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[IN PROGRESS] PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
The Real Problem With Mag vs Stam
Zurxii
✭✭
Hello,
To start off as you read in the title I'm going to be giving the Real problem with Mag vs Stam and hopefully we can get zenimax to understand and act on it
So let's start with the biggest:
As everyone knows (or should) Stam this patch is MUCH stronger than any mag class/build. Here's why: First, proc sets. For example viper, tremor, velidreth, red mountain, etc. all of these sets are stackable, meaning there's no cap to only 1 proc set, but you can stack as many of these as you want, which obviously is stupid.
Now don't get me wrong it's a cool idea I suppose but it won't work, not towards a skill based type of gameplay which is Dueling. Players that use these proc sets can hit ONE single heavy attack, proc viper, widow maker, velidreth (or tremor if taunting) and virtually one shot anyone. This is even MORE unfair towards 75%+ of mag builds considering they use shields to sustain, for example a sorc, which only last 6 seconds (thanks zenimax)
Next, Stam builds now have the option to stack more damage, and resistances with little to no sustain what-so-ever. Say a Stam dk runs 5 Black Rose 5Viper 2Tremor. That dk will have hardly any recov, and be carried in sustain by a simple black rose proc (Yes I know dks also have igneous and battle roar but a Stam sorc/stamplar can do it just as well with under 1k regen) I wouldn't personally mind that Stam builds could sustain with under 1k regen, but they don't even have to attempt sustain, they can simply spam everything they have repeatedly without even heavy-ing. So now they have insane damage from proc sets as well as the resistances from heavy armor, great sustain, AND they can run thief mundus for exceptional crit. Makes sense right?
Finally ..ULTIMATES! What's wrong with these ultis? Well let's pick 2 classes: a Stam NB vs a Mag Sorc. As for ultimates (in Dueling) what does a Stam nb have in its arsenal? An ability that costs 1/4th the cost of what used to be (maybe still is to some) mag sorcs best ulti they have for burst: meteor. Okay now that doesn't sound to bad does it? Wellllll, considering it costs waaaaay less, does just as much if not more dmg, ccs, applies major defile, and reduces enemy damage done to you. So for example here I am fighting a Stam nb, my hairline is receding slowly every time I get hit with an incap, and every 5 minutes I get to drop a potato on them. Yes meteor is great if you use it correctly but especially if I'm fighting another good player, it's hard to land a meteor without them blocking it. Granted I can block incap on some players but there's a much bigger margin for error with meteor. As for Destro ulti., I think it's great. Call me cheese If you will but it costs 2x amt of db (4x than Incap) and its strong yes, but what about dawnbreaker? Incap? And the fact Stam builds have trap beast. I main mag sorc, and the other day I was Dueling a friend who was in medium. I was testing Destro ulti on him as he was a MEDIUM armor 2H/BOW Stam dk. He healed through my Destro ulti with ease - the thing is Stam users say Destro ulti is insane because they can't keep up their buffs, and don't know how to properly play. That's the real issue with Stam vs Mag, and hopefully ZOS will fix it.
http://m.imgur.com/Ij10ivv?r
Edited by Zurxii on 23 November 2016 15:29 To start off as you read in the title I'm going to be giving the Real problem with Mag vs Stam and hopefully we can get zenimax to understand and act on it
So let's start with the biggest:
As everyone knows (or should) Stam this patch is MUCH stronger than any mag class/build. Here's why: First, proc sets. For example viper, tremor, velidreth, red mountain, etc. all of these sets are stackable, meaning there's no cap to only 1 proc set, but you can stack as many of these as you want, which obviously is stupid.
Now don't get me wrong it's a cool idea I suppose but it won't work, not towards a skill based type of gameplay which is Dueling. Players that use these proc sets can hit ONE single heavy attack, proc viper, widow maker, velidreth (or tremor if taunting) and virtually one shot anyone. This is even MORE unfair towards 75%+ of mag builds considering they use shields to sustain, for example a sorc, which only last 6 seconds (thanks zenimax)
Next, Stam builds now have the option to stack more damage, and resistances with little to no sustain what-so-ever. Say a Stam dk runs 5 Black Rose 5Viper 2Tremor. That dk will have hardly any recov, and be carried in sustain by a simple black rose proc (Yes I know dks also have igneous and battle roar but a Stam sorc/stamplar can do it just as well with under 1k regen) I wouldn't personally mind that Stam builds could sustain with under 1k regen, but they don't even have to attempt sustain, they can simply spam everything they have repeatedly without even heavy-ing. So now they have insane damage from proc sets as well as the resistances from heavy armor, great sustain, AND they can run thief mundus for exceptional crit. Makes sense right?
