The Real Problem With Mag vs Stam

Lord-Otto

Zurxii wrote: »

Considering I've played this game since release, and beaten pretty much everyone on my console I've dueled at least 50/50, etc..I'm about 100% sure I'm not in the l2p stages, don't get me wrong eye is great, but when Stam users begin to complain that they are getting killed by eye and it needs a nerf; THAT is an issue, considering if they played their class well, and knew what they were doing, they wouldn't die. However being a mag sorc if I'm not playing at 100% and let my shields down once, incap > viper > SA > veli I get glocked.

And don't forget how you can easily die by an invisible nightblade in a second without ever seeing it coming. Pretty fair dieing to a telegraphed channeled ultimate, if you ask me.

Lokey0024

Am i to late for the nerf sorc thread?

arkansas_ESO

Sharee wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I think stam dominance is a bit overstated. They are potentially stronger and very dangerous in the hands of a sword & shield player who knows what they are doing (seriously, it's way more dangerous than the 2H...no idea why more stam players are sticking with 2H main but whatever), but the issue I mostly have is with the simultaneous proc nonsense. Assuming zoS deals with this, then the problem will largely go away.

No. We would still have the problems of how dodge scales with multiple opponents. How stam builds are more mobile and can cc break more easily. How weapon damage is easier to stack than spell damage and how weaving/animation cancelling is better on melee. How gapclosers prevent ranged combat and how telegraphed magicka burst is.
There was a big disparity before proc sets, and after the removal of them, it will still be there.
=(

Don't forget the non-existence of stamina equivalent of silence that disables all your abilities, or eclipse that reflects all your single target attacks back at yourself.

If only there was a melee version of DK wings. Imagine reflecting somebody's Wrecking Blow

Sharee

Minalan wrote: »

What? Stamina sorcs aren't using negate? This is news to me, because it looks to me like that's all they know how to do. Streak, negate, then dizzy spam when you can't heal or shield up. It's effective as hell.

I'm not saying stam sorcs are not using negate, i'm saying that there isn't an ability that would do to stamina skills what negate does to magicka ones.

Mojmir

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Am i to late for the nerf sorc thread?

Minalan

Zurxii wrote: »

Considering I've played this game since release, and beaten pretty much everyone on my console I've dueled at least 50/50, etc..I'm about 100% sure I'm not in the l2p stages, don't get me wrong eye is great, but when Stam users begin to complain that they are getting killed by eye and it needs a nerf; THAT is an issue, considering if they played their class well, and knew what they were doing, they wouldn't die. However being a mag sorc if I'm not playing at 100% and let my shields down once, incap > viper > SA > veli I get glocked.

This is a big part of the problem.

You take someone who hasn't died to a magblade or magicka sorc in over SIX MONTHS and this new ult keeps killing them. Of course the forums are going to fill up with tears.

Izaki

Joy_Division wrote: »

I think stam dominance is a bit overstated. They are potentially stronger and very dangerous in the hands of a sword & shield player who knows what they are doing (seriously, it's way more dangerous than the 2H...no idea why more stam players are sticking with 2H main but whatever), but the issue I mostly have is with the simultaneous proc nonsense. Assuming zoS deals with this, then the problem will largely go away.

Hey Joy I think I found something we agree on for the first time!

Lord-Otto

That's good for you two, but if you look up pre-OT threads, you'll discover that stam was already far superior without proc sets.

Zurxii

Agreed^ It's the fact Stam can stack MUCH more weapon dmg with little to no sustain at all, while mag has to stack more sustain and sacrifice a TON of damage. For example, recently mag sorcs (I'm using mag sorc as example a lot because I main it) have had to stack more sustain due to 6s shields. However Stam doesn't need to sacrifice any damage whatsoever for sustain.

LegacyDM

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I think stam dominance is a bit overstated. They are potentially stronger and very dangerous in the hands of a sword & shield player who knows what they are doing (seriously, it's way more dangerous than the 2H...no idea why more stam players are sticking with 2H main but whatever), but the issue I mostly have is with the simultaneous proc nonsense. Assuming zoS deals with this, then the problem will largely go away.

