x days King of Thieves and Murdo were the 1st to perfect it back in the day with the Lethal Arrow nonsense days to follow.

Cyrodiil is full of Nightblades and stealth gankers because it's broken. Why actually pvp when you can just one shot people...the numbers and math is completely broken and it needs to be fixed.

Furthermore, heavy armor Templars are pretty much impossible to kill they will just hold block, heal to full, can't burst them due to Reactive armor and the Morph of Rune Focus give them a 43% reduction in damage while CC you won't be able to do enough burst damage to kill them...the only counter to them is root spam and Negate with poisons which is just broken AF

I agree Fengrush, it's doubtful stealth is fixed even without proc sets folks will still be Insta killed by them as it's easy to do the math and get an absurd amount of damage that will pretty much insta gib anyone who isn't a DK or Templar tank with their right mouse button tapped down

Sureshawt

I agree with some of what he says and disagree with other points

First, the game is supposed to be about massive battles (so called 'zergs'). This is not a battleground or arena style environment where numbers are controlled. It is by design supposed to be epic and unpredictable.

Also in my experience there is action all over the map (on Trueflame anyway) so I disagree with the contention that only emp keeps are being contested. Action at the recently introduced capture towns is common as well as the keeps near these towns. Also there is plenty of scroll capture action going on as well. So this contention is just false and I'm sure ZoS has stats on this as well.

Dynamic ultimate gain was removed and for good reason and should not return.

I pretty much agree with the rest but even with all the issues I still have a blast in PvP which is the best of any currently available MMO imho.

DragonBound

Vaoh wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

I did not watch the entire video but are people forgetting that eso is meant to be more of a pve game then pvp? Balance will be more around pvp unless they seperate the skills on pvp grounds like they did in wow which can be costly.

It is both PvE and PvP, not mostly one and partly the other.

The selling point of ESO at launch used to be PvP, where PvE was a buggy mess.

Now the selling point is PvE, where PvP is a ruined, imbalanced mess.

I'm hoping they can fix PvP but I have little hope for it. ZOS may have released One Tamriel now but it seems to be neglecting its PvP to the point of no return now.

No the selling point is its pve, and always has been, no mmorpg can have both without splitting the skills on pvp grounds.

Kutsuu

Vaoh wrote: »

@FENGRUSH is correct on literally everything he said. He always has been.

I've found that whenever I start to really break down the core issues of PvP, all I do is start to sound exactly like Fengrush.

It's really screwed up too. I used to be this great, awesome 1vXer. I'd literally sit in the center of Alessia bridge doing the pray emote and guard it against 10+ to 1 odds all the time. There was a point in time where I almost named a character the "Sentinel of Alessia Bridge" just for fun since I had created a real name for myself as being that dangerous. No other PvP could beat ESO's for me on console.

And that's the thing. I had tons of fun being so great. Well....

That gameplay is dead.

I have resorted to occationally running a Sorc Negate tank build for utility in small groups or PvE. That's why I decided to solo vWGT and vCoS. The PvP aspect of the game (which was the best) has gone to ruin, and that was the only way I could challenge myself and have fun again. But now what? There's literally nothing left for me and PvP (the originally intended "endgame") is unbelievably neglected.

So gg ZOS.... I have been only seldomly playing ESO now. You've ruined my incentive to play along with innumerable other players who used to enjoy PvP.

Yeah, you should totally be able to stand in the middle of a highly trafficked bridge and kill 10+ people at a time with ease. That's the kind of gameplay they need to support.

Seriously though, 1vX has almost always been an exercise in finding players who are less skilled/geared than you and crushing them with superior tactics (LOS, kiting, etc). Even one player on your level jumps into the fight and you are in trouble. That is, aside from some insanely overpowered builds that allowed you to do it to anyone who wasn't running your build. 4-10 ult cost Batsorc/DK comes to mind.

Paneross

Minalan wrote: »

You know what the only real fix for this is?

CP200 gear. Update the Craftable and the overland sets.

Don't update the monster, dungeon, or proc sets until they are all completely scrapped and revamped from the bottom up.