Finally ..ULTIMATES! What's wrong with these ultis? Well let's pick 2 classes: a Stam NB vs a Mag Sorc. As for ultimates (in Dueling) what does a Stam nb have in its arsenal? An ability that costs 1/4th the cost of what used to be (maybe still is to some) mag sorcs best ulti they have for burst: meteor. Okay now that doesn't sound to bad does it? Wellllll, considering it costs waaaaay less, does just as much if not more dmg, ccs, applies major defile, and reduces enemy damage done to you. So for example here I am fighting a Stam nb, my hairline is receding slowly every time I get hit with an incap, and every 5 minutes I get to drop a potato on them. Yes meteor is great if you use it correctly but especially if I'm fighting another good player, it's hard to land a meteor without them blocking it. Granted I can block incap on some players but there's a much bigger margin for error with meteor. As for Destro ulti., I think it's great. Call me cheese If you will but it costs 2x amt of db (4x than Incap) and its strong yes, but what about dawnbreaker? Incap? And the fact Stam builds have trap beast. I main mag sorc, and the other day I was Dueling a friend who was in medium. I was testing Destro ulti on him as he was a MEDIUM armor 2H/BOW Stam dk. He healed through my Destro ulti with ease - the thing is Stam users say Destro ulti is insane because they can't keep up their buffs, and don't know how to properly play. That's the real issue with Stam vs Mag, and hopefully ZOS will fix it.
http://m.imgur.com/Ij10ivv?r
~Out2Kill
5
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Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You had me until you mentioned ultimates. l2eye
Stam is definitely stronger than mag right now, but only barely. If we remove proc sets mag and stam are actually pretty close to equal4 -
lolo_01b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why did you pick different classes, when comparing ultimates? If I compare a magblade and a stamplar, I can conclude that magicka has stronger ultimates, following your logic. Or I can just realize that nbs have a strong ulti for duelling in general.2 -
Zurxii✭✭I was going to compare same classes but I didn't because that shouldn't be an issue. One class shouldn't be stronger than another, a mag sorc shouldn't have to wait 4x as long to drop an ulti that's harder to land than incap and not as much reward from it.~Out2Kill0
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Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I was going to compare same classes but I didn't because that shouldn't be an issue. One class shouldn't be stronger than another, a mag sorc shouldn't have to wait 4x as long to drop an ulti that's harder to land than incap and not as much reward from it.
Mag sorc can use eye. It may take longer to charge but its about 3 times more dangerous than anything else in the game.
I'm sorry, but your argument about ultis is completely invalid.0 -
Zurxii✭✭destro ulti ticks for 6k a second any good build can buff vigor rally spam to survive it unless they want to be smart an move the OUT of the aoe incap is instant 12k+ damage that stuns defiles AN makes you hit harder AGAINST said target~Out2Kill1
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thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭destro ulti ticks for 6k a second any good build can buff vigor rally spam to survive it unless they want to be smart an move the OUT of the aoe incap is instant 12k+ damage that stuns defiles AN makes you hit harder AGAINST said target
I agree with some things the destro ultimate is overrated against good players 1v1. I find I'm better off using soul harvest on my magblade because for 50 ultimate I can keep up massive amounts of pressure as well as defile them. most good players no how to counter eots in 1v1 situations. In open world PvP though soul harvest/incap can't even remotely compare, if you can kite players into a choke and use this ability it's really powerful because the damage ticks are strong for a aoe. It will also relieve alot of pressure on you by killing some of the less experienced targets. Incap is only hitting you for 12k if you have 0 impen and if that's the case you let your shields go down if then 12k is alot from a none gank build. Eots is strong because honestly most players you come across in cyrodiil aren't the best players and they don't know how to counter it. But i do agree against really good players it Meh because the only way to kill them is with a big burst combo so you are better off using something that hits a little harder1 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭destro ulti ticks for 6k a second any good build can buff vigor rally spam to survive it unless they want to be smart an move the OUT of the aoe incap is instant 12k+ damage that stuns defiles AN makes you hit harder AGAINST said target
My destro ticks for 10k+ crits in pvp and you can do other actions during it, and its aoe.0 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭destro ulti ticks for 6k a second any good build can buff vigor rally spam to survive it unless they want to be smart an move the OUT of the aoe incap is instant 12k+ damage that stuns defiles AN makes you hit harder AGAINST said target
My destro ticks for 10k+ crits in pvp and you can do other actions during it, and its aoe.
