I will be sincerely disappointed in ZoS's common sense if they nerf Cloak.

newtinmpls

The_Outsider wrote: »

Also, most people wrongly assume that Cloak is just an insta-win. An avoid all damage and pressure at the push of a button. This is not the case. Cloak must be combined with positioning, situational awareness, Line-of-Sight, and a few earnest prayers that your enemies don't slot counters, to even be effective.

Yes! ^^^ This

As a new nightblade I was initially very freaked that it "wasn't working" but then realized that I need skill developed by practice to use it effectively.

Lava_Croft

This is a lovely discussion and all, but the people who think they are making a case in favor of Cloak by saying 'it's the Nightblade's only defense' are better off just not replying to threads like this at all.

Rayste

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

It is very simple, NB was gimped for a year so while everyone (except maybe the temps) were enjoying easy mode we learned to adapt and play. Now ZOS have fixed a broken skill and suddenly with our full toolset all that learning is paying off, we know about mobility and LoS, but other classes now need to learn that too - but it is much easier to call for nerfs and ZOS have already said they will change their nappies... no... sorry... 'balance' cloak... but we will still kill the bad ones. The good ones won't care 'cos they already adapted to a nearly working cloak and are still doing fine.

This made me smirk. You are serious aren't you?

NativeJoe

jnorris91ub17_ESO wrote: »

Go play Nightblade.

In combat, Cloak is extremely unreliable as a tool of evasion because AoEs and potions are extremely easy to obtain.

It's useless as a tool of escape against anyone with these counters.

And outside of combat, it doesn't matter what it does. All this complaint about Cloaking around is completely beside the point. A Cloaked Nightblade is not dealing damage, and what damage they do deal is either inhibited by Magelight (for magicka uses) or completely outclassed by your own damage (for stamina users) thanks to the CP system and weapon damage weapon glyphs.

is it unreliable or are you just not an expert with it? Because just about every nightblade I encounter in IC can zoom around me like a ninja, dodge roll, stun, stabby, then stealth, then rinse and repeat while I'm able to only connect 1 or 2 attacks at most. (which all that damage is then quickly negated with their siphons and freaking vigor) <.< I seriously have to pull out the noob cannon to even kill these guys (overload) Course I might just be a bad sorc too :P but seriously you guys are incredibly hard to catch and kill ...and latly there has been a super combo of vampire nightblades that hard cc you, then just unload absolute death on you. prox detonation nightblades with a macro stun combonation can pretty much kill me in 3-4 seconds. even with a 14k shield on me x.x The hide and seek game everytime I come close to killing one of you, then the whole ambush , stun , and incredible burst is just crazy. Next dlc it's going to get even worse! because you guys are going to have CRAZY sets at your disposal. lots of niche builds are possible...expecially with the 14k shield set everytime you avoid being hit for 10 seconds <.<

Alas I digress. I'm against ALL NERFS... instead I'm FOR raising other classes up to the same level and giving them counters to such. ( just had to comment because on your original post because you make it sound like your class is hanging by a thread. I've seen a few stages of night blade development and you guys weren't a threat to me at all 3 months ago(14% of my deaths came from your class)... now 47% of my deaths come from the nightblade class so I guess I just don't see how you came to the conclusion that your weak in any regard. if they took away ur stealth entirely I doubt the deaths from your class would drop 10% because you have so many other resources to pull from.)

tonemd

NativeJoe wrote: »

jnorris91ub17_ESO wrote: »

Go play Nightblade.

In combat, Cloak is extremely unreliable as a tool of evasion because AoEs and potions are extremely easy to obtain.

It's useless as a tool of escape against anyone with these counters.