No. We would still have the problems of how dodge scales with multiple opponents. How stam builds are more mobile and can cc break more easily. How weapon damage is easier to stack than spell damage and how weaving/animation cancelling is better on melee. How gapclosers prevent ranged combat and how telegraphed magicka burst is.
There was a big disparity before proc sets, and after the removal of them, it will still be there.
=(

Yes. I play magicka and I generally don't have an issue with that stuff. Before the proc sets, I felt I could defeat a stamina player in a fair fight so I don't agree there was a big disparity.

Your a magplar... Magplars are OP even before the new proc sets...

Lord-Otto

LegacyDM wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I think stam dominance is a bit overstated. They are potentially stronger and very dangerous in the hands of a sword & shield player who knows what they are doing (seriously, it's way more dangerous than the 2H...no idea why more stam players are sticking with 2H main but whatever), but the issue I mostly have is with the simultaneous proc nonsense. Assuming zoS deals with this, then the problem will largely go away.

No. We would still have the problems of how dodge scales with multiple opponents. How stam builds are more mobile and can cc break more easily. How weapon damage is easier to stack than spell damage and how weaving/animation cancelling is better on melee. How gapclosers prevent ranged combat and how telegraphed magicka burst is.
There was a big disparity before proc sets, and after the removal of them, it will still be there.
=(

Yes. I play magicka and I generally don't have an issue with that stuff. Before the proc sets, I felt I could defeat a stamina player in a fair fight so I don't agree there was a big disparity.

Your a magplar... Magplars are OP even before the new proc sets...

Waitwhat? Really? I specifically asked Joy for that! That's disappointing.
=/

Wreuntzylla

Vigor.

Joy_Division

LegacyDM wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I think stam dominance is a bit overstated. They are potentially stronger and very dangerous in the hands of a sword & shield player who knows what they are doing (seriously, it's way more dangerous than the 2H...no idea why more stam players are sticking with 2H main but whatever), but the issue I mostly have is with the simultaneous proc nonsense. Assuming zoS deals with this, then the problem will largely go away.

No. We would still have the problems of how dodge scales with multiple opponents. How stam builds are more mobile and can cc break more easily. How weapon damage is easier to stack than spell damage and how weaving/animation cancelling is better on melee. How gapclosers prevent ranged combat and how telegraphed magicka burst is.
There was a big disparity before proc sets, and after the removal of them, it will still be there.
=(

Yes. I play magicka and I generally don't have an issue with that stuff. Before the proc sets, I felt I could defeat a stamina player in a fair fight so I don't agree there was a big disparity.

Your a magplar... Magplars are OP even before the new proc sets...

Templar: Alliance rank 35

Sorcerer: Alliance rank 37

DK: Alliance rank: 25

NB: Alliance rank 14.

Try again. Thanks for playing.

As long as you don't do something silly like try and mDK without being a perma block enemy PuG magnet, generally you'll be OK in Cyrodiil until hit by simultaneous procs.

Joy_Division

Lord-Otto wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I think stam dominance is a bit overstated. They are potentially stronger and very dangerous in the hands of a sword & shield player who knows what they are doing (seriously, it's way more dangerous than the 2H...no idea why more stam players are sticking with 2H main but whatever), but the issue I mostly have is with the simultaneous proc nonsense. Assuming zoS deals with this, then the problem will largely go away.

No. We would still have the problems of how dodge scales with multiple opponents. How stam builds are more mobile and can cc break more easily. How weapon damage is easier to stack than spell damage and how weaving/animation cancelling is better on melee. How gapclosers prevent ranged combat and how telegraphed magicka burst is.
There was a big disparity before proc sets, and after the removal of them, it will still be there.
=(

Yes. I play magicka and I generally don't have an issue with that stuff. Before the proc sets, I felt I could defeat a stamina player in a fair fight so I don't agree there was a big disparity.

Your a magplar... Magplars are OP even before the new proc sets...

Waitwhat? Really? I specifically asked Joy for that! That's disappointing.
=/

Well, people who do not listen to or do not believe in what I say usually are disappointed

Edidet for clarity

Alucardo

You've obviously never fought a heavy armor mdk or a magblade that opens with eye of flame.

