Magic chars need a break CC ability.

sirrmattus

Totalitarian wrote: »

While Stamina classes do have plentiful access to Break Free, Magicka classes have just as much access to Purge, which cleanses negative effects. Sure, it isn't CC break, but CC break doesn't remove negative effects.

Lmao. The purge that cost 7k magick? The purge that magick users use on vet sanctum ophidia to burn they're magick as fast as possible. Ye. Give me a break

mtwiggz

Paneross wrote: »

Having max stam and recovery is broken in PvP. Watching Stam users break 10+cc's just to run away while roll dodging the entire time is unbelievable. If you're a magic user you get like 2....


Give magic users a break CC option that uses magicka.

This was never an issue when magicka builds could actually deal damage. Dont believe giving magicka users a CC break skill would solve this issue. ZoS needs to either bring stamina damage down (preferred so TTK isn't that of an arena shooter) or bring magicka damage up.

Paneross

mtwiggz wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

Having max stam and recovery is broken in PvP. Watching Stam users break 10+cc's just to run away while roll dodging the entire time is unbelievable. If you're a magic user you get like 2....


Give magic users a break CC option that uses magicka.

This was never an issue when magicka builds could actually deal damage. Dont believe giving magicka users a CC break skill would solve this issue. ZoS needs to either bring stamina damage down (preferred so TTK isn't that of an arena shooter) or bring magicka damage up.

Something, ANYTHING needs to change to take stamina down a peg, and bring equal levels between the two.

Berenhir

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

Having max stam and recovery is broken in PvP. Watching Stam users break 10+cc's just to run away is unbelievable. If you're a magic user you get like 2....


Give magic users a break CC option that uses magicka.

Turn into a vampire and use elusive mist form , combine it with streak to get some distance if you're a sorcerer

Elusive mist as a snare immunity is completely broken.
See this thread

Ihatenightblades

I run 2 shields minimum if im doing light armor with all impen with tri food and good stamina sustain. If u dont have those 3 a good stam character can destroy u with a few CC .

Heavy armor all impen is starting to look descent for magicka builds u can take a lot more damage.

UltimaJoe777

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Absolutely.

STA has much better DPS, better armor, and can roll dodge over and over.

This is the funny part though. @Wrobel AT ONE POINT, nerfed shields for magicka users AND THEN gave a STA based shield to STA users that ALREADY have plenty of defense.

That tells you what Wrobel is concerned about. MAG users have had DPS nerfed AND their defense nerfed. It's complete BS.

Then you have STA DPS WHINING about SORC shields. Are you kidding me?

They also retracted that change to Bone Shield. Also I STILL get PLENTY of defense from my shields. Just because they don't last as long doesn't mean they're less potent. You were never in any real danger if you needed a shield to last THAT long in the first place...

dodgehopper_ESO

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

Having max stam and recovery is broken in PvP. Watching Stam users break 10+cc's just to run away is unbelievable. If you're a magic user you get like 2....


Give magic users a break CC option that uses magicka.

Paneross wrote: »

Having max stam and recovery is broken in PvP. Watching Stam users break 10+cc's just to run away is unbelievable. If you're a magic user you get like 2....


Give magic users a break CC option that uses magicka.

BOLT ESCAPE... oh wait, they nerfed that a long time ago, so it's not a practical escape anymore.

It is also class specific.

Ackwalan

That's the down side when you min/max. Max out on one side and you leave a weakness on the other.

UltimaJoe777

Ackwalan wrote: »

That's the down side when you min/max. Max out on one side and you leave a weakness on the other.

Actually min/maxing is minimizing disadvantages and maximizing advantages. Proper min/maxing should grant enough of what you need to cover what weaknesses you have. It's just a blind DPS race right now is all.

Ackwalan

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

That's the down side when you min/max. Max out on one side and you leave a weakness on the other.

Actually min/maxing is minimizing disadvantages and maximizing advantages. Proper min/maxing should grant enough of what you need to cover what weaknesses you have. It's just a blind DPS race right now is all.

Then magic users that min/max will not have a problem with CC's.