Is that on soft targets? I found my destro ultimate on ticks for like 5k as well on meta heavy armor builds with full impen. I've seen it crit for 10k before but they are usually vampires wearing little impen. How much magicka do you have0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »destro ulti ticks for 6k a second any good build can buff vigor rally spam to survive it unless they want to be smart an move the OUT of the aoe incap is instant 12k+ damage that stuns defiles AN makes you hit harder AGAINST said target
My destro ticks for 10k+ crits in pvp and you can do other actions during it, and its aoe.
Is that on soft targets? I found my destro ultimate on ticks for like 5k as well on meta heavy armor builds with full impen. I've seen it crit for 10k before but they are usually vampires wearing little impen. How much magicka do you have
That's on a magplar running 5 soulshine 5 spinners 2 Bloodspawn. 35k mag 3500 spell damage buffed. It turns out when you've got 12k pen everything is a soft target
My mageblade has significantly higher tooltip than magplar too. Add in major breach and Light armor passives and I think I could get 12-14k crits on the regular.Edited by Lexxypwns on 23 November 2016 16:340 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭destro ulti ticks for 6k a second any good build can buff vigor rally spam to survive it unless they want to be smart an move the OUT of the aoe incap is instant 12k+ damage that stuns defiles AN makes you hit harder AGAINST said target
My destro ticks for 10k+ crits in pvp and you can do other actions during it, and its aoe.
All classes can heal through one EotS, except super squishy NBs. If you get hit by multiple EotSs in a group, then yes, you should die. 500+ synchronized ulti cost should kill you, just as 300+ synchronized Dawnbreakers kill you or 0+ synchronized gap close Viper procs.
As for Nightblades, you can oneshot even emperors out of stealth and move in and out unseen. If that is not enough for you, then don't play the stealth class, simple.
And do not tell the OP his/her opiniom is invalid, since it is very much appreciated on this forum. Unlike you, he's not biased.2 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭destro ulti ticks for 6k a second any good build can buff vigor rally spam to survive it unless they want to be smart an move the OUT of the aoe incap is instant 12k+ damage that stuns defiles AN makes you hit harder AGAINST said target
My destro ticks for 10k+ crits in pvp and you can do other actions during it, and its aoe.
All classes can heal through one EotS, except super squishy NBs. If you get hit by multiple EotSs in a group, then yes, you should die. 500+ synchronized ulti cost should kill you, just as 300+ synchronized Dawnbreakers kill you or 0+ synchronized gap close Viper procs.
As for Nightblades, you can oneshot even emperors out of stealth and move in and out unseen. If that is not enough for you, then don't play the stealth class, simple.
And do not tell the OP his/her opiniom is invalid, since it is very much appreciated on this forum. Unlike you, he's not biased.
I've had 2 people successfully heal through eye and have duelist on 4 magika based characters. Yeah, people theoretically can, if you don't pressure them during it.
I exclusively play magika and have exactly 1 stamina character, who hasn't pvp'ed since pre 1t. Yeah, I'm biased, towards magika. I can still see clearly that eye is a much bigger problem than incap and that anyone thinking otherwise isn't taking an objective look. If you're having trouble with incap still you're still in the l2p stages.Edited by Lexxypwns on 23 November 2016 16:470 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think stam dominance is a bit overstated. They are potentially stronger and very dangerous in the hands of a sword & shield player who knows what they are doing (seriously, it's way more dangerous than the 2H...no idea why more stam players are sticking with 2H main but whatever), but the issue I mostly have is with the simultaneous proc nonsense. Assuming zoS deals with this, then the problem will largely go away.0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »I think stam dominance is a bit overstated. They are potentially stronger and very dangerous in the hands of a sword & shield player who knows what they are doing (seriously, it's way more dangerous than the 2H...no idea why more stam players are sticking with 2H main but whatever), but the issue I mostly have is with the simultaneous proc nonsense. Assuming zoS deals with this, then the problem will largely go away.
