shadowy disguise

Stoopid_Nwah

I was hoping to get some input on a question I had regarding shadowy disguise. I solely gank in Cyrodiil nowadays on my magicka nb (heavy attack from staff with a lotus fan in or swallow soul then ulti if needed). I am very used to relying on my heavy attacks critting from casting shadowy disguise before; on some targets it hits for 25k. My issue is that because I am using heavy attacks from a staff, if I am too far away from my target when I lotus fan in, there are times that lotus fan gets the crit (assuming because it lands first) and I lose out on 5-8k damage on my heavy attack. The same can happen with concealed weapon and swallow soul (I've tried all 3 to see if there was a way to ensure this never happened). This is also not from targets having radiant magelight on their bars; I've tested that out with friends as well.

So, my question is, is this intended? If not, would there be any way at all to fix this? It's kind of a pain testing distances to see travel times on each individual skill, and with moving targets it all becomes quite irrelevant. I realize many people will not find this to be an issue or care, and some will also not care because the word ganking was mentioned so feel free to get all of your git gud, don't care when proc sets are such an issue, ganking is for cowards rage posts out below.

Also, while I'm at it, I would like to again post about heavy attacks missing-not from major evasion or dodge, just straight up missing. I can be right in front of my target and it will fly through them and hit nothing. Any eta on fixing this?

I'll post videos later on when I get a chance!

Sandman929

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

I was hoping to get some input on a question I had regarding shadowy disguise. I solely gank in Cyrodiil nowadays on my magicka nb (heavy attack from staff with a lotus fan in or swallow soul then ulti if needed). I am very used to relying on my heavy attacks critting from casting shadowy disguise before; on some targets it hits for 25k. My issue is that because I am using heavy attacks from a staff, if I am too far away from my target when I lotus fan in, there are times that lotus fan gets the crit (assuming because it lands first) and I lose out on 5-8k damage on my heavy attack. The same can happen with concealed weapon and swallow soul (I've tried all 3 to see if there was a way to ensure this never happened). This is also not from targets having radiant magelight on their bars; I've tested that out with friends as well.

So, my question is, is this intended? If not, would there be any way at all to fix this? It's kind of a pain testing distances to see travel times on each individual skill, and with moving targets it all becomes quite irrelevant. I realize many people will not find this to be an issue or care, and some will also not care because the word ganking was mentioned so feel free to get all of your git gud, don't care when proc sets are such an issue, ganking is for cowards rage posts out below.

Also, while I'm at it, I would like to again post about heavy attacks missing-not from major evasion or dodge, just straight up missing. I can be right in front of my target and it will fly through them and hit nothing. Any eta on fixing this?

I'll post videos later on when I get a chance!

The unreliability of weapon attacks is the worst thing about running destro. If it's not a channel (lightning/resto) staff attacks are likely to fire off in random directions.

thankyourat

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

I was hoping to get some input on a question I had regarding shadowy disguise. I solely gank in Cyrodiil nowadays on my magicka nb (heavy attack from staff with a lotus fan in or swallow soul then ulti if needed). I am very used to relying on my heavy attacks critting from casting shadowy disguise before; on some targets it hits for 25k. My issue is that because I am using heavy attacks from a staff, if I am too far away from my target when I lotus fan in, there are times that lotus fan gets the crit (assuming because it lands first) and I lose out on 5-8k damage on my heavy attack. The same can happen with concealed weapon and swallow soul (I've tried all 3 to see if there was a way to ensure this never happened). This is also not from targets having radiant magelight on their bars; I've tested that out with friends as well.

So, my question is, is this intended? If not, would there be any way at all to fix this? It's kind of a pain testing distances to see travel times on each individual skill, and with moving targets it all becomes quite irrelevant. I realize many people will not find this to be an issue or care, and some will also not care because the word ganking was mentioned so feel free to get all of your git gud, don't care when proc sets are such an issue, ganking is for cowards rage posts out below.

Also, while I'm at it, I would like to again post about heavy attacks missing-not from major evasion or dodge, just straight up missing. I can be right in front of my target and it will fly through them and hit nothing. Any eta on fixing this?