UltimaJoe777

Ackwalan wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

That's the down side when you min/max. Max out on one side and you leave a weakness on the other.

Actually min/maxing is minimizing disadvantages and maximizing advantages. Proper min/maxing should grant enough of what you need to cover what weaknesses you have. It's just a blind DPS race right now is all.

Then magic users that min/max will not have a problem with CC's.

As long as they are willing to make the proper sacrifices, yes.

FearlessOne_2014

Samuel_Bantien wrote: »

Totalitarian wrote: »

While Stamina classes do have plentiful access to Break Free, Magicka classes have just as much access to Purge, which cleanses negative effects. Sure, it isn't CC break, but CC break doesn't remove negative effects.

Purge costs a ton unless you're on a templar running ritual, except that stamina templars are running ritual because it has a low stam.

To the 2 year old arguement...
Break Free and Dodge Roll are on a third resource bar a "Utility Bar".
Set a static recovery on it ~ one that cannot be increased nor decreased. This way we will not have perma dodgers nor perma break frees. The only way to lower costs on it would be to wear Medium Armor for dodge roll and the (several amount of) "Arena" sets for break free cost reduction.
Percentages would have to be figured out because this is a concept developed by players 2 years ago and many things have chamged.

Edit: Fixed my grammar :^)

THIS NEEDS TO HAPPEN AND QUICK! @Wrobel please you are really starting to alienate anyone who don't like playing in this game with swords or bows. Your's and ANet's only saving grace atm is yall are the only two out atm.

Knootewoot

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

nerfed shields for magicka users AND THEN gave a STA based shield to STA users that ALREADY have plenty of defense.

I missed something since I have been away a bit: what STA bases shield?


Also I want for magicka users:

A magicka version of Vigor since I hate equipping my resto staff
A magical bow which deals spelldamage but can use the same attacks as normal bows
A 20% increase of spelldamage which does not first need you to attack something (something like 2-handed's rally)

Stratforge

All these ideas are bad. Hmm let's make breaking free cost magicka yes that's insanely good wow you work for ZoS now.

old_mufasa

What it should be is that Magic attacks and CC should use magic to block/break them.. stamina Attacks and CC should use stamina to block/break them...

This would make more sense.. as a magic user should be able to break down the magic defense of a stamina player faster and a stamina user should be able to break down a magic users defense faster in there respective fields of attack.

Unless use a shield.. in that case it should use what ever the highest stat is for the player.

dodgehopper_ESO

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Samuel_Bantien wrote: »

Totalitarian wrote: »

While Stamina classes do have plentiful access to Break Free, Magicka classes have just as much access to Purge, which cleanses negative effects. Sure, it isn't CC break, but CC break doesn't remove negative effects.

Purge costs a ton unless you're on a templar running ritual, except that stamina templars are running ritual because it has a low stam.

To the 2 year old arguement...
Break Free and Dodge Roll are on a third resource bar a "Utility Bar".
Set a static recovery on it ~ one that cannot be increased nor decreased. This way we will not have perma dodgers nor perma break frees. The only way to lower costs on it would be to wear Medium Armor for dodge roll and the (several amount of) "Arena" sets for break free cost reduction.
Percentages would have to be figured out because this is a concept developed by players 2 years ago and many things have chamged.

Edit: Fixed my grammar :^)

This has been suggested many times with dead silence.

I suggested 'Health' be the derived basis for 'Endurance' a utility bar that would do such yes.

Vangy

o.O

Stam and magicka have their own + and -.

My POV is; (from my experience with my toons you see in my sig)

Mag (+):

Better group play synergy. Better AOE + group heal capability. More utility with things like purge.

Mag (-):

Generally not as mobile as stamina. Damage output in single target is lower.

Stam (+):

Awesome for solo play. Good mobility, sick damage + stealth bursts.

Stam (-):

Bad in group play. Short of bombard caltrops or ST spam monkeys, really not much use unless ur playing some kind of fasallas plague carrier tank. Cannot group heal and has minimal utility.

