The Stamina meta and Stamplar imbalance

KelzESO

I have been playing since launch and I witnessed the meta shift over time. I have avoided posting my aggravation on these forums over that time, even when such ridiculous changes were made. But now I am just frustrated. I play a few different classes and spend 100% of my time in Cyrodiil. I do small group, 1vX, and duels.

Currently in my magicka sorcerer there is NO way to beat a stamplar who knows WTF he is doing. This is 100% due to the fact Vigor is providing ridiculous amount of healing stacked with major vitality and mending. Please reread that carefully before the gitgud smack pours out of your bias mouthes, stamplars.

I am talking about competent players, not the fotm trashcans I regularly destroy. There are two stamplars in particular that are impossible to beat as a magicka sorc, and several others who are catching onto the builds that make them 1vX Queens. Stam sorcs are not exactly far behind anymore, there are a handful that should be olympic trackstars who put out top end burst as well. Imagine that, another class with more mobility than a magicka sorc.

There is a reason why some 8 in 10 players I come across are stamina. I think Vigor needs to be removed from the alliance war skilline or reworked to scale with the pitiful heals we get from surge OR at least give the Dark Magic tree access to major defile. Why the hell does a staff wielding magicka based class not have a FKin heal like vigor?

This isnt a buff sorc thread. Most of my toons are magicka yes, but i do have a stamblade as well.

I am not exactly a social butterfly and I typically play alone. I do very well in Cyrodiil but cannot dent good stamplars, namely redguard. This has nothing to do with skill but rather broken mechanics. Maybe the passive racial changes will address it.

Brrrofski

Welcome to how everyone felt about magica sorcs for the last few months.

Stamblade is the top dog for stamina anyway.

Maybe said players are just very good and just happen to run stamplar. They'd probably be as good if not better on any other stam class in all fairness. Stam are pretty close to each other at the moment.

KelzESO

Previous to DB if you wanted to beat a magicka sorc, you just dont follow him around the rocks. In most cases you had to sacrifice insane spell dmg for insane sustain. Thats why 1vX was great on a sorc because most pugcans suffered from tunnel vision and chased ya around terrain.

Theres a reason why there are only maybe 3 sorcs left who actually post videos and regularly play small scale.

I wouldnt get aggravated and say "good thats what you get," or "finally your turn to suffer." I mean, do you really want classes in this game to suffer at all?

thankyourat

a lot of people complain about stam nightblades but I think stamplar and stam dk are both better at the moment. If they are built right they both just feel unkillable. I can pretty much beat every other class on my magblade but those two. And if they are a redguard it's basically gg before the fight even starts. I don't have these problems going against any other class

Paraflex

Vigor is to strong of a heal by its self. The skill line needs a increased cost or reduction in overall healing. Pair this with any major vitality/mending buff which Templar have access to and you have a full heal with one vigor. Templars and DK's benefit the most because of the class skills they have. Vigor needs to be adjusted but I know all the 1vX people would cry if it ever got nerfed.

Sandman929

Paraflex wrote: »

Vigor is to strong of a heal by its self. The skill line needs a increased cost or reduction in overall healing. Pair this with any major vitality/mending buff which Templar have access to and you have a full heal with one vigor. Templars and DK's benefit the most because of the class skills they have. Vigor needs to be adjusted but I know all the 1vX people would cry if it ever got nerfed.

Can you imagine if the Bone Shield going to scaling with max Stamina happened? Combined with Vigor, stam builds would be game ruining as opposed to merely annoying.

dodgehopper_ESO

The attack on Stamina Templar is a mistake. I'd rather see them making Sorcerer more interesting (as I've posted in the past). Templar is a more resilient class inherently than Sorcerer. Sorcerer conversely is more aggressive and fast moving. Stamina Redguard Sorcerers are pretty fantastic as well as Templars, DK's, and NB's. That is really beside the point. Your concern has more to do with either how pets function, how surge functions, or how dark exchange functions if I had to hit the nail on the head.