I'll post videos later on when I get a chance!

Wait you get a crit for the heavy attack while using shadowy disguise? I don't even get that lol. I just stop using cloak all together

Stoopid_Nwah

thankyourat wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

I was hoping to get some input on a question I had regarding shadowy disguise. I solely gank in Cyrodiil nowadays on my magicka nb (heavy attack from staff with a lotus fan in or swallow soul then ulti if needed). I am very used to relying on my heavy attacks critting from casting shadowy disguise before; on some targets it hits for 25k. My issue is that because I am using heavy attacks from a staff, if I am too far away from my target when I lotus fan in, there are times that lotus fan gets the crit (assuming because it lands first) and I lose out on 5-8k damage on my heavy attack. The same can happen with concealed weapon and swallow soul (I've tried all 3 to see if there was a way to ensure this never happened). This is also not from targets having radiant magelight on their bars; I've tested that out with friends as well.

So, my question is, is this intended? If not, would there be any way at all to fix this? It's kind of a pain testing distances to see travel times on each individual skill, and with moving targets it all becomes quite irrelevant. I realize many people will not find this to be an issue or care, and some will also not care because the word ganking was mentioned so feel free to get all of your git gud, don't care when proc sets are such an issue, ganking is for cowards rage posts out below.

Also, while I'm at it, I would like to again post about heavy attacks missing-not from major evasion or dodge, just straight up missing. I can be right in front of my target and it will fly through them and hit nothing. Any eta on fixing this?

I'll post videos later on when I get a chance!

Wait you get a crit for the heavy attack while using shadowy disguise? I don't even get that lol. I just stop using cloak all together

Yeah lol it just is a toss up if it will be the first attack to land...or if it will even hit the target. And yeah I only use cloak in my gank build. Most unreliable skill ever.

Xvorg

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

I was hoping to get some input on a question I had regarding shadowy disguise. I solely gank in Cyrodiil nowadays on my magicka nb (heavy attack from staff with a lotus fan in or swallow soul then ulti if needed). I am very used to relying on my heavy attacks critting from casting shadowy disguise before; on some targets it hits for 25k. My issue is that because I am using heavy attacks from a staff, if I am too far away from my target when I lotus fan in, there are times that lotus fan gets the crit (assuming because it lands first) and I lose out on 5-8k damage on my heavy attack. The same can happen with concealed weapon and swallow soul (I've tried all 3 to see if there was a way to ensure this never happened). This is also not from targets having radiant magelight on their bars; I've tested that out with friends as well.

So, my question is, is this intended? If not, would there be any way at all to fix this? It's kind of a pain testing distances to see travel times on each individual skill, and with moving targets it all becomes quite irrelevant. I realize many people will not find this to be an issue or care, and some will also not care because the word ganking was mentioned so feel free to get all of your git gud, don't care when proc sets are such an issue, ganking is for cowards rage posts out below.

Also, while I'm at it, I would like to again post about heavy attacks missing-not from major evasion or dodge, just straight up missing. I can be right in front of my target and it will fly through them and hit nothing. Any eta on fixing this?

I'll post videos later on when I get a chance!

Wait you get a crit for the heavy attack while using shadowy disguise? I don't even get that lol. I just stop using cloak all together

Yeah lol it just is a toss up if it will be the first attack to land...or if it will even hit the target. And yeah I only use cloak in my gank build. Most unreliable skill ever.

I had a build like 2 years ago which had this rotation:

Full heavy -> lotus -> (CW)-> destro CLENCH -> soul assault/light attacks (if merc resolve used). I used clench because it gives me me the distance to proceed (and had a good DoT).

Then, everything changed with the CPs

thankyourat

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

I was hoping to get some input on a question I had regarding shadowy disguise. I solely gank in Cyrodiil nowadays on my magicka nb (heavy attack from staff with a lotus fan in or swallow soul then ulti if needed). I am very used to relying on my heavy attacks critting from casting shadowy disguise before; on some targets it hits for 25k. My issue is that because I am using heavy attacks from a staff, if I am too far away from my target when I lotus fan in, there are times that lotus fan gets the crit (assuming because it lands first) and I lose out on 5-8k damage on my heavy attack. The same can happen with concealed weapon and swallow soul (I've tried all 3 to see if there was a way to ensure this never happened). This is also not from targets having radiant magelight on their bars; I've tested that out with friends as well.