If proc sets are brought in line and eye is tweaked then magika/stam balance is pretty close to achieved.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭destro ulti ticks for 6k a second any good build can buff vigor rally spam to survive it unless they want to be smart an move the OUT of the aoe incap is instant 12k+ damage that stuns defiles AN makes you hit harder AGAINST said target
My destro ticks for 10k+ crits in pvp and you can do other actions during it, and its aoe.
All classes can heal through one EotS, except super squishy NBs. If you get hit by multiple EotSs in a group, then yes, you should die. 500+ synchronized ulti cost should kill you, just as 300+ synchronized Dawnbreakers kill you or 0+ synchronized gap close Viper procs.
As for Nightblades, you can oneshot even emperors out of stealth and move in and out unseen. If that is not enough for you, then don't play the stealth class, simple.
And do not tell the OP his/her opiniom is invalid, since it is very much appreciated on this forum. Unlike you, he's not biased.
I've had 2 people successfully heal through eye and have duelist on 4 magika based characters. Yeah, people theoretically can, if you don't pressure them during it.
I exclusively play magika and have exactly 1 stamina character, who hasn't pvp'ed since pre 1t. Yeah, I'm biased, towards magika. I can still see clearly that eye is a much bigger problem than incap and that anyone thinking otherwise isn't taking an objective look. If you're having trouble with incap still you're still in the l2p stages.
Oh, yes, thank you for claiming that 30k+ damage Incap combos in two seconds are a L2P issue. All stamblades make excessive use of Incap instead of Dawnbreaker because obviously, all of Cyrodiil hasn't learned how to play yet. Get the flock outta here, son.5 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »I think stam dominance is a bit overstated. They are potentially stronger and very dangerous in the hands of a sword & shield player who knows what they are doing (seriously, it's way more dangerous than the 2H...no idea why more stam players are sticking with 2H main but whatever), but the issue I mostly have is with the simultaneous proc nonsense. Assuming zoS deals with this, then the problem will largely go away.
No. We would still have the problems of how dodge scales with multiple opponents. How stam builds are more mobile and can cc break more easily. How weapon damage is easier to stack than spell damage and how weaving/animation cancelling is better on melee. How gapclosers prevent ranged combat and how telegraphed magicka burst is.
There was a big disparity before proc sets, and after the removal of them, it will still be there.
=(5 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wait... Sorcs have a useable ultimate for small scale?
Wait a sec...
No they don't.
So....
NERF METEOR AND EYE
back to sorcs not having a worthwhile ult! Now that's balance...0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »I think stam dominance is a bit overstated. They are potentially stronger and very dangerous in the hands of a sword & shield player who knows what they are doing (seriously, it's way more dangerous than the 2H...no idea why more stam players are sticking with 2H main but whatever), but the issue I mostly have is with the simultaneous proc nonsense. Assuming zoS deals with this, then the problem will largely go away.
No. We would still have the problems of how dodge scales with multiple opponents. How stam builds are more mobile and can cc break more easily. How weapon damage is easier to stack than spell damage and how weaving/animation cancelling is better on melee. How gapclosers prevent ranged combat and how telegraphed magicka burst is.
There was a big disparity before proc sets, and after the removal of them, it will still be there.
=(
Don't forget the non-existence of stamina equivalent of silence that disables all your abilities, or eclipse that reflects all your single target attacks back at yourself.3 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »I think stam dominance is a bit overstated. They are potentially stronger and very dangerous in the hands of a sword & shield player who knows what they are doing (seriously, it's way more dangerous than the 2H...no idea why more stam players are sticking with 2H main but whatever), but the issue I mostly have is with the simultaneous proc nonsense. Assuming zoS deals with this, then the problem will largely go away.