As an aside I personally think Dodge roll, Sneaking, Blocking, etc should draw from an independent 'gold' bar derived upon health pool. This would be of huge benefit to magic builds, and help deal with Stamina eating up all their attacking pool. Likewise they could more fairly equalize the costs between magic/stamina in this scenario. EDIT: More importantly it would give a lot greater value to the health pool.

Strider_Roshin

The major mending passive is what's making Templars OP. No class should have major mending passively.

dodgehopper_ESO

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

The major mending passive is what's making Templars OP. No class should have major mending passively.

Its not passive, please put down the crack pipe (I'm saying this jokingly don't go into a tailspin please). You have to expend something to get something for this. Admittedly, Templars are the most efficient at gaining Major mending (as they should be). In real combat you have to OFTEN leave your HOUSE/Circle. There is a cost associated with this, and a cost in time and resources recasting. This cost is more noticeable on a stamplar I might add. If you want other classes to get major mending, offer them decent alternatives. DK has good ones now.

Sandman929

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

The major mending passive is what's making Templars OP. No class should have major mending passively.

Or ALL classes should have major mending passively ONLY as a Restoration staff passive. The resto staff is being outclassed by class and world line skills.

Forestd16b14_ESO

And how do you think stamina users felt the past year and a half when magicka was the go to builds ? Seriously magic users please shut up already.

Solariken

I main a Stamplar, and I can definitely understand where you are coming from. However, Stamplars are not performing better than other stamina classes in most situations. I know they may be extra troublesome for you in particular because you can't burst them with curse as long as they have the magicka to cleanse it.

With that said, I fully support a mild reduction to the scaling coefficient of Vigor AND Rally. I'm not kidding when I tell you I can -under some circumstances- achieve better HPS and longer healing sustain on a stamina build than many magicka builds could dream of. Stamina heals need to be toned down across the board. Major Mending itself may seem OP to you on paper but it only barely makes up for the lack of mobility/escape/mitigation of Templars and DKs.

I also think animation cancelling needs to be limited somehow - I think a .4 second global ability activation cooldown is a good place to start while leaving block/swap/roll cancelling alone. The insane animation cancelling burst combos like Crit Rush > DBoS > Executioner are just too powerful and can be performed too fast for any reaction to take place.

But, ZOS is inept and I don't expect anything from them except more problems to be created and more lame PvE questing DLCs. CU beta can't come soon enough.

Sandman929

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

And how do you think stamina users felt the past year and a half when magicka was the go to builds ? Seriously magic users please shut up already.

So now it's your turn to be overly powerful? That's the argument?

Sandman929

Solariken wrote: »

I main a Stamplar, and I can definitely understand where you are coming from. However, Stamplars are not performing better than other stamina classes in most situations. I know they may be extra troublesome for you in particular because you can't burst them with curse as long as they have the magicka to cleanse it.

With that said, I fully support a mild reduction to the scaling coefficient of Vigor AND Rally. I'm not kidding when I tell you I can -under some circumstances- achieve better HPS and longer healing sustain on a stamina build than many magicka builds could dream of. Stamina heals need to be toned down across the board. Major Mending itself may seem OP to you on paper but it only barely makes up for the lack of mobility/escape/mitigation of Templars and DKs.

I also think animation cancelling needs to be limited somehow - I think a .4 second global ability activation cooldown is a good place to start while leaving block/swap/roll cancelling alone. The insane animation cancelling burst combos like Crit Rush > DBoS > Executioner are just too powerful and can be performed too fast for any reaction to take place.

But, ZOS is inept and I don't expect anything from them except more problems to be created and more lame PvE questing DLCs. CU beta can't come soon enough.

I don't think Stamplars are an OP class, but they benefit better than other classes from stam heals that are performing a little too well.