You may be right...however I among many would leave this game.

Took me ages to get gold VO jewelry. If that suddenly became worthless I'm leaving the game.

Jaronking

Man I miss 1vX you can still do it buts hard them it was before.I agree with what @FENGRUSH said but @Zos won't listen they think they know best.

Izaki

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

jarydf wrote: »

Wrobel and Fengrush are on the same side. Both want the game to be fun for people playing pvp. But this is a hard thing to achieve. It is always easier to be the guy complaining than the guys that actually have to fix it and both of them know it.

When you have problems that you don't know how to deal with what do you do? You ask around. I'm sure that if ZOS was co-operating with the community then stuff will be much better. 41 minute video to touch on the problems in PvP. That just tells you that something is really wrong. I support ZOS and I know they work hard, but I also know that they can be more effective and do better.

Fengrush has so much more common sense than Wrobel it isn't funny. It doesn't take a genius to take a look at tremor scale and viper and say 'this is ridiculous, fix it'. He called it out a long time ago. Even made a video. They didn't listen.

As for 'asking around' they do that every update, it's called the PTS forums. Again, we told them that these things were broken and over the top. Nothing changed. I don't know how we can be any more obvious. Last patch there were a thousand malubeth threads, a bunch of people even renamed their characters 'nerf malubeth already' and some were crowned emperor. I don't know how much more *** obvious we can be and they still don't listen.

In the end, some fool at ZOS thought that they knew better than the rest of us, and they put these sets in and made these changed regardless.

Anyone remember Wrobel's "Sorc Change" thread? These changes are all conscious choices, not a series of accidents. Stop giving ZOS more credit than they deserve when they do a terrible job.

@Minalan As far as I'm concerned, Wrobel was right about everything he said on that thread and we were all wrong.
Dark Exchange worked out pretty sweet, some even say OP.
Surge is amazing.
Hurricane is amazing, a lot of people say that its a little too good.
Negate is great.

I also remember that Feng made a video on that thread and he too was wrong. Who cares? Its happened to all of us.
Bottom line is that ZOS know what they are doing better than all of us.

Most of the stuff that was going on in the PTS forums was about Destro ultimate being crap and the 2H ultimate being OP. Not many threads were talking proc sets, especially Tremorscale. Which is why we have our current state of PvP. So its not only their fault, it is also our fault for not making them aware of the problem when it first occurred.

You gotta give credit where credit is due.


Just to clear this up, I'm not defending ZOS, I'm saying that they can do better and it has already happened before. Now lets just hope that next patch will fix all this mess.

zuto40

LegacyDM wrote: »

I agree with him on most points but disagree on 3.

1. 1vx. No class should be allowed to 1vx. 1vx does not equal balance. If your skill level is so good that you can 1vx potatoes, fine, whatever. If that's what floats your boat and you enjoy great. However, This game should not be about 1vx so that streamers can boost their egos, make more money, and promote highlight reels. (Not saying he does that but I know some streamers that are like that). All classes need to be balanced so 1vx becomes nearly impossible. unless your fighting potatoes 1vx shouldn't be possible. in a properly balanced scenerio, a 1vxer would die everytime. You know what's more annoying than stamina ganking nbs? 1vxers running around rocks, cat walking under Alyssia bridge, blazing shield 77k builds, or sorc shield stacking builds bunny hopping in Alyssia bridge cubby hole. That's not skill that's trolling.

2. Stealth. He's not separating magicka nb from stamina nb. He's not thinking about the implications of what a nerf or change to stealth would mean for magicka. I agree that stamina nb is problematic. However, In the current meta, magicka nb are In a tough spot. Nerf stealth/cloak and you've just killed magicka nbs. There are too many counters to stealth and cloak as is and he proposes more or significant change in a negative way. His rhetoric implies all nbs are problematic. We magicka rely on stealth and magicka to survive.