Biro123

Zurxii wrote: »

Next, Stam builds now have the option to stack more damage, and resistances with little to no sustain what-so-ever. Say a Stam dk runs 5 Black Rose 5Viper 2Tremor. That dk will have hardly any recov, and be carried in sustain by a simple black rose proc (Yes I know dks also have igneous and battle roar but a Stam sorc/stamplar can do it just as well with under 1k regen) I wouldn't personally mind that Stam builds could sustain with under 1k regen, but they don't even have to attempt sustain, they can simply spam everything they have repeatedly without even heavy-ing. ?

That is so untrue. Can't really speak for DK - but a stamsorc with this setup can definitely NOT spam everything repeatedly. They have to regularly weave in heavy attacks and regularly get dark-deals off. And that is with the redguard stam return passive too. I'm not even going to mention trying to do anything at range with this setup.

I play both stam and magicka (mag at the mo) - so I don't have any axe to grind for one side or the other.

Nser

des ultim hit for 6k+ hard to get out of it ,and banner hit 1.5k to 2k easy to just move out
meh what a balance. ☻

Lord-Otto

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I think stam dominance is a bit overstated. They are potentially stronger and very dangerous in the hands of a sword & shield player who knows what they are doing (seriously, it's way more dangerous than the 2H...no idea why more stam players are sticking with 2H main but whatever), but the issue I mostly have is with the simultaneous proc nonsense. Assuming zoS deals with this, then the problem will largely go away.

No. We would still have the problems of how dodge scales with multiple opponents. How stam builds are more mobile and can cc break more easily. How weapon damage is easier to stack than spell damage and how weaving/animation cancelling is better on melee. How gapclosers prevent ranged combat and how telegraphed magicka burst is.
There was a big disparity before proc sets, and after the removal of them, it will still be there.
=(

Yes. I play magicka and I generally don't have an issue with that stuff. Before the proc sets, I felt I could defeat a stamina player in a fair fight so I don't agree there was a big disparity.

Your a magplar... Magplars are OP even before the new proc sets...

Waitwhat? Really? I specifically asked Joy for that! That's disappointing.
=/

Well, people who do not listen to or do not believe in what I say usually are disappointed...

Calm down, Cowboy. I was assuming for a moment you were only a magplar, which is OP. You're not, so... cool.
Still disagree with you.
=P

Master_Kas

Fire rune vs Trap beast/rearming trap

Mag vs Stam

Joy_Division

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I think stam dominance is a bit overstated. They are potentially stronger and very dangerous in the hands of a sword & shield player who knows what they are doing (seriously, it's way more dangerous than the 2H...no idea why more stam players are sticking with 2H main but whatever), but the issue I mostly have is with the simultaneous proc nonsense. Assuming zoS deals with this, then the problem will largely go away.

No. We would still have the problems of how dodge scales with multiple opponents. How stam builds are more mobile and can cc break more easily. How weapon damage is easier to stack than spell damage and how weaving/animation cancelling is better on melee. How gapclosers prevent ranged combat and how telegraphed magicka burst is.
There was a big disparity before proc sets, and after the removal of them, it will still be there.
=(

Yes. I play magicka and I generally don't have an issue with that stuff. Before the proc sets, I felt I could defeat a stamina player in a fair fight so I don't agree there was a big disparity.

Your a magplar... Magplars are OP even before the new proc sets...

Waitwhat? Really? I specifically asked Joy for that! That's disappointing.
=/

Well, people who do not listen to or do not believe in what I say usually are disappointed...

Calm down, Cowboy. I was assuming for a moment you were only a magplar, which is OP. You're not, so... cool.
Still disagree with you.
=P

Twas a joke!

Minalan

Joy_Division wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I think stam dominance is a bit overstated. They are potentially stronger and very dangerous in the hands of a sword & shield player who knows what they are doing (seriously, it's way more dangerous than the 2H...no idea why more stam players are sticking with 2H main but whatever), but the issue I mostly have is with the simultaneous proc nonsense. Assuming zoS deals with this, then the problem will largely go away.

No. We would still have the problems of how dodge scales with multiple opponents. How stam builds are more mobile and can cc break more easily. How weapon damage is easier to stack than spell damage and how weaving/animation cancelling is better on melee. How gapclosers prevent ranged combat and how telegraphed magicka burst is.
There was a big disparity before proc sets, and after the removal of them, it will still be there.
=(

Yes. I play magicka and I generally don't have an issue with that stuff. Before the proc sets, I felt I could defeat a stamina player in a fair fight so I don't agree there was a big disparity.

