V16 mats still rare as rocking horse poop in Orsinium compared to V14 mats.

Fat_Cat45

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

No one will be able to do daily max level writs. Would would need thousands of refined mats just for one day.

Not true at all. The writs are at V15, meaning each items only uses 10-15 materials each. As well as the fact that the amount of items needed for writs have been halved (3 per clothing, 3 to 5 for blacksmith). You will actually use LESS tier 10 materials to do writs than you used for writs on live client with tier 9.

deadlock007 wrote: »

WTF? I didn't take the time to look at the writs when I was on the PTS. Hopefully they increase the rewards for max writs if they are going to require the new mats.

The survey nodes are 5 of the new tier 10, 2 of tier 9, and 1 of tier 8.

redspecter23 wrote: »

Writs with V15 mats that award the same rewards we already get with the void writs? Seriously, who on staff thought this was a good idea? Who would spend 30k+ in mats for maybe a shot at 15k in rewards (glass fragment + temp alloy + survey). There is 0% chance you'll make your investment back and a small chance to get half back. Am I missing something? How did this get past anyone in alpha testing? It shouldn't have gotten past the thought process much less actually been coded to start with.

See above

iTzStevey

They need to up the amoint you get from deconstructing imo. 150 mats for 1 item is fine aslong as you dont have to deconstruct 150 items to make ONE piece of gear. I think you should get 10 items per deconsruct.

Personofsecrets

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Thanks for this thread, OP. I think what ZOS has done to crafting in IC and Orsinium is one of the worst decisions ZOS has made in a string of poor decisions.

Bottom line for me (and probably for most players) is that I just want to relax, play the game and have fun. I want to run dungeons, do my share of PvE and PvP, etc. I don't want to feel that I'm always behind trying to catch up. And I don't want to feel that as soon as I do get to a competitive place with a character, ZOS comes along and pulls the rug out from under me again. Give me a chance to enjoy what I've accomplished for awhile.

Sheesh!!!! There have been WAY too many fundamental changes to this game, WAY TOO FAST, for my comfort and enjoyment level. Slamming crafters and the game's economy this way is just beyond frustrating.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Just want to say that the term "progression" means to advance, to move forward, to increase, to build on that which has already been achieved. When you take away or reduce player advancement in order to accommodate changes to your game design, you are actually making it difficult, if not impossible for players to truly progress. What you're giving players is a perpetual game of catch up instead of genuine progression.

Every step forward is only allowed once there is a step back.

angelyn

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

No problem at all @angelyn, though I do want to point out that the post that you quoted has an error from me, and I don't want to deceive or mislead anyone. I had started that post the night before saved it as a draft and then came back to finish it the next night. That's why it says something about in 3 hours these were my results... which is true for the first evening, but the second evening I was only out there for a little more than 2 hours.
.

No problem

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

The whole set up of the VR15-VR16 grind for mats makes me worry about what it is they want to do to 'alleviate' our grind issues.

F2P games typically do this so that they can introduce specific items to their Microtransaction Store that will drive up sales. Star Trek Onlines Crafting System with their R&D Boxes in the C-Store for example. There is a lot of things that make their Crafting System different ESOs. But the demand for mats is so high in that game that people turn to their C-Store for the boxes to alleviate the need for their RNG style Crafting System. Its quite possible that ZOS wants to make these mats hard to obtain so that when they think we are as frustrated as they want us. They can introduce their own Crafting Mats to the Store. Of course there will be a Firestorm on the Forums. But what everyone wont see is the hordes of players spending their Crowns on these Mats.

I hope Im wrong. But from what it sounds like theyre going in that direction. With the excuse that 'its for convenience'.

^^ THIS. so much this. They've already added crating mats to the store in the form of malachite(gold scale incoming). And of course they release a highly desirable motif at they same time they introduce a massive grind into obtaining that motif. And the style materials that also got a massive grind- in the crown store.. Also:

IC PVP DLC
Intoduce new motif which requires non PVP grind in order to obtain.

Orsinium PVE DLC
introduce new motif which requires non PVE grind in order to obtain.

It's almost as if they want people not to want try and get the motif in game?

angelyn

/shameless bump

UltimaJoe777

You're rocking horse poop?

Ew.

angelyn

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

You're rocking horse poop?

Ew.