3. Proc sets. I don't believe proc sets are as big of a problem as people are making them out to be. I agree, the percentages are too high for some and some need to be reworked. But there are a lot of proc sets that are fine. A lot of proc sets are fun to play and theory craft with. Focus on the problem child's like he mentioned but leave the others alone. I hope ZOS takes a descretionary approach and looks at each individually rather than a 1 size fits all nerf. I run a dps build that counters proc sets fairly well. Is it a perfect solution? No. Do I still die to procs? Yes. But I hold my own and procs don't bug me because I do a good job of mitigation and countering. Why is it so hard for others to do the same? I think people have migrated to tank builds because they can't think outside the box on figuring out ways to mitigate proc sets. I guess I'll be in a good spot when they get nerfed.

1.1vX is only possible against players of lesser skill unless you get very lucky, and no using LoS is not trolling its called using your brain

2. There are too many counters to cloak yes but the only problem with stam nightblade is the proc sets, ganking is much harder without them

3. I do fairly well against proc sets on my medium armor build, i simply anticipate the proc by counting down the time since its last hit and block, although its the ganking with proc sets that get me, dying instantly from viper and veli is not really fun since i cant do anything to counter it from stealth

Minalan

The only thing I disagree on is that every ultimate should be

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

jarydf wrote: »

Wrobel and Fengrush are on the same side. Both want the game to be fun for people playing pvp. But this is a hard thing to achieve. It is always easier to be the guy complaining than the guys that actually have to fix it and both of them know it.

When you have problems that you don't know how to deal with what do you do? You ask around. I'm sure that if ZOS was co-operating with the community then stuff will be much better. 41 minute video to touch on the problems in PvP. That just tells you that something is really wrong. I support ZOS and I know they work hard, but I also know that they can be more effective and do better.

Fengrush has so much more common sense than Wrobel it isn't funny. It doesn't take a genius to take a look at tremor scale and viper and say 'this is ridiculous, fix it'. He called it out a long time ago. Even made a video. They didn't listen.

As for 'asking around' they do that every update, it's called the PTS forums. Again, we told them that these things were broken and over the top. Nothing changed. I don't know how we can be any more obvious. Last patch there were a thousand malubeth threads, a bunch of people even renamed their characters 'nerf malubeth already' and some were crowned emperor. I don't know how much more *** obvious we can be and they still don't listen.

In the end, some fool at ZOS thought that they knew better than the rest of us, and they put these sets in and made these changed regardless.

Anyone remember Wrobel's "Sorc Change" thread? These changes are all conscious choices, not a series of accidents. Stop giving ZOS more credit than they deserve when they do a terrible job.

@Minalan As far as I'm concerned, Wrobel was right about everything he said on that thread and we were all wrong.
Dark Exchange worked out pretty sweet, some even say OP.
Surge is amazing.
Hurricane is amazing, a lot of people say that its a little too good.
Negate is great.

I also remember that Feng made a video on that thread and he too was wrong. Who cares? Its happened to all of us.
Bottom line is that ZOS know what they are doing better than all of us.

Most of the stuff that was going on in the PTS forums was about Destro ultimate being crap and the 2H ultimate being OP. Not many threads were talking proc sets, especially Tremorscale. Which is why we have our current state of PvP. So its not only their fault, it is also our fault for not making them aware of the problem when it first occurred.

You gotta give credit where credit is due.


Just to clear this up, I'm not defending ZOS, I'm saying that they can do better and it has already happened before. Now lets just hope that next patch will fix all this mess.

Are you saying that sorcs were perfectly fine during Dark Brotherhood and Hist? I've gotta sort of disagree there. It sucked for sorcs, and Wrobel's post was a laughingstock.

The changes for 1T have really helped us some. Lich jewelry that doesn't cost 2.5 million. Spinner set. Witch brew. Unblockable curse. The new max magicka monster damage sets. Let's not even get into the Ultimates.

I wouldn't say we're 'totally balanced' now, but the balance patch (13) only needs a few quality of life tweaks instead of an entire book of fixes. Take a look at light armor. Fix the toggle skills like they did with mage light. Reduce the cost on destro skills by 20% like every single Stamina weapon line. Take a look at sorc passives and compare them to nightblades and templars, make a couple of small changes here and there.