[Permabans being lifted] ZOS how are we as a community dealing with exploits/hacking?

Digiman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KosPhi1vchQ

I know it's wrong but it feels so good seeing a barrage of meteors hit players like that....

Bromburak

NobleNerd wrote: »

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »

Thank you for raising this issue, we are investigating this issue. In the meantime, please continue to use the in-game report function to report players who are using any kind of exploit and refrain from posting names or videos showing names on these forums.

This has to be one of the most moronic rules I have ever seen! If someone is exploiting and abusing the game functions and rules then I see no issue with videos showing who it is, nor the community not being left in the dark. It's all over Youtube and other places which is seen by more people than the few in these forums.

You really want to read more about privacy rules first and what defamation actually means by law.

Keep in mind that the point here is not cheating, the point is that a player posting videos can be wrong.
After any name calling it's in peoples mind that this person is a cheater because you said so and no one cares
if he was innocent or not after.

So who is in charge for name calling by mistake then, you? And do you actually know what that means for the person?
I don't think so.

While we all agree with you as honest players, you need to understand that we are not in charge for investigations.
A professional game company will always tell you to send the material to them instead sharing with public.

Ghost-Shot

I actually had a little faith in ZOS restored when the bans went out, and now its all gone again. @ZOS_MattFiror this is pathetic. Give me a reason why we shouldn't all go out and install this BS right now if it doesn't matter and there are no repercussions? Everyone associated with this should be ashamed.

HoloYoitsu

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

I actually had a little faith in ZOS restored when the bans went out, and now its all gone again. @ZOS_MattFiror this is pathetic. Give me a reason why we shouldn't all go out and install this BS right now if it doesn't matter and there are no repercussions? Everyone associated with this should be ashamed.

Please don't call Matt out, we have a no naming and shaming policy on these forums.

XDragonDoomX

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »

Thank you for raising this issue, we are investigating this issue. In the meantime, please continue to use the in-game report function to report players who are using any kind of exploit and refrain from posting names or videos showing names on these forums.

As I have regularly been reporting exploiters & no action seems to have been taken, is it really worth my time & effort to continue ?

DisgracefulMind

So disappointed.

clocksstoppe

I guess we should all grab the chim engine because no matter how hard you cheat you will still get unbanned shortly after.

Turelus

Joining this late after living under my rock for a bit.

Anyone able to give me a catch up on where the information about perma-bans being lifted came from and how we know for sure they were. If it is the case then pretty much joining others and saying bye ZOS, however I want to make sure this is legit.

Turelus

Thanks! Will read it now and +1 insightful for you both.

Lava_Croft

Cheaters and the accompanying outrage on the forums have no real influence on ZOS' cashflow. ZOS has never really cared about exploiters and cheaters.

The only 'nice' thing about all of this is known exploiters crying in threads like this because they got outclassed by Cheat Engine users.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2VG53RIJ50

Turelus

So weighing in on this.

If this is indeed true and a player (or players) who used the cheat engine has been reinstated to the game that every single step forward and the credibility of ZOS in this matter is shot.

I have been massively critical of their rules enforcement since the launch of the game and with this recent bannings and the statements made by Jessica I finally though there was progress being made towards having a fair game.

Now I understand we may not have all the facts here and I will wait on passing massive judgement for now but I have to say this entire issue for the last couple of months starting with the exploit over surveys has done nothing but show apathy or incompetence on the part of ZOS.

Every other big MMO out there manages to give their community massive confidence after events like these, some of them even making gaming news with how they were handled and the fans were happy. However here we have no faith, because there has never been anything to give us that faith. Now when we finally have something, people are finally accepting ZOS had done and would continue to do something we have threads like above come up.

Once again the issues we are facing can be avoided with communication.
No need to give out names, no need to give out how exploits or cheats are done. However talking about what you're doing to prevent them, how your discipline system actually works etc.

Regarding the discipline system, I know in other games what the ban system is. I know there are strikes, I know my accounts are flagged forever once the first flag is there.
In ESO I don't know what will happen, I have seen people sprouting racial hatred in zones chats get no warnings, then seen others who trolled zone chat with "I'm going to give the scroll to blues" get warnings of account bans for trolling in their inbox the next morning.
We have seen people and guilds abuse every exploit possible walk free with minor punishments or temp bans only to see others with offensive character names receive harsher punishments.

There is no consistency in your discipline. Everything regarding enforcement of the game comes off feeling amateur and like no one actually knows what they should be doing, that or as above everyone doing it is just apathetic/incompetent.

daemonios

Turelus wrote: »

There is no consistency in your discipline. Everything regarding enforcement of the game comes off feeling amateur and like no one actually knows what they should be doing, that or as above everyone doing it is just apathetic/incompetent.