Your a magplar... Magplars are OP even before the new proc sets...

Templar: Alliance rank 35

Sorcerer: Alliance rank 37

DK: Alliance rank: 25

NB: Alliance rank 14.

Try again. Thanks for playing.

As long as you don't do something silly like try and mDK without being a perma block enemy PuG magnet, generally you'll be OK in Cyrodiil until hit by simultaneous procs.

Id love to hear your setup, because magsorc has been a pretty miserable experience since the DB patch.

Sure you can do 'ok' and score a few kills, but you're working a LOT harder and you have to be twice the player than your average stamina sorc to perform at the same level.

Magicka ability costs have to go down across the board significantly. That's what's killing us. Let me pick up two DPS sets and sustain like a Stamina user and we'll be balanced.

Lord-Otto

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I think stam dominance is a bit overstated. They are potentially stronger and very dangerous in the hands of a sword & shield player who knows what they are doing (seriously, it's way more dangerous than the 2H...no idea why more stam players are sticking with 2H main but whatever), but the issue I mostly have is with the simultaneous proc nonsense. Assuming zoS deals with this, then the problem will largely go away.

No. We would still have the problems of how dodge scales with multiple opponents. How stam builds are more mobile and can cc break more easily. How weapon damage is easier to stack than spell damage and how weaving/animation cancelling is better on melee. How gapclosers prevent ranged combat and how telegraphed magicka burst is.
There was a big disparity before proc sets, and after the removal of them, it will still be there.
=(

Yes. I play magicka and I generally don't have an issue with that stuff. Before the proc sets, I felt I could defeat a stamina player in a fair fight so I don't agree there was a big disparity.

Your a magplar... Magplars are OP even before the new proc sets...

Waitwhat? Really? I specifically asked Joy for that! That's disappointing.
=/

Well, people who do not listen to or do not believe in what I say usually are disappointed...

Calm down, Cowboy. I was assuming for a moment you were only a magplar, which is OP. You're not, so... cool.
Still disagree with you.
=P

Twas a joke!

Sorreyyy! Dx

AshTal

I don't know if its true but I have heard a lot of players moan that Stamina has much higher burst damage but has much worse resource management so continuous DPS is worse. However in PvP the most important thing is quick fast DPS kill fast then pull back and restore. As such Stamina is better built for PvP than a Magic class who can keep up the damage for longer but it is unable to match the burst dps because we need to do quick damage to stop them healing or pulling back.

AzuraKin

Zurxii wrote: »

Hello,

To start off as you read in the title I'm going to be giving the Real problem with Mag vs Stam and hopefully we can get zenimax to understand and act on it

So let's start with the biggest:
As everyone knows (or should) Stam this patch is MUCH stronger than any mag class/build. Here's why: First, proc sets. For example viper, tremor, velidreth, red mountain, etc. all of these sets are stackable, meaning there's no cap to only 1 proc set, but you can stack as many of these as you want, which obviously is stupid.

Now don't get me wrong it's a cool idea I suppose but it won't work, not towards a skill based type of gameplay which is Dueling. Players that use these proc sets can hit ONE single heavy attack, proc viper, widow maker, velidreth (or tremor if taunting) and virtually one shot anyone. This is even MORE unfair towards 75%+ of mag builds considering they use shields to sustain, for example a sorc, which only last 6 seconds (thanks zenimax)

Next, Stam builds now have the option to stack more damage, and resistances with little to no sustain what-so-ever. Say a Stam dk runs 5 Black Rose 5Viper 2Tremor. That dk will have hardly any recov, and be carried in sustain by a simple black rose proc (Yes I know dks also have igneous and battle roar but a Stam sorc/stamplar can do it just as well with under 1k regen) I wouldn't personally mind that Stam builds could sustain with under 1k regen, but they don't even have to attempt sustain, they can simply spam everything they have repeatedly without even heavy-ing. So now they have insane damage from proc sets as well as the resistances from heavy armor, great sustain, AND they can run thief mundus for exceptional crit. Makes sense right?