So, my question is, is this intended? If not, would there be any way at all to fix this? It's kind of a pain testing distances to see travel times on each individual skill, and with moving targets it all becomes quite irrelevant. I realize many people will not find this to be an issue or care, and some will also not care because the word ganking was mentioned so feel free to get all of your git gud, don't care when proc sets are such an issue, ganking is for cowards rage posts out below.

Also, while I'm at it, I would like to again post about heavy attacks missing-not from major evasion or dodge, just straight up missing. I can be right in front of my target and it will fly through them and hit nothing. Any eta on fixing this?

I'll post videos later on when I get a chance!

Wait you get a crit for the heavy attack while using shadowy disguise? I don't even get that lol. I just stop using cloak all together

Yeah lol it just is a toss up if it will be the first attack to land...or if it will even hit the target. And yeah I only use cloak in my gank build. Most unreliable skill ever.

Yea I've noticed that too, my light attacks also don't land sometimes for unknown reasons along with my spectral bow, which will activate then just disappear. Magblade is just supper buggy

CapuchinSeven

Sandman929 wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

I was hoping to get some input on a question I had regarding shadowy disguise. I solely gank in Cyrodiil nowadays on my magicka nb (heavy attack from staff with a lotus fan in or swallow soul then ulti if needed). I am very used to relying on my heavy attacks critting from casting shadowy disguise before; on some targets it hits for 25k. My issue is that because I am using heavy attacks from a staff, if I am too far away from my target when I lotus fan in, there are times that lotus fan gets the crit (assuming because it lands first) and I lose out on 5-8k damage on my heavy attack. The same can happen with concealed weapon and swallow soul (I've tried all 3 to see if there was a way to ensure this never happened). This is also not from targets having radiant magelight on their bars; I've tested that out with friends as well.

So, my question is, is this intended? If not, would there be any way at all to fix this? It's kind of a pain testing distances to see travel times on each individual skill, and with moving targets it all becomes quite irrelevant. I realize many people will not find this to be an issue or care, and some will also not care because the word ganking was mentioned so feel free to get all of your git gud, don't care when proc sets are such an issue, ganking is for cowards rage posts out below.

Also, while I'm at it, I would like to again post about heavy attacks missing-not from major evasion or dodge, just straight up missing. I can be right in front of my target and it will fly through them and hit nothing. Any eta on fixing this?

I'll post videos later on when I get a chance!

The unreliability of weapon attacks is the worst thing about running destro. If it's not a channel (lightning/resto) staff attacks are likely to fire off in random directions.

Not running destro right now, but I notice strange stuff with it sometimes when using heavy attacks. Almost like my character has locked on to someone, totally screws you up.

Also yes, many of us seem to get random results with the crit from cloak and heavy attack.

Lava_Croft

Quit playing with Destro because it seems impossible to reliably get Shadowy Disguise crits with heavy attacks.

At this point bothering ZOS with these types of things seems like a waste of effort.

Stoopid_Nwah

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

I was hoping to get some input on a question I had regarding shadowy disguise. I solely gank in Cyrodiil nowadays on my magicka nb (heavy attack from staff with a lotus fan in or swallow soul then ulti if needed). I am very used to relying on my heavy attacks critting from casting shadowy disguise before; on some targets it hits for 25k. My issue is that because I am using heavy attacks from a staff, if I am too far away from my target when I lotus fan in, there are times that lotus fan gets the crit (assuming because it lands first) and I lose out on 5-8k damage on my heavy attack. The same can happen with concealed weapon and swallow soul (I've tried all 3 to see if there was a way to ensure this never happened). This is also not from targets having radiant magelight on their bars; I've tested that out with friends as well.

