[Suggestion] A Balance for Bolt Escape

Tankqull

Xsorus wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Or you know..You could do what every sorc in the game does, and Bolt through the Target charging ya..

You can avoid being CC', especially when you know it's coming.

You won't avoid this CC, everyone knows this.

i´m perfectly fine when fighting a sorc to perma block all their potential cc on my NB ... espacially as 99% of the sorcs are not using streak(since streaks unblockable cc has been changed to a blockable stun in 1.6) but ball of lightning wich does not cc while treveling but only at a circle around the starting point - making it obvious where the cc will be applied.

It's going to apply soon as you get next to them, if sorcs weren't bloody escaping people with ease you wouldn't have silly suggestions like "just don't chase the sorc". Not would you have a ton of people complaining about bolt escape or saying it's the best escape in the game. the only idiots saying just crit charge the sorc is actual sorcs because they know it doesn't work and that's their go to response they hand out.

the problem is people have no clue, neither of what they are doing and capable off nor what the enemy class can do. the amount of players either playing all 4 classes in pvp and/or actually investing time in knowing their enemys capability is none existant. as it is so much easier to cry a river ig or at the boards than actually starting to "learn" the game mechanics.

charging a sorc does exactly what it is supposed to, denying the 15m (max range) port wich can be reduced by the landscape significantly. its a 1 to 1 trade nothing more and nothing less, are you inable to block while charging? nope so what ever he does if you do not react like being hypnotoaded you are not going to be cced ever by the sorc or end up out of range - i´m killed every day i play my sorc by people beeing able to push two buttons at the same time completly denying my defense in form of hardend ward with high dmging critical charges which deplete 70-90% of its value leaving me heavily vulnurable to the next charge thx to the overflow bug, while completly ignoring my cc options.
and than you have those guys running unstealthed at you enabling you to stack inevitable detonation, curse, a proced insta fragment charged by might of the guild in green armor eating 4-6 CS+8light attacks blaming sorcs for dealing to much dmg ...

Rylana

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Or you know..You could do what every sorc in the game does, and Bolt through the Target charging ya..

You can avoid being CC', especially when you know it's coming.

You won't avoid this CC, everyone knows this.

i´m perfectly fine when fighting a sorc to perma block all their potential cc on my NB ... espacially as 99% of the sorcs are not using streak(since streaks unblockable cc has been changed to a blockable stun in 1.6) but ball of lightning wich does not cc while treveling but only at a circle around the starting point - making it obvious where the cc will be applied.

It's going to apply soon as you get next to them, if sorcs weren't bloody escaping people with ease you wouldn't have silly suggestions like "just don't chase the sorc". Not would you have a ton of people complaining about bolt escape or saying it's the best escape in the game. the only idiots saying just crit charge the sorc is actual sorcs because they know it doesn't work and that's their go to response they hand out.

the problem is people have no clue, neither of what they are doing and capable off nor what the enemy class can do. the amount of players either playing all 4 classes in pvp and/or actually investing time in knowing their enemys capability is none existant. as it is so much easier to cry a river ig or at the boards than actually starting to "learn" the game mechanics.

charging a sorc does exactly what it is supposed to, denying the 15m (max range) port wich can be reduced by the landscape significantly. its a 1 to 1 trade nothing more and nothing less, are you inable to block while charging? nope so what ever he does if you do not react like being hypnotoaded you are not going to be cced ever by the sorc or end up out of range - i´m killed every day i play my sorc by people beeing able to push two buttons at the same time completly denying my defense in form of hardend ward with high dmging critical charges which deplete 70-90% of its value leaving me heavily vulnurable to the next charge thx to the overflow bug, while completly ignoring my cc options.
and than you have those guys running unstealthed at you enabling you to stack inevitable detonation, curse, a proced insta fragment charged by might of the guild in green armor eating 4-6 CS+8light attacks blaming sorcs for dealing to much dmg ...

Hit a DK sword and board user last night with a proc crystal frag at about 20m range followed up by a shooting star.

