V16 mats still rare as rocking horse poop in Orsinium compared to V14 mats.

Rex-Umbra

I thought I read Cyrodiil will have v15-16 nodes next update, true false?

Xendyn

Iluvrien wrote: »

(Original quote in context is still present in this thread, in case anyone want to check that I haven't edited or intentionally misquoted).

Emphasis mine. I have to wonder, when did this change?

That's an easy answer.
When the Crown store and the marketing bean-counters in monkey suits took over.
I don't blame our Devs so much for this. They are the creative and technical aspects of the game and they have to take orders from above. So certain aspects of the game are going to be designed to herd us toward the store per those orders and to make as much $$ as possible for short term profit.

I'm waiting to see what's in these Orsinium Supply packages shown in datamining here.

elderscrolls.net/2015/10/06/14851-tes-online-budushhee-magazina-tovarov-za-krony-patch-2-2-0/

If those turn out to be mats, my last wish in this game will be to get those suits out in Cyro and give them a good beating.

angelyn

Xiana wrote: »

pelennor_fields wrote: »

Can we geta zenimax comment here? Prove the people who say you won't touch a crafting thread wrong.

This whole topic is still subject of testing on PTS. They are collecting feedback about this here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/222451/official-feedback-thread-for-crafting-node-scaling

Don't expect any official comments regarding the test version outside the PTS forum.

The only official response on the PTS thread that I know of, is one that was posted in german forums, and a kind poster(ie not ZOS) translated it and posted it for us. The ZOS comment didn't clarify anything, but only caused further confusion and questions. A clarification was asked for, but so far , none was provided. I check both threads regularly. I wouldn't mind which thread got a response that our feedback is being listened to. Just be happy to hear that it is being listened to.

I created this thread to raise awareness in the wider community (not just those on PTS), since i believed it was such an integral part of the game, that a wider section of the community would benefit from seeing incoming changes and voice feedback.Of course if we do get an official response , I'll be sure to include it here, so that the members of the wider community who have voiced their concerns, can know that their feedback is being listened to.

pelennor_fields

MSchroeder wrote: »

Rest assured we’ve heard the complaints! We have a change coming in for 2.2.2 (that is, next PTS) that will do the following:

• Increase the number of top-tier material nodes you see in battle-leveled areas.
• Change Writs to use the penultimate materials as well as the ultimate materials.

When this reaches PTS, we’d like you all to take a fresh look at the nodes and writs, and give us your feedback again.

ZOS post to this thread -http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2342808#Comment_2342808

Iluvrien

pelennor_fields wrote: »

MSchroeder wrote: »

Rest assured we’ve heard the complaints! We have a change coming in for 2.2.2 (that is, next PTS) that will do the following:

• Increase the number of top-tier material nodes you see in battle-leveled areas.
• Change Writs to use the penultimate materials as well as the ultimate materials.

When this reaches PTS, we’d like you all to take a fresh look at the nodes and writs, and give us your feedback again.

ZOS post to this thread -http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2342808#Comment_2342808

If they actually make the change then that will be a significant step forward. Changes to both nodes and writs? Nice.

As it seems that the EU character copy will happen soon, I look forward to seeing what the changes look like myself.

GTech_1

Xendyn wrote: »

I'm waiting to see what's in these Orsinium Supply packages shown in datamining here.

elderscrolls.net/2015/10/06/14851-tes-online-budushhee-magazina-tovarov-za-krony-patch-2-2-0/

If those turn out to be mats, my last wish in this game will be to get those suits out in Cyro and give them a good beating.

I believe I saw these on the PTS.
If I remember correctly, those supply packages contain crown potions, crown food, crown repair kits, crown soul gems, and xp scrolls.
I believe the small package has 1 of each, the large package has 5 of each.
I'll confirm this as soon as I finish downloading the PTS patch.

angelyn

Iluvrien wrote: »

pelennor_fields wrote: »

MSchroeder wrote: »

Rest assured we’ve heard the complaints! We have a change coming in for 2.2.2 (that is, next PTS) that will do the following:

• Increase the number of top-tier material nodes you see in battle-leveled areas.
• Change Writs to use the penultimate materials as well as the ultimate materials.

When this reaches PTS, we’d like you all to take a fresh look at the nodes and writs, and give us your feedback again.

ZOS post to this thread -http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2342808#Comment_2342808

If they actually make the change then that will be a significant step forward. Changes to both nodes and writs? Nice.