Methariorn

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

And how do you think stamina users felt the past year and a half when magicka was the go to builds ? Seriously magic users please shut up already.

The point is: do we like having a something belanced game with both magicka and stamina viable or we like have just one option to be competitive and start to see a ton of stamina dk and templar in pvp? It's not very smart pointing that magicka was the metagame early: imho a mmorpg is fun if you have many options to build giving diversity. If a mategame/build become to op ppl will just mass reroll (take like 3-4 days...) and will get a PvP with just ppl spamming shuffle, vigor, roll dodge, crit rush, etc. I don't pretend magicka and stamina to be perfect belanced: I know it's impossible but having one or the other complete op will be the dead of pvp (with all the other problems as well....bug abusing, lag, etc.)

dodgehopper_ESO

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

And how do you think stamina users felt the past year and a half when magicka was the go to builds ? Seriously magic users please shut up already.

I have to say I agree wholeheartedly. The whole magic complaint thing comes off pretty shallow when you look at the history of the game, and the way people crapped on you verbally if you were a stamina build. I'm sorry, but they should all have a place, stop freaking out. There are ways to make things balanced and there are still things that magic is very good at doing.

Ishammael

There should never have been a Stamina vs. magicka divide in this game. It doesn't make any sense - the 1.6 patch which tried to do this was a huge mistake. Balance will never be achieved when there are only three resource pools.

Regardless, we have what we have. To the OP, the strength of samplar is three fold:

1. Biting jabs is the best Stamina attack in the whole game.
2. Purify gives you major mending, a HoT, and purge.
3. Shuffle+vigor+rally is slightly too strong, mainly because weapon damage can be stacked so high.

Bonus: stam gear sets dramatically outclass magicka gear sets. Magicka classes must slot a staff to gain access to added burst from heavy or light attack weaving.

loki547

KelzESO wrote: »

I have been playing since launch and I witnessed the meta shift over time. I have avoided posting my aggravation on these forums over that time, even when such ridiculous changes were made. But now I am just frustrated. I play a few different classes and spend 100% of my time in Cyrodiil. I do small group, 1vX, and duels.

Currently in my magicka sorcerer there is NO way to beat a stamplar who knows WTF he is doing. This is 100% due to the fact Vigor is providing ridiculous amount of healing stacked with major vitality and mending. Please reread that carefully before the gitgud smack pours out of your bias mouthes, stamplars.

I am talking about competent players, not the fotm trashcans I regularly destroy. There are two stamplars in particular that are impossible to beat as a magicka sorc, and several others who are catching onto the builds that make them 1vX Queens. Stam sorcs are not exactly far behind anymore, there are a handful that should be olympic trackstars who put out top end burst as well. Imagine that, another class with more mobility than a magicka sorc.

There is a reason why some 8 in 10 players I come across are stamina. I think Vigor needs to be removed from the alliance war skilline or reworked to scale with the pitiful heals we get from surge OR at least give the Dark Magic tree access to major defile. Why the hell does a staff wielding magicka based class not have a FKin heal like vigor?

This isnt a buff sorc thread. Most of my toons are magicka yes, but i do have a stamblade as well.

I am not exactly a social butterfly and I typically play alone. I do very well in Cyrodiil but cannot dent good stamplars, namely redguard. This has nothing to do with skill but rather broken mechanics. Maybe the passive racial changes will address it.

Hi bby I'll be ur 1vX Queen

timidobserver

I don't think there is a need to single out stamina templar. It's stamina in general. Pretty much the only thing that wrecks them is radiant destruction, thus the huge mission to get it nerfed.

KelzESO

Sandman929 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

And how do you think stamina users felt the past year and a half when magicka was the go to builds ? Seriously magic users please shut up already.

So now it's your turn to be overly powerful? That's the argument?

I mention this in my OP if you go back and read. I understand how magicka used to be but we all play and love this game, we should be on the same team not magicka versus stamina cliques.