13k on the frag, 19.5k on the meteor

He sent me a tell asking me why i was hacking. I responded with "because you didnt flap your wings, have defensive posture up, block, roll dodge, or have any nirn traits on"

he didnt reply back

had it been a competent player, I would have killed myself (or done so little damage to him he woulda thought a fly buzzed on him)

Mayrael

And this beautyful thread title. SUGESTION! BALANCE! Why you all complaining? Its not the nerf sorc thread at all. I wont defend sorc this time, because i rerolled... There is just one viable build for sorcs, this class is so nerfed already that thanks to all changes implemented in patches 1.6+ its useles . Now excuse me i need to lvlup some alliance rank on my stamina NB... Or ill play my stam DK

pkb16_ESO2

Mayrael wrote: »

And this beautyful thread title. SUGESTION! BALANCE! Why you all complaining? Its not the nerf sorc thread at all. I wont defend sorc this time, because i rerolled... There is just one viable build for sorcs, this class is so nerfed already that thanks to all changes implemented in patches 1.6+ its useles . Now excuse me i need to lvlup some alliance rank on my stamina NB... Or ill play my stam DK

if you are bad as sorc now, than you will be bad with every class.

Darnathian

Post an honest answer please. If you are rooted by talons or such why should you be able to travel?

Other than that I have no problems with it. You would have to break before using it which would give time for a fight or charge. Doesn't make any sense you should be streaming with talons on you.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Well my logic is working. Bashing DKs are ok but bashing any other class and you need to L2P. And the whole closeing the gap thing yea easier said than done when there bolt can just break free or re open the gap just as fast if not faster.

Armitas

I was under the impression that you could block cast bolt, is that not the case?

Ancile

Am I one of the only DKs who do not have an issue with Bolt Escape and thinks others who do have an issue need to learn how to play the game?

Force-Siphon

Bolt Escape works through talons the same way you can dodge roll out of it...you don't Cc break it the same way as petrify, fear,etc...abilities that you can't Bolt through. Nerfing Bolt Escape in the suggested manner would kill magic sorcs as a pvp class. Crit rush, invasion, etc all work as a counter like others have said. this is a learn to play issue.

Ezareth

Xsorus wrote: »

It's going to apply soon as you get next to them, if sorcs weren't bloody escaping people with ease you wouldn't have silly suggestions like "just don't chase the sorc". Not would you have a ton of people complaining about bolt escape or saying it's the best escape in the game. the only idiots saying just crit charge the sorc is actual sorcs because they know it doesn't work and that's their go to response they hand out.

Yeah well this "idiot" is telling you what works. If you're too bad to pull it off, I can't help you. I wasn't lying or exaggerating when I said a 2hander stamina build is what I fear the most on my sorc and I doubt you'll find many decent sorcs who say otherwise. You can use crit charge so that you're not right on top of the sorc when it lands, even if you do get on top of him you can take 1 step back before it even hits to avoid the stun. This game is so buggy and unreliable it doesn't take a genius to find a way to break about any mechanic.

I'll take the trade on "Chasing the sorc" every time if I'm built for it because I know they're losing 3K+ magicka a pop and crit charge costs me nothing factoring my regen. Even when I'm sprinting I can sprint just about as fast as a sorc bolt escapes and when they finally try to turn around and fight my stamina bar is higher than their magicka bar. If I were an Orc...I could probably permarun and faster than a sorc could bolt.

It is as I've always said it was, the "Ganker" type players typically just lack skill to do anything other than gank because that's all they ever do. These are the guys who try sprinting after a sorc or spamming ambush on the sorc with a gank build instead of a sustain build. You can't have your cake an eat it too. Know your class and your limitations.

Xsorus

Rylana wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Bolt Escape is only strong against those who follow a fleeing sorc and waste their stamina trying to catch up..

Also, Bolt Escape isnt working when the servers start to lag and the ball of lightning doesnt absorb half the spells so its balanced enough imo.

So.....Its either don't chase the Sorc letting him escape 100% of the time

Or

Chase the sorc and have him waste your stamina trying to catch up...

If you don't chase, the sorc will come come back to you.

That has to be quite possibly the worst advice I've seen given on this forum to date.

Yes just wait for the sorc to come back for you, it'll never possibly be when you are fighting someone else. Oh and if you manage to chase him off again. Remember just stay there and don't chase because having 100% chance to escape a fight isn't overpowered at all.

You seem like the kind of person who would say don't chase the thief in gw2 as well.

/facepalm

And you sound like a guy trying to tell everyone the only valid way to play is to stand still, not block (ever), not have any shields up, and just take those two incoming wrecking blows to the face because it makes you amazing to be able to hit the 1 key twice.

