Let's be honest here. There is definitely a problem with the current meta

Minalan

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

Pssst,
use Armor Penetration like from Kra'gh, Spriggans Thorn and Sharpened and Black Rose is just a bunch of scrap metal within seconds.

Can someone check my math here?

I'm running a spinner set (the magicka spriggan).

At cap, 33000 armor is 50% mitigation. 4000 penetration is going to be a dip to 29000 armor and 44% mitigation.

Down the line, it's a 6% damage increase unless you've already dropped a light armor guy to zero.

Waffennacht

Minalan wrote: »

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

Pssst,
use Armor Penetration like from Kra'gh, Spriggans Thorn and Sharpened and Black Rose is just a bunch of scrap metal within seconds.

Can someone check my math here?

I'm running a spinner set (the magicka spriggan).

At cap, 33000 armor is 50% mitigation. 4000 penetration is going to be a dip to 29000 armor and 44% mitigation.

Down the line, it's a 6% damage increase unless you've already dropped a light armor guy to zero.

Yes? Seems pretty right

Wreuntzylla

Minalan wrote: »

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

Pssst,
use Armor Penetration like from Kra'gh, Spriggans Thorn and Sharpened and Black Rose is just a bunch of scrap metal within seconds.

Can someone check my math here?

I'm running a spinner set (the magicka spriggan).

At cap, 33000 armor is 50% mitigation. 4000 penetration is going to be a dip to 29000 armor and 44% mitigation.

Down the line, it's a 6% damage increase unless you've already dropped a light armor guy to zero.

Stack penetration. You can't have a dot build, but any direct damage build wrecks face.

Many of the sources of penetration are not on the buff system...

Takes-No-Prisoner

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

There's been a problem with the meta since thieves guild . I'm grinding all the new sets to see if anything makes a difference for Majika . At least now dueling makes testing way easier . I can get my survivability up to maintain a fight against black rose but I'm still working on how to create enough burst damage to make a useful dent . It seems I'm not alone in the damage department as I've seen others pounding away and not landing significant dps .

The journey to get gud continues ...

The journey of L2P is indeed a long and dusty road. Hope you got some good sandals for those warm sands sir.

Kudos on grinding up those sets btw, something I couldn't bring myself to ever do. Should post your findings too, that would be pretty cool.

Minno

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

Pssst,
use Armor Penetration like from Kra'gh, Spriggans Thorn and Sharpened and Black Rose is just a bunch of scrap metal within seconds.

Can someone check my math here?

I'm running a spinner set (the magicka spriggan).

At cap, 33000 armor is 50% mitigation. 4000 penetration is going to be a dip to 29000 armor and 44% mitigation.

Down the line, it's a 6% damage increase unless you've already dropped a light armor guy to zero.

Stack penetration. You can't have a dot build, but any direct damage build wrecks face.

Many of the sources of penetration are not on the buff system...

And flip argument is blood spawn is also not tied to the buff system. If you tie blood spawn with armor and CP star that increased physical resistance, it's possible to start to negate penetration. This strategy is easier with spell penetration though despite the diminishing returns.

Lokey0024

Vigor and rally are better heals then most abilities in game. Rework vigor to where it doesnt heal for 5k per second. If you have to midigate dmg using block/dodgeroll instead of just mending and vitality to heal thru the damage then it might change the gear set ups and enchanting of armor/jewelry. Resources might actually have to be maintained, damage not stacked thru the roof, and a semblance of skill brought back into pvp.

Rally takes time so i believe it to be fine.

ManDraKE

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Vigor and rally are better heals then most abilities in game. Rework vigor to where it doesnt heal for 5k per second.e.

5k per second? In PvP heals are cut in half, even with 100 points into blessed and major mending you won't get even half of that.

Sandman929

ManDraKE wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Vigor and rally are better heals then most abilities in game. Rework vigor to where it doesnt heal for 5k per second.e.

5k per second? In PvP heals are cut in half, even with 100 points into blessed and major mending you won't get even half of that.

I get half that all the time...2-2.5k/sec is pretty much the norm on my stam characters. Add in the HoT from Rally, with the burst at the end, and stam heals are ridiculous.
5k/sec is a bit of an exaggeration though.

Thelon

Erock25 wrote: »

No, you usually die horribly. I was like hey there's that guy who does the pet solo dungeons annnnnddd he's dead.

You sound like a fresh cut yukon gold potatoe deep-fried in zergbad

thankyourat

Waffennacht wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Ashnunn wrote: »

Black Rose = one of the small amount of counters to the "wear 3 proc sets and let my armour kill my target" meta

Black Rose = mix it in with those same proc sets and be almost invincible.

Blackrose/Tremorscale/Viper's Sting is allowing players to oneshot their enemies you say? well that's totally okay! #balance

In this set up, why on earth would black rose out perform... hundlings or draugr hulk? 150 weapon damage and max stam < x3 max stam and 2500 stam... roughly 250 more weapon dmg than black rose...

