You got to enjoy the Radiant Destruction and Incapacitating Strike Spammers in cyrodil

UltimaJoe777

kasa-obake wrote: »

@UltimaJoe777 again, do you even play this game ? xDD I was actually writing quite a lot of arguments on why beam is broken, but tbh it's not worth. You're not worth it, judging by people commenting on these posts, the community is not worth, and overall this game is not worth it anymore.
If you actually fail to see that a ranged 4 seconds, 50% threshold execute with an insane range, whose damage increases with your magicka pools and can't be dodged, and which is used by a class having increased damage against blocking targets, has a problem, then clearly we'll never understand each other.

Like I said before, I like many others are fully aware of what it can do. However, I like some of the others also know it is not the hand of god despite being labeled the Jesus Beam lol and that it CAN be countered if you know how to. Is it formidable? Sure. Is it unbeatable? Nope.

We get it, you and mmolegends44 are frustrated, but perhaps that just means you need time to cool off so you can think logically.

Caza99

kasa-obake wrote: »

@UltimaJoe777 again, do you even play this game ? xDD I was actually writing quite a lot of arguments on why beam is broken, but tbh it's not worth. You're not worth it, judging by people commenting on these posts, the community is not worth, and overall this game is not worth it anymore.
If you actually fail to see that a ranged 4 seconds, 50% threshold execute with an insane range, whose damage increases with your magicka pools and can't be dodged, and which is used by a class having increased damage against blocking targets, has a problem, then clearly we'll never understand each other.

It has a problem, certainly. But the point he's trying to make, which I agree with, is that there are counters to it just as there are counters to everything. Pressure the beamers so that they have to expend magicka to stay alive therefore making their beam weaker, interrupts, CC, etc. You won't be able to counter it in 100% of situations, but what skill is? If your problem is being Xv1'd and dieing from beam, well gg 1vX is hard and dieing from beam is better than being run over by 3726627 enemies imo :P

covenant_merchant

Those are very pretty words you're saying there, and I wish they were true. Unfortunately they're not. If you want to make a point, please explain to this poor pleb how would you counter ranged radiants in open world.
I mean, really. Nobody complains about magicka nightblades spamming impale, not that there's many left at any rate; surely all this "jesus beam being broken" QQ must have reasonable foundations.

You must be a magicka templar BoLing your way through it.. There's no other explanation xD

Caza99

kasa-obake wrote: »

Those are very pretty words you're saying there, and I wish they were true. Unfortunately they're not. If you want to make a point, please explain to this poor pleb how would you counter ranged radiants in open world.
I mean, really. Nobody complains about magicka nightblades spamming impale, not that there's many left at any rate; surely all this "jesus beam being broken" QQ must have reasonable foundations.

You must be a magicka templar BoLing your way through it.. There's no other explanation xD

Well if you care to take a look at my signature, you'll see I play all classes. I have ways of countering RD on all of them. The fact of the matter is sometimes you'll get caught in a situation where there's nothing you can do but hope the RD spammer is terrible or just accept your fate.

covenant_merchant

Again, you all seem to forget that beam is undodgeable, and the increased damage starts at 50%. When a templar spams beam on you at 100% health, it's adorable in a pug way. Unfortunately, as soon as you're under 50%, beam does way too much additional pressure for you to go melee and bash the templar. Keep in mind that immovability potions do exist, which makes destructive reach, draining shot, frags, and other stuns useless more often than it seems. All those great and wonderful ideas that you have are very good on paper, however it really does not translate in reality.
Perhaps you managed to bash a CP130 guy who was trying to beam you once If so, congratulations but that still doesn't change the fact that this skill is broken af. 50% threshold, really, what was ZOS thinking xDD

Decrease the range of beam, make it dodgeable, reduce the *** threshold, those would all be better solutions than "omg l2p interrupt" nonesense you're saying.

Caza99

kasa-obake wrote: »

Again, you all seem to forget that beam is undodgeable, and the increased damage starts at 50%. When a templar spams beam on you at 100% health, it's adorable in a pug way. Unfortunately, as soon as you're under 50%, beam does way too much additional pressure for you to go melee and bash the templar. Keep in mind that immovability potions do exist, which makes destructive reach, draining shot, frags, and other stuns useless more often than it seems. All those great and wonderful ideas that you have are very good on paper, however it really does not translate in reality.
Perhaps you managed to bash a CP130 guy who was trying to beam you once If so, congratulations but that still doesn't change the fact that this skill is broken af. 50% threshold, really, what was ZOS thinking xDD

Decrease the range of beam, make it dodgeable, reduce the *** threshold, those would all be better solutions than "omg l2p interrupt" nonesense you're saying.