Perspective dude.

What are you even going on about? I said nothing of standing still, not blocking and not using shields.

I pointed out that not chasing is a stupid suggestion becauses you can't just not chase because it's most likely going to end up with that sorc jumping you when you are fighting someone else. Bout the only time you can just not chase is if you are with other people.

Even then not chasing raises balance issues. It basically says the sorc should be able to escape every fight because anyone who chases is going to lose.

So take your little perspective and learn from it.

Cin hit the nail on the head in the post above this one. What I was trying to get across to you.

You dont like it when the fight is taken out of your comfort zone, and thats what sorcs do as the mobility specialists. We arent the toe to toe slug it out fighters, we move and position to survive. With the sheer amount of one-hit wonder melee builds (and some ranged) its any wonder we do as well as we do and still see bolt escape threads as it is.

Now I personally am not a runner, unless outnumbered. I play very offensively on my sorc, because I am a raw bomber/damage build. But like all sorcs I CAN run away if i so choose. What usually happens is ill engage one guy, be doing alright, and suddenly three of his buddies pop up. then I have no choice but to bail and hope a couple follow, so i can string them out and take them out one by one.

You know what nerfing BE does to sorcs? it forces them to literally be instant AP for everyone else on the battlefield, and it aint happening on my watch. Its been nerfed three times already, yall calling for more nerfs have done enough damage in the past, thanks. if anything the added cost that BE gets when spammed should be added to EVERY ABILITY IN THE GAME. Then see how you like it.


Also what I am "on about" is your entire post history in this thread, you pretty much want the sorc class to be a free kill, and thats the sentiment i glean from every post thus far. You talk about critcharge so i know youre a 2H build (thus my WB comment). Sorry im not going to just stay in melee range of attacks that will smash through my 8k armor rating.

Few points i'd like to stress

You are mobility specialists, for balance reasons though that shouldn't mean 100% chance to escape because you know..reasons.

Second point, You're not toe to toe slug out fighters? Really? Cause I can link you quite a few videos of Sorcs right now standing pretty toe to toe with a lot of people at once. Maybe Pre 1.6 you weren't toe to toe fighters...Now though..Oh I don't think so mate...Sorcs are one of the hardest classes to fight toe to toe and its not cause of Bolt Escape.

Third Point.. I specifically said they shouldn't nerf Bolt Escape yet till we see what happens in 1.7..Its Overpowered right now, but they might change something in 1.7 that effects the balance of Bolt Escape.

Final Point, I don't want to sorc class to be a free kill, I simply think balance is a good way to go about the game..If ya think Sorcs are balanced right now...No one is going to take you seriously. Your class has far to much damage/survive ability and mobility right now for it to be balanced. You're basically the pre nerf DK with Bolt Escape at this point.

Xsorus

Ezareth wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

It's going to apply soon as you get next to them, if sorcs weren't bloody escaping people with ease you wouldn't have silly suggestions like "just don't chase the sorc". Not would you have a ton of people complaining about bolt escape or saying it's the best escape in the game. the only idiots saying just crit charge the sorc is actual sorcs because they know it doesn't work and that's their go to response they hand out.

Yeah well this "idiot" is telling you what works. If you're too bad to pull it off, I can't help you. I wasn't lying or exaggerating when I said a 2hander stamina build is what I fear the most on my sorc and I doubt you'll find many decent sorcs who say otherwise. You can use crit charge so that you're not right on top of the sorc when it lands, even if you do get on top of him you can take 1 step back before it even hits to avoid the stun. This game is so buggy and unreliable it doesn't take a genius to find a way to break about any mechanic.

I'll take the trade on "Chasing the sorc" every time if I'm built for it because I know they're losing 3K+ magicka a pop and crit charge costs me nothing factoring my regen. Even when I'm sprinting I can sprint just about as fast as a sorc bolt escapes and when they finally try to turn around and fight my stamina bar is higher than their magicka bar. If I were an Orc...I could probably permarun and faster than a sorc could bolt.

It is as I've always said it was, the "Ganker" type players typically just lack skill to do anything other than gank because that's all they ever do. These are the guys who try sprinting after a sorc or spamming ambush on the sorc with a gank build instead of a sustain build. You can't have your cake an eat it too. Know your class and your limitations.