No. We would still have the problems of how dodge scales with multiple opponents. How stam builds are more mobile and can cc break more easily. How weapon damage is easier to stack than spell damage and how weaving/animation cancelling is better on melee. How gapclosers prevent ranged combat and how telegraphed magicka burst is.
There was a big disparity before proc sets, and after the removal of them, it will still be there.
=(
Don't forget the non-existence of stamina equivalent of silence that disables all your abilities, or eclipse that reflects all your single target attacks back at yourself.
Oh, yes, very good point! *shudders*1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »I think stam dominance is a bit overstated. They are potentially stronger and very dangerous in the hands of a sword & shield player who knows what they are doing (seriously, it's way more dangerous than the 2H...no idea why more stam players are sticking with 2H main but whatever), but the issue I mostly have is with the simultaneous proc nonsense. Assuming zoS deals with this, then the problem will largely go away.
No. We would still have the problems of how dodge scales with multiple opponents. How stam builds are more mobile and can cc break more easily. How weapon damage is easier to stack than spell damage and how weaving/animation cancelling is better on melee. How gapclosers prevent ranged combat and how telegraphed magicka burst is.
There was a big disparity before proc sets, and after the removal of them, it will still be there.
=(
Don't forget the non-existence of stamina equivalent of silence that disables all your abilities, or eclipse that reflects all your single target attacks back at yourself.
What? Stamina sorcs aren't using negate? This is news to me, because it looks to me like that's all they know how to do. Streak, negate, then dizzy spam when you can't heal or shield up. It's effective as hell.
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭destro ulti ticks for 6k a second any good build can buff vigor rally spam to survive it unless they want to be smart an move the OUT of the aoe incap is instant 12k+ damage that stuns defiles AN makes you hit harder AGAINST said target
My destro ticks for 10k+ crits in pvp and you can do other actions during it, and its aoe.
All classes can heal through one EotS, except super squishy NBs. If you get hit by multiple EotSs in a group, then yes, you should die. 500+ synchronized ulti cost should kill you, just as 300+ synchronized Dawnbreakers kill you or 0+ synchronized gap close Viper procs.
As for Nightblades, you can oneshot even emperors out of stealth and move in and out unseen. If that is not enough for you, then don't play the stealth class, simple.
And do not tell the OP his/her opiniom is invalid, since it is very much appreciated on this forum. Unlike you, he's not biased.
I've had 2 people successfully heal through eye and have duelist on 4 magika based characters. Yeah, people theoretically can, if you don't pressure them during it.
I exclusively play magika and have exactly 1 stamina character, who hasn't pvp'ed since pre 1t. Yeah, I'm biased, towards magika. I can still see clearly that eye is a much bigger problem than incap and that anyone thinking otherwise isn't taking an objective look. If you're having trouble with incap still you're still in the l2p stages.
Oh, yes, thank you for claiming that 30k+ damage Incap combos in two seconds are a L2P issue. All stamblades make excessive use of Incap instead of Dawnbreaker because obviously, all of Cyrodiil hasn't learned how to play yet. Get the flock outta here, son.
You beat me to it:
Incap: 6k, Viper 6k, Veli 4k. That's 16k damage in one single CHEAP ult cost, not to mention defile etc, through HA x6 with impen. In one sec. And that's typical and not maxed out (could throw in another proc set... widowmaker etc)
For magicka to hit 16k damage takes a minimum of 2 seconds, on a weak/low armor opponent that also has an opportunity to respond.
It's not a L2P when one ability can trigger 20k worth of damage on a player in PvP...4 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »I think stam dominance is a bit overstated. They are potentially stronger and very dangerous in the hands of a sword & shield player who knows what they are doing (seriously, it's way more dangerous than the 2H...no idea why more stam players are sticking with 2H main but whatever), but the issue I mostly have is with the simultaneous proc nonsense. Assuming zoS deals with this, then the problem will largely go away.
No. We would still have the problems of how dodge scales with multiple opponents. How stam builds are more mobile and can cc break more easily. How weapon damage is easier to stack than spell damage and how weaving/animation cancelling is better on melee. How gapclosers prevent ranged combat and how telegraphed magicka burst is.
There was a big disparity before proc sets, and after the removal of them, it will still be there.
