The Stamina meta and Stamplar imbalance

Strider_Roshin

Van_0S wrote: »

Stamplars are strong because of the changes to thamaurgture passive in champion points. So, Vigor(dot heal) is the best heal for stamplars.

Edit: As anyone tried non-CP campaign ? If so, are stamplars strong there?

I have, and yes Stamplars are still strong there. They don't hit as hard relatively speaking, but it's comparable to everyone else's damage (You could almost go as far to say that it's balanced *gasps*). Their survivability is still insane in comparison to the other classes, but that's due to the major mending + minor protection.

Junkogen

Major mending + major vitality + malubeth = Godmode

Templars and stamDKs own right now with stamina dominating in general. Magplars are the magicka exception. Sucks to be a magblade right now.

caeliusstarbreaker

Right ... So I have little to no experience with stamplar, and as this class used to be little orphan Annie of the whole world with the exception of pre-vma weapon stam Sorcs.... I guess I'll toss some stuff out there.

Sorcs, you can get major breach through elemental drain.
@Ishammael .. Ign shield gives mending, minor brutality, a 4-5k shield negating crit dmg, and return on stamina... So it's plenty comparable in use to purify.
For a long time... Like just about forever stamplar's healing passives.. Didn't work with any non class heals... Now that they do, I want to take a few minutes to just smile and look around the room.
Biting jabs is definitely not the best stam dps ability, and to really get jabs to be the focus of your damage vs as a conjunction attack for middle health bar dps before reverse slice spam with dizzy swing as your entry, you have to sell your soul to the damage gods.
Templar as a whole has been the class that shrugs off negative effects and heals... There is no world where that should change.
There are major defile poisons that you can put on your resto bar to heavy attack with(since resto heavies can't be dodged) so yea... Zero reason you should get major defile,
While we are on that topic, the major defile from flare really shouldn't persist regardless or dodge/reflect.
mag Sorcs have a crap ton of burst... Stamplar can remove your curse.. We have to deal with your mines.
Your shields negate our crit dmg boost.

All that being aired out....
Stamplar is indeed a strong class, it's got some holes that are covered nicely by non class means, I don't know if I would put it at the top stam class... But it is definitely is in contention.
Seriously, nobody cared about Stamplars before they had their healing passives unchained. I used to be able to count on 1 hand how many Stamplars there were.

The problems are CP, snares everywhere in the game, shuffle+vigor+rally(albeit necessary to live as a stam class cause if you are running light or medium armor it ain't for the resistances) and couple other things given game design.

But by all means, nerf stamplar... I liked being a unicorn anyways.

Makkir

Minalan wrote: »

PS: Nerf Malubeth, leave the stamplars alone.

@Minalan FYI the OP stamplars being discussed here I am pretty arent running malubeth. The two on Haderus I have trouble with certainly dont use it. At least I have never seen the purple beams

Minalan

Makkir wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

PS: Nerf Malubeth, leave the stamplars alone.

@Minalan FYI the OP stamplars being discussed here I am pretty arent running malubeth. The two on Haderus I have trouble with certainly dont use it. At least I have never seen the purple beams

If they buffed sorcs just a bit, it wouldn't be an issue. It's not even that much we need, when you're in a 15 minute fight with someone, it's a close match. All we need is a debuff and a few small class tweaks.

Vangy

Sandman929 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

And how do you think stamina users felt the past year and a half when magicka was the go to builds ? Seriously magic users please shut up already.

So now it's your turn to be overly powerful? That's the argument?

Wonder where all this logical reasoning was when every tom *** and harry was running some form of VD + proxy cheese burst build during the previous patches....

twistedmonk

I just refuse to play on the CP campaign. It's dumb.

Makkir

Minalan wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

PS: Nerf Malubeth, leave the stamplars alone.

@Minalan FYI the OP stamplars being discussed here I am pretty arent running malubeth. The two on Haderus I have trouble with certainly dont use it. At least I have never seen the purple beams

If they buffed sorcs just a bit, it wouldn't be an issue. It's not even that much we need, when you're in a 15 minute fight with someone, it's a close match. All we need is a debuff and a few small class tweaks.

Ready...Idea of the Century....Crystal frags now also applies Major Defile to the target. Boom.
#SorcLove
#SorcLiveMatter

Minalan

Vangy wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

And how do you think stamina users felt the past year and a half when magicka was the go to builds ? Seriously magic users please shut up already.

So now it's your turn to be overly powerful? That's the argument?

Wonder where all this logical reasoning was when every tom *** and harry was running some form of VD + proxy cheese burst build during the previous patches....

Those were mostly Magicka nightblades. Not sorcs.

We couldn't pull off the proxy-siphon-VD bombs...

Makkir wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

PS: Nerf Malubeth, leave the stamplars alone.