Like I said, the skill does have a problem. But there are counters to everything. If I can find a way to counter it on all my characters, surely you can do it too.

doublestuffed

RD is the best skill ever. Don't ever nerf. Stop crying about not having enough skill to block and interupt.

kadar

kasa-obake wrote: »

Again, you all seem to forget that beam is undodgeable, and the increased damage starts at 50%. When a templar spams beam on you at 100% health, it's adorable in a pug way. Unfortunately, as soon as you're under 50%, beam does way too much additional pressure for you to go melee and bash the templar. Keep in mind that immovability potions do exist, which makes destructive reach, draining shot, frags, and other stuns useless more often than it seems. All those great and wonderful ideas that you have are very good on paper, however it really does not translate in reality.
Perhaps you managed to bash a CP130 guy who was trying to beam you once If so, congratulations but that still doesn't change the fact that this skill is broken af. 50% threshold, really, what was ZOS thinking xDD

Decrease the range of beam, make it dodgeable, reduce the *** threshold, those would all be better solutions than "omg l2p interrupt" nonesense you're saying.

It's silly to say that because a Templar could use a potion before commencing his RD spam, all counters are somehow less viable. In this case, the ideas others have suggested are also great in game. "X" skill is too strong because the player spamming it could use an immovable potion" is not good logic.

RD is also removed with Cloak, making it irrelevant for 25% (argueably higher) of the population of Cyrodiil.
Consider also the number of ranged interrupts and CC that people run around with in Cyrodiil, making it irrelevant for anyone doing Crushing Shock/Flame Reach weaves. Deep Breath. Stonefist. Gap Closer. Venom Arrow.

Do to the number of effective counters, I think RD is in a decent place power-level wise. You can't shrug off it's damage and ignore it by spamming dodge roll, which is actually good for the game, imo.

orinthol

The_Outsider wrote: »

Do to the number of effective counters, I think RD is in a decent place power-level wise. You can't shrug off it's damage and ignore it by spamming dodge roll, which is actually good for the game, imo.

Also, doesn't breaking line of sight cancel the beam?

mmolegends44 wrote: »

@orinthol you could have points in there and still get hit pretty hard I been hearing people been getting hit for 33k raidant destructions

The highest I've been hit by a Radiant is a little over 9K because that was my remaining health and I was heavily debuffed. I've also been hit with three beams at once when I was below 50% health and survived, only to get nailed with a cold fire ballista immediately after. The recap showed that none of the Radiant spells broke 4K damage. Of all the people spamming the so-called Jesus Beam very few actually time it correctly, or inflict significant damage with it.

The Thick Skinned and Elemental Defender passives on the character I'm referencing had 40 points allocated to each of them. He has significant Spell Resistance. Around 30K. He blocks stuff. He has a gap-closer that stuns. I've found that group coherency and a substantial amount of healing is critical in PvP, though. Being able to tank and/or sustain is great. But if you can't do any damage, and all your friends are dead, you might as well be on "Dancing With the Stars".

I imagine there are also people without a single piece of Impenetrable gear, or any points in Resistant, complaining about all sorts of spells/skills melting them in PvP. I imagine some complain about dying when there are 12+ enemies focusing on them at once. Organized PvP groups are usually sizable, and with strong leadership. However, I've seen tanky solo fighters survive and thrive against a dozen foes by using terrain effectively and making smart decisions.

I understand that PvP in ESO is a work in progress. I personally appreciate constructive feedback more than demanding that certain skills stand trial as witches. If you're unlucky or unprepared, a lot of spells/skills can become sinister witches that do you in rather quickly. I've also noticed that many players try to get the best of all worlds from a single character in PvP. If said character fails on a single front, the game is immediately flawed (or worse). I don't agree with this. Just my opinion, though.

Ch4mpTW

PVP is disgusting in this game nowadays. It's literally a cesspool. And by the way, some helpful advice OP. Quit PVP, before it starts making you hate the game overall and ruin your experience. PVP is incredibly unbalanced and isn't going to get better any time soon.

You have people spamming Radiant Destruction from crazy distance away. You have stamina builds that are running amok everywhere, and outclassing magicka builds 10 fold. You have Nightblades making up at LEAST 75% of Cyrodiil's population. It's bad dude. It's really bad. You have people gap closing into keeps, and farming their own alliances for AP while trading emperor with their friends and fellow guild members. It's atrocious. And clearly the devs don't care about PVP, so why should you as the consumer? Just don't even waste your time dude. Trust me. You'll save yourself: The aggregation, the hostility, and the stress. Just walk away from PVP, and never re-enter it.