And outside of combat, it doesn't matter what it does. All this complaint about Cloaking around is completely beside the point. A Cloaked Nightblade is not dealing damage, and what damage they do deal is either inhibited by Magelight (for magicka uses) or completely outclassed by your own damage (for stamina users) thanks to the CP system and weapon damage weapon glyphs.

is it unreliable or are you just not an expert with it? Because just about every nightblade I encounter in IC can zoom around me like a ninja, dodge roll, stun, stabby, then stealth, then rinse and repeat while I'm able to only connect 1 or 2 attacks at most. (which all that damage is then quickly negated with their siphons and freaking vigor) <.< I seriously have to pull out the noob cannon to even kill these guys (overload) Course I might just be a bad sorc too :P but seriously you guys are incredibly hard to catch and kill ...and latly there has been a super combo of vampire nightblades that hard cc you, then just unload absolute death on you. prox detonation nightblades with a macro stun combonation can pretty much kill me in 3-4 seconds. even with a 14k shield on me x.x The hide and seek game everytime I come close to killing one of you, then the whole ambush , stun , and incredible burst is just crazy. Next dlc it's going to get even worse! because you guys are going to have CRAZY sets at your disposal. lots of niche builds are possible...expecially with the 14k shield set everytime you avoid being hit for 10 seconds <.<

Are they killing you?

Also, if you're talking about a magic vampire nightblade, you're talking about specific build. As a stam NB I say Nerf vampire, leave cloak alone.

Second thought, turn cloak into GDB with minor evasion and take away the invisibility and I can live.

KenaPKK

NativeJoe wrote: »

jnorris91ub17_ESO wrote: »

Go play Nightblade.

In combat, Cloak is extremely unreliable as a tool of evasion because AoEs and potions are extremely easy to obtain.

It's useless as a tool of escape against anyone with these counters.

And outside of combat, it doesn't matter what it does. All this complaint about Cloaking around is completely beside the point. A Cloaked Nightblade is not dealing damage, and what damage they do deal is either inhibited by Magelight (for magicka uses) or completely outclassed by your own damage (for stamina users) thanks to the CP system and weapon damage weapon glyphs.

is it unreliable or are you just not an expert with it? Because just about every nightblade I encounter in IC can zoom around me like a ninja, dodge roll, stun, stabby, then stealth, then rinse and repeat while I'm able to only connect 1 or 2 attacks at most. (which all that damage is then quickly negated with their siphons and freaking vigor) <.< I seriously have to pull out the noob cannon to even kill these guys (overload) Course I might just be a bad sorc too :P but seriously you guys are incredibly hard to catch and kill ...and latly there has been a super combo of vampire nightblades that hard cc you, then just unload absolute death on you. prox detonation nightblades with a macro stun combonation can pretty much kill me in 3-4 seconds. even with a 14k shield on me x.x The hide and seek game everytime I come close to killing one of you, then the whole ambush , stun , and incredible burst is just crazy. Next dlc it's going to get even worse! because you guys are going to have CRAZY sets at your disposal. lots of niche builds are possible...expecially with the 14k shield set everytime you avoid being hit for 10 seconds <.<

Alas I digress. I'm against ALL NERFS... instead I'm FOR raising other classes up to the same level and giving them counters to such. ( just had to comment because on your original post because you make it sound like your class is hanging by a thread. I've seen a few stages of night blade development and you guys weren't a threat to me at all 3 months ago(14% of my deaths came from your class)... now 47% of my deaths come from the nightblade class so I guess I just don't see how you came to the conclusion that your weak in any regard. if they took away ur stealth entirely I doubt the deaths from your class would drop 10% because you have so many other resources to pull from.)

I'm one of the best PvP magicka nightblade players in the game, actually. The ability doesn't need to be changed. Other things do, such as stam nb damage and healing ward being so strong.

Dredlord

Lava_Croft wrote: »

This is a lovely discussion and all, but the people who think they are making a case in favor of Cloak by saying 'it's the Nightblade's only defense' are better off just not replying to threads like this at all.

My thoughts exactly...

splat71

NativeJoe wrote: »

jnorris91ub17_ESO wrote: »

Alas I digress. I'm against ALL NERFS... instead I'm FOR raising other classes up to the same level and giving them counters to such.

^^ This x 100! I desperately wish that instead of nerfing everything into the ground, ZOS would buff the under performing or broken skills and classes. Give us additional skill lines and varied morphs. There are so many great suggestions on the forums that don't involve massive nerfs. Balancing should be done incrementally with precision, not with the giant nerf bat of doom.