Hehehe that's quite clever

Lightninvash

MikeB wrote: »

I've been playing IC since release and the MOST I can craft in V16 is two pieces. If this doesnt increase drastically with the release of Orsinium it will be ridiculous. You will run off those on the fence waiting, hoping they will be able to craft V16 when Orsinium hits. This has me very discouraged, I agree good gear should be hard to get but don't we already have that with the RNG in dungeons? Crafting gear to do the dungeons should not take just as long, if not longer, to make than getting gear from said dungeon.

yes it should or even longer makes the time sink more making players have to spend more time buying more expansions to make zos more money. more is better right?

Callous2208

Someone made mention that crafted sets were just supposed to be place holders until you grinded out dungeon gear. Although I know that's true on some items, I don't think that pans out across the board, and I'm glad! In a perfect world crafted and dropped gear would always be on par with each other, that way people had the option to take whichever route they preferred. I've played the games where you had to grind and pray to rngesus for every piece you wanted, I didn't much care for it.

driosketch

With regards to the equipment writs complaints, other than the recent addition of the glass motif, when have these ever been worth the mats spent to complete?

angelyn

Lightninvash wrote: »

MikeB wrote: »

I've been playing IC since release and the MOST I can craft in V16 is two pieces. If this doesnt increase drastically with the release of Orsinium it will be ridiculous. You will run off those on the fence waiting, hoping they will be able to craft V16 when Orsinium hits. This has me very discouraged, I agree good gear should be hard to get but don't we already have that with the RNG in dungeons? Crafting gear to do the dungeons should not take just as long, if not longer, to make than getting gear from said dungeon.

yes it should or even longer makes the time sink more making players have to spend more time buying more expansions to make zos more money. more is better right?

You got an insightful from me @Lightninvash

Callous2208 wrote: »

Someone made mention that crafted sets were just supposed to be place holders until you grinded out dungeon gear. Although I know that's true on some items, I don't think that pans out across the board, and I'm glad! In a perfect world crafted and dropped gear would always be on par with each other, that way people had the option to take whichever route they preferred. I've played the games where you had to grind and pray to rngesus for every piece you wanted, I didn't much care for it.

Except that grinding and RNG are slowly replacing the original ESO crafting system, so it will probably end up that way if they don't slow down.

driosketch wrote: »

With regards to the equipment writs complaints, other than the recent addition of the glass motif, when have these ever been worth the mats spent to complete?

Yes, I never understand why as a master crafter I'm getting "rewards" of gear with inspiration on it oh and 600g. The cost of the materials far outweighs the "reward". The glass fragments were worth a bit initially but the price is steadily dropping since they put it in the crown store. Since the V15 /16 materials are super scarce, writs requiring new mats are just a waste of 30k gold,as clearly demonstrated below:

Hagebutte wrote: »

So I went to Wrothgar again today, gathering V15/16 mats just to complete one writ and see whether the rewards are as useless as they are on live. All in all it took me about 3-4 hours of gathering mats. Woodworking writ cannot be completed due to the bristlecone thing that is required and after all the time I spent gathering mats I was still missing 3 refined ore to complete the blacksmith writ (since I'm on a template character I can't just use what I already have). However I was able to complete the clothier writ and if they don't do anything about droprates/number of new nodes I will never ever do one of those writs again...

Here is what I got



So I used about 50 ancestor silk, will get one back from deconning that white item. There's the dreugh wax and let's just forget about the sardonyx.

So at current prices (PC/EU) 50 silk are worth roughly 30-35k gold, dreugh wax is about 2-3k gold. Doing those writs seems like one of the biggest wastes of money available in game. Sure, I could have gotten a survey and gotten some mats back but I wouldn't rely on that. I've been doing writs for a very long time on multiple characters now and the chances of getting surveys are just too low to make it worthwhile. Glass motif fragments are also only worth about 10k anymore so even if one of those had been in there, it would still have been a waste of money.

As a level 50 crafter I don't need the inspiration and 600 gold quest reward is not even close to anything that would feel rewarding.

And we've still not had a response from ZOS(neither in PTS thread nor here) about the below confusion. ZOS didn't even seem to be aware that the writs required V15/V16 mats?(in some cases V17/V18 mats!!known bug). The reason given for only getting a chance to encounter a V15/V16 node ( even with all passives), is that the "dailies require V14 mats." Hence why you get more V14 nodes than V16 (even with passives).