@Minalan FYI the OP stamplars being discussed here I am pretty arent running malubeth. The two on Haderus I have trouble with certainly dont use it. At least I have never seen the purple beams

If they buffed sorcs just a bit, it wouldn't be an issue. It's not even that much we need, when you're in a 15 minute fight with someone, it's a close match. All we need is a debuff and a few small class tweaks.

Ready...Idea of the Century....Crystal frags now also applies Major Defile to the target. Boom.
#SorcLove
#SorcLiveMatter

This patch, try running 5 Kags/Julianos, 5 Amberplasm, and a master destro staff.

I won't give away why it's so great, but here's a hint: slot a summoning ability on each bar for the daedric protection passive.

lynog85

KelzESO wrote: »

I have been playing since launch and I witnessed the meta shift over time. I have avoided posting my aggravation on these forums over that time, even when such ridiculous changes were made. But now I am just frustrated. I play a few different classes and spend 100% of my time in Cyrodiil. I do small group, 1vX, and duels.

Currently in my magicka sorcerer there is NO way to beat a stamplar who knows WTF he is doing. This is 100% due to the fact Vigor is providing ridiculous amount of healing stacked with major vitality and mending. Please reread that carefully before the gitgud smack pours out of your bias mouthes, stamplars.

I am talking about competent players, not the fotm trashcans I regularly destroy. There are two stamplars in particular that are impossible to beat as a magicka sorc, and several others who are catching onto the builds that make them 1vX Queens. Stam sorcs are not exactly far behind anymore, there are a handful that should be olympic trackstars who put out top end burst as well. Imagine that, another class with more mobility than a magicka sorc.

There is a reason why some 8 in 10 players I come across are stamina. I think Vigor needs to be removed from the alliance war skilline or reworked to scale with the pitiful heals we get from surge OR at least give the Dark Magic tree access to major defile. Why the hell does a staff wielding magicka based class not have a FKin heal like vigor?

This isnt a buff sorc thread. Most of my toons are magicka yes, but i do have a stamblade as well.

I am not exactly a social butterfly and I typically play alone. I do very well in Cyrodiil but cannot dent good stamplars, namely redguard. This has nothing to do with skill but rather broken mechanics. Maybe the passive racial changes will address it.

A magicka sorc complaining about other classes being unkillable? Where have you been the last 12 months mate? This is what you call karma. Every class over time will have its day. Mag Sorc had it for a very long time. Roll another class and stop complaining.

Ishammael

lynog85 wrote: »

KelzESO wrote: »

I have been playing since launch and I witnessed the meta shift over time. I have avoided posting my aggravation on these forums over that time, even when such ridiculous changes were made. But now I am just frustrated. I play a few different classes and spend 100% of my time in Cyrodiil. I do small group, 1vX, and duels.

Currently in my magicka sorcerer there is NO way to beat a stamplar who knows WTF he is doing. This is 100% due to the fact Vigor is providing ridiculous amount of healing stacked with major vitality and mending. Please reread that carefully before the gitgud smack pours out of your bias mouthes, stamplars.

I am talking about competent players, not the fotm trashcans I regularly destroy. There are two stamplars in particular that are impossible to beat as a magicka sorc, and several others who are catching onto the builds that make them 1vX Queens. Stam sorcs are not exactly far behind anymore, there are a handful that should be olympic trackstars who put out top end burst as well. Imagine that, another class with more mobility than a magicka sorc.

There is a reason why some 8 in 10 players I come across are stamina. I think Vigor needs to be removed from the alliance war skilline or reworked to scale with the pitiful heals we get from surge OR at least give the Dark Magic tree access to major defile. Why the hell does a staff wielding magicka based class not have a FKin heal like vigor?

This isnt a buff sorc thread. Most of my toons are magicka yes, but i do have a stamblade as well.

I am not exactly a social butterfly and I typically play alone. I do very well in Cyrodiil but cannot dent good stamplars, namely redguard. This has nothing to do with skill but rather broken mechanics. Maybe the passive racial changes will address it.

A magicka sorc complaining about other classes being unkillable? Where have you been the last 12 months mate? This is what you call karma. Every class over time will have its day. Mag Sorc had it for a very long time. Roll another class and stop complaining.

Terrible attitude.

kaithuzar

It's not just vigor, it's vigor combined with major mending/major vitality & it's rally ticking for 9k+

Valencer

Redguards are insane right now and are getting nerfed next update. Thats going to be a big deal for some of the strong stam builds running around in cyrodiil right now.

Also, magicka sorcs can make themselves pretty damn hard to kill if they want to... camp minefield while keeping both ward and annulment up. Good luck.