Could also be that the game is doing so poorly and/or cheating is so rampant that someone decided they can't afford to lose cheaters. The biggest problem here is that we don't know because ZOS don't tell us anything.

BTW the closing of the thread calling out the unbanning of a certain player was laughable. They didn't even bother to pull the "naming and shaming" rule, they simply claimed everyone should come to this thread. Because we need every comment buried in one easy to miss place, right?

holosoul

Turelus wrote: »

Every other big MMO out there manages to give their community massive confidence after events like these, some of them even making gaming news with how they were handled and the fans were happy.

Nothing like a public lynching to make the people happy.

Sorry, I don't really disagree with you but I couldn't help but think of how much of an "ad populum" that is.
More so than players getting banned, I'd like to see client side hacks made impossible to begin with.
Edit: clarification-- Hacking the client memory should have _zero_ effect on the server, what the honest to God !@#$

Turelus

holosoul wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Every other big MMO out there manages to give their community massive confidence after events like these, some of them even making gaming news with how they were handled and the fans were happy.

Nothing like a public lynching to make the people happy.

Sorry, I don't really disagree with you but I couldn't help but think of how much of an "ad populum" that is.
More so than players getting banned, I'd like to see client side hacks made impossible to begin with.
Edit: clarification-- Hacking the client memory should have _zero_ effect on the server, what the honest to God !@#$

Sure I agree they need to fix the issues, but actual enforcement of the rules (which exists and we all agreed to) would help to deter this proliferation of cheating/exploiting we have seen since the games start.

Right now every action they have taken to date I can think of (if the current unbans are true) only goes to set the precedent that cheating is fine because you stand to lose nothing.

GreatWhite000

Does this mean that it's safe for cheaters to go about doing their thing while legit players sit back and watch? What a joke.

Lava_Croft

GreatWhite000 wrote: »

Does this mean that it's safe for cheaters to go about doing their thing while legit players sit back and watch? What a joke.

This has basically always been the case with ESO.

Martinus72

Now I'm quite shocked hearing this, I'm not even interested in pvp at this moment so it shouldn't bother me but it does just because clinging to cheating morons is just plain wrong politics...
Do people who made this baffling decision even know the meaning of permanent word?
I'm quite speechless to be honest.

Wollust

Woke up to this stuff linked in a group.
Read.
Going back to sleep.
Can't deal with ZoS' incompetence anymore.

Turelus

GreatWhite000 wrote: »

Does this mean that it's safe for cheaters to go about doing their thing while legit players sit back and watch? What a joke.

That's the precedent they continue to set.

Now I have no problems with ZOS giving out suspension rather than bans for first offences. HOWEVER and this is a very big however, they also need to remove any ill gotten gains and make sure the account didn't benefit from it and has a flag meaning any future transgressions result in a permanent ban.

Otherwise why not just abuse something, reap the rewards, take some time off to play the new enhances Skyrim (once it's out) then come back and enjoy all those benefits you gained by means which are deemed against Terms of Service.

Turelus

Martinus72 wrote: »

Now I'm quite shocked hearing this, I'm not even interested in pvp at this moment so it shouldn't bother me but it does just because clinging to cheating morons is just plain wrong politics...
Do people who made this baffling decision even know the meaning of permanent word?
I'm quite speechless to be honest.

The person in question was banned for abusing it in PvE to top vMSA not in PvP. Apparently his score was never reset either.

If the above is true the correct thing to do for a suspension of this type is to remove the score, remove all vMSA rewards from the account. That way they have the time away from game to understand if they receive a permanent ban what that would mean as well as coming back to see their gains removed, maybe some they got legally but they now lose out on that because they abused. Finally add a marker to that account as well as informing the account holder that this account is now marked and any further breeches of the ToS will result in a permanent ban.

ZOS should also state when making such suspensions/bans that "Some accounts received temporary bans but have had all gains removed from their account". Then when a player who everyone knows cheated comes back at least everyone knows that they have not gained from the event.

This is how every other MMO company I have played a game from functions, I just don't understand why this is so hard for ZOS to achieve. You have tiers of bans if you wish, but you also take gains away and inform you community of what actions were taken in large cases via an announcement thread/news article (not a single forums post which gets buried).

boundsy88

Still no word from ZOS on this. rather pathetic.

daemonios

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Is this going to be like vet levels 2.0 where ZOS looks to the side and whistles pretending nothing is wrong for a year and a half until their playerbase becomes anemic and they're forced to act?

We're not finished with our efforts to keep cheaters out of ESO by any means - if anything, the round of bannings you all saw was just the beginning of a multi-faceted effort. Some of it you'll see, some of it you won't (beyond cheaters getting banned.) There's a good possibility we'll quietly roll out what we're working on so that those still using cheat programs aren't tipped off and we catch them in the act.