Hagebutte wrote: »

I'll quote myself from the thread @angelyn mentioned concerning topic:

Hagebutte wrote: »

In the german forums @ZOS_KaiSchober answered questions about the node scaling/number :

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

JCHunsi wrote: »

Ist es eigentlich beasichtigt das man, bei ausgelevelten Handwerksfähigkeiten, auch die V10 - V14 Materialien findetet oder sollte man nur die neuen Materialen finden?
Konnte dies in den Patchnotes dies bezüglich nichts genaueres finden!
Habe bis jetzt nämlich nur das Glück gehabt die die V14 Materialien zu finden bis auf 2 Rohe Ahnenseidevorkommen.

Ja, es ist Absicht, da die Handwerk9-Materialien noch für die Dailies gebraucht werden, Das Verhältnis dürfte bei ca. 4:1 zu Gunsten der VR10-14 Mats liegen.

Roughly translated, he says that you still find V10-14 mats because they are still needed for dailies. The ratio should supposedly be 4(old):1(new).

I asked which dailies he's referring to, since the writs definitely require the new mats. Moreover the ratio is far from 4:1 in my experience.

I hope Kai responds soon. Somehow it feels like they never tested the system themselves.

BlackEar

I love that the mats are hard to get and you need a lot.
It gives me a sense of worthwhile progression instead of just being able to craft the best gear so easily.

I always found it annoying that you can craft some of the best gear. At least now need to actually work for it. Kudos to the change!

GTech_1

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

The whole set up of the VR15-VR16 grind for mats makes me worry about what it is they want to do to 'alleviate' our grind issues.

F2P games typically do this so that they can introduce specific items to their Microtransaction Store that will drive up sales. Star Trek Onlines Crafting System with their R&D Boxes in the C-Store for example. There is a lot of things that make their Crafting System different ESOs. But the demand for mats is so high in that game that people turn to their C-Store for the boxes to alleviate the need for their RNG style Crafting System. Its quite possible that ZOS wants to make these mats hard to obtain so that when they think we are as frustrated as they want us. They can introduce their own Crafting Mats to the Store. Of course there will be a Firestorm on the Forums. But what everyone wont see is the hordes of players spending their Crowns on these Mats.

I hope Im wrong. But from what it sounds like theyre going in that direction. With the excuse that 'its for convenience'.

Here are a couple of things I'd like to point out:
It's not F2P, it's B2P. They need to stop using my sub dollars to create new ways to further gouge us.

And you say "Of course there will be a Firestorm on the Forums. But what everyone wont see is the hordes of players spending their Crowns on these Mats."

I would simply respond by saying: Folks also won't see all of the current players, and subscribers, simply disappear from the game, due to the forced frustration mechanics either.

I came here from many years playing other games with this forced grind nonsense.
I came here, and stayed here (since early release), because the grind, and treadmill gameplay, were *not* here.
If they are, indeed, trying to get us "as frustrated as they want us", then I, and my guild, will be long gone.

We just want to have fun while playing, and we want to have ample time to play with our friends.
That's not too much to, literally, demand from a game.

Sincerely,
~GTech_1

angelyn

GTech_1 wrote: »

I came here from many years playing other games with this forced grind nonsense.
I came here, and stayed here (since early release), because the grind, and treadmill gameplay, were *not* here.
If they are, indeed, trying to get us "as frustrated as they want us", then I, and my guild, will be long gone.

We just want to have fun while playing, and we want to have ample time to play with our friends.
That's not too much to, literally, demand from a game.

Sincerely,
~GTech_1

Agree

TequilaFire

BlackEar wrote: »

I love that the mats are hard to get and you need a lot.
It gives me a sense of worthwhile progression instead of just being able to craft the best gear so easily.

I always found it annoying that you can craft some of the best gear. At least now need to actually work for it. Kudos to the change!

Yeah but I would like to be able to get my armor done before the release of the next expansion!
And I play every day.

angelyn

TequilaFire wrote: »

BlackEar wrote: »

I love that the mats are hard to get and you need a lot.
It gives me a sense of worthwhile progression instead of just being able to craft the best gear so easily.

I always found it annoying that you can craft some of the best gear. At least now need to actually work for it. Kudos to the change!

