Let's be honest here. There is definitely a problem with the current meta

SilentBoomstick

I know that I'm going to get a lot of hate for this but I don't care because you know that I'm right. I have 6 characters and out out 2 of them is wearing black rose on it. I think that there is a huge problem with the fact that I am practically walking around with 30k physical and spell resistance and yet I am able to melt people down to almost nothing. 1) I take like no damage whatsoever and my heals are stronger and 2) My damage is pretty much just as strong as my nightblade. At this point I don't even want to play my nightblade anymore just because of how many failed ganks I am beginning to have when pretty much every person that plays this game follows the huddled masses and makes the exact same character build within each update. I made a post earlier about leaving incap alone and I'm probably going to stop playing it if they nerf it because they have absolutely no defensive abilities and rely completely on offense. I very seriously believe that the people that don't agree with my play the same exact setup and just tell me to L2P.

There is no amount of get good involved when it comes down to running into a tanky player that does high dps. Walking around with 30k physical resistance/spell resistance along with high dps is not balance at all. There needs to be a punishment for people that want to be tanky like adding softcaps back to the game again. I don't know why they had to remove softcaps but it was a really bad idea.

rolandlu7prb18_ESO

L2P. No, just joking. BR is a problem, but the bigger problem is proc sets, until they are fixed, this game is broken.

zuto40

L2P

Waffennacht

Get Gud

Ashnunn

Black Rose = one of the small amount of counters to the "wear 3 proc sets and let my armour kill my target" meta

Kas

I really don't understand this forum's obsession with black rose. Sure, i also own the set, but tbh if I use it (instead of reactive or fasallas) it feels like I just STOPPED abusing the truely insane sets...

RinaldoGandolphi

The problem isn't Black Rose itself, its the changes to Heavy Armor as a whole.

Heavy Armor was intended to be a tanking gear, but it was not very good at that in PVP. Then they added the Wrath passive and that just turned it into "Medium Armor with better healing and more tankiness"

Simply put the Wrath Passive needs to be changed, instead of it giving you weapon and spell damage when you take damage, it needs to reduce the cost of breaking free by 5% per piece of Heavy Armor equipped at rank 2.

The Juggernaut passive needs to reduce the cost of blocking by 1% per piece of heavy armor equipped, and increase the amount of damage blocked by 1% per piece of heavy armor equipped.

This would fix heavy armor and make it a tanking set again instead of a damage set. #tanklivesmatter

however, balance is so fisted at this point that Black Rose is just a small tip of the glaring issues with the game right now.

CapuchinSeven

BR is pretty powerful, but it really doesn't seem like it's a huge problem to me, it's got nothing on the stupid proct sets.

loyalhabsfan

If you can't see how ridiculously OP Black Rose is, smh.

Sustain

Black Rose > Hundings/Eternal Hunt

Tankiness

Black Rose > Any medium armor set by a long shot, regardless of trait

Damage

Black Rose = Hundings

Heals

Thanks to heavy armor passives... Black Rose > Hundings

So... why wouldn't I use it? There's no reason not to. That's literally what a META is, people.

Alucardo

loyalhabsfan wrote: »

If you can't see how ridiculously OP Black Rose is, smh.

Sustain

Black Rose > Hundings/Eternal Hunt

Tankiness

Black Rose > Any medium armor set by a long shot, regardless of trait

Damage

Black Rose = Hundings

Heals

Thanks to heavy armor passives... Black Rose > Hundings

So... why wouldn't I use it? There's no reason not to. That's literally what a META is, people.

Firebreathing

Ashen Grip

Therefore, Ashen Grip > Black Rose

On a more serious note - I actually don't use Black Rose on my stam builds. I still use medium, and I won't lie, it's not as easy to survive as it used to be. You get massively rekt by high damage builds and you get uber rekt by strong DoT builds.
I used heavy armor on the same character for a couple of days and the survivability was stupid considering I didn't give up much damage either. I can honestly see why people are using Black Rose.
Gone back to medium armor though and I feel like I'm wearing pillow armor.