RoamingRiverElk

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Cloak doesn't need a nerf, but neither did bolt escape (at least not the latest one), reflective scales, or blazing shield. Block didn't need a nerf, or dodge roll. The only thing that needed to happen in this game was a cap on champion points, soft caps put back in the game (they could adjust the cap when they adjusted champion points if need be), Some form of dynamic ult gen to aid when fighting outnumbered, armor pen and nirn fixes, and health going back to the 1.5 ratio it was at prior to 1.6. However it is much easier to apply blanket nerfs and nerf every skill into the ground until there is nothing left to whine about.

This.

Darnathian

jnorris91ub17_ESO wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

I agree OP! Great feedback!

Why thank you.

lol. All I can say is lol. Beg all you can want. You think your post will stop it? All you are doing is bringing more attention to the issue. That along with shield stacking will be balanced.

Lava_Croft

NativeJoe wrote: »

jnorris91ub17_ESO wrote: »

Go play Nightblade.

In combat, Cloak is extremely unreliable as a tool of evasion because AoEs and potions are extremely easy to obtain.

It's useless as a tool of escape against anyone with these counters.

And outside of combat, it doesn't matter what it does. All this complaint about Cloaking around is completely beside the point. A Cloaked Nightblade is not dealing damage, and what damage they do deal is either inhibited by Magelight (for magicka uses) or completely outclassed by your own damage (for stamina users) thanks to the CP system and weapon damage weapon glyphs.

is it unreliable or are you just not an expert with it? Because just about every nightblade I encounter in IC can zoom around me like a ninja, dodge roll, stun, stabby, then stealth, then rinse and repeat while I'm able to only connect 1 or 2 attacks at most. (which all that damage is then quickly negated with their siphons and freaking vigor) <.< I seriously have to pull out the noob cannon to even kill these guys (overload) Course I might just be a bad sorc too :P but seriously you guys are incredibly hard to catch and kill ...and latly there has been a super combo of vampire nightblades that hard cc you, then just unload absolute death on you. prox detonation nightblades with a macro stun combonation can pretty much kill me in 3-4 seconds. even with a 14k shield on me x.x The hide and seek game everytime I come close to killing one of you, then the whole ambush , stun , and incredible burst is just crazy. Next dlc it's going to get even worse! because you guys are going to have CRAZY sets at your disposal. lots of niche builds are possible...expecially with the 14k shield set everytime you avoid being hit for 10 seconds <.<

Alas I digress. I'm against ALL NERFS... instead I'm FOR raising other classes up to the same level and giving them counters to such. ( just had to comment because on your original post because you make it sound like your class is hanging by a thread. I've seen a few stages of night blade development and you guys weren't a threat to me at all 3 months ago(14% of my deaths came from your class)... now 47% of my deaths come from the nightblade class so I guess I just don't see how you came to the conclusion that your weak in any regard. if they took away ur stealth entirely I doubt the deaths from your class would drop 10% because you have so many other resources to pull from.)

These Nightblades require you to use Overload to be able to kill them?

What.

Xsorus

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

It is very simple, NB was gimped for a year so while everyone (except maybe the temps) were enjoying easy mode we learned to adapt and play. Now ZOS have fixed a broken skill and suddenly with our full toolset all that learning is paying off, we know about mobility and LoS, but other classes now need to learn that too - but it is much easier to call for nerfs and ZOS have already said they will change their nappies... no... sorry... 'balance' cloak... but we will still kill the bad ones. The good ones won't care 'cos they already adapted to a nearly working cloak and are still doing fine.

At no point during the last year and a half was nightblade gimped.. Don't kid yourself

DannyLV702

Bashev wrote: »

jnorris91ub17_ESO wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Even if they remove the invisibility from dark cloak it will be still useful cause it removes up to 5 DoTs.

It would still be useful in very, very limited situations, but pretty much ANY other skill would be more useful.

Also, the Nightblade class as a whole would be weak as hell because they rely so heavily on cloak. No other class relies as heavily on one skill as Nightblade does on cloak.

DKs relied on GDB and block. Guess what ZOS dont care. When ppl complain ZOS nerf. And BTW if you check the posts since release I am pretty sure that all the other classes combined together didn call for nerfs as much NBs did.