I also understand this game is supposed to be balanced around group play and not solo. But I find it stupid I dont have options unless I drop my current sets to run something like Fasallas just to access a debuff to offer a counter to the stupidness that is melee heals (stamina).

I really dont care if sorc survivability is nerfed into the ground...but on that note our magicka dress wearing class should have the mobility that stam sorcs have now (Orc Storcs OMG), and the higher burst potential of the classes...just as our stamina melee friends should lack heals and make up for it with mitigation and dmg.

It is so dumb in all MMO history to ever give a class great healing/survivability and great dps. Makes no sense. It's like when Jedi were introduced to star wars galaxies everyone started to grind one since they were godmode.

We should see a healthy mix of magicka and stamina in Cyrodiil....not a heavy lean on the latter...theres a reason for it. In fact, I only see a small number of regular magicka sorcs now between both campaigns and who have build\pvp videos. Again, must be a reason for it. @Lord_Hev @Fasoo @Makkir @Cinnamon_Spider

KelzESO

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

And how do you think stamina users felt the past year and a half when magicka was the go to builds ? Seriously magic users please shut up.

There are ways to make things balanced and there are still things that magic is very good at doing.

yeah writs. In all seriouness you have a real *** attitude to be on the us versus them bandwagon.

twistedmonk

they should un-nerf the magic sorc to be a counter to the current stamina meta.

they nerfed shields, surge and bolt escape. all 3 of the combined nerfs made it difficult to play now.

vigor + rally + medium armor + dodge roll + shuffle + gap closers + all the CC/snares = stamina meta the clear choice. 1 dodge roll can negate 10 people hitting you. the shield you have to constantly recast every 6 seconds (which means you are doing 0 dps every 6 seconds) and if you get 2 or more hitting you, you are dead.

dodgehopper_ESO

Ishammael wrote: »

There should never have been a Stamina vs. magicka divide in this game. It doesn't make any sense - the 1.6 patch which tried to do this was a huge mistake. Balance will never be achieved when there are only three resource pools.

Regardless, we have what we have. To the OP, the strength of samplar is three fold:

1. Biting jabs is the best Stamina attack in the whole game.
2. Purify gives you major mending, a HoT, and purge.
3. Shuffle+vigor+rally is slightly too strong, mainly because weapon damage can be stacked so high.

Bonus: stam gear sets dramatically outclass magicka gear sets. Magicka classes must slot a staff to gain access to added burst from heavy or light attack weaving.

I like Biting Jabs okay, but its a hefty dose of hyperbole to say that it is the best stamina attack in the whole game. If I was eating something I think I would have choked from instant laughter. Biting Jabs is good in the right situations but to call it the best? Really? Please also bear in mind that a DK can equally gain benefit from Shuffle/Vigor/Rally and he also has access to things like GDB, Igneous weapons, dragon leap and of course obsidian shield. Some of those abilities power his ultimate and stamina which in turn fuels survivability. The DK also doesn't get Biting Jabs and other things. Its a bit of this and a bit of that. Nightblades also have access to other amazing abilities, so to somehow state the Templar is better than a Nightblade would be pretty ridiculous. The only people who MIGHT have room to complain is a Sorcerer, and I've got to say Sorcerer has a lot going for it right now from a stamina point of view. I do agree that Surge/Exchange could be looked over a bit more but one should not underestimate the value of Sorc amped up speed. Sorcerers = Sonic the Hedgehog in this game, just look at any @Fengrush video to see what I'm talking about. Rather than crap on Templars, maybe you ought to look at where others could use a fix or adjustment. Templar is really not a class that needs to be nerfed and completely overhauled again - we had over 2 years of that and most of us are sick of it. In fact most of us would like to see some of the crappy skills revitalized still. What I love about playing Nightblade is that I actually feel torn between choices. I feel a lot more on the rails with my Sorcerers, and Templar and DK aren't much better.

dodgehopper_ESO

KelzESO wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

And how do you think stamina users felt the past year and a half when magicka was the go to builds ? Seriously magic users please shut up.