=(
Yes. I play magicka and I generally don't have an issue with that stuff. Before the proc sets, I felt I could defeat a stamina player in a fair fight so I don't agree there was a big disparity.0 -
Kutsuu✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »destro ulti ticks for 6k a second any good build can buff vigor rally spam to survive it unless they want to be smart an move the OUT of the aoe incap is instant 12k+ damage that stuns defiles AN makes you hit harder AGAINST said target
My destro ticks for 10k+ crits in pvp and you can do other actions during it, and its aoe.
All classes can heal through one EotS, except super squishy NBs. If you get hit by multiple EotSs in a group, then yes, you should die. 500+ synchronized ulti cost should kill you, just as 300+ synchronized Dawnbreakers kill you or 0+ synchronized gap close Viper procs.
As for Nightblades, you can oneshot even emperors out of stealth and move in and out unseen. If that is not enough for you, then don't play the stealth class, simple.
And do not tell the OP his/her opiniom is invalid, since it is very much appreciated on this forum. Unlike you, he's not biased.
I've had 2 people successfully heal through eye and have duelist on 4 magika based characters. Yeah, people theoretically can, if you don't pressure them during it.
I exclusively play magika and have exactly 1 stamina character, who hasn't pvp'ed since pre 1t. Yeah, I'm biased, towards magika. I can still see clearly that eye is a much bigger problem than incap and that anyone thinking otherwise isn't taking an objective look. If you're having trouble with incap still you're still in the l2p stages.
Oh, yes, thank you for claiming that 30k+ damage Incap combos in two seconds are a L2P issue. All stamblades make excessive use of Incap instead of Dawnbreaker because obviously, all of Cyrodiil hasn't learned how to play yet. Get the flock outta here, son.
You beat me to it:
Incap: 6k, Viper 6k, Veli 4k. That's 16k damage in one single CHEAP ult cost, not to mention defile etc, through HA x6 with impen. In one sec. And that's typical and not maxed out (could throw in another proc set... widowmaker etc)
For magicka to hit 16k damage takes a minimum of 2 seconds, on a weak/low armor opponent that also has an opportunity to respond.
It's not a L2P when one ability can trigger 20k worth of damage on a player in PvP...
Why even pick out incap for that? Any damage ability can trigger Velidreth, and any physical damage ability (or weapon enchant) can trigger Viper. You act like Incap is the only thing that will trigger proc sets. Widowmaker won't proc on Incap afaik - it procs when your poison procs and those are triggered by light/heavy attacks and weapon skills (like Puncture and its morphs). You could more easily complain that Puncture can proc Widowmaker, Viper, and Tremorscale on the same attack with a pretty high success rate if you weave light>puncture>bash.PC/NA
Envy Me - Sorc
Kutsus - NB
Kutsmuffin - Temp
Kutsuu the Destroyer - NB
Kutsuu - Temp
Natsu Dragoneel - DK
Kutsumo - NB3 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Joy: No offense, man, but unless you're a temp, there was no way you could ever beat an equally-skilled stamina player in DB era. I could discuss this, but the majority of the community is pretty set on this on. Not doubting your player skill, but there are just some major advantages to stamina. Also, we're talking real Cyrodiil here, not dueling.
@Kutsuu: Because Incap adds a ton of damage, opens up the burst and is so cheap it hits you what feels like every five seconds. It makes those procs hit significantly easier, on top of the normal burst.4 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Joy: No offense, man, but unless you're a temp, there was no way you could ever beat an equally-skilled stamina player in DB era. I could discuss this, but the majority of the community is pretty set on this on. Not doubting your player skill, but there are just some major advantages to stamina. Also, we're talking real Cyrodiil here, not dueling.
@Kutsuu: Because Incap adds a ton of damage, opens up the burst and is so cheap it hits you what feels like every five seconds. It makes those procs hit significantly easier, on top of the normal burst.
Also cuz the only compared magicka anything is the destro ult.
Yes Tremorscale etc... but I made that post pre-1T release, no need for me to beat on that horse.
Same point different example, 20k dmg in 1 sec was the WHOLE reason PvP battle spirit came into existence0 -
Kutsuu✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »@Joy: No offense, man, but unless you're a temp, there was no way you could ever beat an equally-skilled stamina player in DB era. I could discuss this, but the majority of the community is pretty set on this on. Not doubting your player skill, but there are just some major advantages to stamina. Also, we're talking real Cyrodiil here, not dueling.