If you're worried about taking damage, than many more set out perform black rose. If you're running outta resources (at all) you need to change your build. There is absolutely no reason to run out of resources in battle (only exception would be 1vX or against poisons)

Aka black rose resource management can be obtained with almost any set, and many sets out perform the damage of black rose.

These threads remind me of the, "nerf cloak, it's OP!" Threads of the day, they needed to L2P back then too.

It's heavy armor in general that's too strong when combined with proc sets it's not black rose exclusive. I would argue that the resource management of black rose out performs other heavy armor sets when it comes to resource management because

ManDraKE wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Vigor and rally are better heals then most abilities in game. Rework vigor to where it doesnt heal for 5k per second.e.

5k per second? In PvP heals are cut in half, even with 100 points into blessed and major mending you won't get even half of that.

In 5 heavy you can get 3k vigor ticks per second on a stam dk no problem

Lokey0024

30 into blessed and major mending/vitality. You lose out on about 5% dmg and gain 10% healing. That, and dont forget about crit, i get 4k-5k vigor ticks, dependant on proximity to keeps

SilentBoomstick

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Black Rose isn't an issue....I'm not going to even bother reading all the QQ from the nobodies. The problem in Cyrodiil is all the Proc'tologists running around. It's a complete joke. The only sets that are even close to balanced are the magicka monster ones and that's the reason no one uses them...they're out performed by their stamina counterparts that are used by coincidentally all the magicka bads who rerolled.

I mean LOL at the 5% proc clanfear set, LOL @ the 2k lava swirls, or the 5k dmg shield that does a whopping 900 dmg in proximity. I mean, I dont see the 2pc Vel set targeting the furthest enemy from you....

And an absolute must....Vigor needs a rework. Lore, RP, the previous 160 MMOs before this one.....most follow some logic here that you dont take your highest burst/melee swinging classes and give them an OP HoT/Heal too. Just like you dont take your squishiest robe wearing class and nerf the FAQ outta their mobility and give the OP stamtards gap closers

-Makkir

I think you probably already know that validreth proc is broken. It is way more than 20%. I ran into a player that kept killing me with 5 vipers and 2 validreth animation cancel. I was about to rage quit not because he kept killing me but because his 2 pc validreth was literally a 100% chance to proc considering the fact that I got hit by it every single time I opened up the death recap.

It's just like shuffle. It's incredibly overpowered because it's broken and everybody uses and abuses it.

I also have a problem knowing that magicka does not do the same amount of dps as stamina does. Stamina is broken right now. It's way too overpowered and I don't like how cheesy all stamina builds are. They should have never had this system in place where they cater to certain playstyles with each update.

Minalan

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Black Rose isn't an issue....I'm not going to even bother reading all the QQ from the nobodies. The problem in Cyrodiil is all the Proc'tologists running around. It's a complete joke. The only sets that are even close to balanced are the magicka monster ones and that's the reason no one uses them...they're out performed by their stamina counterparts that are used by coincidentally all the magicka bads who rerolled.

I mean LOL at the 5% proc clanfear set, LOL @ the 2k lava swirls, or the 5k dmg shield that does a whopping 900 dmg in proximity. I mean, I dont see the 2pc Vel set targeting the furthest enemy from you....

And an absolute must....Vigor needs a rework. Lore, RP, the previous 160 MMOs before this one.....most follow some logic here that you dont take your highest burst/melee swinging classes and give them an OP HoT/Heal too. Just like you dont take your squishiest robe wearing class and nerf the FAQ outta their mobility and give the OP stamtards gap closers

-Makkir

I think you probably already know that validreth proc is broken. It is way more than 20%. I ran into a player that kept killing me with 5 vipers and 2 validreth animation cancel. I was about to rage quit not because he kept killing me but because his 2 pc validreth was literally a 100% chance to proc considering the fact that I got hit by it every single time I opened up the death recap.

It's just like shuffle. It's incredibly overpowered because it's broken and everybody uses and abuses it.

I also have a problem knowing that magicka does not do the same amount of dps as stamina does. Stamina is broken right now. It's way too overpowered and I don't like how cheesy all stamina builds are. They should have never had this system in place where they cater to certain playstyles with each update.

You've got to love the new Guardian set. Cast shield and 50% chance to instantly aggro the flag carrier in the sewers, or one of the wandering super-bosses in IC. Anyone but the nightblade trying to GANK you.

Then they made stormfist. A lightning atro monster set, and gave it to stamina. 8K PHYSICAL damage, and some tiny amount of shock. I don't even...

Why do the ZOS developers hate us so? Please tell us what the naughty magicka Sorc did to you so we can apologize...

