Stealth + Proximity Detonation needs attention (screenshot proof)

OdinForge · January 2016

Yo. You got hit by a 9.7K prox det, and came to the forum asking for nerfs.

Dkill · January 2016

Solariken wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

From one of the many *** nightblades that roam the sewers, I'd like to draw some attention to the nearly 10k Proximity Detonation ON A SINGLE TARGET.

THIS IS ON A SINGLE TARGET.

This kind of burst is absolutely ridiculous. Please stop this madness.

EDIT: I was also buffed with Quick Cloak. Prox Det would have been ~12k if I wasn't buffed...

https://dropbox.com/s/00kxh6lxkcu2chf/Untitled.png?dl=0

Stop asking for Nerf and ask for a server fix, everytime Zos do increment or maintenance to try to nerf your request the server gets worst and they brake a different thing. SO STOP ASKING FOR NERF

This skill is completely busted. Being obliterated from stealth before you have time to react is not quality gameplay. It's garbage design. Stop defending this trash.

There is no "server fix" for stupid.

Just so you know there was no need to call me stupid, and i wont do the same to you good sir. But it seems you dont understand that the problem is not Proximity Detonation, the reason you dying instantly is because

1- You are not doing anything to mitigated the damage
2- The lag is too strong once again ( ask ZOS to fix the server )
3- You just dont see the red warning of the proxis around you
Finally you just a bad player it was only 9K and you only lost 10 TV come on mate stop crying

Simple as that .....
Cheers Have a great day

SneaK · January 2016

L2P and stop posting your tears on the forums.

It's already being looked at because of baddies like you.

Derra · January 2016

Alcast wrote: »

Proxi was designed as a Zergbuster and now it is used as Single Target dmg skill, gg.

Even if they halve it´s current dmg it will be used as a singletarget ability because it´s precasted dmg...

It´s simply crappy designed and should never gotten it´s casttime removed.

Zyle · January 2016

OP what is your spell resistance?

Lore_lai · January 2016

OP you would have gotten ganked even if that NB didn't have proxi.

SneaK · January 2016

Derra wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Proxi was designed as a Zergbuster and now it is used as Single Target dmg skill, gg.

Even if they halve it´s current dmg it will be used as a singletarget ability because it´s precasted dmg...

It´s simply crappy designed and should never gotten it´s casttime removed.

It'll be used as single target damage cause melee magicka builds lack burst without it.

If it gets nerfed then they need to buff all the magicka melee abilities significantly, ie Whip, Sweeps, Concealed.

Nerfing Prox will gimp melee mag builds incredibly.

Solariken · January 2016

Dkill wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

From one of the many *** nightblades that roam the sewers, I'd like to draw some attention to the nearly 10k Proximity Detonation ON A SINGLE TARGET.

THIS IS ON A SINGLE TARGET.

This kind of burst is absolutely ridiculous. Please stop this madness.

EDIT: I was also buffed with Quick Cloak. Prox Det would have been ~12k if I wasn't buffed...

https://dropbox.com/s/00kxh6lxkcu2chf/Untitled.png?dl=0

Stop asking for Nerf and ask for a server fix, everytime Zos do increment or maintenance to try to nerf your request the server gets worst and they brake a different thing. SO STOP ASKING FOR NERF

This skill is completely busted. Being obliterated from stealth before you have time to react is not quality gameplay. It's garbage design. Stop defending this trash.

There is no "server fix" for stupid.

Just so you know there was no need to call me stupid, and i wont do the same to you good sir. But it seems you dont understand that the problem is not Proximity Detonation, the reason you dying instantly is because

1- You are not doing anything to mitigated the damage
2- The lag is too strong once again ( ask ZOS to fix the server )
3- You just dont see the red warning of the proxis around you
Finally you just a bad player

Simple as that .....
Cheers Have a great day

I was not calling you stupid at all, I was referring to the design of the ability. It's stupid.

1- You're right, I was running from one room to another in IC, but I was fully buffed and wearing Quick Cloak and Shuffle.
2- There was no lag, this was in IC.
3- In IC, any good NB will cast Proxy in a hallway and then cloak. The red circle does not travel with them. It's impossible to see this coming.

Finally, I'm actually a pretty decent player and perform pretty well in 1v1 and small 1vX. Getting obliterated from stealth with no warning does not make me a bad player. It makes stealth gameplay overly advantageous and garbage design.

pjwb16_ESO · January 2016

Derra wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Proxi was designed as a Zergbuster and now it is used as Single Target dmg skill, gg.