If you have AP, spend it on motifs or weekly vendor items. But, do not even bother with developing feelings for PVP or the PVP community. The ESO community as a whole is amazing, and a wonderful place. But, don't let the bad apples and toxic players in the PVP ruin your overall perspective of the ESO community.

Oh, and by the way? This is all coming from someone who used to PVP vigorously, and was obsessed with it — until I finally understood the "bigger picture".

Brrrofski

Incap doesn't bother me, it's an Ult and misses.

Radiant... Flat out broken currently.

Pre DB it was bugged. If more than one person was using it, the additional execute damage would only work from one. They've fixed it, and now it's just beams everywhere. Killing very quick.

Yes you can bash it, purge it, cloak it. When you got someone at the back of every group just waiting to pull the trigger it's a lot different. I'm not talking about 1v1, that's a l2p issue. It's the malaubeth healers at the back just spamming it in between heals and hoping for the best.

A range nerf would be the best solution I think. You want to end the fight quick? You should at least have to be in it then, not on the fringe of it.

FullBlownBeast

Range needs to be reduced to 15m, and the additional damage reduced to 250%. This skill as is, is way too strong.

UltimaJoe777

FullBlownBeast wrote: »

Range needs to be reduced to 15m, and the additional damage reduced to 250%. This skill as is, is way too strong.

That would actually make it weaker than Impale, giving people more reason to roll NB.

FullBlownBeast

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

FullBlownBeast wrote: »

Range needs to be reduced to 15m, and the additional damage reduced to 250%. This skill as is, is way too strong.

That would actually make it weaker than Impale, giving people more reason to roll NB.

This is a ranged undodgable execute, and we are talking about Templars. Who cares about NB? Yes Nbs are annoying as well, big whoop.

UltimaJoe777

FullBlownBeast wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

FullBlownBeast wrote: »

Range needs to be reduced to 15m, and the additional damage reduced to 250%. This skill as is, is way too strong.

That would actually make it weaker than Impale, giving people more reason to roll NB.

This is a ranged undodgable execute, and we are talking about Templars. Who cares about NB? Yes Nbs are annoying as well, big whoop.

In case you are unaware Impale is also a ranged execute. 15m, 300% damage. Sure you can dodge it but unlike RD you don't channel it.

FullBlownBeast

Impale starts at 25%, why it's ranged as well? Cause wrobel. Nbs need changes as well. Like I said RD needs those changes, it's too strong.

thankyourat

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

FullBlownBeast wrote: »

Range needs to be reduced to 15m, and the additional damage reduced to 250%. This skill as is, is way too strong.

That would actually make it weaker than Impale, giving people more reason to roll NB.

It would still be better because it's undodgeable. Impale is horrible in PvP. Also no one is going to roll magblade cause of impale lol. There aren't any magblades left, and shouldn't magblade have a better execute than magplar since NB is a dps class

Leon119

Q.Q

Voxicity

mmolegends44 wrote: »

@IcyDeadPeople it really isn't

Yes it is.

Voxicity

Caza99 wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Incapacitating strike is dodgeable and only stuns if the target has higher health than the caster.

Dawnbreaker of smiting is generally a stronger choice as it does more damage, affects multiple targets, cannot be dodged and always stuns.

Erm incap got changed, it now stuns every time o.O Incap applies healing debuffs, increases damage against the target and is up so often it might as well be a 6th skill

But it's dodgeable which makes it so easy to counter

Johngo0036

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Incapacitating strike is dodgeable and only stuns if the target has higher health than the caster.

Dawnbreaker of smiting is generally a stronger choice as it does more damage, affects multiple targets, cannot be dodged and always stuns.

Incapacitating strike always stuns now,

Caza99

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Incapacitating strike is dodgeable and only stuns if the target has higher health than the caster.

Dawnbreaker of smiting is generally a stronger choice as it does more damage, affects multiple targets, cannot be dodged and always stuns.

Erm incap got changed, it now stuns every time o.O Incap applies healing debuffs, increases damage against the target and is up so often it might as well be a 6th skill

But it's dodgeable which makes it so easy to counter

Try to dodge when you're feared. If you don't break it almost immediately or if you get the unbreakable CC bug or if you're out of stamina, incap is devastating.