Finally ..ULTIMATES! What's wrong with these ultis? Well let's pick 2 classes: a Stam NB vs a Mag Sorc. As for ultimates (in Dueling) what does a Stam nb have in its arsenal? An ability that costs 1/4th the cost of what used to be (maybe still is to some) mag sorcs best ulti they have for burst: meteor. Okay now that doesn't sound to bad does it? Wellllll, considering it costs waaaaay less, does just as much if not more dmg, ccs, applies major defile, and reduces enemy damage done to you. So for example here I am fighting a Stam nb, my hairline is receding slowly every time I get hit with an incap, and every 5 minutes I get to drop a potato on them. Yes meteor is great if you use it correctly but especially if I'm fighting another good player, it's hard to land a meteor without them blocking it. Granted I can block incap on some players but there's a much bigger margin for error with meteor. As for Destro ulti., I think it's great. Call me cheese If you will but it costs 2x amt of db (4x than Incap) and its strong yes, but what about dawnbreaker? Incap? And the fact Stam builds have trap beast. I main mag sorc, and the other day I was Dueling a friend who was in medium. I was testing Destro ulti on him as he was a MEDIUM armor 2H/BOW Stam dk. He healed through my Destro ulti with ease - the thing is Stam users say Destro ulti is insane because they can't keep up their buffs, and don't know how to properly play. That's the real issue with Stam vs Mag, and hopefully ZOS will fix it.
http://m.imgur.com/Ij10ivv?r

gosh what the *** am i doing wrong? i have to heavy attack to maintain stamina on my heavy armor tank. gosh i gotta heavy attack on my medium armor stam dps. wow spam abilities on stam at under 1k regen? this guy is on crack. even 1500 per stam ability, (single target ability, looking 1800-2000 for aoe at cheapest) that means you need at least 3000 combined regen every 2s for sustainability. 7p heavy only grants 1400 without the one set that provided 50% boost but even with that set thats only about 2100 every 4s. or 1050 every 2s equivalent (tossin 1k regen on top of that naturally for a equivalent 2k stam regen out of a 3k cost every 2s cost)

Zurxii

lol. It was an exaggeration, but go play a mag class with 1k Regen then go play a Stam class with 1k Regen. HMU with which sustains better. Especially if you're red guard.

Joy_Division

Minalan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I think stam dominance is a bit overstated. They are potentially stronger and very dangerous in the hands of a sword & shield player who knows what they are doing (seriously, it's way more dangerous than the 2H...no idea why more stam players are sticking with 2H main but whatever), but the issue I mostly have is with the simultaneous proc nonsense. Assuming zoS deals with this, then the problem will largely go away.

No. We would still have the problems of how dodge scales with multiple opponents. How stam builds are more mobile and can cc break more easily. How weapon damage is easier to stack than spell damage and how weaving/animation cancelling is better on melee. How gapclosers prevent ranged combat and how telegraphed magicka burst is.
There was a big disparity before proc sets, and after the removal of them, it will still be there.
=(

Yes. I play magicka and I generally don't have an issue with that stuff. Before the proc sets, I felt I could defeat a stamina player in a fair fight so I don't agree there was a big disparity.

Your a magplar... Magplars are OP even before the new proc sets...

Templar: Alliance rank 35

Sorcerer: Alliance rank 37

DK: Alliance rank: 25

NB: Alliance rank 14.

Try again. Thanks for playing.

As long as you don't do something silly like try and mDK without being a perma block enemy PuG magnet, generally you'll be OK in Cyrodiil until hit by simultaneous procs.

Id love to hear your setup, because magsorc has been a pretty miserable experience since the DB patch.

Sure you can do 'ok' and score a few kills, but you're working a LOT harder and you have to be twice the player than your average stamina sorc to perform at the same level.

Magicka ability costs have to go down across the board significantly. That's what's killing us. Let me pick up two DPS sets and sustain like a Stamina user and we'll be balanced.

For sorc?

If you get lucky and have a lich resto staff, I would backbar 5 lich and 5 Spinners on front bar. Otherwise 5 Spinners Front bar and extra regen/cost reduction glyph resto back bar. I wear the Infernal Guardian Helm.

You play exactly the same way before the shield nerf. The only big difference is when the NB ganks you, you wont have a shield up. If this bothers you, slot the defensive rune skill. If casting your shield(s) every 6 seconds in combat bothers you, then that means you are not getting hit and have no right to complain IMHO. The change to critical surge helps you. So does unblockable curse.