There are ways to make things balanced and there are still things that magic is very good at doing.

yeah writs. In all seriouness you have a real shiity atitude to be on the us versus them bandwagon.

I'm not on an us vs. them bandwagon, I'm recommending you guys stop attacking Templar which has had enough of that. I've got ideas about making things better for magicka, and it doesn't involve specifically attacking one class because you happen to be envious Templars have major mending. I entirely get the vibe where @Forestd16b14_ESO is coming from though, and a lot of others who have been around a while feel the same way. I don't want the game to keep swinging back and forth between magic and stamina, I want them to get the game balanced. Without Major Mending, Templar would just be a really awful Nightblade with glowy abilities that call attention to himself and maybe blazing shield instead of fear. Woopty-doo. There's a reason I really wish this game had no classes at all, just abilities and skill lines.

Makkir

So I will chime in,

There are half a dozen stamina sorcs and templars with whom I struggle regularly to the point I just avoid them now if I see them trying to 1vX outside a keep or whatever. I mean it's easy to pop the stamplar rerolls, but the good players are next to impossible to kill as a magicka sorc. Chalk it up to garbage stamina heals design.

I got Fas's stamplar down to like 1 or 2% last week at the nickel gate before he killed me, but it was a long fight costing me a bunch of potions. I had to use a drain poison and I think if I had mages wrath slotted I probably could have popped him. Outside that one instance, he and a few others are just a pain that I now just avoid.

I also find it upsetting to watch several stam sorcs running faster than lightning away from me and able to also dish out extremely high dmg numbers. I feel as a Magicka Sorc I no longer have any defining purpose in Cyrodiil. And the class, as I have mentioned a million times since DB went live, is just not fun to play anymore.

@dodgeho@dodgehopper_ESO I think it's a sad state that people have a dividing attitude towards others who play this game. We get it. You are butthurt over magicka being OP at one in time. You should care about the general health and balance of the game rather than your moment to seek revenge.

I like the OP idea of adding a Major Defile debuff to the Dark Magic tree.

Sandman929

Ishammael wrote: »

There should never have been a Stamina vs. magicka divide in this game. It doesn't make any sense - the 1.6 patch which tried to do this was a huge mistake. Balance will never be achieved when there are only three resource pools.

Regardless, we have what we have. To the OP, the strength of samplar is three fold:

1. Biting jabs is the best Stamina attack in the whole game.
2. Purify gives you major mending, a HoT, and purge.
3. Shuffle+vigor+rally is slightly too strong, mainly because weapon damage can be stacked so high.

Bonus: stam gear sets dramatically outclass magicka gear sets. Magicka classes must slot a staff to gain access to added burst from heavy or light attack weaving.

There are only 2 pools, 95% of the population doesn't care about Health unless they're under 20K. Health has no utility, and that's the real balance problem. Mitigation scales with the same attribute as damage, for either stamina or magicka builds.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Sandman929 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

And how do you think stamina users felt the past year and a half when magicka was the go to builds ? Seriously magic users please shut up already.

So now it's your turn to be overly powerful? That's the argument?

Sandman929 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

And how do you think stamina users felt the past year and a half when magicka was the go to builds ? Seriously magic users please shut up already.

So now it's your turn to be overly powerful? That's the argument?

No the argumentnis stamina and magicka are now fianlly balancing out I have seen plenty of magicka users still hitting extreamly hard and still be very hard to kill. Thats the argument that magicka is still top tier but those "bad magicka users" want easy mode again.

Was it fair that magicka users were unkillable ? No and now that you are your whining non-stop at ZoS to make you unkillable again.

