V16 mats still rare as rocking horse poop in Orsinium compared to V14 mats.

timparr

I think this is awful - I have really enjoyed the game up until now and the fact that you could avoid grinding if you wanted was a big feature for me - I have spent my time questing, doing writs, crafting and it hasn't felt grindy at all.

I don't mind (so much) the grind for motifs or styles since these are cosmetic and one-offs so when they are done they are done, but mats are needed on a daily basis and shouldn't be very difficult to obtain if you go to the correct areas. I agree with all the comments that say that the system has been fine as it is so far, and I will definitely cancel my plus membership and probably quit playing this game if the situation doesn't improve.

Saltypretzels

They better change the writ system. Give us the option of doing voidstone and voidcloth writs, even if we have max skills.

I have no interest in spending top dollar in rubedo writs that have no chance of giving me a return on investment.

Actually i will probably just go around the system. I will have one character that gathers Orsinium nodes who has max skills.

I will have another character who will be 10/11 on the crafting passives so I can continue to do the voidstone and void cloth writs.

ZoS, why are you giving us a system that we have to place limits on ourselves just so it will work?

Messy1

ZOS there is going to be much complaining about this new crafting trend you have established.

I second what many players are saying on this post and what I have posted elsewhere Crafting = Grind even more so now that the material requirements have sky rocketed. Here's an easy formula for you to remember: Grind times Grind does not equal Fun

Titansteele

I think this thread is badly in need of some /lurk love!

Messy1

Titansteele wrote: »

I think this thread is badly in need of some /lurk love!

/lurk it . . . /lurk it now . . .

angelyn

Hehehe agree @Messy1 and @Titansteele

Iluvrien

Sadly, I suspect that ZOS won't touch this thread for the same reason they aren't touching the other "why did you add contrived grinds to crafting" threads:

1) If they deny it, they are proven to be lying by anyone who can do basic mathematics. They look bad.
2) If they don't deny it, it is obvious that they are then favouring crown store sales over actual player enjoyment. They look bad.

The only real way out of this is "Wow! We didn't see how the current spawn tables would end up affecting writs! We'd better change that!"... they look mildly daft for not having a full grasp, but it is a complex system and they might be able to explain it away if they change the VR16 material spawn rates. Their problem goes away, they are seen to be responsive to the needs of the players (rather than their faceless accounting exec) and the crafters heave a sigh of relief until the next issue appears over the horizon...

... I just wish I had any hope left that they would try it.

BlackEar

pelennor_fields wrote: »

BlackEar wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

It gives me a sense that I should maybe do something more worthwhile with my freaking time instead of doing virtual chores in a MMO.

I second this. A few weeks ago, on a whim, I back-tracked into Caldwell's Silver with my main to complete a few quests I'd missed. I had FUN. It was what I bought ESO in the first place to do.

But lately I've felt like I can't do that any more. If I want a chance at a Glass Motif fragment, I have to grind for materials to do Writs. If I want a chance at Xivkyn, I need to grind IC. If I want a chance at Akaviri, I actually have to start PvPing now and I still probably won't have enough AP to outfit my character with it even if I skip all the weapons she doesn't use.

I play Elder Scrolls because I like to quest and explore. I also like to craft. I don't like having to give up the first in order to do the second.

You having fun questing is in no way related to the progression time line of the crafting. They are seperate. I love questing too and I love gearing my player. What I hate is getting instantly the best gear available. Sucks all the fun out of it.

If I wanted instant gratifaction I would play another game.
Others called this chores. They are not chores to me, and those likeminded, we enjoy the progression. It doesn't mean we can play hours upon hours every day. What it MEANS is that we ENJOY the journey.

Which is what Elder Scrolls is all about - THE JOURNEY. I enjoy that. I enjoy that the crafting gives me a sense of this.

The mentality of many player's in here seem to be that they want EVERYTHING and they want it RIGHT NOW. It simply would ruin the game if this was the case.
Unfortunately, all they see is what they can't have instantly. A shame gamers have become this way.

I think you either misunderstand the point of this thread and the jist of what is being said or have a dramatically different isea of fun than the rest of us. I am fine with the highest level gear taking longer to obtain and longer to craft. What I am NOT okay with is having to spend over 300,000 gold or 30 plus game hours to fulfill one writ. Writs have been a part of my gaming routine 4 months now and I enjoy the time I spend and the rewards. Sometimes I have to go to extra links to obtain the materials, like this morning when I had to spend some time stealing night wood. Spending 30 minutes or so to fulfill my 6 writs is perfectly reasonable and has been an enjoyable activity. Even if the rng is a little off it is still nice to have a chance at a new motif. With the state of the availability of V16 crafting materials daily writs and the resulting rewards will be dead to me and thousands of other players.

I want options for new motifs besides spending hundreds of hours grinding for them or spending $40 of my hard earned cash when i am already paying $15 a month. :P

I understand the writ part. I have not done the writs so I did not know. Writs should not take more than 1 hour to complete.

Saltypretzels

After everyone who is used to doing daily writs suddenly realizes that can only get enough materials to do monthly writs and even then they rarely get something from them... The forums will explode and ZoS will change it a month later.