ManDraKE

Ashnunn wrote: »

Black Rose = one of the small amount of counters to the "wear 3 proc sets and let my armour kill my target" meta

do you realize that blackrose is what allows players to use viper+velidreth and still be really tanky? Withouth BR, people using that combination would be really easy to kill, which adds some kind of balance to it. But BR+Viper+Velidreth is way too good, is literally the perfect setup for almost every situation, insane damage, good sustastain, good healing (HA passives), really tanky (HA resistences + HA max HP). Is tank+healing+dps all in one setup.

mtwiggz

This thread needs more waffles.

glavius

Funny you whine about 30k resists by wearing Black rose. Pretty sure my sorc with Black rose and 6 hvy has like 22k buffed

SilentBoomstick

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The problem isn't Black Rose itself, its the changes to Heavy Armor as a whole.

Heavy Armor was intended to be a tanking gear, but it was not very good at that in PVP. Then they added the Wrath passive and that just turned it into "Medium Armor with better healing and more tankiness"

Simply put the Wrath Passive needs to be changed, instead of it giving you weapon and spell damage when you take damage, it needs to reduce the cost of breaking free by 5% per piece of Heavy Armor equipped at rank 2.

The Juggernaut passive needs to reduce the cost of blocking by 1% per piece of heavy armor equipped, and increase the amount of damage blocked by 1% per piece of heavy armor equipped.

This would fix heavy armor and make it a tanking set again instead of a damage set. #tanklivesmatter

however, balance is so fisted at this point that Black Rose is just a small tip of the glaring issues with the game right now.

In general, yes heavy armor is very powerful. However I am not just talking about heavy armor but I'm also talking about the fact that there are a lot of cancerous setups that I keep running into that involve 5pc black rose armor.

People need to seriously wake up and realize that there is a problem with people that are running around like gods never taking any damage and killing everything in their path.

Kind of off topic but I am getting very tired of each update because in the thieves guild update pretty much the entire game followed the masses and made a magicka nightblade. Dark brotherhood same exact thing, everyone followed the huddled masses very brainlessly and made a stamsorc. Now I don't even see anymore magicka sorcerers in this game and that makes me feel like I want to quit.

Waffennacht wrote: »

Get Gud

It's pretty much people like you that don't care about balance and I'm probably right because you are mostly likely wearing this exact setup, abusing it, and also defending it by telling me to L2P.

Is it not it sad that my 5pc hundings that I made golden is now obsolete so I have decided to start wearing 5pc black rose instead?

Rohamad_Ali

There's been a problem with the meta since thieves guild . I'm grinding all the new sets to see if anything makes a difference for Majika . At least now dueling makes testing way easier . I can get my survivability up to maintain a fight against black rose but I'm still working on how to create enough burst damage to make a useful dent . It seems I'm not alone in the damage department as I've seen others pounding away and not landing significant dps .

The journey to get gud continues ...

Sandman929

I agree with some others in this thread. As long as Death-By-Armor exists, I can't really find fault with a set that doesn't proc it's own damage.
BR is strong, and yeah people are pairing it with the ridiculous damage proc sets, but the problem is that those ridiculous damage proc sets exist. Not BR.

Thelon

this thread is destined to go full potatoe

Waffennacht

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The problem isn't Black Rose itself, its the changes to Heavy Armor as a whole.

Heavy Armor was intended to be a tanking gear, but it was not very good at that in PVP. Then they added the Wrath passive and that just turned it into "Medium Armor with better healing and more tankiness"

Simply put the Wrath Passive needs to be changed, instead of it giving you weapon and spell damage when you take damage, it needs to reduce the cost of breaking free by 5% per piece of Heavy Armor equipped at rank 2.

The Juggernaut passive needs to reduce the cost of blocking by 1% per piece of heavy armor equipped, and increase the amount of damage blocked by 1% per piece of heavy armor equipped.

This would fix heavy armor and make it a tanking set again instead of a damage set. #tanklivesmatter

however, balance is so fisted at this point that Black Rose is just a small tip of the glaring issues with the game right now.