You can hit 2k+ magicka regen fairly easy...I mean You can bolt a stupid amount of times and all it takes is really a double bolt and you won't catch them.

Though a Well Fitted Orc Nightblade might be pretty good at it..Though no Nirnhoned means you'd probably die when ya got there.

Ffastyl

Armitas wrote: »

I was under the impression that you could block cast bolt, is that not the case?

This is the case. I have watched friendly sorcerers block cast it around outposts.

Mayrael wrote: »

SUGESTION! BALANCE! Why you all complaining? Its not the nerf sorc thread at all.

Thank you for posting something reasonable.

Ezareth wrote: »

I'll take the trade on "Chasing the sorc" every time if I'm built for it because I know they're losing 3K+ magicka a pop and crit charge costs me nothing factoring my regen. Even when I'm sprinting I can sprint just about as fast as a sorc bolt escapes and when they finally try to turn around and fight my stamina bar is higher than their magicka bar.

Xsorus wrote: »

You can hit 2k+ magicka regen fairly easy...I mean You can bolt a stupid amount of times and all it takes is really a double bolt and you won't catch them.

Please refer to my linked thread "outright negate it" in the opening. It is a Sorcerer build by Teargrants with 5200 Magicka Regeneration.
He admitted later on that is not his combat build and linked a screenshot (below) of his combat build's stats.

Cost reduction is not shown in the character window, but having access to the Champion System and being Breton, he no doubt has some degree of Magicka cost reduction active.

Force-Siphon wrote: »

Nerfing Bolt Escape in the suggested manner would kill magic sorcs as a pvp class. Crit rush, invasion, etc all work as a counter like others have said. this is a learn to play issue.

As stated above, Sorcerers have infamous defense and offense available to them in conjunction with Bolt Escape's mobility. No one of these traits gives rise to the unkillable sorcerer builds, but each contributes and create this imbalance together. Rebalancing one aspect while leaving the others intact will dramatically impact the unkillable builds.

There are well known counters to Critical Rush, Invasion, and other charging attacks already mentioned in this thread: Daedric Mines and Bolt Escaping at a severe angle (not a straight line) or through the charging opponent. One counter-counter has been mentioned, which is the ability to block while charging, negating the CC from a Sorcerer attempting the Bolt through the aggressor, however the others lack counters. If a Sorcerer employs the counters to charging skills, there are no counters the other player has available to turn the tables back in their favor.



This thread is about rebalancing one aspect of Sorcerers to eliminate the unkillable builds seen since 1.6.0. This suggestion alone is unlikely to eliminate all unkillable builds, but it will reduce them. It is clear some have concerns for what such a change to Bolt Escape's mechanics would bring, so I invite you to suggest an alternate solution or change to the one I have presented. One such change has been proposed twice so far: including only the root effect. Reasons for excluding the snare effects and Expedition effects have not been adequately explained, but it is a step in the right direction. I ask the rest of you to take your fighting and off-topic comments elsewhere.

Armitas

Ffastyl wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I was under the impression that you could block cast bolt, is that not the case?

This is the case. I have watched friendly sorcerers block cast it around outposts.

Thanks. With all the reports of people dying to gap closers while bolting I was starting to doubt it.

Xsorus

This is why I don't support nerfing Bolt Escape right onw

"For the next major update you'll see a lot of cool customization options with all the crazy new item sets. For example we've got one that will have you running around chasing orbs for bonus damage, or additional attacks vs targets with damage shields."

See stuff like that will play a role in balance issues.

while Bolt Escape is op right now....1.7 it might not be the case

Derra

Yay. I can already be instakilled with my shields on by ppl that know that they are doing. Now they´re adding sets for everybody to instaplop you? NICE!

Vis

Armitas wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I was under the impression that you could block cast bolt, is that not the case?

This is the case. I have watched friendly sorcerers block cast it around outposts.

Thanks. With all the reports of people dying to gap closers while bolting I was starting to doubt it.

No sorcerer would hold block while bolting. Even if it were possible, it would get him killed because block costs drain stamina on a sorc faster than anything else. But hey, let other people tell you what they "think" they see from friendly sorcs. Don't take it from us who actually rank a and play the class.