As it seems that the EU character copy will happen soon, I look forward to seeing what the changes look like myself.

Agree, definitely a step in the right direction. Still think all nodes in Orsinium should drop highest materials since we can farm void stuff in 3 other zones. ( They could convert the void nodes into V15/V16 nodes).

The thing is, I think ZOS have shot themselves in the foot by making mats so rare in IC. If they want to address all this community feedback about crafting turning into grinding, they would probably need to increase drops in IC.

A little bit of work/time consuming /monotonous activities is bearable (already in the form of latest motifs to appear in cash store/the fact that you need 10× as many mats for V16), knowing that your goal of creating armour is likely to happen in a month. However, as soon as all of crafting is turned into that (multiple layers of time consuming/monotonous/activities), and the goal isn't achievable in under a year it turns to "grind".

Isn't having the latest motifs so hard to obtain, and having V16 take 10× more items considered as enough "work" for crafters to be able to get armour? Why do they have to add additional layers of work to crafting so that the entire experience becomes an overall grind?

Just boggles the mind. All these extra layers of RNG/time consuming frustration doesn't make me feel rewarded when I'm finally able to craft something...this psychology may work on some people..but, from the feedback in these threads, it also doesn't work on the majority of crafters either.

Also ZOS- If V15/V16 raw materials appear in crown store, I'll consider cancelling sub and uninstalling.

Marrtha

angelyn wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

pelennor_fields wrote: »

MSchroeder wrote: »

Rest assured we’ve heard the complaints! We have a change coming in for 2.2.2 (that is, next PTS) that will do the following:

• Increase the number of top-tier material nodes you see in battle-leveled areas.
• Change Writs to use the penultimate materials as well as the ultimate materials.

When this reaches PTS, we’d like you all to take a fresh look at the nodes and writs, and give us your feedback again.

ZOS post to this thread -http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2342808#Comment_2342808

If they actually make the change then that will be a significant step forward. Changes to both nodes and writs? Nice.

As it seems that the EU character copy will happen soon, I look forward to seeing what the changes look like myself.

Agree, definitely a step in the right direction. Still think all nodes in Orsinium should drop highest materials since we can farm void stuff in 3 other zones. ( They could convert the void nodes into V15/V16 nodes).

The thing is, I think ZOS have shot themselves in the foot by making mats so rare in IC. If they want to address all this community feedback about crafting turning into grinding, they would probably need to increase drops in IC.

A little bit of work/time consuming /monotonous activities is bearable (already in the form of latest motifs to appear in cash store/the fact that you need 10× as many mats for V16), knowing that your goal of creating armour is likely to happen in a month. However, as soon as all of crafting is turned into that (multiple layers of time consuming/monotonous/activities), and the goal isn't achievable in under a year it turns to "grind".

Isn't having the latest motifs so hard to obtain, and having V16 take 10× more items considered as enough "work" for crafters to be able to get armour? Why do they have to add additional layers of work to crafting so that the entire experience becomes an overall grind?

Just boggles the mind. All these extra layers of RNG/time consuming frustration doesn't make me feel rewarded when I'm finally able to craft something...this psychology may work on some people..but, from the feedback in these threads, it also doesn't work on the majority of crafters either.

Also ZOS- If V15/V16 raw materials appear in crown store, I'll consider cancelling sub and uninstalling.

Post this into the official PTS thread too! If you haven't already..

Visemere

i agree passives should be needed, this stops farm bots and sellers, and rewards those who skill into the relevant line.

what i dont want is, to grind nodes for 400 hours and still not be able to craft a set of freaking armor for my level, that seems count intuative, it should be a guaranteed drop, why else would you mine a "specific" node and get something else? makes no sense.

PBpsy

Visemere wrote: »

i agree passives should be needed, this stops farm bots and sellers, and rewards those who skill into the relevant line.

what i dont want is, to grind nodes for 400 hours and still not be able to craft a set of freaking armor for my level, that seems count intuative, it should be a guaranteed drop, why else would you mine a "specific" node and get something else? makes no sense.

You do not get something else. The nodes can spawn either as V12 or V15 nodes with the proportion heavily weighted towards the V12 nodes. You will always get V15 mats from the V15 nodes though.

Nénlindë

Zenimax? ... echo....echo....echo..