Lokey0024

Minalan wrote: »

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Black Rose isn't an issue....I'm not going to even bother reading all the QQ from the nobodies. The problem in Cyrodiil is all the Proc'tologists running around. It's a complete joke. The only sets that are even close to balanced are the magicka monster ones and that's the reason no one uses them...they're out performed by their stamina counterparts that are used by coincidentally all the magicka bads who rerolled.

I mean LOL at the 5% proc clanfear set, LOL @ the 2k lava swirls, or the 5k dmg shield that does a whopping 900 dmg in proximity. I mean, I dont see the 2pc Vel set targeting the furthest enemy from you....

And an absolute must....Vigor needs a rework. Lore, RP, the previous 160 MMOs before this one.....most follow some logic here that you dont take your highest burst/melee swinging classes and give them an OP HoT/Heal too. Just like you dont take your squishiest robe wearing class and nerf the FAQ outta their mobility and give the OP stamtards gap closers

-Makkir

I think you probably already know that validreth proc is broken. It is way more than 20%. I ran into a player that kept killing me with 5 vipers and 2 validreth animation cancel. I was about to rage quit not because he kept killing me but because his 2 pc validreth was literally a 100% chance to proc considering the fact that I got hit by it every single time I opened up the death recap.

It's just like shuffle. It's incredibly overpowered because it's broken and everybody uses and abuses it.

I also have a problem knowing that magicka does not do the same amount of dps as stamina does. Stamina is broken right now. It's way too overpowered and I don't like how cheesy all stamina builds are. They should have never had this system in place where they cater to certain playstyles with each update.

You've got to love the new Guardian set. Cast shield and 50% chance to instantly aggro the flag carrier in the sewers, or one of the wandering super-bosses in IC. Anyone but the nightblade trying to GANK you.

Then they made stormfist. A lightning atro monster set, and gave it to stamina. 8K PHYSICAL damage, and some tiny amount of shock. I don't even...

Why do the ZOS developers hate us so? Please tell us what the naughty magicka Sorc did to you so we can apologize...

You ran around with 15k health, 30k shields and streaked to the horizon against Hurricane Wrobel to many times.

Xsorus

Minalan wrote: »

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Black Rose isn't an issue....I'm not going to even bother reading all the QQ from the nobodies. The problem in Cyrodiil is all the Proc'tologists running around. It's a complete joke. The only sets that are even close to balanced are the magicka monster ones and that's the reason no one uses them...they're out performed by their stamina counterparts that are used by coincidentally all the magicka bads who rerolled.

I mean LOL at the 5% proc clanfear set, LOL @ the 2k lava swirls, or the 5k dmg shield that does a whopping 900 dmg in proximity. I mean, I dont see the 2pc Vel set targeting the furthest enemy from you....

And an absolute must....Vigor needs a rework. Lore, RP, the previous 160 MMOs before this one.....most follow some logic here that you dont take your highest burst/melee swinging classes and give them an OP HoT/Heal too. Just like you dont take your squishiest robe wearing class and nerf the FAQ outta their mobility and give the OP stamtards gap closers

-Makkir

I think you probably already know that validreth proc is broken. It is way more than 20%. I ran into a player that kept killing me with 5 vipers and 2 validreth animation cancel. I was about to rage quit not because he kept killing me but because his 2 pc validreth was literally a 100% chance to proc considering the fact that I got hit by it every single time I opened up the death recap.

It's just like shuffle. It's incredibly overpowered because it's broken and everybody uses and abuses it.

I also have a problem knowing that magicka does not do the same amount of dps as stamina does. Stamina is broken right now. It's way too overpowered and I don't like how cheesy all stamina builds are. They should have never had this system in place where they cater to certain playstyles with each update.

You've got to love the new Guardian set. Cast shield and 50% chance to instantly aggro the flag carrier in the sewers, or one of the wandering super-bosses in IC. Anyone but the nightblade trying to GANK you.

Then they made stormfist. A lightning atro monster set, and gave it to stamina. 8K PHYSICAL damage, and some tiny amount of shock. I don't even...

Why do the ZOS developers hate us so? Please tell us what the naughty magicka Sorc did to you so we can apologize...

Stormfist doesn't appear to be modified by CP points

Lewandowsky

Well. It seems most think that either heavy should get changes or dps sets often used with heavy should be changed. Instead of leveling up an imperial so that the build gets nerfed about the time I finish I'll stick to my magsorc. And my stamblade ganker will continue to cower at the scary cyrodiil that laughs at his stealthed snipes. Maybe he'll come back around...

Crom_CCCXVI

LOL, obviously a nightblade complaining because he wasn't able to Fear then kill every single player he came across.


I often play a tank, I can't kill your nightblade.... should I complain that my tank sets don't do enough damage? Since you apparently think that my defensive sets are overpowered because you can't take me out in 3 seconds?