In general, yes heavy armor is very powerful. However I am not just talking about heavy armor but I'm also talking about the fact that there are a lot of cancerous setups that I keep running into that involve 5pc black rose armor.

People need to seriously wake up and realize that there is a problem with people that are running around like gods never taking any damage and killing everything in their path.

Kind of off topic but I am getting very tired of each update because in the thieves guild update pretty much the entire game followed the masses and made a magicka nightblade. Dark brotherhood same exact thing, everyone followed the huddled masses very brainlessly and made a stamsorc. Now I don't even see anymore magicka sorcerers in this game and that makes me feel like I want to quit.

Waffennacht wrote: »

Get Gud

It's pretty much people like you that don't care about balance and I'm probably right because you are mostly likely wearing this exact setup, abusing it, and also defending it by telling me to L2P.

Is it not it sad that my 5pc hundings that I made golden is now obsolete so I have decided to start wearing 5pc black rose instead?

It's people like me that posted on the other thread with math and logic about how BR is not OP but rather on Par with the majority of sets released/being released.

150 dmg, 230 regen, max stam x2 and max health are not OP. Bone tatters is practically the same/better.

No I don't run BR, I run heavy Eternal Hunt. Both produce great sustain while Eternal Hunt hard counters gap closers and provides damage burst. BR gives me a little more damage on each attack. Pretty balanced.

Viper, Widow maker, veli all produce much greater results than BR, have far more kills than BR and are streamed far more often than BR.

Knight Errant produces a vigor like heal indefinitely, gives 200 wpn damage and stat boosts. You have hard time surviving BR? Just wait till you see infinite SnB block Ult + infinite 1k hps + infinite free abilities.

Edit: Here is an example of Not BR producing far better results than BR:

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

https://youtu.be/uGkCsxeeCUQ?t=2m44s

Go to 2 minutes 45 seconds. 2.1k Poison Injection procs a 470 Creeping Ravage Health and a 636 Ravage Health, which procs a 6.5k Widowmaker, which procs a 3.6k Viper's Sting, which procs a 826 Poisoned. 12,032 instant damage from range, on top of two DOTs and 60% increased resource costs, all from them hitting one button. Proc sets really, really need a rebalancing. And, no, giving magic equally unbalanced proc sets isn't balance.

Cathexis

Its hard for me to empathize with you when you sound like you want ganking to be infallible.

Perhaps the reason people walk around in heavy tank is because they aren't interested in continuing to feed the stealth gank macro slice play style and perhaps want fights with substance.

Minno

Sandman929 wrote: »

I agree with some others in this thread. As long as Death-By-Armor exists, I can't really find fault with a set that doesn't proc it's own damage.
BR is strong, and yeah people are pairing it with the ridiculous damage proc sets, but the problem is that those ridiculous damage proc sets exist. Not BR.

Are these sets really that bad? I mean this might be a step closer to having the sets provide DPS while the class skills and weapon lines can provide unique support/dps utility that can create diverse builds.
They just need to review the dmg/healing/mitigation across the board and make the changes for the balance patch.

It wouldn't surprise me if they use the sets to provide a final build identity instead of locking you behind "Templar" or "sorc". It's probably why these class descriptions are still so abstract versus how's they play; the items and gear determine your role while the class helps you focus it.

GreenSoup2HoT

Cathexis wrote: »

Its hard for me to empathize with you when you sound like you want ganking to be infallible.

Perhaps the reason people walk around in heavy tank is because they aren't interested in continuing to feed the stealth gank macro slice play style and perhaps want fights with substance.

If healing wasnt so insane maybe ganking wouldnt be about 1 shot bursts but instead applying initial healing/armour debuffs and wearing down your opponents resourses who were caught off guard from your gank.

This is what the game used to be. I used to be able to gank someone and have a decent fight. I could apply pressure while the player being ganked had to contiune to play defensive and heal or else i would burn em down.