Ancile

Xsorus wrote: »

while Bolt Escape is op right now....1.7 it might not be the case

I kill bolting sorcs on my DK all the time. PM me and I will give you some lessons and tips in exchange for in-game gold. I am always willing to teach others, for the right price.

Mayrael

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

And this beautyful thread title. SUGESTION! BALANCE! Why you all complaining? Its not the nerf sorc thread at all. I wont defend sorc this time, because i rerolled... There is just one viable build for sorcs, this class is so nerfed already that thanks to all changes implemented in patches 1.6+ its useles . Now excuse me i need to lvlup some alliance rank on my stamina NB... Or ill play my stam DK

if you are bad as sorc now, than you will be bad with every class.

Mate i know how to pew pew on my sorc but its so monochromatic class that im sick & tired. There is just one way to play this class and its so fkn boooring... Ive played this toon over a year so pls... With 75% of my class skills beeing dodged, stamina drained by fearing NBs its realy nothing funny. Y its easy to kill some rookies but this is no fun, when you meet expireinced player there is almost nothing what sorc can do in 1v1 except of run Forest run! NB will dodge&fear you to death. DK will tank you to death, here sorc have some chances but it depends if DK is patient or not. Only templars cant kill sorc. But as we all know templars are underpowered. Sorc vs sorc its skill battle, bc 90% of sorcs runs the same build (there isnt any other efective builds). When im facing sorc, i almost can pedict how fight will look like. Its so boring class...


And my NB was vet14 long before 1.6 and then he rocked with hybrid build. Now he rocks with stam build but i dont enjoy it somehow, its powerfull but its not in my style. Now im dusting off my DK... TBH im seeking for something fresh and new, because sorc doesnt offer any versatility in PvP ofc. Stamina sorcs arent viable, i was against stamina morphs but i must admit that i was wrong. As a magica user there is just one way to play this class Ive tried almost all sets and skill setups, ive spend almost 1 000 000 gold for tests (i know i should go to PTS but what is live is live), i have my setup, i have good burst, awesome survivability, great resource managment but even though my skill setup and rotation is obvious and can be countered easly if someone knows what to do. And the worst thing is that all wants to nerf the sorc to the ground. Realy if you die fighting a class that have one build you suck... As it was before 1.6 when DKs were rulling in cyro using one build. Ive just made my counter build and it was so funny to watch them die.

Lava_Croft

Mayrael wrote: »

NB will dodge&fear you to death.

Because both dodging and fearing do such insane amounts of damage...

MormondPayne_EP

Xsorus wrote: »

MormondPayne_EP wrote: »

OH FFS!!!!

WHAT ABOUT INFINITE DODGE F%&%^ING ROLLING!

Seriously!

My Sorc is effectively useless at the moment with the Nirn bug making me do sweet FA damage, the infinite dodge rollers dodging EVERY single projectile and now you want to nerf the balls off bolt escape so that instead of being able to run away and do nothing I just have to sit there and die.

Get the %^& out of here...

This has enraged me... do not say another word.

You mean that thing thats ignored by countless abilities right now?

Countless abilities? You mean the whole 2?!!?!?!?!

Snit

(not worth it)

RinaldoGandolphi

Snit wrote: »

(not worth it)

Yeah my thoughts as well....

Armitas

Vis wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I was under the impression that you could block cast bolt, is that not the case?

This is the case. I have watched friendly sorcerers block cast it around outposts.

Thanks. With all the reports of people dying to gap closers while bolting I was starting to doubt it.

No sorcerer would hold block while bolting. Even if it were possible, it would get him killed because block costs drain stamina on a sorc faster than anything else. But hey, let other people tell you what they "think" they see from friendly sorcs. Don't take it from us who actually rank a and play the class.

Block costs the same no matter what class you are. The sorcs I see run s/b with the block reduction passive and apparently from the pic they also have a healthy stam recovery. Its multi hits like jabs that break stamina not gap closers. It costs more stamina to gap close than it does to block, especially wearing S/B like so many sorcs. With 1200 stam regen as a reference from the pic +20% reduction passive and pots you should be able to handle blocking while bolting. I have less stamina recovery and can manage it.