Nénlindë

SeptimusDova

No answer

Evergnar

Callous2208 wrote: »

Wait, wait, wait. Isn't it a good thing to need the passives to get the new v16 mats? Won't that prevent everyone from running around picking up mats they can't craft with to sell or horde and trade? Doesn't doing it this way also eliminate people running around, collecting the mats and sending them to alts for crafting? Personally, I will be nabbing all the wood, ore, cloth, and runes I can on my main and crafting up a storm.

What takes longer: Leveling a V16 character or leveling a couple crafting skill lines?

Iluvrien wrote: »

Sadly, I suspect that ZOS won't touch this thread for the same reason they aren't touching the other "why did you add contrived grinds to crafting" threads:

1) If they deny it, they are proven to be lying by anyone who can do basic mathematics. They look bad.
2) If they don't deny it, it is obvious that they are then favouring crown store sales over actual player enjoyment. They look bad.

The only real way out of this is "Wow! We didn't see how the current spawn tables would end up affecting writs! We'd better change that!"... they look mildly daft for not having a full grasp, but it is a complex system and they might be able to explain it away if they change the VR16 material spawn rates. Their problem goes away, they are seen to be responsive to the needs of the players (rather than their faceless accounting exec) and the crafters heave a sigh of relief until the next issue appears over the horizon...

... I just wish I had any hope left that they would try it.

It's very sad to watch the game go down this road. Seen it before but was hoping beyond hope it was a "bug"

SeptimusDova

this like the in game pop up adds that are coming back. A real deal breaker

angelyn

Don't forget that they have heard out feedback and responded in the PTS thread, which @pelennor_fields kindly copied in here for us:

pelennor_fields wrote: »

MSchroeder wrote: »

Rest assured we’ve heard the complaints! We have a change coming in for 2.2.2 (that is, next PTS) that will do the following:

• Increase the number of top-tier material nodes you see in battle-leveled areas.
• Change Writs to use the penultimate materials as well as the ultimate materials.

When this reaches PTS, we’d like you all to take a fresh look at the nodes and writs, and give us your feedback again.

ZOS post to this thread -http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2342808#Comment_2342808

Step in the right direction

angelyn

Another revelation, proving that ZOS are designing the game around maximising cash shop sales.

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

So im just going through dev tracker wondering if zenimax is actually talking to us n i come across this

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

Hallo,

Lorbeeren lassen sich sich nicht verkaufen, handeln oder verschicken, weil wir uns die Option offen halten wollen, diese später auch im Kronen-Shop zu verkaufen. Um den Tausch von echtem Geld in Gold zu vermeiden, ist jeder Gegenstand im Kronen-Shop an das Konto gebunden.

Bei den bisherigen Stilen wurde dies Problem so gelöst, dass man man im Spiel mehrere (handelbare) Splitter, Scherben oder Sonstiges sammeln musste, die sich dann zu einer (nicht-handelbarem) Handwerkszutat zusammen fügen ließen.
Bei den Lorbeeren für den Söldner-Stil haben wir uns entschieden, eben diese Materialjagd nicht einzubauen, sondern die Handwerkszutat direkt zu vergeben. Sobald ihr ein Kapitel des Söldnerstil kennt, habt ihr bereits eine gute Chance, Lorbeeren zu finden - sie steigt nicht linear auf die 14 Kapitel verteilt an.
Auch die Kapitel selbst sind einfach zu bekommen als z.B. diejenigen für Glasit.

Which translates too:



Hello there,

Laurels can not sell, trade, or send, because we want to keep open the option to sell them later on Crown Store. In order to avoid the exchange of real money into gold, every object in the Crown Store is linked to the account.

In previous styles, this problem has been solved so that you had to collect more (tradable) splinters, shards or anything else in the game, which then could be put together to a (non-tradable) Craft ingredient.
The credit for the mercenary-style we have chosen, these same material hunting not installed, but to forgive the craft ingredient directly. Once you learn one chapter of mercenary style, you already have a good chance of finding laurels - it does not increase linearly to 14 chapters distributed to.
The chapters themselves are easy to get as example those for Glasit.


I could be wrong but you guys tell me what you think...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/225386/zenimax-admits-that-new-crafting-material-is-bound-because-they-want-it-in-the-crown-store#latest

newtinmpls

As easy as Glass?

Since I've gotten NO drops for glass, that doesn't seem "easy" to me.

Ourorboros

newtinmpls wrote: »

As easy as Glass?