Reactive is in my wardrobe, but it isn't even close to the best set for group PvP. Against anything other than a nightblade there are many better sets.

PS. Black Rose is just a solid generic set. Someone calls something the META and all the sheep start bahhhhhing.

Paraflex

All the proc sets are the real problem...just go PvP look at your death recap and see how many times your hit by viper/tremor/velidreth/widowmaker....it's sad

caeliusstarbreaker

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

I am confused how black rose is cancer? The only thing it provides dmg wise is one spell/wep dmg bonus. The constitution buff is pure sustain (only equivilent to less than 300@ regen in 5 heavy) and fits the theme of heavy armor fine.

And yet I see ppl QQing still? Why are you naming black rose? The dmg you QQ about is from proc sets and heavy armor's Wrath passive (which only gives up to 200). And you know what else? Heavy armor loses the 5k spell/armor penetration that light/med armor get. And going on about the heal buff? 7% in 7/7 heavy and that gets halved in Cyrodiil.

Perhaps what perplexes me most about the whole black rose QQ on the forums is that ppl just aren't doing the math and trying to show the supposed broken OPness through undisputable calculation. Instead we just get all these allegories about evil heavy armor users face tanking and killing everything 1vX.

Almost like DPS'rs are jumping on a bandwagon cuz they can't burst heavy armor as easy.

Why do ppl give up cost reduction, regen, and armor pen to wear heavy armor? Cuz they get tired of being blown up by the out of control proctard builds. That's the aspect of the game that needs to be balanced first before worrying about armor types.

Medium doesn't get penetration.

Sandman929

Black Rose is just a good, heavy Stam set that's readily available in Impen, no farming and relying on RnG for the correct trait. Constitution is decent for resource returns, the BR buff makes Constitution merely good. Heavy armor resistance combined with ridiculous proc damage is at the heart of the "BR is OP" complaints.

It's not BR, BR is nothing magical, it's just a good stam set.
Procs are the crap that needs to be reevaluated.

SilentBoomstick

Sandman929 wrote: »

Black Rose is just a good, heavy Stam set that's readily available in Impen, no farming and relying on RnG for the correct trait. Constitution is decent for resource returns, the BR buff makes Constitution merely good. Heavy armor resistance combined with ridiculous proc damage is at the heart of the "BR is OP" complaints.

It's not BR, BR is nothing magical, it's just a good stam set.
Procs are the crap that needs to be reevaluated.

After the shadow of the hists update I did not want to change builds and run that cancerous proc build. However I stopped caring after a while and there was no point in wearing medium anymore due to the fact that they heavily buffed heavy armor and then in this update they also added more proc sets to choose from as if it was not bad enough already. Plus viper now procs from the bow however I am using sword and board because shield bash is broken as well. I've hit some people for like 10k with a shield bash.

Lava_Croft

Reactive, Transmutation and Malubeth.

Be the bigger troll.

SilentBoomstick

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Reactive, Transmutation and Malubeth.

Be the bigger troll.

Lol that's what I'm using for a maglplah. I never die LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Prabooo

potatoes, potatus, potates, it is all the same

ManDraKE

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Reactive, Transmutation and Malubeth.

Be the bigger troll.

Lol that's what I'm using for a maglplah. I never die LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and you never get kills. Classic zombie magplar.

SilentBoomstick

ManDraKE wrote: »

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Reactive, Transmutation and Malubeth.

Be the bigger troll.

Lol that's what I'm using for a maglplah. I never die LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and you never get kills. Classic zombie magplar.

Actually I get a lot of kills. The damage output is fine which I don't understand and then I can literally take so much damage and never ever die. I saw a video where malubeth ticked for 22k.

Ishammael

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Reactive, Transmutation and Malubeth.

Be the bigger troll.

I prefer Fassallas, transmute, malu when trolling.

Lava_Croft

ManDraKE wrote: »

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Reactive, Transmutation and Malubeth.

Be the bigger troll.

Lol that's what I'm using for a maglplah. I never die LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and you never get kills. Classic zombie magplar.

Jesus Beam begs to differ. Lots of kills using this ridiculous 'execute'.

Ishammael wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Reactive, Transmutation and Malubeth.

Be the bigger troll.

I prefer Fassallas, transmute, malu when trolling.

Too much CC to not use Reactive.

ManDraKE

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Jesus Beam begs to differ. Lots of kills using this ridiculous 'execute'.

Standing behind a 40man zerg spamming RD is not what i would call "getting a kill"

Lava_Croft

ManDraKE wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Jesus Beam begs to differ. Lots of kills using this ridiculous 'execute'.

Standing behind a 40man zerg spamming RD is not what i would call "getting a kill"

Kills are kills. AP is AP. Your personal definition of kills is irrelevant to both me and the game. You don't get any extra rewards for doing it left-handed.