Sorcerers rely on our shields as much as you rely on cloak, and now we have weaker shields and spamming shieldbreakers to look out for. Stop acting like the only victim...

Bashev

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

jnorris91ub17_ESO wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Even if they remove the invisibility from dark cloak it will be still useful cause it removes up to 5 DoTs.

It would still be useful in very, very limited situations, but pretty much ANY other skill would be more useful.

Also, the Nightblade class as a whole would be weak as hell because they rely so heavily on cloak. No other class relies as heavily on one skill as Nightblade does on cloak.

DKs relied on GDB and block. Guess what ZOS dont care. When ppl complain ZOS nerf. And BTW if you check the posts since release I am pretty sure that all the other classes combined together didn call for nerfs as much NBs did.

Sorcerers rely on our shields as much as you rely on cloak, and now we have weaker shields and spamming shieldbreakers to look out for. Stop acting like the only victim...

Shields were nerfed with 10% while blocking were nerfed to the ground. Or you forget that damage is reduced with 50% the same amount that the shields were nerfed. Basically the ratio is almost the same as pre 2.1. You cast a shiled and you still can mitigate 2 WB. (Shields are still not critable)

Wollust

This game is gonna get destroyed by the constant nerf. At some point we'll be running around and everyone is going to be spamming wrecking blow, because their classskills are garbage. Look at the DK, that's only the beginning with this constant nerf-culture we're facing here. At some point every class is gonna arrive at where the DK is now, because people will always cry about some classskill being too strong, and ZoS and its incompetent combat and PVP team (yes you guys are bad and have no idea anymore what's good for the game. You don't deserve to earn money for what you're producing here at this point) will hear those for sure.

What we need are buffs, and not minor ones in a few cases .

Alexandrious

jnorris91ub17_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

jnorris91ub17_ESO wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Even if they remove the invisibility from dark cloak it will be still useful cause it removes up to 5 DoTs.

It would still be useful in very, very limited situations, but pretty much ANY other skill would be more useful.

Also, the Nightblade class as a whole would be weak as hell because they rely so heavily on cloak. No other class relies as heavily on one skill as Nightblade does on cloak.

There were those times when Templars relied on Blazing Shield, DKs on Reflective Scales, Sorcs on Bolt Escape... to name some. Guess what, they all got nerfed.

Nightblade doesn't have another defensive class skill to fall back on.

Sure they do, its called loldodgeroll. And its a pain in the ass that certain high CP nightblades who mitigates alot of dmg, can dodge roll constantly and spam cloak, is incredibly difficult even in IC to kill, dot him? Nope. Throw aoes around? Nope he will just roll away fast and not get hit, predict where hes gonna be at to throw your aoes? Nope, he will likely be long gone anyway. Constantly hitting him out of cloak? Nope, he can spam back into it being almost invulnerable. 5

The only thing I as a DK can do to throw a Nightblade off, and for some reason it actually works and been able to catch and kill many 500 CP+ night blades, is using Fossilize on them. It just seems to screw them over most of the time.

The slight nerf is needed.

Emma_Overload

OdinForge wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Devotion wrote: »

point is:

we dont have seal heals like a templar
we are not as tanky as a DK
we are not as mobile/tanky/bursty as a sorc

if they nerf cloak we need something new/buffed considering all of the current counters to cloak. either that or remove the counters.

Sorcs are NOT "mobile/tanky" anymore, allthough we can still be bursty. Playing IC with HALF strength Wards and uselessly gimped Balls of Lightning is a miserable experience, especially when NBs can just dart in and out and not even take any damage!

Don't mean to cause offense here but I've seen you in PvP, you probably aren't in a position to be casting judgement on any class from a PvP perspective (even your own class). It doesn't seem like you have the greatest grasp on anything in PvP, it's hard to sit back and watch you say some of these things.

I've seen you many times in PvP, you walk around hard-cast spamming frags (often times in the face of someone actively bashing you). Your shields go down too easy, even against low damage specced players. As a magblade with very high damage, I've mostly given up on "properly setup" Sorcs. It doesn't surprise me to see you struggling with any NB, but there is some misinformation coming from your experience.