Baconlad

Magic temps are...amazing. Unless ur in light armor and not a vamp. Those are requirements to be absolutely awesome. Tanky as dog ***, mobile as hell, and very hard hitting. I love my magplar. Would be Nic to be able to be in light armor and not a vamp tho

lynog85

Ishammael wrote: »

lynog85 wrote: »

KelzESO wrote: »

I have been playing since launch and I witnessed the meta shift over time. I have avoided posting my aggravation on these forums over that time, even when such ridiculous changes were made. But now I am just frustrated. I play a few different classes and spend 100% of my time in Cyrodiil. I do small group, 1vX, and duels.

Currently in my magicka sorcerer there is NO way to beat a stamplar who knows WTF he is doing. This is 100% due to the fact Vigor is providing ridiculous amount of healing stacked with major vitality and mending. Please reread that carefully before the gitgud smack pours out of your bias mouthes, stamplars.

I am talking about competent players, not the fotm trashcans I regularly destroy. There are two stamplars in particular that are impossible to beat as a magicka sorc, and several others who are catching onto the builds that make them 1vX Queens. Stam sorcs are not exactly far behind anymore, there are a handful that should be olympic trackstars who put out top end burst as well. Imagine that, another class with more mobility than a magicka sorc.

There is a reason why some 8 in 10 players I come across are stamina. I think Vigor needs to be removed from the alliance war skilline or reworked to scale with the pitiful heals we get from surge OR at least give the Dark Magic tree access to major defile. Why the hell does a staff wielding magicka based class not have a FKin heal like vigor?

This isnt a buff sorc thread. Most of my toons are magicka yes, but i do have a stamblade as well.

I am not exactly a social butterfly and I typically play alone. I do very well in Cyrodiil but cannot dent good stamplars, namely redguard. This has nothing to do with skill but rather broken mechanics. Maybe the passive racial changes will address it.

A magicka sorc complaining about other classes being unkillable? Where have you been the last 12 months mate? This is what you call karma. Every class over time will have its day. Mag Sorc had it for a very long time. Roll another class and stop complaining.

Terrible attitude.

What's terrible about it exactly? It's the truth.

Thelon

lynog85 wrote: »

A magicka sorc complaining about other classes being unkillable? Where have you been the last 12 months mate? This is what you call karma. Every class over time will have its day. Mag Sorc had it for a very long time. Roll another class and stop complaining.

Nightenhowl

Stamina is top dog no doubt about it, they have access to rng shuffle which gives them an invisible auto reflex. Plus they can roll dodge and block a lot, the balance is definitely skewed in staminas favor.

leepalmer95

Sure wish i could use a shield that make some uncritable and gives me over 15k shield in a panic situation.

Would be great if that said shield also gives me 100% life.

Magicka complaining about heals.

Ward is stupidly strong
Embers = 700 magicka to get a 20k+ heal.
BoL saw a templar with no major mending and was defiled crit a 14k heal.
Mag nb, uses ward oh and also has a annoying amount of Heals via dmg.

DocFrost72

Paraflex wrote: »

Vigor is to strong of a heal by its self. The skill line needs a increased cost or reduction in overall healing. Pair this with any major vitality/mending buff which Templar have access to and you have a full heal with one vigor. Templars and DK's benefit the most because of the class skills they have. Vigor needs to be adjusted but I know all the 1vX people would cry if it ever got nerfed.

I run a build with 10% healing increase (outgoing and incoming) in cp, drop restoring focus, and have 4k plus WD. My vigor in PvE hits for 6.2k.

In Cyro that is 3.1k. With major defile, roughly 2.4 or five, depending. That is not a full heal. However, with rally added, maybe even a potion? Now you're talking biiig heals.

But then, if I said BoL was iverpreforming when it had two 30% increase buffs and a minor added, plus another heal and a potion, that would be just silly.

Drdeath20

OK soo after reading this thread I

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I personally think major mending should be as accessible as major berserk. Which is something only one class can access at all by themself with the prerequisite of killing something AND it´s duration is very limited.

Also magica builds need a reliable way to access major defile which in theory is major vitalitiys counter but can not be found for magica builds as a spamable skill.

You might get me point: I don´t think any class should be able to selfbuff major mending or vitality on them because the equivalent dmg buffs are either not selfbuffable or nonexistant for mag builds.

The problem is that because of the limited action bar in ESO, skills do too many things at once. For example, purify gives you 5xpurge, major mending, a HoT, and a snare. That's crazy.

I think access to major mending like on igneous shield is OK because it doesn't last that long and the skill doesn't do much else.

Stamplars are still irrelevant in group fights.

Lord-Otto

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sure wish i could use a shield that make some uncritable and gives me over 15k shield in a panic situation.

Would be great if that said shield also gives me 100% life.

Magicka complaining about heals.