Yeah but I would like to be able to get my armor done before the release of the next expansion!
And I play every day.

Same here. Although some people may have thought the original ESO crafting system not to their liking, other players did like it, especially for not being a grind/rng filled chore. And although some people can grind those mats very quickly. The vast majority of us don't have time to spend 4 hours farming and get 3 ore during that time period. ( Yes, this really did happen on PTS).This will hurt players who can't invest days of their time merely farming mats to build armour, let alone partake in the new content. When people ask me what the DLC/ESO is like..i say im too busy grinding mats to be able to partake of and enjoy the content. They won't be buying DLCs/ESO based on that for sure. I think that @Nebthet78 explained this perfectly in one of their posts :

Nebthet78 wrote: »

If you are going to have V15/16 Crafting writs in Orsinium, then all nodes need to be V15/16 for those that have the skill maxed out.

I get you are probably wanting players to deconstruct a lot of the loot drops, but even those are much, much lower than IC and are giving gold instead.

Being able to gain mats for crafting should not be this much of a grind. I understand that you don't want players being able to level up their gear in a week after a patch is released, but it doesn't matter what you do, there will always be players that grind 24/7 until they get all that gear they want and no matter what you do, it will take those players a week or less to do it.

What you are doing with these type of grinding mechanics is hurting your casual players as they are always going to be grinding, grinding, grinding to catch up to the best gear and they are going to get fed up and go to another game where they feel they can upgrade their levels and gear in a much more reasonable manner.

As a game company, you are beginning to make some huge mistakes that are going to start driving away your customers instead of keeping them.

#1: All nodes for a master crafter will all skills to 10 should always have V15/16 mats in Orsinium. No exception.

#2: Enemy NPCs need to drop more weapons/armor and not just gold.

#3: Stop the mat grind!!! It is not working as you had intended. It is actually not enjoyable to have to grind for mats every day to keep up with hardcore players, or to be more useful in Trials and Pledges for those who were unable to do them before.

Because of the mat grind to upgrade my gear, I have grown to HATE Imperial City.

When people ask me about it, I don't recommend it to them because of what it forces players to do, especially PVE players to get mats.
Yes, I could buy those mats in a guild store, but I don't have that much gold, Why?? Because of the astronomical costs of having to constantly repair my armor while in IC while I try to grind for the mats I need. Yes... with one trip to the centre and back, I have to repair my armor ever single time, and it was the same with V16 Legendary armor as well.

By stopping this mat grinding, you allow your players to actually ENJOY the content you have created instead of just doing the same thing over and over again to get what they need to get better armor.

A happy player tends to spend more money doing things they enjoy and leave when it gets to tedious. With IC you have hit tedious and with your current mechanics, it is the same with Orsinium.


#4: All Enchanting and Alchemy Solvent nodes should be scaled to V15/16 in Orsinium to match the maxed out skill level. Ensure that players can also find Hikeijo (Prismatic Essence Rune).

#5: Motifs sold in the crown store really shouldn't be more expensive than the DLC they are released in. 5000 Crowns ($39.99 usd/$53.33 cad) is expensive, even if it comes with a few mats to make armor with right away. Keep them to a reasonable 3000 Crowns and I bet you more players would buy them.. meaning more money for ZOS.

PBpsy

BlackEar wrote: »

I love that the mats are hard to get and you need a lot.
It gives me a sense of worthwhile progression instead of just being able to craft the best gear so easily.

I always found it annoying that you can craft some of the best gear. At least now need to actually work for it. Kudos to the change!

It gives me a sense that I should maybe do something more worthwhile with my freaking time instead of doing virtual chores in a MMO.

OrphanHelgen

Hmm, I just sold all my mats now, because I thought they would drop in price next month.. maybe im wrong then, since they also are used for writs.. what do you think?

Falhael

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Hmm, I just sold all my mats now, because I thought they would drop in price next month.. maybe im wrong then, since they also are used for writs.. what do you think?

I don't see many people doing writs with new mats, tbh. I certainly won't and I'm on of the crazy people that does 3 blacksmith, 3 clothier, 3 woodworking writs daily atm. I might still continue rank 9 writs on my two writ alts that have no researches complete.

angelyn

PBpsy wrote: »

BlackEar wrote: »

I love that the mats are hard to get and you need a lot.
It gives me a sense of worthwhile progression instead of just being able to craft the best gear so easily.