So depending on what content and with who (or lack thereof) im playing with, I pick an appropriate toon. Wandering IC sewers or open world to gank --> bring NB. Playing with a couple of friends for group PvP --> bring my magPlar or magDK. I do think mag needs some better heavy armour sets and its spell power bumped up slightly, but that is all I think is needed.

acw37162

If you thought PVP was broken before add this into the game and watch what happens.

Yeah, no thanks.

Beardimus

Yeah man, spot on. It's so dull just getting feared, stunned or laying on the floor all the time

Derra

I did not bother to read the whole topic, so:

Has one of those players using dawnbreaker of smiting already pointed out mistform?

Derra

Alaztor91 wrote: »

How about making Break Free cost both resources? like for example if it costs 6k stam now, it would cost 3k magicka and 3k stamina.

If they do that they would probably have to give damage shields the same treatment that dodging received tho.

Are we still complaining about shields when basically every heal in the game is more potent than a shield already?

OGLezard

And I am over here wishing BoL spamming purge wasnt bouncing people from no life to full in .0000000000000001 second, all while any form of debuff is removed everytime you apply it so the cycle never ends.

@Wrobel Balance huh? How bout debuffs that cant be purged that help reduce the amount of life yoyo that we see everyday and night.......

Avenias

Vangy wrote: »

o.O

Stam and magicka have their own + and -.

My POV is; (from my experience with my toons you see in my sig)

Mag (+):

Better group play synergy. Better AOE + group heal capability. More utility with things like purge.

Mag (-):

Generally not as mobile as stamina. Damage output in single target is lower.

Stam (+):

Awesome for solo play. Good mobility, sick damage + stealth bursts.

Stam (-):

Bad in group play. Short of bombard caltrops or ST spam monkeys, really not much use unless ur playing some kind of fasallas plague carrier tank. Cannot group heal and has minimal utility.

So depending on what content and with who (or lack thereof) im playing with, I pick an appropriate toon. Wandering IC sewers or open world to gank --> bring NB. Playing with a couple of friends for group PvP --> bring my magPlar or magDK. I do think mag needs some better heavy armour sets and its spell power bumped up slightly, but that is all I think is needed.

This pretty much sums up the state of game. Stam and mag should not be adjusted. Its a matter of choice. Want more DPS? Go stam. Want more utility go Mag. Mag users get the best utility in game that can synergize with group very well. Stam is for solo players basically.

ragespell

Avenias wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

o.O

Stam and magicka have their own + and -.

My POV is; (from my experience with my toons you see in my sig)

Mag (+):

Better group play synergy. Better AOE + group heal capability. More utility with things like purge.

Mag (-):

Generally not as mobile as stamina. Damage output in single target is lower.

Stam (+):

Awesome for solo play. Good mobility, sick damage + stealth bursts.

Stam (-):

Bad in group play. Short of bombard caltrops or ST spam monkeys, really not much use unless ur playing some kind of fasallas plague carrier tank. Cannot group heal and has minimal utility.

So depending on what content and with who (or lack thereof) im playing with, I pick an appropriate toon. Wandering IC sewers or open world to gank --> bring NB. Playing with a couple of friends for group PvP --> bring my magPlar or magDK. I do think mag needs some better heavy armour sets and its spell power bumped up slightly, but that is all I think is needed.

This pretty much sums up the state of game. Stam and mag should not be adjusted. Its a matter of choice. Want more DPS? Go stam. Want more utility go Mag. Mag users get the best utility in game that can synergize with group very well. Stam is for solo players basically.

So basically, 1sta vs 1mag, 1sta should always win, right?

What I dont understand is this: people say melee should have higher dps, because they stand near the danger. But for the same reason they have also a better armor, and better access to full avoidance skills. I don't think it's fair.
In PVE sta player just eat the damage and hope someone will heal them. They never disconnect from the mob, and that's why thay can pull much higher number.
In PVP, enemy players are not more in danger if they stay near the enemy. My force pulse hit the same from 28m or 1m.

So why there is this fake risk vs reward going on? Sta doesn't have bigger risk, so why should they get a bigger rewards?