Even if they halve it´s current dmg it will be used as a singletarget ability because it´s precasted dmg...

It´s simply crappy designed and should never gotten it´s casttime removed.

agreed

Chrlynsch · January 2016

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

So explain to me why magicka classes shouldn't have access to hard-hitting skills like stam classes do? Hrmm?

I wish stamina had a skill i can toss on and forget about for free dps while i cast other skills

Evil hunter?

Solariken · January 2016

Lore_lai wrote: »

OP you would have gotten ganked even if that NB didn't have proxi.

Possibly, but I would have been able to put up an actual fight without Prox Det. I roll with 27k health and I'm no scrub.

Zyle · January 2016

Solariken wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

OP you would have gotten ganked even if that NB didn't have proxi.

Possibly, but I would have been able to put up an actual fight without Prox Det. I roll with 27k health and I'm no scrub.

What is your spell resistance?

Dkill · January 2016

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Proxi was designed as a Zergbuster and now it is used as Single Target dmg skill, gg.

Even if they halve it´s current dmg it will be used as a singletarget ability because it´s precasted dmg...

It´s simply crappy designed and should never gotten it´s casttime removed.

agreed

I think is just fine the way it is and i play Stamina NB must of the time so i dont use Proxi det. I do have high Spell resistance over 23K and that helps a lot.

Solariken · January 2016

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

OP you would have gotten ganked even if that NB didn't have proxi.

Possibly, but I would have been able to put up an actual fight without Prox Det. I roll with 27k health and I'm no scrub.

What is your spell resistance?

Looks like the server is down for maintenance so I can't check actual, but I'm pretty sure my resist is in the neighborhood of ~17k with 10% hard magic reduction from CP.

I'd also like to point out that I was buffed with Quick Cloak for an additional 20% mitigation. : /

ks888 · January 2016

Proper gear, shields, and the general situation awareness required to do well in PvP negates the risk of getting wrecked by proxy. Red circle = bad, should be avoided. Does not need a nerf.

tplink3r1 · January 2016

Lore_lai wrote: »

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

So explain to me why magicka classes shouldn't have access to hard-hitting skills like stam classes do? Hrmm?

I wish stamina had a skill i can toss on and forget about for free dps while i cast other skills

"Free" DPS? You do know that it costs magicka to cast it yeah?

Just because it's delayed hit and you can time it with other skill doesn't mean it's free.
It even has a freakin red circle around it so you know exactly what the radius is. Not the same thing can be said about Wrecking Blow which is notoriously vague with its hitbox, especially when clipped with a heavy attack.

Not to mention WB cc can be so buggy. Oh wait - Proxi doesn't even have a CC.

Or should I mention those bow heavies?

It's funny though - stamina classes wanting moar damage.

Just spin2win, man, just spin2win. Now you have the axe bleed on top of the execute too

If you have magicka problems you are doing something wrong.

Lore_lai · January 2016

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

So explain to me why magicka classes shouldn't have access to hard-hitting skills like stam classes do? Hrmm?

I wish stamina had a skill i can toss on and forget about for free dps while i cast other skills

"Free" DPS? You do know that it costs magicka to cast it yeah?

Just because it's delayed hit and you can time it with other skill doesn't mean it's free.
It even has a freakin red circle around it so you know exactly what the radius is. Not the same thing can be said about Wrecking Blow which is notoriously vague with its hitbox, especially when clipped with a heavy attack.

Not to mention WB cc can be so buggy. Oh wait - Proxi doesn't even have a CC.

Or should I mention those bow heavies?

It's funny though - stamina classes wanting moar damage.

Just spin2win, man, just spin2win. Now you have the axe bleed on top of the execute too

If you have magicka problems you are doing something wrong.

Wut? o.O How on Earth you came to that conclusion from what I wrote is beyond me.
But if what you're hinting at is that mag is on par with stam damage wise in PvP then I think you need to change your skooma dealer.

And pls don't list overall tooltips - look at the whole picture - much easier to get spellresist, CP system mitigation, harness magicka etc.

Zyle · January 2016

Solariken wrote: »

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

OP you would have gotten ganked even if that NB didn't have proxi.

Possibly, but I would have been able to put up an actual fight without Prox Det. I roll with 27k health and I'm no scrub.

What is your spell resistance?

Looks like the server is down for maintenance so I can't check actual, but I'm pretty sure my resist is in the neighborhood of ~17k with 10% hard magic reduction from CP.