So, my question is, is this intended? If not, would there be any way at all to fix this? It's kind of a pain testing distances to see travel times on each individual skill, and with moving targets it all becomes quite irrelevant. I realize many people will not find this to be an issue or care, and some will also not care because the word ganking was mentioned so feel free to get all of your git gud, don't care when proc sets are such an issue, ganking is for cowards rage posts out below.

Also, while I'm at it, I would like to again post about heavy attacks missing-not from major evasion or dodge, just straight up missing. I can be right in front of my target and it will fly through them and hit nothing. Any eta on fixing this?

I'll post videos later on when I get a chance!

The unreliability of weapon attacks is the worst thing about running destro. If it's not a channel (lightning/resto) staff attacks are likely to fire off in random directions.

Not running destro right now, but I notice strange stuff with it sometimes when using heavy attacks. Almost like my character has locked on to someone, totally screws you up.

Also yes, many of us seem to get random results with the crit from cloak and heavy attack.

Thanks I was just curious if I was doing something without realizing it, causing the randomness of if the heavy attack got the crit or not, but hearing others having the same issue just makes me see just how much buggier magblades are than I previously thought.

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Quit playing with Destro because it seems impossible to reliably get Shadowy Disguise crits with heavy attacks.

At this point bothering ZOS with these types of things seems like a waste of effort.

I agree zos probably won't look into this, the heavy attacks missing, or how much weaving with funnel sucks, but at least I can say I brought it out there. It could have very well been something odd with what I was doing that caused the above issues mentioned, which would have been an easy fix. Either way, it's getting more and more sad watching magblades disappear due to so many of their skills being extremely unreliable.

But sure, the most logical course action must be to stop using the one magicka dps weapon out there, good call .

Bazeric

Isn't this because the crit timer is shorter than charging a fully loaded heavy (especially if poor ping)? That's what I remember noticing. I don't use cloak on my when I use destro, though as I prefer range and mobility from cripple/mist+LoS, since cloak is unreliable at range anymore. I mostly use some DoTs and Swallow+Medium Attack weaving until I proc Assassin's Will, then I do a heavy combo (add ult as necessary). Of course with shuffle users I only ever see "dodged"...

I do remember, though, when I would do cloak+heavy+reach+lotus because it looked so cool. Can't recall it being anymore effective than other ranged combos, but it felt good. I don't like using lotus fan when ranged because you then become un-ranged.

thankyourat

Bazeric wrote: »

Isn't this because the crit timer is shorter than charging a fully loaded heavy (especially if poor ping)? That's what I remember noticing. I don't use cloak on my when I use destro, though as I prefer range and mobility from cripple/mist+LoS, since cloak is unreliable at range anymore. I mostly use some DoTs and Swallow+Medium Attack weaving until I proc Assassin's Will, then I do a heavy combo (add ult as necessary). Of course with shuffle users I only ever see "dodged"...

I do remember, though, when I would do cloak+heavy+reach+lotus because it looked so cool. Can't recall it being anymore effective than other ranged combos, but it felt good. I don't like using lotus fan when ranged because you then become un-ranged.

The timer is still active for 3 seconds after cloak is done I believe so if you start it while you are cloak you have about 6 seconds to get a crit. I was testing it with staff light attacks as well and I was still not getting the guaranteed crit chance

Stoopid_Nwah

thankyourat wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

Isn't this because the crit timer is shorter than charging a fully loaded heavy (especially if poor ping)? That's what I remember noticing. I don't use cloak on my when I use destro, though as I prefer range and mobility from cripple/mist+LoS, since cloak is unreliable at range anymore. I mostly use some DoTs and Swallow+Medium Attack weaving until I proc Assassin's Will, then I do a heavy combo (add ult as necessary). Of course with shuffle users I only ever see "dodged"...

I do remember, though, when I would do cloak+heavy+reach+lotus because it looked so cool. Can't recall it being anymore effective than other ranged combos, but it felt good. I don't like using lotus fan when ranged because you then become un-ranged.

The timer is still active for 3 seconds after cloak is done I believe so if you start it while you are cloak you have about 6 seconds to get a crit. I was testing it with staff light attacks as well and I was still not getting the guaranteed crit chance

Yeah I used a friend as a combat dummy and if I was about 10 meters away doing the heavy lotus combo I alway got a crit. I'll test light attacks tonight if I get a chance. Maybe it doesn't apply to them (staff attacks) and I was just noticing my higher crit rating applying to heavies...it would explain the randomness.