Leandor

ragespell wrote: »

Avenias wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

o.O

Stam and magicka have their own + and -.

My POV is; (from my experience with my toons you see in my sig)

Mag (+):

Better group play synergy. Better AOE + group heal capability. More utility with things like purge.

Mag (-):

Generally not as mobile as stamina. Damage output in single target is lower.

Stam (+):

Awesome for solo play. Good mobility, sick damage + stealth bursts.

Stam (-):

Bad in group play. Short of bombard caltrops or ST spam monkeys, really not much use unless ur playing some kind of fasallas plague carrier tank. Cannot group heal and has minimal utility.

So depending on what content and with who (or lack thereof) im playing with, I pick an appropriate toon. Wandering IC sewers or open world to gank --> bring NB. Playing with a couple of friends for group PvP --> bring my magPlar or magDK. I do think mag needs some better heavy armour sets and its spell power bumped up slightly, but that is all I think is needed.

This pretty much sums up the state of game. Stam and mag should not be adjusted. Its a matter of choice. Want more DPS? Go stam. Want more utility go Mag. Mag users get the best utility in game that can synergize with group very well. Stam is for solo players basically.

So basically, 1sta vs 1mag, 1sta should always win, right?

What I dont understand is this: people say melee should have higher dps, because they stand near the danger. But for the same reason they have also a better armor, and better access to full avoidance skills. I don't think it's fair.
In PVE sta player just eat the damage and hope someone will heal them. They never disconnect from the mob, and that's why thay can pull much higher number.
In PVP, enemy players are not more in danger if they stay near the enemy. My force pulse hit the same from 28m or 1m.

So why there is this fake risk vs reward going on? Sta doesn't have bigger risk, so why should they get a bigger rewards?

Stam users do not have better mitigation. They are slightly higher on physical compared to 7LA, but lower against magic damage. Considering that running 5L2H is feasible, whereas 7M is mandatory for all burst builds, magicka wins out on both.

Stamina can dodge more, magicka can purge more. Purge does remove some CC as well as negative effects. Dodge does not affect negative effects but allows evasion of attacks. Balanced.

Evade (20% dodge chance) can be used by magicka users as well, since it's long duration and the cost is mitigated over time. MA does not make evade more efficient. No advantage for stam.

Face it, the only thing necessary for this game to be fun is reduce damage. Reduce stamina damage by a lot and magicka damage by a little. Bring TTL into the minute range, thus making all that CC crap less decisive due to their duration.

Solves most, maybe all of the problems. Stop with the "everyone needs to be able to do everything" shite.

ragespell

Leandor wrote: »

ragespell wrote: »

Avenias wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

o.O

Stam and magicka have their own + and -.

My POV is; (from my experience with my toons you see in my sig)

Mag (+):

Better group play synergy. Better AOE + group heal capability. More utility with things like purge.

Mag (-):

Generally not as mobile as stamina. Damage output in single target is lower.

Stam (+):

Awesome for solo play. Good mobility, sick damage + stealth bursts.

Stam (-):

Bad in group play. Short of bombard caltrops or ST spam monkeys, really not much use unless ur playing some kind of fasallas plague carrier tank. Cannot group heal and has minimal utility.

So depending on what content and with who (or lack thereof) im playing with, I pick an appropriate toon. Wandering IC sewers or open world to gank --> bring NB. Playing with a couple of friends for group PvP --> bring my magPlar or magDK. I do think mag needs some better heavy armour sets and its spell power bumped up slightly, but that is all I think is needed.

This pretty much sums up the state of game. Stam and mag should not be adjusted. Its a matter of choice. Want more DPS? Go stam. Want more utility go Mag. Mag users get the best utility in game that can synergize with group very well. Stam is for solo players basically.

So basically, 1sta vs 1mag, 1sta should always win, right?

What I dont understand is this: people say melee should have higher dps, because they stand near the danger. But for the same reason they have also a better armor, and better access to full avoidance skills. I don't think it's fair.
In PVE sta player just eat the damage and hope someone will heal them. They never disconnect from the mob, and that's why thay can pull much higher number.
In PVP, enemy players are not more in danger if they stay near the enemy. My force pulse hit the same from 28m or 1m.