I'd also like to point out that I was buffed with Quick Cloak for an additional 20% mitigation. : /

Even with 17k SR & 30% reduction a decent pen + crit setup is going to hit that hard or harder unfortunately. Especially if you have 0 or next to no critical resistance.

Personally I hate proxy det because I don't think it served the original purpose the devs intended. For that reason I think it should be removed from the game or drastically changed but I doubt that will happen. Mag NBs usually rely on it for burst and for some reason ZOS still thinks it helps against stacking.

I've been hit for 12k+ pretty frequently if I'm caught unaware or the enemy times fear well, but running 15k spell resistance with only 10% crit reduction is my choice in a sense.

Looking at your death recap I can see why you're focused on the proxy det as it is the highest number, but in all reality that isn't what got you killed in that encounter. It helped, but as you said you run 27k health and comparing it to the soul harvest on the recap I'd say you need to up your crit resist some more to see a definite difference.

If you can survive the initial burst you will most likely win in the end from my experiences. If you want a decent comparison chart for impen @Crown has an awesome one located here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ktbYDsiyI7W6v5k2JFSHJPSUw5p0RRaIW_-K3MBIbr8

Solariken · January 2016

ks888 wrote: »

Proper gear, shields, and the general situation awareness required to do well in PvP negates the risk of getting wrecked by proxy. Red circle = bad, should be avoided. Does not need a nerf.

I'm full v16 legendary and had Quick Cloak, Shuffle, and Rally up. Nightblades have specific advantages with timing the burst in this skill. They cast it out of sight (aka in the hallway) and the red circle does not display during cloak. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Kr3do · January 2016

Solariken wrote: »

Kr3do wrote: »

Its a massive red circle arround the enemy? Why dont you just block?

You serious? This happened in IC, and it was a skilled nightblade who specializes in 1-second kills. If you PvP at all, you know that the red circle appears when the ability is cast but does NOT move with the nightblade after he uses Cloak. So a NB with half a brain will cast it in the hallway, cloak, and run into your room and burst you for 3 times your health pool. Don't act like this is acceptable, because it's not.

And a player with half a brain would blook when the Nightblade casts the proxi and goes into stealth

Joy_Division · January 2016

Was your gear broken at the time?

Ashamray · January 2016

9.7 k every (it was crit, btw) 8 seconds. Lol.
Lol.
.

ks888 · January 2016

Solariken wrote: »

ks888 wrote: »

Proper gear, shields, and the general situation awareness required to do well in PvP negates the risk of getting wrecked by proxy. Red circle = bad, should be avoided. Does not need a nerf.

I'm full v16 legendary and had Quick Cloak, Shuffle, and Rally up. Nightblades have specific advantages with timing the burst in this skill. They cast it out of sight (aka in the hallway) and the red circle does not display during cloak. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Kk bruh, to each their own, but myself and my buddies haven't had any issues with it and we grind in there pretty regularly. The last proxy det that kicked my arse in the sewers was an emp det, which as a VR 1 at the time, I couldn't do a heck of alot about anyways lol.

Solariken · January 2016

Kr3do wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Kr3do wrote: »

Its a massive red circle arround the enemy? Why dont you just block?

You serious? This happened in IC, and it was a skilled nightblade who specializes in 1-second kills. If you PvP at all, you know that the red circle appears when the ability is cast but does NOT move with the nightblade after he uses Cloak. So a NB with half a brain will cast it in the hallway, cloak, and run into your room and burst you for 3 times your health pool. Don't act like this is acceptable, because it's not.

And a player with half a brain would blook when the Nightblade casts the proxi and goes into stealth

I didn't see him cast it bro, this was a total surprise attack. It doesn't matter what portion of a full brain you have. There is no real counter to Lotus Fan > CW > FEAR > Soul Harvest > Proxy > CW.

I didn't even finish the break-free from the fear before I was dead.

Solariken · January 2016

Ashamray wrote: »

9.7 k every (it was crit, btw) 8 seconds. Lol.
Lol.
.

It's not used for sustained DPS, it's used for burst. You trolling bro?

eventide03b14a_ESO · January 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Was your gear broken at the time?

Wouldn't have been a lot higher than 9k if that was the case?

eventide03b14a_ESO · January 2016

ks888 wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

ks888 wrote: »

Proper gear, shields, and the general situation awareness required to do well in PvP negates the risk of getting wrecked by proxy. Red circle = bad, should be avoided. Does not need a nerf.