They can make bad decisions sometimes but generally they fix things when there is a real problem.

But I just don't get why they don't change things DURING the testing phase. I mean, that is what testing is for.

nimander99

Marrtha wrote: »

No sign of a ZOS head here yet, what are we doing wrong? At least some feedback that the community is listened to, please!

Yep I check this thread a couple times daily but I have a feeling they are gonna stick to their guns on this one and hope the madness blows over...

Nénlindë

Lurking also... Everything to be said has been said... Your turn Zenimax.

pelennor_fields

Saltypretzels wrote: »

After everyone who is used to doing daily writs suddenly realizes that can only get enough materials to do monthly writs and even then they rarely get something from them... The forums will explode and ZoS will change it a month later.

They can make bad decisions sometimes but generally they fix things when there is a real problem.

But I just don't get why they don't change things DURING the testing phase. I mean, that is what testing is for.

It's not going to blow over... Just wait until all the people who aren't on the forums figure this out. They should save face and fix it now while it is an easy "oops" moment. They are allowed to make some errors on a beast of a game like this. Just be responsive.

Nebthet78

pelennor_fields wrote: »

Saltypretzels wrote: »

After everyone who is used to doing daily writs suddenly realizes that can only get enough materials to do monthly writs and even then they rarely get something from them... The forums will explode and ZoS will change it a month later.

They can make bad decisions sometimes but generally they fix things when there is a real problem.

But I just don't get why they don't change things DURING the testing phase. I mean, that is what testing is for.

It's not going to blow over... Just wait until all the people who aren't on the forums figure this out. They should save face and fix it now while it is an easy "oops" moment. They are allowed to make some errors on a beast of a game like this. Just be responsive.

Exactly.. A simple little "oops we didn't mean for it (the mat grind) to be this bad, let's fix it now:... is much more acceptable than them trying to ignore the issue and only addressing it when the DLC is released and the forums and Facebook explodes with complaints.

@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_GinaBruno

I know you guys are super, super busy trying to make sure the much more major issues are the first thing being addressed on the PTS in time for the release, but please, please ensure that the issues with the mat node grind are at least addressed prior to DLC release, even if it is the last thing fixed, even if you bump it up so players with maxed skills have a 50% chance per node to get the new mats, that's fine, and much better than it is now.

Grinds for special/dropped armor sets and motifs are fine.. but Crafting is an integral part of this game and a huge social aspect. In the guild I am in, we even have a policy of crafting sets of gear for other guild members if they cannot afford it. It's extremely hard to be able to continue to do that when mats are restricted so much.

Nénlindë

Zenimax please, this is kind of a big deal.

newtinmpls

Nothing really to contribute, just wanted to admire the catchy thread title.

Although I am coming to think that nobody at ZoS actually plays the game, which is the only explanation I can imagine for changes that are clearly out of touch (like not even on the same planet) with the game experience.

newtinmpls

Saltypretzels wrote: »

After everyone who is used to doing daily writs suddenly realizes that can only get enough materials to do monthly writs and even then they rarely get something from them... The forums will explode and ZoS will change it a month later.

They can make bad decisions sometimes but generally they fix things when there is a real problem.

But I just don't get why they don't change things DURING the testing phase. I mean, that is what testing is for.

WHAT....????

I finally got around to maxing out hireling in my one maxed out blacksmith. Got no max materials the first day, then one the second. Thought to myself 'well, it's just a hireling, surely the folks on PTS are finding more than this when they node hunt'.

If this is not the case.....the ragequits over Glass are going to look small by comparison.

Xendyn

newtinmpls wrote: »

Saltypretzels wrote: »

After everyone who is used to doing daily writs suddenly realizes that can only get enough materials to do monthly writs and even then they rarely get something from them... The forums will explode and ZoS will change it a month later.

They can make bad decisions sometimes but generally they fix things when there is a real problem.

But I just don't get why they don't change things DURING the testing phase. I mean, that is what testing is for.

WHAT....????

I finally got around to maxing out hireling in my one maxed out blacksmith. Got no max materials the first day, then one the second. Thought to myself 'well, it's just a hireling, surely the folks on PTS are finding more than this when they node hunt'.

If this is not the case.....the ragequits over Glass are going to look small by comparison.

Newt, it's a mess. The scaling nodes are cool but even if your crafter is maxed, it's still only a chance to get the VR16 mats in them.
At this point, you can spend hours farming mats and come up with mostly Void stuff
Plus, your maxed out crafter will be doing writs that require those hard to find mats.

Well, mine probably won't be.

pelennor_fields

Nénlindë

Paazhahdrimaak

I'm scared to see what it'll take to make vet17 gear. Someday I'm sure it'll be just as bad. Or maybe by that time v16 gear will be easier to gather

Conquistador

This is so you spend time in IC as well to get materials, unless you are well off and buy them yourself through traders. It's not hard to think about since they aren't raising the level cap.

angelyn

Conquistador wrote: »

This is so you spend time in IC as well to get materials, unless you are well off and buy them yourself through traders. It's not hard to think about since they aren't raising the level cap.