Its stupid easy to reset fights nowadays with 0-100% heals in 1-2 seconds. Gankers are required to 1 shot burst to win a fight now.

At least back in the day when blocking and rolling had stamina regen.. fights had substance. You had to resource fight while keeping buffs up while keeping debuffs applied. Healing wasnt insane back in 1.6 either.

Dont blaim gankers for going the none substance route with 1 shot burst builds since these substance fights you want are not present in the game we have currently because of healing and usally no resource sustain problems. 2 healing builds dueling is not substance fighting in my opinion. Being able to see the faults in someones actions and punishing them is substance.

SilentBoomstick

Hey guys did you notice how all I did was say that heavy armor is too strong but not really suggest nerfing it?

Yes it is way too overpowered and it definitely does need an adjustment but I don't believe that it needs a full blown nerf to destroy it.

It's not just heavy armor (which is is but that only applies to this update for now) but the fact that in each update they change an entire meta and then everyone decides to go make that exact meta so they can all be very annoying. Black rose is the strongest out of all the sets that are in heavy armor and don't lie because you get a lot of stamina with that build so more dps and you also get a lot of tankiness so you are basically walking around like a god in PvP. Yes there are definitely other sets but you cannot compare it to black rose.

I know you are going to use the last paragraph against me but refer back to my first sentence of this post and realize that I just want a few adjustments. No nerfs.

Waffennacht

I don't hate gankers. This is just my opinion and has nothing to do with the game: anything to make ganker's life harder is ok by me.

When we battle both parties are seen and both parties have a chance to actually engage in battle, not this "shot you on your horse another 20 min for you to turn in quest" BS lol

Minalan

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

There's been a problem with the meta since thieves guild . I'm grinding all the new sets to see if anything makes a difference for Majika . At least now dueling makes testing way easier . I can get my survivability up to maintain a fight against black rose but I'm still working on how to create enough burst damage to make a useful dent . It seems I'm not alone in the damage department as I've seen others pounding away and not landing significant dps .

The journey to get gud continues ...

Im doing the same thing. Next up is the spinner set to remove 4K more armor, concentration passive, sharpened trait, and 50 points into spell erosion.

Waffennacht

@SilentBoomstick the Fotm, meta, etc does get changed A lot by ZoS in this game. It's not a balancing act, but a round robin of supremacy. Expect nerfs and buffs every update

Rohamad_Ali

Minno wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

I agree with some others in this thread. As long as Death-By-Armor exists, I can't really find fault with a set that doesn't proc it's own damage.
BR is strong, and yeah people are pairing it with the ridiculous damage proc sets, but the problem is that those ridiculous damage proc sets exist. Not BR.

Are these sets really that bad? I mean this might be a step closer to having the sets provide DPS while the class skills and weapon lines can provide unique support/dps utility that can create diverse builds.
They just need to review the dmg/healing/mitigation across the board and make the changes for the balance patch.

It wouldn't surprise me if they use the sets to provide a final build identity instead of locking you behind "Templar" or "sorc". It's probably why these class descriptions are still so abstract versus how's they play; the items and gear determine your role while the class helps you focus it.

Are these sets that bad ?

Last night Allessia Bridge , 1 person wearing who know exactly what , being pounded on by 15 people for almost 8 minutes straight and never below half health . I went in , use dodge roll to break any malubeth beams and start bashing to interrupt on a Majic class cause no one else is , finally took him down after another 4 minutes .

I'm going to go ahead and say yes . These sets can get pretty darn rediculous .

Waffennacht

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

I agree with some others in this thread. As long as Death-By-Armor exists, I can't really find fault with a set that doesn't proc it's own damage.
BR is strong, and yeah people are pairing it with the ridiculous damage proc sets, but the problem is that those ridiculous damage proc sets exist. Not BR.

Are these sets really that bad? I mean this might be a step closer to having the sets provide DPS while the class skills and weapon lines can provide unique support/dps utility that can create diverse builds.
They just need to review the dmg/healing/mitigation across the board and make the changes for the balance patch.