I'm full v16 legendary and had Quick Cloak, Shuffle, and Rally up. Nightblades have specific advantages with timing the burst in this skill. They cast it out of sight (aka in the hallway) and the red circle does not display during cloak. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Kk bruh, to each their own, but myself and my buddies haven't had any issues with it and we grind in there pretty regularly. The last proxy det that kicked my arse in the sewers was an emp det, which as a VR 1 at the time, I couldn't do a heck of alot about anyways lol.

Seems like just another excuse to complain about cloak.

Solariken · January 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Was your gear broken at the time?

Haha, no, but it might as well have been. This particular NB is DC and homed to PC Azura, so you probably know who it is.

Crown · January 2016

Solariken wrote: »

Kr3do wrote: »

Its a massive red circle arround the enemy? Why dont you just block?

You serious? This happened in IC, and it was a skilled nightblade who specializes in 1-second kills. If you PvP at all, you know that the red circle appears when the ability is cast but does NOT move with the nightblade after he uses Cloak. So a NB with half a brain will cast it in the hallway, cloak, and run into your room and burst you for 3 times your health pool. Don't act like this is acceptable, because it's not.

That was not a 1 second kill. Look at what you took from damage, there are at least three casts with repositioning time between them. Unless you stood still and let him kill you (in which case it's your own fault), there were at best 3.5 seconds and at worst 4.5 seconds of fighting. Based on your death recap, this is what thappened:

1. Nightblade cast proxy and then immediately stealthed.
2. Nightblade cast Lotus Fan, and you for hit for 1,601 damage - it may have been more and this number is simply one of the DoT ticks.
3. Nightblade cast Concealed weapon, and you got hit for 5,703 damage
4. Nightblade cast Soul Harvest and you got hit for 5,054 damage
5. Nightblade's Proxy went off after the soul harvest, so it got a 20 % buff to damage and you got hit for 9,708 damage. If this hadn't happened after the ultimate, it would have been 7,766 damage. It's important to note that THE NIGHTBLADE USED HIS ULTIMATE, and it only did 5054 damage, that then buffed the next skill for an extra 2k damage. If this had been a DK leap doing well above 10k damage with an empowered buff that has a cc, you probably wouldn't have complained because that's an ult.
6. Nightblade cast Concealed weapon, which was also buffed for 20% extra damage from the ultimate, and you got hit for 6,842 damage.

In summary, there were two casts prior to damage starting (proxy and lotus fan), then three cast over what was probably about three and a half seconds for you to die.

Based on the charts I've made of my own proxy detonation damage caused and received, and the impen/resistant numbers, I guesstimate that the person who hit you is running a 60%+ crit build (Julianos / Mage Light / NB Bonus), probably used a pot to bring tha tup to 80% ish, and your crit-mitigation level is rather low (likely 10-15%).

A 3.5 second kill on a target from a magicka Nightblade is very reasonable. Much longer than any stamina build sitting in stealth with a camo hunter -> heavy attack - > snipe which can each proc for more than the proxy, and kill you in 2.2 seconds (average for a good bow kill from stealth). It's also longer than any stamina build sitting in stealth with a camo hunter -> wrecking blow -> wrecking blow -> executioner, which is a 2.4 second kill if done well.

Magicka NBs will open with Lotus Fan or Concealed weapon. If lotus fan, as soon as you see the animation for soul harvest (which they will do to get 20% increased damage on proxy) you have to block for about 1.5 seconds, so just block cast your next spell. If they open with concealed weapon for the stun, then you need to break free and roll through them. It will take them 3/4 of a second to reposition, and by then you should have initiated your own counter damage routine. Magicka NBs are squishy, and if you can get a cc off, then most will retreat and try again later.

ZOS have already stated that the detonation skills will have reduced damage to single targets, and *possibly* increased damage to more targets, so your wish will be granted.

If this is indeed a serious thread about the amount of damage taken from one hit, then I expect to see you raging about "nerf snipe", "nerf heavy attacks", "nerf wrecking blow", and a few others very soon..

Lord_Wrath · January 2016

I just dont get it, nightblades can sneak around, insta-pop you without you having a chance to even swap weapons or coward away if it doesnt work. But 9.7k from magicka detonation is so bad? Like us sorcs get much to work with, especially when we are so brittle and have to rely on shields to keep up survivability every 15-20 seconds or less. I use it because everyone else is trying to burst DPS, nothing else couples better with curse and quite frankly lots of abilities for us really arent that effective damage wise.