Basicly in the simplest version all you "bad magicka players" Learn to play the style or switch to stamina since that's "easy mode" acording to the whining.

dodgehopper_ESO

Makkir wrote: »

So I will chime in,

There are half a dozen stamina sorcs and templars with whom I struggle regularly to the point I just avoid them now if I see them trying to 1vX outside a keep or whatever. I mean it's easy to pop the stamplar rerolls, but the good players are next to impossible to kill as a magicka sorc. Chalk it up to garbage stamina heals design.

I got Fas's stamplar down to like 1 or 2% last week at the nickel gate before he killed me, but it was a long fight costing me a bunch of potions. I had to use a drain poison and I think if I had mages wrath slotted I probably could have popped him. Outside that one instance, he and a few others are just a pain that I now just avoid.

I also find it upsetting to watch several stam sorcs running faster than lightning away from me and able to also dish out extremely high dmg numbers. I feel as a Magicka Sorc I no longer have any defining purpose in Cyrodiil. And the class, as I have mentioned a million times since DB went live, is just not fun to play anymore.

@dodgeho@dodgehopper_ESO I think it's a sad state that people have a dividing attitude towards others who play this game. We get it. You are butthurt over magicka being OP at one in time. You should care about the general health and balance of the game rather than your moment to seek revenge.

I like the OP idea of adding a Major Defile debuff to the Dark Magic tree.

@Makkir actually I don't think you do get it. I'm annoyed by the attitude of the 'mage class' who are so incensed at feeling a moment of weakness in the game and 'those bad stamina players' just don't feel their pain. The reverse is actually true, I'm well aware of what it is like to have you build completely upended on you, multiple times, PARTICULARLY as a Tanky Stamplar. If anyone can feel your pain it is THAT build. What I have very little patience for these days is the desire to dump on the class, after all the *** we've put up with, and broken class skills we've had to deal with. If I come off as a little grouchy you're damn right I am. Templar is a sluggish class that has particular buffs and benefits to make up for that fact. Take away those buffs, and you need to take away the nerfs inherent to the class. Its that simple. The reality is though I've been through this rodeo and it doesn't work like that. We get nerfed, and then it takes a year for them to make adjustments that are horrible or come out from left field. Rather than attack the class very specifically as was done (and I add some of the arguments were ignorant since DK's can also get this buff) I recommended they look for other ways to help classes that are in need of it. The only thing that kept me playing Templar through all of that time is that I actually like the theme of the class. A lot of people give @Fengrush *** for being an OP Sorc Stamina character. I really think that is unfair as well because he went through a long era where that build was absolutely terrible except for the fact he is a good player. He made lemonade out of lemons. Its not fair to complain about him later on if things are working well about that build. I'm sick and tired of these kinds of personal attacks or class attacks.

On the matter of defile being added to Dark Magic, I actually like that. It would go well with the Encase skill or mines and tends to lend itself well to the theme of Sorcs. If the concern is about Sorcs though, I think the greater issue is the overarching design of the class and its hefty reliance on toggles. Pets should be a cast with duration, just like every other elder scrolls game in existence up until now. This would allow Sorcerers to throw pets on one bar, and not need it blocking everything up on the other. I can live with Bound Armor needing to be on both bars for its passive Stam or Magic bonus, as Templars have a similar issue with Repentance. The big problem with Sorcerer is that it has too many abilities that operate this way. Your concern about Boundless Lightning feeling sluggish is well understood. I experienced this issue the other day on my own Sorc, and I definitely think it ought to be looked at.

I'd like to add the Sorc I've played the most, Arondonimo, is a magicka sorc. I do have something stamina in the works through blackwater blade, but that's a long way off til he's veteran. I'm not feeling merciless toward the Sorcerer-mage cause as this is one of my favorite characters. I just don't think attacking 'Stamina' or 'Templars' is the right way to go about it, and is a little infuriating given this game's history. I can remember a time when my Sorc solo'd dungeons and was extremely annoying in pvp. There was a time when they could be tanky -and- shell out huge amounts of DPS. I don't think we need to ever go back to that. I think the dimensions of Tanking and DPS needs to possibly be reconsidered, and I've discussed that issue elsewhere. It effects all classes, not just Templars or Sorcerers. Health needs to be less meaningless. Its use in niche builds needs to really end. Many people have offered alternatives to make health more meaningful as a stat, and I don't think it needs restating here. I really didn't like the way health performed on Sorcerer tanks historically, to be very specific.