There are many people who didn't buy IC as ZOS said it's a PVP DLC..so the only place they can farm those mats is Orsinium

Wycks

It's absolutely ridiculous that it takes months or millions of $$ to make just one crafted v16 set. ZOS needs to consider that people typically don't just make one set, they make mistakes, they want to try new sets , or respect into a different builds.

Once again they do things that make people leave, the inflated costs actually prevent people from playing the game.

So clueless time and time again....

Marrtha

bob.ellisonb16_ESO wrote: »

It's absolutely ridiculous that it takes months or millions of $$ to make just one crafted v16 set. ZOS needs to consider that people typically don't just make one set, they make mistakes, they want to try new sets , or respect into a different builds.

Once again they do things that make people leave, the inflated costs actually prevent people from playing the game.

So clueless time and time again....

Preach!

EDIT: I also always thought crafting was a way to have something decent, if you are casual, because if we are honest, look at the last patch flavours of the month: adroitness, martial knowledge etc.. I wouldn't have been able to gather those if it wasn't for my bestest friends who gave me pieces free of charge/helped me farm them. But now that I started working I just don't have the time.. I am not the kind that gathers tons of gold or anything of the sort, so how am I supposed to but those mats, as some genius told me to do? I don't even know.. I feel pushed in one direction in this game, and I do not like it. I gathered enough for 3 pieces so far.. And I don't even want to craft them because I am too scared of *** up..

pelennor_fields

Can we geta zenimax comment here? Prove the people who say you won't touch a crafting thread wrong.

Iluvrien

pelennor_fields wrote: »

Can we geta zenimax comment here? Prove the people who say you won't touch a crafting thread wrong.

I agree. Please prove me wrong!

I also think their recent actions are interesting in light of comments they made about a similar subject (artificially extending the veteran experience grind mechanics purely to extend playtime)

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Since we released Update 5, we've been paying very close attention to your concerns about the changes to Experience versus Veteran Point gain. We’d like to address some of those concerns.

First and foremost, we want everyone to know that we have zero interest in trying to extend your playtime by making you grind for experience. That includes grinding quests, monsters, dungeons, or anything else. If people aren't having a good time, we know they won’t stick around, so artificially inflating time spent playing is a self-defeating practice we aren't interested in. Our number one priority is fun (this is a game, after all!) and promoting a diverse array of activity options that allow you to pursue experience gains however you like.

(Original quote in context is still present in this thread, in case anyone want to check that I haven't edited or intentionally misquoted).

Emphasis mine. I have to wonder, when did this change?

Arkadius

pelennor_fields wrote: »

Can we geta zenimax comment here? Prove the people who say you won't touch a crafting thread wrong.

This whole topic is still subject of testing on PTS. They are collecting feedback about this here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/222451/official-feedback-thread-for-crafting-node-scaling

Don't expect any official comments regarding the test version outside the PTS forum.

Iluvrien

Xiana wrote: »

pelennor_fields wrote: »

Can we geta zenimax comment here? Prove the people who say you won't touch a crafting thread wrong.

This whole topic is still subject of testing on PTS. They are collecting feedback about this here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/222451/official-feedback-thread-for-crafting-node-scaling

Don't expect any official comments regarding the test version outside the PTS forum.

And in the 7 days that the official thread has been active... how many ZOS comments has it seen, would you say?

Or, perhaps Elloa's Glass Motif thread (another crafting thread) which was started 2 weeks ago and has over 200 replies. How many ZOS comments did that one get?

By all means suggest that people give ZOS feedback in the officially designated thread, but I suspect that, given the total lack of replies in that thread, the location of the thread is not the deciding factor for whether ZOS responds on it.

Of course ZOS responds to threads relating to PTS feedback outside the PTS forum (see the thread on The Failstrom Arena for example). They just don't respond to threads where doing so honestly will cause consternation or a loss of customers.

G0ku

Iluvrien wrote: »

pelennor_fields wrote: »

Can we geta zenimax comment here? Prove the people who say you won't touch a crafting thread wrong.

I agree. Please prove me wrong!

I also think their recent actions are interesting in light of comments they made about a similar subject (artificially extending the veteran experience grind mechanics purely to extend playtime)

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Since we released Update 5, we've been paying very close attention to your concerns about the changes to Experience versus Veteran Point gain. We’d like to address some of those concerns.

First and foremost, we want everyone to know that we have zero interest in trying to extend your playtime by making you grind for experience. That includes grinding quests, monsters, dungeons, or anything else. If people aren't having a good time, we know they won’t stick around, so artificially inflating time spent playing is a self-defeating practice we aren't interested in. Our number one priority is fun (this is a game, after all!) and promoting a diverse array of activity options that allow you to pursue experience gains however you like.

(Original quote in context is still present in this thread, in case anyone want to check that I haven't edited or intentionally misquoted).

Emphasis mine. I have to wonder, when did this change?

You still really wonder about them saying one thing one day and doing otherwise the next day?

btw that´s hilarious

pelennor_fields

Bump.

It would be simple to address one way or the other.