At any rate it certainly makes no sense to die to gap closers to save your stamina. Or Bolt without block and get knocked down from an invade. I can see them letting a ward take the hit if their CC immunity is up but not openly taking a hit at 15k health, or letting themselves get knocked down so they can spend several times the stamina to get back up. It's also not what I see happening in Cyrodiil.

pkb16_ESO2

Mayrael wrote: »

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

And this beautyful thread title. SUGESTION! BALANCE! Why you all complaining? Its not the nerf sorc thread at all. I wont defend sorc this time, because i rerolled... There is just one viable build for sorcs, this class is so nerfed already that thanks to all changes implemented in patches 1.6+ its useles . Now excuse me i need to lvlup some alliance rank on my stamina NB... Or ill play my stam DK

if you are bad as sorc now, than you will be bad with every class.

Mate i know how to pew pew on my sorc but its so monochromatic class that im sick & tired. There is just one way to play this class and its so fkn boooring... Ive played this toon over a year so pls... With 75% of my class skills beeing dodged, stamina drained by fearing NBs its realy nothing funny. Y its easy to kill some rookies but this is no fun, when you meet expireinced player there is almost nothing what sorc can do in 1v1 except of run Forest run! NB will dodge&fear you to death. DK will tank you to death, here sorc have some chances but it depends if DK is patient or not. Only templars cant kill sorc. But as we all know templars are underpowered. Sorc vs sorc its skill battle, bc 90% of sorcs runs the same build (there isnt any other efective builds). When im facing sorc, i almost can pedict how fight will look like. Its so boring class...

Its true that NB has a good spot in 1v1 against Sorcs right now, but that mainly because of Nirn. Everybody knows that stam drain is the key to kill sorc but against a good one its not that easy. Take nirn away and the pressure of dam a sorc does is so hard that a NB will have it very difficult.
A dk no matter if stam or magicka needs real counter build to kill a good sorc.
I play temp and i play a sorc counter build and i kill them a lot.
But 1) i need a counter build to kill them (and you cant kill them with jabs cause cc immunity, so stupid) ... that already should show that its not good balanced.
2) The blink is just a too good escape in open PvP.

And its absolutely true that perma rolldodge is OP and Nirn it ridiculous.
But to if you take that just away sorc will be too strong.
All in all Zos really made a *** balance... i really believe it was much better pre 1.5. how could that be possible???

pjwb16_ESO

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

i really believe it was much better pre 1.5. how could that be possible???

because it was better

Francescolg

a NO to any sorcerer-nurf or even slight tweaking! This class is perfectly balanced and mobility is overrated in pvp.

if not understandable, choose one of this arguments:

1. playing sorcerer is boring
2. stamina-builds are better and much more imba! Focus on them and not on our skirts!!
3. sorcerers are underdog, not many play sorc and a nurf would not benefit!
4. if you make the sorcerer weaker, you buff Templars! no to imba Templars 111
5. a sorcerer can not port from one end of the map to the other, so it's far from imba!

Xsorus

MormondPayne_EP wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

MormondPayne_EP wrote: »

OH FFS!!!!

WHAT ABOUT INFINITE DODGE F%&%^ING ROLLING!

Seriously!

My Sorc is effectively useless at the moment with the Nirn bug making me do sweet FA damage, the infinite dodge rollers dodging EVERY single projectile and now you want to nerf the balls off bolt escape so that instead of being able to run away and do nothing I just have to sit there and die.

Get the %^& out of here...

This has enraged me... do not say another word.

You mean that thing thats ignored by countless abilities right now?

Countless abilities? You mean the whole 2?!!?!?!?!

If by two you mean

Concealed Blade
Lava Whip
Radiant Destruction
Twilight Pet
Sorc Curses
Inevitable Detonation (Prox as well)
and i'm pretty sure i'm missing some more

Snit

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

A dk no matter if stam or magicka needs real counter build to kill a good sorc

DK's can cast one spell to reflect the next four cast by the sorc. That includes the sorc's heaviest hitter and bread-and-butter spell, Frags. If you choose not to use it, or you can't sort out how to use it, that's not a class balance issue.

dRudE

The problem isn't bolt or roll dodging, they both do exactly what they are supposed to and that's keeping a ranged dps at range. It's not bloody rocket science. It all depends what set up the player is using, a high dps build isn't going to go very far compared to a high regen build. If you are a high dps (mag/stam, doesn't matter) and you are chasing down a high regen build the chances are your going to die. That's their play style, L2P.