Right now this post feels like a bad joke.

Turelus

boundsy88 wrote: »

Still no word from ZOS on this. rather pathetic.

I think they're in bed still no? I forget what their exact timezone is.

That being said I wouldn't expect to see anything here until Jessica has been cleared/briefed on what statement to make. They're not going to talk about the exact issue because by their own rules they can't talk about individual bans etc.

They kind of shot themselves in the foot by only talking about permanent bans and not mentioning suspensions if that's the case of what happened here.

Azurethe

I may be wrong but from experience I bet the next comment from some ZOS overseer on the forums will be something about removing some posts that were baity, removed posts that were naming and shaming, removing posts that were demonstrating exploiting, and telling us all to continue the discussion and keep it civil

Could be wrong, but that's pretty much what they do every single time a thread like this happens

Wtrenga

I'm sorry for the question but where do I see that they re-activated their accounts?

HoloYoitsu

Wtrenga wrote: »

I'm sorry for the question but where do I see that they re-activated their accounts?

People see them log in on their friend list, and running around in game.

Turelus

Zoner wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Zoner wrote: »

Still not as permaban-worthy as making a redguard called The Bill Cosby Experience apparently. Priorities and all.

If someone actually got a perma-ban for that then this just goes to once again prove what I was saying about inconsistent rulings. Things like that can be handled with a simple GM name change and a warning.
Not sure how it works in ESO but I know in EVE Online* your character is reset to "Caldari Citizen 1241334893" which is your race then a number tied to your character, then a GM will contact you saying you can have one free name change for that character, you reply with what you want and they change it.

If people are perma-banned for offensive/trolling names but other are able to spout hate speech in zone chats (full one racial hatred stuff) and not even see a ban (the said player was around for months every day) then I have to ask WTF is going on at ZOS.


* Apologies for the continued reference of this but I played for over seven years and they have a very open policy about how they handle the game.

I really hope someone at Zeni is reading this.

I'm sure someone is. However as always I fear nothing will change.

Personally to me it has always seemed that you have different levels of people at ZOS/Zenimax Media.

You have the people who we often see and talk to who are those passionate about the game, reading the forums and interacting with the community. These are the people who understand what we're saying and want the changes to happen, they want to run a great game where it's fair and enjoyable.

Then you have the typical suits who make the decisions but are completely disconnected from the game and don't understand what running an MMO actually entails or where the areas to put real funding is. These are the people who want to see high subscriber numbers, player retentions and sales but don't want to invest into areas which are not causing losses in those areas.

I don't know what ZOS has in place for their security team, none of us do. However having never seen a senior GM post on the forums nor any real comment from their in game security team I can't help but feel they use some kind of outsourced group to manage it rather than an in house team who work closely with the developers.

If the above is true it would go a long way to explaining why exploits and cheats take so long to be dealt with. If the support tickets we send in under "Exploit" go to a generic customer service team who don't even work in the same offices how are those people (who may not even play the game) meant to know what's actually an issue which needs to be forwarded on as vital vs those which are more players who don't understand game mechanics/system.

I know EVE Online actually has an email address (security @ blah blah . blah) in which players are able to send emails that go direct to the security teams which handle the game. These teams are in the same office as the Developers/Producers and have direct access to them if needed. The point of the email though is when something big is found like a major exploit, or botting, ToS breaching activities found on websites outside of the game etc. they can go right to the person they need to be with to be handled.

As someone from the outside all I can say is in the last two years whatever security teams ZOS have in place doesn't seem to be working. Sure we seen bans happen, sure we see exploits fixed but it's at a pace which seems very amateur and clunky as if the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing as the term goes.

Again this is all how I feel and doesn't represent ZOS in any way. However after two years of playing this game this one issue of horrible enforcement of their ToS so much so I have seen friends who never would have cheated/exploited in the past turn around and say now they would because why not?

I know ZOS are probably working on the issues, I do believe Jessica when she says some people were perma-banned and I believe her when she says they're working on the issue as they take it seriously. However the lack of communication, announcements, or investment into security for the game makes all of that meaningless because they lack so much credibility.

/endrant

makreth

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

makreth wrote: »

so how long does that perma-banned status last?

14 days

Coo' !!!! All i need to find out now is how to play God in a ....roleplay manner ! Thank you

makreth

Guys don't forget we need to prepare for "One Tamriel" and that means that we should tolerate all people around. One Tamriel, One World, all people united, all factions united, legit and cheaters united, feel the love !

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Wow, did this really happen? I'm curious about some official feedback.

Oh, wait... actually I don't care. See you on the other side, I guess.