Please read more of my comments to get a better sense of where I am coming from. I've offered suggestions which would hopefully improve magic build viability. One of those suggestions is that movements like Block, Break Free, Dodge Roll, Sneak, etc should fall under what is historically 'Endurance' in previous TES games aka 'Health'. My recommendation is to give us an Endurance bar derived from health, which would make health a much more meaningful stat and also make it harder for people to just go all in on magic or stamina without becoming more of a glass cannon. These kinds of global adjustments are warranted more than the gutting of a class.

Sandman929

I've got both, and stamina is easier IMO. Vigor isn't so bad in isolation, but Vigor while someone else uses Vigor within range is way to strong for stamina heals. Pile Rally on top of that and stam builds are just healing too well. I'm fine with the dodges and Shuffle.

Paraflex

Solariken wrote: »

I main a Stamplar, and I can definitely understand where you are coming from. However, Stamplars are not performing better than other stamina classes in most situations. I know they may be extra troublesome for you in particular because you can't burst them with curse as long as they have the magicka to cleanse it.

With that said, I fully support a mild reduction to the scaling coefficient of Vigor AND Rally. I'm not kidding when I tell you I can -under some circumstances- achieve better HPS and longer healing sustain on a stamina build than many magicka builds could dream of. Stamina heals need to be toned down across the board. Major Mending itself may seem OP to you on paper but it only barely makes up for the lack of mobility/escape/mitigation of Templars and DKs.

I also think animation cancelling needs to be limited somehow - I think a .4 second global ability activation cooldown is a good place to start while leaving block/swap/roll cancelling alone. The insane animation cancelling burst combos like Crit Rush > DBoS > Executioner are just too powerful and can be performed too fast for any reaction to take place.

But, ZOS is inept and I don't expect anything from them except more problems to be created and more lame PvE questing DLCs. CU beta can't come soon enough.

Good to see people who play stamplars agree with this. I am a healer and have always thought this.

Bakven

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

And how do you think stamina users felt the past year and a half when magicka was the go to builds ? Seriously magic users please shut up already.

So now it's your turn to be overly powerful? That's the argument?

Sandman929 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

And how do you think stamina users felt the past year and a half when magicka was the go to builds ? Seriously magic users please shut up already.

So now it's your turn to be overly powerful? That's the argument?

No the argumentnis stamina and magicka are now fianlly balancing out I have seen plenty of magicka users still hitting extreamly hard and still be very hard to kill. Thats the argument that magicka is still top tier but those "bad magicka users" want easy mode again.

Was it fair that magicka users were unkillable ? No and now that you are your whining non-stop at ZoS to make you unkillable again.

Basicly in the simplest version all you "bad magicka players" Learn to play the style or switch to stamina since that's "easy mode" acording to the whining.

Stamina and Magicka aren't balance right now, not even close. The argument is that before Magicka was OP and was able to do everything; burst, sustain, heal. Then they nerfed it (rightfully so) but now stamina is able to do burst, sustain, and heal really well now too. It should not be that way. That is not balanced just because you didn't like magicka being the meta before and now stam is and you're happy about that. Balance is having to choose between damage, heals, sustain, etc.. you aren't supposed to be able to do everything. Magicka builds were able to do that and now it's stamina builds. To balance the game something must be altered so you are forced to give heals and sustain up for damage. I play both stamina and magicka toons on all classes (except sorcs) and right now all my stam builds can easily outperform my magicka builds. It's just not balanced and does need to be altered (not necessarily nerfed) for the good of the game and community.