I always found it annoying that you can craft some of the best gear. At least now need to actually work for it. Kudos to the change!

It gives me a sense that I should maybe do something more worthwhile with my freaking time instead of doing virtual chores in a MMO.

Yep..Especially if I'm spending most of my time in game grinding mats instead of partaking in any content.

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Hmm, I just sold all my mats now, because I thought they would drop in price next month.. maybe im wrong then, since they also are used for writs.. what do you think?

Well unless ZOS look at reducing the scarcity before Orsinium goes live, they will still be valuable due to rarity. As for the writs, even ZOS dont seem to know whether they want crafting writs to use V14, V16 or V18 materials in Orcinium (see quotes above). So I'm holding onto what little I have until they've figured out what they are doing. To be fair, you can probably buy some mats with the gold you got from selling them(as they are selling for good money at the moment)...so not all is lost

olsborg

The amount of mats required to craft v16 items is way too high atm.

angelyn

olsborg wrote: »

The amount of mats required to craft v16 items is way too high atm.

Agree. Based on what we've seen so far, it will be hard enough even finding enough mats for V15 stuff (4 hour farm for 3 ore in Orsinium ). In addition , no one will do writs since even the mats for a V15 writ cost 30k..compared to the possible "reward" you may get in a writ of 600g/a temper worth 2k / fragment worth 10k(never mind equipment with inspiration on it. What kind of reward is that for a master crafter.) Perhaps they should look to include bonus rewards in writs based on your crafting skill, or something. .even if they did that..30k mats to do a writ is ridiculous. Until the mats come down in price (which can only be done by reducing the scarcity of them) people won't bother.

winterbornb14_ESO

We already dropped our subs and now only log in maybe once a week due to the IC patch lag/bugs etc.

Did not even think about paying for IC and most defiantly will not be paying for Ors.

This company is getting better and better at chasing away customers.

Nénlindë

The game should be based off of skill. Not whoever can dedicate their lives to grinding the same mobs for months. You'd think they would want to stray away from grinding, people hate it.

pelennor_fields

Writs too! Say it ain't so!
I can deal with the excess requirements in materials to craft V16 gear...but as a jack-of-all-trades crafter who does writs daily i cannot fathom the introduction of writs using the v16 mats at the current levels of availability. It is already a chore to harvest/steal the mats required for the writs as things stand. If the new materials are required and the current availability unchanged it will break the crafting/writ system. It is already frustrating and time consuming to have done in excess of 50 writs to get 12 scraps of the glass motif - and that is just barely worth it at the current materials. I couldn't imagine anyone wanting to participate in the writ system if what is being projected and spoken of above is true. Elite availability for elite gear is fun... Unending and pointlessly unrewarding grinds alienate and punish your most loyal players.

Nebthet78

GTech_1 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

The whole set up of the VR15-VR16 grind for mats makes me worry about what it is they want to do to 'alleviate' our grind issues.

F2P games typically do this so that they can introduce specific items to their Microtransaction Store that will drive up sales. Star Trek Onlines Crafting System with their R&D Boxes in the C-Store for example. There is a lot of things that make their Crafting System different ESOs. But the demand for mats is so high in that game that people turn to their C-Store for the boxes to alleviate the need for their RNG style Crafting System. Its quite possible that ZOS wants to make these mats hard to obtain so that when they think we are as frustrated as they want us. They can introduce their own Crafting Mats to the Store. Of course there will be a Firestorm on the Forums. But what everyone wont see is the hordes of players spending their Crowns on these Mats.

I hope Im wrong. But from what it sounds like theyre going in that direction. With the excuse that 'its for convenience'.

Here are a couple of things I'd like to point out:
It's not F2P, it's B2P. They need to stop using my sub dollars to create new ways to further gouge us.

And you say "Of course there will be a Firestorm on the Forums. But what everyone wont see is the hordes of players spending their Crowns on these Mats."

I would simply respond by saying: Folks also won't see all of the current players, and subscribers, simply disappear from the game, due to the forced frustration mechanics either.

I came here from many years playing other games with this forced grind nonsense.
I came here, and stayed here (since early release), because the grind, and treadmill gameplay, were *not* here.
If they are, indeed, trying to get us "as frustrated as they want us", then I, and my guild, will be long gone.