Ward is stupidly strong
Embers = 700 magicka to get a 20k+ heal.
BoL saw a templar with no major mending and was defiled crit a 14k heal.
Mag nb, uses ward oh and also has a annoying amount of Heals via dmg.

Sure wish I could dodgeroll to negate 95% of a sorc's damage or Shuffle to have a constant 20% damage mitigation that is known to overperform quite frequently. Sure wish I had armor and resistances on my shield or even body. Sure wish I could break free at will.

Would be great if my Healing Ward would actually always fly to me, not a random ally, to give me life.

Stamina complaining about survival, lol.

Stamina damage and mitigation is stupidly strong.
Stam sorc = 6k weapon damage. Mag sorc 3.5k?
Dodgeroll = an INFINITE amount of damage mitigation for two seconds.
Shuffle = an INFINITE amount of damage mitigation when it procs.
Every stamina build has Vigor, the best heal, which is not even bound to a weapon. Magicians have a resto staff, lol.
Did I mention Shield Breaker? there is still no Dodge/Heal Breaker set.

FloppyTouch

Mdk having evade chance while standing in an ability ZoS to Over power NERF, all Stam build having evade where ever they go and free to cast if they break free ZoS balance no issue -.-

Lava_Croft

Junkogen wrote: »

Major mending + major vitality + malubeth = Godmode

Templars and stamDKs own right now with stamina dominating in general. Magplars are the magicka exception. Sucks to be a magblade right now.

ProxDet nerf did a good job of showing the weakness of MagBlades in PvP.

Junkogen

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Major mending + major vitality + malubeth = Godmode

Templars and stamDKs own right now with stamina dominating in general. Magplars are the magicka exception. Sucks to be a magblade right now.

ProxDet nerf did a good job of showing the weakness of MagBlades in PvP.

Spot on. Magblades were largely dependent on proxy det. They should have buffed something to compensate for the lack of burst. Magblades are now just easy AP for the stamina overlords.

Let's also not forget the nerfing/breaking of cloak. That was also a huge hit. Stamblades barely noticed, but cloak was a big part of magblade survival. What else do they have? Double take? Not near as good as shuffle. Sure shadowy disguise has a guaranteed crit, but good luck landing it on shuffle users. Also, having to cast cloak to rely on a guaranteed crit wrecks your magicka pool. Cloaking with a missed concealed weapon is pretty costly, also not very efficient. It takes too much time, not even considering lag in Cyrodiil. This is definitely not a golden age for magblades.

Makkir

Minalan wrote: »

This patch, try running 5 Kags/Julianos, 5 Amberplasm, and a master destro staff.

I won't give away why it's so great, but here's a hint: slot a summoning ability on each bar for the daedric protection passive.

I already run Atronach for the 20% stam recovery. I think every PvP sorc is planning to run Amberplasm, it's no secret. You only need enough stamina to replenish for another breakfree after the current immunity wears off and usually a pot will take care of that. Running Amberplasm may allow me to run Magicka immovable instead of Stamina, which would be terrific since I would be losing sustain by dropping Sedcuers.


Obviously getting the gear first is going to be a barrier.

Makkir

lynog85 wrote: »

What's terrible about it exactly? It's the truth.

For the same reasons you tell your kids not to hit the other kid who hit you first.

Ishammael

Makkir wrote: »

lynog85 wrote: »

What's terrible about it exactly? It's the truth.

For the same reasons you tell your kids not to hit the other kid who hit you first.

That's... A bad example. Because your kids should stand up for themselves.

Vindictiveness is another thing entirely, which the afore mentioned poster is advocating. Rather than promote fair play, his suggestion was that is OK to be unbalanced now because it was unbalanced in the past.

Makkir

Ishammael wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

lynog85 wrote: »

What's terrible about it exactly? It's the truth.

For the same reasons you tell your kids not to hit the other kid who hit you first.

That's... A bad example. Because your kids should stand up for themselves.

Vindictiveness is another thing entirely, which the afore mentioned poster is advocating. Rather than promote fair play, his suggestion was that is OK to be unbalanced now because it was unbalanced in the past.

yeah but you got my point
your wording was better

Mac10murda

I ran into a stamplar with my mag sorc between purge my curse and actively dodge rolling I felt useless lol

X_NOVIA_X

I've been a stamplar for probably about 9 months now. Run with about 28k health, 33k stamina and roughly 4650 weapon damage. There are bad stamplars due to poor gear and slotted skills, and there are ones who have all gear they want min/maxed like I do, and I almost exclusively run Pvp In small to medium groups. I regularly finish in the top 10 of campaigns without too much effort other than just playing and having fun. It all comes down to having a ton of practice, knowing your build inside and out, and having things down to muscle memory. Never the less, some builds / classes will always be better but it's almost like a combat triangle, just imagine 4 corners not 3. Each class is strong against certain ones and each class is weak against others.