Since I've gotten NO drops for glass, that doesn't seem "easy" to me.

I think something got lost in the translation. Pretty sure she meant the Mercenary chapters will be much easier to get compared with Glass. Thus, it should be relatively easy to increase laurel drops by finding more chapters.

Oh, well, I haven't done many dungeons. Now I have a crafting motive to do them.

LegacyDM

Probably will get flamed for this but I don't understand the point of this thread. Why is it a big deal that it takes a long time to get vr 16 mats? If you farm IC mobs and deconstruct while saving up TV stones it doesn't seem unreasonable? I mean, IC has only been out for a over a month and people expect to have a full set of gold vr 16 gear? Do we really want the system made easier so that everyone and their grandmother has gold vr 16? Now, it makes crafters pick their Armor choices carefully and gives meaning back to the rarity of crafting. I actually agree with Zos approach in trying to make vr 16 gear rare and hard to get.

However, I also agree with the premise that if the mats become available on crown store that would be a big problem.

OrphanHelgen

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Probably will get flamed for this but I don't understand the point of this thread. Why is it a big deal that it takes a long time to get vr 16 mats? If you farm IC mobs and deconstruct while saving up TV stones it doesn't seem unreasonable? I mean, IC has only been out for a over a month and people expect to have a full set of gold vr 16 gear? Do we really want the system made easier so that everyone and their grandmother has gold vr 16? Now, it makes crafters pick their Armor choices carefully and gives meaning back to the rarity of crafting. I actually agree with Zos approach in trying to make vr 16 gear rare and hard to get.

However, I also agree with the premise that if the mats become available on crown store that would be a big problem.

They gonna use the mats for writs as well.
Im one of the players with all the time in the world.
I still have not geared up all my characters, and the gap between vr15 gear with rekuta enchants and a vr16 gear with kuta enchants, are actually more noticable then you would think.

Ourorboros

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Probably will get flamed for this but I don't understand the point of this thread. Why is it a big deal that it takes a long time to get vr 16 mats? If you farm IC mobs and deconstruct while saving up TV stones it doesn't seem unreasonable? I mean, IC has only been out for a over a month and people expect to have a full set of gold vr 16 gear? Do we really want the system made easier so that everyone and their grandmother has gold vr 16? Now, it makes crafters pick their Armor choices carefully and gives meaning back to the rarity of crafting. I actually agree with Zos approach in trying to make vr 16 gear rare and hard to get.

However, I also agree with the premise that if the mats become available on crown store that would be a big problem.

The bolded sentence is really the crux of it. Only players with a lot of time to invest will be able to get the mats in a relatively short time. It will take up to a year for casual players to accrue enough mats for v16 armor. This gives them a big incentive to spend in the crown store if the mats are there. ZOS is playing Russian roulette with the player base, and there may be more than one bullet in the gun. Can they survive financially without driving off loyal players?

pelennor_fields

The problem.. To rst

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Probably will get flamed for this but I don't understand the point of this thread. Why is it a big deal that it takes a long time to get vr 16 mats? If you farm IC mobs and deconstruct while saving up TV stones it doesn't seem unreasonable? I mean, IC has only been out for a over a month and people expect to have a full set of gold vr 16 gear? Do we really want the system made easier so that everyone and their grandmother has gold vr 16? Now, it makes crafters pick their Armor choices carefully and gives meaning back to the rarity of crafting. I actually agree with Zos approach in trying to make vr 16 gear rare and hard to get.

However, I also agree with the premise that if the mats become available on crown store that would be a big problem.

Yes - mats on the crown store would be a major problem. Also to restate what I have said before in the same thread the greatest threat in the face of crafters is the availability of the mats to play with different sets and styles and especially to fulfill writs. If the availability stays the same through November and writs are tied to the new materials it will become basically impossible to do writs. This - in addition to the fact that rewards are already so low.. i.e. glass scraps. I have done all my contracts for the last 5 days and have not gotten a single scrap. Imagine if I was doing one contract a month!

Further - i am glad for V16 armor to be slightly more difficult to get - but at 4-6 hours a day (at least) I am definitely not a casual player -and I still don't have V16 legendary armor

Drop rates and material availability need to change. The game content can occupy the players - not endless grinding and farming every night. I want to go enjoy dungeons, trials, and Cyrodiil pvp.. Instead i am farming IC every night for a month. Fix the availabilty of nodes, drops, and decons ZOS!!