We just want to have fun while playing, and we want to have ample time to play with our friends.
That's not too much to, literally, demand from a game.

Sincerely,
~GTech_1

I agree with you GTech.

I have been with this game since early Beta and have put up with a lot of stuff and had to change the way I played several times because of changes they have made with updates.

Now that they are making gaining max level mats into a grindfest, I am finding I am being forced to do things I do not enjoy to just be able to upgrade my armor to be less squishy, to keep doing what I was before (especially seeing how they nerfed everything back with IC release so you had to regain where you were previously).

Running around a zone and harvesting nodes is one of the most enjoyable things I do when I just want something relaxing to do in the game. BUT..... it is only enjoyable if I don't have to do it 10 thousand times to get the mats to make one set of armor because the nodes are so rare and a buttload of mats are required to make it.

Once a game mechanic is changed where I am then pretty much forced to grind, grind, grind like that to keep my character progression up, it is time to leave, because that is not real advancement.

I did not buy ESO to end up playing a Korean Grind MMO.

That tells me that the company is looking to keep players occupied with something because they do not have the confidence in their own product to allow it to stand for its' self.

It tells me the company is looking for a way to milk their players out of as much money as they can before players realize something really wrong is happening in the background.

It also tells me the company is paying far, far too much attention to the 1% of hard core MMO player/Guilds like Deltia's who rush through and grind 24/7 any new content that is released to get up to top gear before any one else and then sit back and whine and complain that they are bored and there is nothing to do and then come to the forums to *itch about it, when in reality it is their own fault, not ZOS'.

The result is, ZOS releasing grind mechanics like this, that will unsuccessfully try to slow these type of players down, while creating a much, much larger gap for the Casual Player, which inevitably causes those players to leave because they will not put up with this type of poorly thought out mechanic to upgrade their gear progression for very long. They will just leave.

The hope of many players, not just Casual, for Orsinium when it was released, was for it to be like any other normal zone where all nodes were scaled to V15/16, where players could farm for their mats in a reasonable way without having to deal with the PvP nonsense of IC.
It's fine if ZOS wants to implement a mechanic that requires your skill for crafting to be 10/10 to get the node so crafting means something. BUT, ALL nodes MUST still be V15/16 for those players.

ZOS needs to stop punishing Casual Players for what the minority of Hard Core players choose to do. If you as a player get bored because you decided to rush through the content, then that is your fault and not any one else's and other players should not have to be punished because of that. Unfortunately, though I think this is partially what is happening here. ZOS is trying to implement a way to keep hard core players for getting the mats to upgrade in the first week of release and it is failing hard, because those players still get it within that time frame while more and more Casual Players fall behind.

It's like the CP system argument but for Crafting Nodes, with the exception that being able to craft highest level armor actually makes a HUGE difference to your character's progression.

Like many other players, I do not mind that there is a Crown Store. I do not mind that there are pets and costumes in it. I don't mind if there are XP scrolls and potions. I don't even mind if there are motifs in it. But if selling those items, in addition to players paying for a subscription, and others paying for Crowns or even both is not raking in enough money for you, then maybe you need to look at the price of some of the things you are selling. Motifs should be much cheaper than they are. 5000 Crowns is outrageous. Though some players will pay it, not nearly as many that otherwise would if it was a more reasonable 3000 Crowns for a single motif or 5000 Crowns for both motifs from a particular DLC release.

I already made a post to ZOS about it what the need to change in regards to Node Levels on the PTS forums. @angelyn I see referred to it here so I don't want to repeat much of anything here about it.. don't need to.

I will say however, that if the reason for the super grind for mats is indeed to make it such a pain in the arse to get them so these mats can then be sold in the Crown Store for a convenience, then I will be leaving this game. It will be uninstalled at that point.. (and no you cannot have my stuffs), as it will no longer be the fun game it was PRIOR to the release of Imperial City.

I consider myself a Casual Player, though I do play almost every day for min 6hrs a day (I don't sleep well at night). My signature has my character list on it. I like trying out different characters, BUT I don't like rushing through content. I prefer to take my sweet ole' time and enjoy it. Once I have finished content for one character, I like to go and do it with another, or for a short amount of time go and level up an ALT for a short time and then go back and do it so it is fresh again.