I say this with good intentions, although you probably won't care. I'm not saying "L2P", but there is growth for your PvP experience. You probably won't get it blindly raging about NB on the forums.

It's true that I don't have much PvP experience, bit I don't think I'm blindly raging. I come at PvP from the perspective of a PvE player who is forced to deal with gankers on a daily basis since the release of IC. I don't think it's a coincidence that most of these guys are NBs, because Cloak and certain other skills are so ganker-friendly.

What you may not understand is that I don't go into the IC looking for PvP action, I go in there to grind mobs, and my whole build and playstyle is optimized for that. Unfortunately, I have to PvP sometimes whether I want to or not, though from time to time I may go after a ganker who just killed me, looking for revenge.

Another thing I want to say about "hard-cast spamming frags" is that you are right that it is not very effective in PvP, but it is very effective in PvE, much more so than even many FOTM Sorcs will admit on the forums. There are many mechanics in PvE that seem to be BAD training for PvP, in my opinion.

What I've discovered so far is that PvE and PvP require different mindsets to play successfully. I don't think I'm incapable of playing pure PvP, I just don't WANT to. Doing what these PvP guys do would slow my grind way down, and ESO is all about grinding these days.

BTW, I've given up on Ward spamming for now. I respecced to a Stamina Crit Surge build, so I "spin to win" versus mobs and switch bars to Wrecking Blow for gankers and single targets. It doesn't help much in PvP, but I can grind even faster now to make up for the lost time spent running back from a respawn at base.

ZOS_Alex

Hi, everyone.

We understand that people are going to disagree from time to time, but please remember to keep your comments respectful at all times on our forums, even when you disagree with others. Insults or other disruptive behavior do not help further discussion and can move a thread off topic quickly. We encourage sharing opinions, but we ask that they are constructively stated when doing so, as this will help keep the discussion on track.

Thank you!

DannyLV702

Bashev wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

jnorris91ub17_ESO wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Even if they remove the invisibility from dark cloak it will be still useful cause it removes up to 5 DoTs.

It would still be useful in very, very limited situations, but pretty much ANY other skill would be more useful.

Also, the Nightblade class as a whole would be weak as hell because they rely so heavily on cloak. No other class relies as heavily on one skill as Nightblade does on cloak.

DKs relied on GDB and block. Guess what ZOS dont care. When ppl complain ZOS nerf. And BTW if you check the posts since release I am pretty sure that all the other classes combined together didn call for nerfs as much NBs did.

Sorcerers rely on our shields as much as you rely on cloak, and now we have weaker shields and spamming shieldbreakers to look out for. Stop acting like the only victim...

Shields were nerfed with 10% while blocking were nerfed to the ground. Or you forget that damage is reduced with 50% the same amount that the shields were nerfed. Basically the ratio is almost the same as pre 2.1. You cast a shiled and you still can mitigate 2 WB. (Shields are still not critable)

I don't think you play sorcerer. My shield mitigates maybe half a WB, and once im one the ground, there's usually no getting back up

Nemeliom

Alexandrious wrote: »

Sure they do, its called loldodgeroll. And its a pain in the ass that certain high CP nightblades who mitigates alot of dmg, can dodge roll constantly and spam cloak, is incredibly difficult even in IC to kill, dot him? Nope. Throw aoes around? Nope he will just roll away fast and not get hit, predict where hes gonna be at to throw your aoes? Nope, he will likely be long gone anyway. Constantly hitting him out of cloak? Nope, he can spam back into it being almost invulnerable. 5

The only thing I as a DK can do to throw a Nightblade off, and for some reason it actually works and been able to catch and kill many 500 CP+ night blades, is using Fossilize on them. It just seems to screw them over most of the time.

The slight nerf is needed.

"loldodgeroll " as you call it, is for a stamina NB, and it has already been nerfed. Spaming cloak is for a magika NB. You can't do both, and if you can then you have a crappie build that only works for surviving and not killing, or you are one of those super 1000+ CP which is not a majority.

kadar

...And players have realized that through the use of positioning, line of sight, situational awareness, and movement speed buffs, they can effectively remain cloaked and avoid damage indefinitely which is the real problem.

Also I have heard players in TS bragging about how good cloak spam with maneuvers is.