If it's zergy I just use I run hardened and healing ward. If I am solo, small group, I slot the resto staff ulti (and try not to rely on it because some PuG will steal the heal). Always Eye of the Storm Front bar. Streak & Encase people in Eye. Use Lightning Fury; Front bar. It's that good of a skill. I prefer Inferno staff because of burst and lightning attack just telegraphs your target that they need to defend themselves. But this isn't any secret. It still works just fine. Sorcs always had burst and always had shields. Just because there are new toys doesn't mean this combination is less effective.

Yes procs kill you, but procs kill everyone. Should sorcs be the only class immune to procs or something? I don't have to work a LOT harder. It's still the same thing, except you - like everyone - have to rez more often. I didn;t play my sorc for two months because like yourself I thought the shield and surge changes were huge nerfs. They are not. The shield thing is just an inconvenience.

I also think a lot of sorcs have responded by going too far glass cannon: trying to get 50K magicka, bound armaments, inner light, etc. Unless these sorcs are highly skilled players and experts at their craft, they re going to get Rekt because sorcs still need impen, still need defensive skills, still need stam. I would be most of the "sorcs got overnerfed" calls have come from such players who somehow think that (again) sorcs should by right have the means to be unique flowers in Cyrodiil and not have to worry about getting attacked like other players.

I am definitely a better templar player than sorc so if I can do fine and have fun, I don't see how the people with sorc mains cannot.

Minalan

AzuraKin wrote: »

Zurxii wrote: »

Hello,

To start off as you read in the title I'm going to be giving the Real problem with Mag vs Stam and hopefully we can get zenimax to understand and act on it

So let's start with the biggest:
As everyone knows (or should) Stam this patch is MUCH stronger than any mag class/build. Here's why: First, proc sets. For example viper, tremor, velidreth, red mountain, etc. all of these sets are stackable, meaning there's no cap to only 1 proc set, but you can stack as many of these as you want, which obviously is stupid.

Now don't get me wrong it's a cool idea I suppose but it won't work, not towards a skill based type of gameplay which is Dueling. Players that use these proc sets can hit ONE single heavy attack, proc viper, widow maker, velidreth (or tremor if taunting) and virtually one shot anyone. This is even MORE unfair towards 75%+ of mag builds considering they use shields to sustain, for example a sorc, which only last 6 seconds (thanks zenimax)

Next, Stam builds now have the option to stack more damage, and resistances with little to no sustain what-so-ever. Say a Stam dk runs 5 Black Rose 5Viper 2Tremor. That dk will have hardly any recov, and be carried in sustain by a simple black rose proc (Yes I know dks also have igneous and battle roar but a Stam sorc/stamplar can do it just as well with under 1k regen) I wouldn't personally mind that Stam builds could sustain with under 1k regen, but they don't even have to attempt sustain, they can simply spam everything they have repeatedly without even heavy-ing. So now they have insane damage from proc sets as well as the resistances from heavy armor, great sustain, AND they can run thief mundus for exceptional crit. Makes sense right?

Finally ..ULTIMATES! What's wrong with these ultis? Well let's pick 2 classes: a Stam NB vs a Mag Sorc. As for ultimates (in Dueling) what does a Stam nb have in its arsenal? An ability that costs 1/4th the cost of what used to be (maybe still is to some) mag sorcs best ulti they have for burst: meteor. Okay now that doesn't sound to bad does it? Wellllll, considering it costs waaaaay less, does just as much if not more dmg, ccs, applies major defile, and reduces enemy damage done to you. So for example here I am fighting a Stam nb, my hairline is receding slowly every time I get hit with an incap, and every 5 minutes I get to drop a potato on them. Yes meteor is great if you use it correctly but especially if I'm fighting another good player, it's hard to land a meteor without them blocking it. Granted I can block incap on some players but there's a much bigger margin for error with meteor. As for Destro ulti., I think it's great. Call me cheese If you will but it costs 2x amt of db (4x than Incap) and its strong yes, but what about dawnbreaker? Incap? And the fact Stam builds have trap beast. I main mag sorc, and the other day I was Dueling a friend who was in medium. I was testing Destro ulti on him as he was a MEDIUM armor 2H/BOW Stam dk. He healed through my Destro ulti with ease - the thing is Stam users say Destro ulti is insane because they can't keep up their buffs, and don't know how to properly play. That's the real issue with Stam vs Mag, and hopefully ZOS will fix it.
http://m.imgur.com/Ij10ivv?r