And yeah @Bazeric I believe the timer runs a bit but I am just coming out of cloak as my heavy attack hits. So at least when I do it I have enough time?

DeanTheCat

Destruction Stave heavy attacks take 2.5 seconds to travel from 0m to 36m (The maximum engagement range in PvP). You need 2 seconds to fully charge a Destruction Stave heavy attack. The precision buff lasts for 0.9 seconds. This means that the buff doesn't last long enough for the projectile to actually connect. Snipe (and it's morphs) also suffer from this problem.

Hexys

Let them fix cloak first,,, again.

Lava_Croft

The only time Shadow Cloak worked semi-decent the forums were rife with threads from people complaining about the ability being OP and in response ZOS added so many counters to it that I lost track of them all.

Stoopid_Nwah

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Destruction Stave heavy attacks take 2.5 seconds to travel from 0m to 36m (The maximum engagement range in PvP). You need 2 seconds to fully charge a Destruction Stave heavy attack. The precision buff lasts for 0.9 seconds. This means that the buff doesn't last long enough for the projectile to actually connect. Snipe (and it's morphs) also suffer from this problem.

Thank you for this! I'm on console so a lot of what I see is just me guessing. So if the .9 second timer starts as soon as cloak ends, that's why I'm seeing that I can get a crit with the heavy attack if I'm close enough to the target then?

Hexys wrote: »

Let them fix cloak first,,, again.

I'd love for cloak to be fixed, trust me I really would, but we all know it probably won't happen. So many in pvp that aren't a nb will whine like crazy because they're too lazy or incompetent to equip an aoe, magelight, or detect pots .

Lava_Croft

No competent NB is going to get caught when you spam some PBAoE.
No competent NB is going to get caught when you spam Magelight.
Using your potion cooldown just to counter a single ability?

I love me some Shadow Cloak, but in many situations there's simply not a decent counter for it, even though there are many intended counters. Fixed Shadow Cloak requires a redesign of the way the ability works.

thankyourat

Lava_Croft wrote: »

No competent NB is going to get caught when you spam some PBAoE.
No competent NB is going to get caught when you spam Magelight.
Using your potion cooldown just to counter a single ability?

I love me some Shadow Cloak, but in many situations there's simply not a decent counter for it, even though there are many intended counters. Fixed Shadow Cloak requires a redesign of the way the ability works.

I think we are using two different cloaks. A simple gap closer like ambush will pull you out of cloak, templars main spammable, dks talons, sorcs curse all pull you out of cloak along with cloak just randomly not working. I really don't even see a point to use it anymore unless you are a stamblade wearing medium armor. If you are light armor annulment is a much defensive ability along with double take, and if you are in heavy just go sword and board. Not to mention as a magblade it's impossible to fit on your bar I don't even know what skill I could give up for cloak in its current form

Stoopid_Nwah

Lava_Croft wrote: »

No competent NB is going to get caught when you spam some PBAoE.
No competent NB is going to get caught when you spam Magelight.
Using your potion cooldown just to counter a single ability?

I love me some Shadow Cloak, but in many situations there's simply not a decent counter for it, even though there are many intended counters. Fixed Shadow Cloak requires a redesign of the way the ability works.

Lol I agree with @thankyourat, you must have a different version of cloak. It is single handedly the most unreliable skill in this game, and I'm including when toppling charge was a gamble. The only way any nb is going to get away with cloak from competent players is with using shadow image or a well-timed fear cancelled with a dodge roll into cloak. And keep in mind I'm not talking about escaping from one player, but rather, a group of players that know what they're doing. Especially if they have a gapcloser on their bar.

I use cloak and would say my escape rate is quite good, around 95%, but I also use concealed weapon, rapids, and shadow image which most normal nb builds just can't fit on their bars.

Lava_Croft

Hence a fixed Shadow Cloak. Currently the only real effective counters to Shadow Cloak exist purely because Shadow Cloak is broken.