Also you are still plugging magelight as a counter? Now you can really smell the BS.

In reality not even MNBs that are built for spamming can "avoid damage indefinitely." Even when used perfectly. Maybe against one player who has refused to slot or learn how to counter...

I've even watched MNBs get accidentally countered. It's hilarious. Guy gets attacked and realizes his Tornado he was already spamming turned him into The Van Helsing of MNBs. XD

Many players have had a large amount of success running RML. Just because you don't think it will fit with your build doesn't make the ability a bad counter. Please continue calling other peoples arguments "BS" on the forums, it's super constructive and valid...

KenaPKK

^ RML is a great counter.. It reveals cloaked units nearby, and it halves all damage incoming from stealthed enemies for you AND nearby allies.

That's half damage from any Clouding Swarmers too. It's quite strong.

Cody

well tonight half of my cloaks were broken by gap closers, lag, and other factors. Its far from OP

Cody

Do I need to give the NB speech again? Idc if this is the 1st night for me in 4 months or not, I will do it:)

Forestd16b14_ESO

/drinks

Yet another "cloak isn't OP thread". Maybe cloak wouldn't be so bad if it's "counters" weren't total garbage. Sure you can go to any guild trader and buy a detect potion but thing is the best one only last for 16 seconds and is only usable at veteran rank 15. That doesn't help out level 10s or 32s or 46s or VR1s and so on.

And what nerf you talking about? You mean the no magicka regen while under it's effect? Yea alot of good that's gonna do just look at blocking and 0 stamina regen players still able to perma block for 5 minutes.

Domander

Cody wrote: »

Do I need to give the NB speech again? Idc if this is the 1st night for me in 4 months or not, I will do it:)

It is probably needed.

jelliedsoup

Nbs need some form of means to allow them to enter stealth or they have noting which is different from the other classes.

Most nbs probably chose this class due to that. I know I did.

I use night silence to give me speed in stealth, and lose other benefits I could get from a 5 piece a set.

jhharvest

The only thing I have to say on this topic is that I run Radiant Magelight and it sucks.I've been running behind people, jabbing them with magelight on and they still disappear. If I catch them it's usually only because they decide to stick around to see if they could get a kill after all. Half the time they do, despite my magelight.

Made a topic about flare, the worst skill in the game. I'm not saying nerf cloak but it'd be great if these 'counters' actually worked.

revonine

jhharvest wrote: »

The only thing I have to say on this topic is that I run Radiant Magelight and it sucks.I've been running behind people, jabbing them with magelight on and they still disappear. If I catch them it's usually only because they decide to stick around to see if they could get a kill after all. Half the time they do, despite my magelight.

Made a topic about flare, the worst skill in the game. I'm not saying nerf cloak but it'd be great if these 'counters' actually worked.

I'd agree that flare needs a really big buff. It's useless and I can dodge it easily. It's like they designed it to be used on static targets or something. Remove the travel time on the projectile for starters.

Francis_Toliver

KenaPKK wrote: »

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 wrote: »

jnorris91ub17_ESO wrote: »

It's called feedback.

You two are exactly the kind of people who ZoS should be ignoring for this kind of decision.

I don't think its considered feedback if the change hasn't actually happened lol

That's illogical... It's feedback on whether the change should be made...which is how balancing works.

Actually that's illogical as well. Its not feedback on whether the change should be made. The change hasn't even been suggested by Zos. Its a statement based on the fear that the change might be made. Really just preemptive paranoia.

Mind you this is just feedback on your conversation about feedback.

And you could say that what you are saying is feedback on the commented feedback on the experience of people playing against Nightblades who use cloak (though I haven't personally seen any of this feedback, still it must be out there somewhere).

So my feedback, on your feedback, about their feedback may be feedback that should be taken with a grain of salt.

So what is you feedback on my feedback about your feedback about their feedback...any feedback?

Oh and just for the sake of argument, I agree that cloak ought not to be nerfed. If it was going to be nerfed...was it going to be nerfed? Donno, but if it was, it ought not to be.

Instead, people should learn how to fight folks with cloak. Chains and Magelights and AOE oh my!

So, oh, that's my additional feedback....what were we talking about?