@Kutsuu: Because Incap adds a ton of damage, opens up the burst and is so cheap it hits you what feels like every five seconds. It makes those procs hit significantly easier, on top of the normal burst.
Also cuz the only compared magicka anything is the destro ult.
Yes Tremorscale etc... but I made that post pre-1T release, no need for me to beat on that horse.
Same point different example, 20k dmg in 1 sec was the WHOLE reason PvP battle spirit came into existence
The post I quoted and responded to was made today. Not sure where you're going with that.PC/NA
Envy Me - Sorc
Kutsus - NB
Kutsmuffin - Temp
Kutsuu the Destroyer - NB
Kutsuu - Temp
Natsu Dragoneel - DK
Kutsumo - NB0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Kutsuu because I wanted to add onto your response. We be tag teaming this (insert word here) up in here!
Edit: lol, im being silly atm.Edited by Waffennacht on 23 November 2016 20:110 -
Kutsuu✭✭✭✭✭I can't think of too many examples, but I've been hit with Assassin's will from a magblade for 16k with ~17k spell resistance and 2100 impenPC/NA
Envy Me - Sorc
Kutsus - NB
Kutsmuffin - Temp
Kutsuu the Destroyer - NB
Kutsuu - Temp
Natsu Dragoneel - DK
Kutsumo - NB0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Joy: No offense, man, but unless you're a temp, there was no way you could ever beat an equally-skilled stamina player in DB era. I could discuss this, but the majority of the community is pretty set on this on. Not doubting your player skill, but there are just some major advantages to stamina. Also, we're talking real Cyrodiil here, not dueling.
When you make claims such that there is "no way" I could "ever" beat someone equally skilled on a stam toon I am going to disagree because this is hyperbole. I am also not convinced the majority of the community is set on the idea that stam, without proc sets, was indisputably ahead to such an extent that magicka players were not competitive.
Need I remind you and the rest of the extremist community the primary reason we got into this mess in the first place is because stam players exaggerated their weakness to such an extent that Wrobel admitted on ESO Live there was a need for a "stamina patch."
But go on right ahead and claim that I'm not referring to "real" Cyrodiil or whatever that is and keep complaining that it is magicka is a hopeless cause and useless so that Wrobel will feel compelled to overbuff magicka. You know, like he did with the destro ultimate.
I am not saying there are mechanics about stamina that I think need reform - the fact that they can heal with offensive weapons better than I can heal with a crap weapon specifically designed to heal is a huge problem - but if we pretend that magicka is just terrible the pendulum will swing too far the other way. Oh, and I found as long as a mag player doesn't try to open world on a DK, they tend to do all right.
I'm sure many players would prefer lurching back and forth between sucking and being OP simply because when they log into the times they are OP, it soothes their ego, but I prefer to actually have a stable population so I am going to disagree with extremist claims.Edited by Joy_Division on 23 November 2016 21:223 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oh, stamina needed a buff during Vicious Death era - especially stam sorcs. Nightblades and DKs not so much.
Look, I don't feel like discussing this now. If you think stam and mag were fine DB, okay. But let me tell you there is a reason why so many mag sorcs gave up. And why we see WAY less magblades and mag DKs than their stamina counterparts.
Yes, though, dueling situations are not the real Cyrodiil. PvP is groups vs groups mainly and you have to consider that. Something like a shield mitigating two attacks wheras a dodgeroll can mitigate potentially infinite hits needs to be considered and can't just be brushed aside.1 -
Zurxii✭✭Considering I've played this game since release, and beaten pretty much everyone on my console I've dueled at least 50/50, etc..I'm about 100% sure I'm not in the l2p stages, don't get me wrong eye is great, but when Stam users begin to complain that they are getting killed by eye and it needs a nerf; THAT is an issue, considering if they played their class well, and knew what they were doing, they wouldn't die. However being a mag sorc if I'm not playing at 100% and let my shields down once, incap > viper > SA > veli I get glocked.Edited by Zurxii on 23 November 2016 22:31~Out2Kill4