So why there is this fake risk vs reward going on? Sta doesn't have bigger risk, so why should they get a bigger rewards?

Stam users do not have better mitigation. They are slightly higher on physical compared to 7LA, but lower against magic damage. Considering that running 5L2H is feasible, whereas 7M is mandatory for all burst builds, magicka wins out on both.

Stamina can dodge more, magicka can purge more. Purge does remove some CC as well as negative effects. Dodge does not affect negative effects but allows evasion of attacks. Balanced.

Evade (20% dodge chance) can be used by magicka users as well, since it's long duration and the cost is mitigated over time. MA does not make evade more efficient. No advantage for stam.

Face it, the only thing necessary for this game to be fun is reduce damage. Reduce stamina damage by a lot and magicka damage by a little. Bring TTL into the minute range, thus making all that CC crap less decisive due to their duration.

Solves most, maybe all of the problems. Stop with the "everyone needs to be able to do everything" shite.

fair enough (anyway medium is two times the light armor, if memory serves me right, and you can't cast purge when you are disabled, but you can avoid almost everything rolldodging)

And people play what is easier and stronger: Magicka user (except maybe templar) are disappearing from the game. This speak volumes.

Sorry for my bad english

PS4_ZeColmeia

A magicka based CC break would only help stamina as it wouldn't remove their stamina version and would give them another pool to draw on. The only change that really works is it drawing at your largest pool.

That said, without soft caps, this is the only thing for magicka to want to invest in stamina similarly to those who want a heal that are stamina have to use a PvP skill if they don't want to go 2H.

As a person with only 1 character that has always been primarily magicka based (sometimes I flirt with Hybrid) I honestly don't feel this is an issue.There are plenty of ways of getting more stamina, or reducing roll dodge cost, but it comes as a price. Stamina users don't get strong or worthwhile heals (or easy access), so I think that it's fair as they have less options to get a heal

Paneross

Stratforge wrote: »

All these ideas are bad. Hmm let's make breaking free cost magicka yes that's insanely good wow you work for ZoS now.

Stam user alert

ragespell

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

A magicka based CC break would only help stamina as it wouldn't remove their stamina version and would give them another pool to draw on. The only change that really works is it drawing at your largest pool.

That said, without soft caps, this is the only thing for magicka to want to invest in stamina similarly to those who want a heal that are stamina have to use a PvP skill if they don't want to go 2H.

As a person with only 1 character that has always been primarily magicka based (sometimes I flirt with Hybrid) I honestly don't feel this is an issue.There are plenty of ways of getting more stamina, or reducing roll dodge cost, but it comes as a price. Stamina users don't get strong or worthwhile heals (or easy access), so I think that it's fair as they have less options to get a heal

I'm no expert, but vigor seems to work pretty well

Edziu

mtwiggz wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

Having max stam and recovery is broken in PvP. Watching Stam users break 10+cc's just to run away while roll dodging the entire time is unbelievable. If you're a magic user you get like 2....


Give magic users a break CC option that uses magicka.

This was never an issue when magicka builds could actually deal damage. Dont believe giving magicka users a CC break skill would solve this issue. ZoS needs to either bring stamina damage down (preferred so TTK isn't that of an arena shooter) or bring magicka damage up.

this is not problem with damage
Im playing almost glass canon nonstop, and this is what I see
to much things in only 1 build...in most of stamina builds in pvp...very good sustain, regen etc with still good damage...this is joke, as I on glass cannon I have not much higher hits to these sustain builds to me.

I meet magica builds...they also with damage eating me.

you shouldnt to have high weapon damage with still high regen and armor together, this is problem, players have all in 1.

+ sets with burts onve for few seconds like viper string or from cradle of shadows monster set...with these sets you can go full to defensive regen, just wait to proc in sets, this is also annyoing. whne someone almost no need to to dps you...just survive and wait till set proc and eat you half of the health and then just finishing you