gosh what the *** am i doing wrong? i have to heavy attack to maintain stamina on my heavy armor tank. gosh i gotta heavy attack on my medium armor stam dps. wow spam abilities on stam at under 1k regen? this guy is on crack. even 1500 per stam ability, (single target ability, looking 1800-2000 for aoe at cheapest) that means you need at least 3000 combined regen every 2s for sustainability. 7p heavy only grants 1400 without the one set that provided 50% boost but even with that set thats only about 2100 every 4s. or 1050 every 2s equivalent (tossin 1k regen on top of that naturally for a equivalent 2k stam regen out of a 3k cost every 2s cost)

Are you honestly crying about 1500 cost abilities, or is this a joke? The cheapest, least damaging magicka attack I have (force pulse) costs well over 2.2K, and Stamina players are barely tickled by it.

Something decent like deadric mines costs closer to 5.5K to cast. That's three and a half times higher cost to pull similar damage to what you get for 1500.

This is why we're asking for a buff. Stop whining about it. It is going to happen next patch. Magicka sorcs and magicka DK's are about to become stronger. Soon stamina players are going to see that they're not nearly as good as they think they are.

Saint_Bud

WTB magicka rally and vigor

Lord-Otto

Well, Joy, the very reasonable complaint with shields is that you still have to re-apply them even if you have your stam opponent on the run.
See, it's already difficult to put pressure on a stam player with all that animation-cancelling rolling. Also, your burst is highly telegraphed and therefore easily blocked. And when you finally got the upper hand, you still have to chase them down to avoid LoS healing, and stam is much more mobile. And then you ALSO have to refresh shields so often, since you're dead with zhem down. No impen helps you with that instant 30k burst.
If you add all that, it's easy to see why shield users are struggling. It's not about the actual head-on fight, but when you need to finish the opponent off. What happens to me almost always is that when I overcome my typical stamblade enemy, he's just running around obstacles. I have to shield, streak and dps. My opponent has dodge immunity frames, major expedition, caltrops snare and invisibility. It is too much. Magsorcs can't deal with all of that at once. And if you let the enemy slip, he will come back and burst you down in a second for a cheap kill.

Joy_Division

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Well, Joy, the very reasonable complaint with shields is that you still have to re-apply them even if you have your stam opponent on the run.
See, it's already difficult to put pressure on a stam player with all that animation-cancelling rolling. Also, your burst is highly telegraphed and therefore easily blocked. And when you finally got the upper hand, you still have to chase them down to avoid LoS healing, and stam is much more mobile. And then you ALSO have to refresh shields so often, since you're dead with zhem down. No impen helps you with that instant 30k burst.
If you add all that, it's easy to see why shield users are struggling. It's not about the actual head-on fight, but when you need to finish the opponent off. What happens to me almost always is that when I overcome my typical stamblade enemy, he's just running around obstacles. I have to shield, streak and dps. My opponent has dodge immunity frames, major expedition, caltrops snare and invisibility. It is too much. Magsorcs can't deal with all of that at once. And if you let the enemy slip, he will come back and burst you down in a second for a cheap kill.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree that a sorcerer that has a stam opponent "on the run" and holds the initiative needs 20K stacked shields.

I feel this way because if templars, DKs, or a NBs, all of which also have difficulty putting pressure on a rolling stam player (more actually, temps and DKs are slow, DKs and NBs lack class skills that defeat dodge), somehow can manage, why can't a sorcerer? And I'm still not exactly sure why sorc in light armor with no shields dead, but not the other three classes in light armor. Is it because the sorc is running around with all divines, no defensive skills, and no health? Serves her right. Being a sorc IMHO does not give a player license to invest everything into damage without consequence. If one class can do that, then the game is busted. See 1.6 magsorcs and stam NBs.

But what do I know? After all, I had the audacity to admit my initial impressions of sorcs post DB were wrong because I didn't just quit on the class and demand ZoS make them stupid OP again.

Note to mDKs: I tried. It takes a better player than me to make them anything more than perma-block PuG magnets.