With the mechanics for gaining mats like have been released in IC and right now with Orsinium, it means I have no choice but to spend most of my time, grinding and grinding and grinding and grinding to get the mats I need for not only that 1 character, but to eventually save up for ALL my characters when they reach max level so that they can do things properly when they reach that content, so they are not gimped. I have 8 characters... 1 at max, the 2nd near. 2 more in vet levels now... That is far too much future grinding for max level mats.. and unless ZOS changes the number that are required to make the armor... it is only going to get worse with each DLC.

That is not the ESO I paid for to play.... But it is the ESO this game is becoming, and it is the ESO I am going to forced to leave as that ESO is not fun.

Nénlindë

^ what they said.

Faulgor

BlackEar wrote: »

I love that the mats are hard to get and you need a lot.
It gives me a sense of worthwhile progression instead of just being able to craft the best gear so easily.

I always found it annoying that you can craft some of the best gear. At least now need to actually work for it. Kudos to the change!

Agreed. Itemization in IC is the best thing that ever happened to ESO. There's finally actually a point to doing things, and even white grade trash loot is worthwhile. Previously, you could make endgame gear starting at level ~40 for little to no money, which made anything but grinding exp for vet ranks and cp pointless. Now with something to work for, there are much more viable activities, not the least because gold is more useful to buy the new materials. You can just play the game how you want - PvP, solo PvE, group PvE, questing, gathering, crafting, stealing, etc - and use the gold you make to gear up. If you feel "forced to grind", you just have yourself to blame for making the game miserable for you.

I've been playing in IC sewers and some group dungeons for about 4 weeks after release for no more than 3 hours per day, and if I traded all my materials in for 1 type I could easily make a full V16 set for one character. That is not too rare, it really isn't. Especially Rubedite Ingots are very abundant. And with the lowered cost for materials from Tel Var vendors coming with Orsinium, I could make another full set using my stocked up TV stones. Not to mention that you will get VR15/16 gear in Orsinium to deconstruct without the fear of getting ganked like in IC. The new crafting nodes are just the icing on the cake.
And if that's still too much for you, stick with VR15 gear. That's what it's for.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

PBpsy wrote: »

It gives me a sense that I should maybe do something more worthwhile with my freaking time instead of doing virtual chores in a MMO.

I second this. A few weeks ago, on a whim, I back-tracked into Caldwell's Silver with my main to complete a few quests I'd missed. I had FUN. It was what I bought ESO in the first place to do.

But lately I've felt like I can't do that any more. If I want a chance at a Glass Motif fragment, I have to grind for materials to do Writs. If I want a chance at Xivkyn, I need to grind IC. If I want a chance at Akaviri, I actually have to start PvPing now and I still probably won't have enough AP to outfit my character with it even if I skip all the weapons she doesn't use.

I play Elder Scrolls because I like to quest and explore. I also like to craft. I don't like having to give up the first in order to do the second.

Faulgor

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

I second this. A few weeks ago, on a whim, I back-tracked into Caldwell's Silver with my main to complete a few quests I'd missed. I had FUN. It was what I bought ESO in the first place to do.

Really? I find Cadwells gruesome, at least when I have to do it with alts to get the skill points or access to the good grinding spots because the main quest / coldharbour / cadwells is blocking my path. Questgrinding is the worst.

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

But lately I've felt like I can't do that any more. If I want a chance at a Glass Motif fragment, I have to grind for materials to do Writs.

> Buy the fragments
> Buy the materials

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

If I want a chance at Xivkyn, I need to grind IC.

> Buy Xivkyn pages

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

If I want a chance at Akaviri, I actually have to start PvPing now and I still probably won't have enough AP to outfit my character with it even if I skip all the weapons she doesn't use.

> Buy Akaviri pages, PvPers will be happy to make some coin again

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

I play Elder Scrolls because I like to quest and explore. I also like to craft. I don't like having to give up the first in order to do the second.

Then do that. Nobody is forcing you to do anything else, everything you listed can be gotten with gold which you can acquire almost anywhere. Especially in the beginning, questing is a major source for gold. And if you like exploring, you should have no problem collecting mats along the way.

Me, on the other hand, who hates doing the same quests over and over again? I'm stuck with getting my limited amount of skill points from quests or am actually gated from content before I complete quests.