It wouldn't surprise me if they use the sets to provide a final build identity instead of locking you behind "Templar" or "sorc". It's probably why these class descriptions are still so abstract versus how's they play; the items and gear determine your role while the class helps you focus it.

Are these sets that bad ?

Last night Allessia Bridge , 1 person wearing who know exactly what , being pounded on by 15 people for almost 8 minutes straight and never below half health . I went in , use dodge roll to break any malubeth beams and start bashing to interrupt on a Majic class cause no one else is , finally took him down after another 4 minutes .

I'm going to go ahead and say yes . These sets can get pretty darn rediculous .

If you were interrupting them was it dark conversion? Im pretty sure temps and dks don't really get interrupted.

Ive survived such encounters because my opponents never bashed me. Kinda really important

Rohamad_Ali

Waffennacht wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

I agree with some others in this thread. As long as Death-By-Armor exists, I can't really find fault with a set that doesn't proc it's own damage.
BR is strong, and yeah people are pairing it with the ridiculous damage proc sets, but the problem is that those ridiculous damage proc sets exist. Not BR.

Are these sets really that bad? I mean this might be a step closer to having the sets provide DPS while the class skills and weapon lines can provide unique support/dps utility that can create diverse builds.
They just need to review the dmg/healing/mitigation across the board and make the changes for the balance patch.

It wouldn't surprise me if they use the sets to provide a final build identity instead of locking you behind "Templar" or "sorc". It's probably why these class descriptions are still so abstract versus how's they play; the items and gear determine your role while the class helps you focus it.

Are these sets that bad ?

Last night Allessia Bridge , 1 person wearing who know exactly what , being pounded on by 15 people for almost 8 minutes straight and never below half health . I went in , use dodge roll to break any malubeth beams and start bashing to interrupt on a Majic class cause no one else is , finally took him down after another 4 minutes .

I'm going to go ahead and say yes . These sets can get pretty darn rediculous .

If you were interrupting them was it dark conversion? Im pretty sure temps and dks don't really get interrupted.

Ive survived such encounters because my opponents never bashed me. Kinda really important

I don't remember what class they were . They were just holding block and crit rushing . It's not really important and I don't blame the player for having fun with the build , I just think who ever decided that was a balanced armor set should go back to middle school math class . If a player can have a raid banging on their head for 10 minutes without flinching , their really is no point in people using anything else .

DHale

Or they could just get black rose. It's not having or using black rose it's that people are not equal. Once people are equal in terms of resistance, sustainability, and damage out put then there is the skill component. Most players in ESO are not that good that is why the really good players stand out.

Rohamad_Ali

DHale wrote: »

Or they could just get black rose. It's not having or using black rose it's that people are not equal. Once people are equal in terms of resistance, sustainability, and damage out put then there is the skill component. Most players in ESO are not that good that is why the really good players stand out.

So everyone wears black rose and problem solved .
Throw out the other armor sets and gg .

#Wrobel

Roechacca

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Or they could just get black rose. It's not having or using black rose it's that people are not equal. Once people are equal in terms of resistance, sustainability, and damage out put then there is the skill component. Most players in ESO are not that good that is why the really good players stand out.

So everyone wears black rose and problem solved .
Throw out the other armor sets and gg .

#Wrobel

L2P

DHale wrote: »

Or they could just get black rose. It's not having or using black rose it's that people are not equal. Once people are equal in terms of resistance, sustainability, and damage out put then there is the skill component. Most players in ESO are not that good that is why the really good players stand out.

Get out of town. My BlackRose DK rips heads off because my armor is flipping fantastic. My Magplar is a beast because Reactive and malubeth with Vicious Death. I don't need skill. I kill even the best players but I'm not going to stand on a soapbox mounted on a pile of horse manure and say skill was involved.

If grinding 25K Telvar stones and equipping armor is a skill the baby I got skill! Accept you wear cancer sets and rule. Nothing wrong with it, the Devs designed the game this way. Some of Us just macros to really shove it your L2P faces.