Drdeath20

kasa-obake wrote: »

@UltimaJoe777 again, do you even play this game ? xDD I was actually writing quite a lot of arguments on why beam is broken, but tbh it's not worth. You're not worth it, judging by people commenting on these posts, the community is not worth, and overall this game is not worth it anymore.
If you actually fail to see that a ranged 4 seconds, 50% threshold execute with an insane range, whose damage increases with your magicka pools and can't be dodged, and which is used by a class having increased damage against blocking targets, has a problem, then clearly we'll never understand each other.

kasa-obake wrote: »

Again, you all seem to forget that beam is undodgeable, and the increased damage starts at 50%. When a templar spams beam on you at 100% health, it's adorable in a pug way. Unfortunately, as soon as you're under 50%, beam does way too much additional pressure for you to go melee and bash the templar. Keep in mind that immovability potions do exist, which makes destructive reach, draining shot, frags, and other stuns useless more often than it seems. All those great and wonderful ideas that you have are very good on paper, however it really does not translate in reality.
Perhaps you managed to bash a CP130 guy who was trying to beam you once If so, congratulations but that still doesn't change the fact that this skill is broken af. 50% threshold, really, what was ZOS thinking xDD

Decrease the range of beam, make it dodgeable, reduce the *** threshold, those would all be better solutions than "omg l2p interrupt" nonesense you're saying.

You don't need to bash the caster to break radiant. When the beam is applied on you just bash the air. If multiple beams are applied on you then you have to bash ,the air, multiple times.

kuro-dono

couple very easy way to counter those jesus beam heroes> templars javelin, blazing shard, destro staff crushing shock, or the first ability of desto staff with flame staff to knockback, reverberating bash from sword+Shield, shield charge aswell from sword and shield skill line does it, toppling charge from templars aswell does it. bolt escape tru the baddie does it. dragonleap. so many easy ways to adapt built into to counter jesus beamer. the beamers are pathetically easy to counter

Voxicity

Caza99 wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Incapacitating strike is dodgeable and only stuns if the target has higher health than the caster.

Dawnbreaker of smiting is generally a stronger choice as it does more damage, affects multiple targets, cannot be dodged and always stuns.

Erm incap got changed, it now stuns every time o.O Incap applies healing debuffs, increases damage against the target and is up so often it might as well be a 6th skill

But it's dodgeable which makes it so easy to counter

Try to dodge when you're feared. If you don't break it almost immediately or if you get the unbreakable CC bug or if you're out of stamina, incap is devastating.

Break it immediately then? Is this an L2P issue or what?

Drdeath20

kuro-dono wrote: »

couple very easy way to counter those jesus beam heroes> templars javelin, blazing shard, destro staff crushing shock, or the first ability of desto staff with flame staff to knockback, reverberating bash from sword+Shield, shield charge aswell from sword and shield skill line does it, toppling charge from templars aswell does it. bolt escape tru the baddie does it. dragonleap. so many easy ways to adapt built into to counter jesus beamer. the beamers are pathetically easy to counter

OR just simple bash the air.

You can literally shrug off radiant destruction. The problem is that people only rely on dodge roll as their defense bcz it dodges just about everything and keeps you moving.

So dodge roll and dragon Knights who use their wings to reflect projectiles are countered with radiant.

Kalante

lol people comparing radiant destruction to an ultimate. That's just a testament of how OP radiant destruction is.

Drdeath20

Kalante wrote: »

lol people comparing radiant destruction to an ultimate. That's just a testament of how OP radiant destruction is.

Are you referring to soul assault?

That thing hits for like guaranteed 15k and can't be bashed off.

SanTii.92

What I enjoy are threads about the same things over and over again.

Drdeath20

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Incapacitating strike is dodgeable and only stuns if the target has higher health than the caster.

Dawnbreaker of smiting is generally a stronger choice as it does more damage, affects multiple targets, cannot be dodged and always stuns.

Erm incap got changed, it now stuns every time o.O Incap applies healing debuffs, increases damage against the target and is up so often it might as well be a 6th skill

But it's dodgeable which makes it so easy to counter

Try to dodge when you're feared. If you don't break it almost immediately or if you get the unbreakable CC bug or if you're out of stamina, incap is devastating.

Break it immediately then? Is this an L2P issue or what?

I also have a very hard time with fear. Not in a fair fight situation but when I'm being ganked. So out of nowhere there's a combo I don't really understand. I think it's something like suprise attack, incapacitating strike, then some mixed in light, heavy attacks then I finally break stun drop my purge down, throw up 1 heal (which puts me to 50% health and suddenly my guy is moving. It takes me a second to realize I'm not moving the joystick in that direction. Then it dawns on me oh wait I'm being feared. So I try to break but it's bugged. In the meantime the nightblade is firing everything at me.

The animation for fear is not obvious enough.

Also the cp ironclad is a terrible counter to fear. At 100 CP's invested into ironclad i remove 25% of fea . So if fear is 4 seconds that means that now it's 3 seconds. Whoopee!

Off topic but I just hate that skill