Today I realized what I don’t like about Vet levels:

AngersRevenge

Change your weapons. Learn different weapons and use those skills. It keeps the game fresh'ish for me

Zanen

It doesn't take that long to level.

I've never managed to level up all my skills leveled before reaching VR14, if you're playing the same build all the way through no wonder it's boring.

IcyDeadPeople

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

Really the problem is just that they are insanely grindy. Particularly for people leveling alts. Anyone up for another session grinding overworld mobs in Cadwell's Gold? Yeah I'd rather go bash my head against the wall.

At least when the Craglorn grinds were a thing it wasn't so terrible. What I would give now for Shadow, Burials, or Upper Crag grind.

Yeah I know its grindy, but other games are just as grindy... but I had more reasons to grind in the other games. Why do I need to grind in ESO? What is so special about VR14 other then the title.

The reason I grind to VR14 is so I can develop and test the actual build I will play for that character, get all the armor pieces, upgrade them and try to make that character as competitive as possible for PVP.

Starting from level 3 - VR13 I'm usually wearing mostly broken random armor pieces I find along the way while grinding, and I don't spend gold to repair this armor.

It only takes about 18-20 hours to go from starting a new character to VR1. The veteran ranks are much slower, especially VR10-VR14. This is discouraging if you want to level an alt to try a new class or completely different sort of build.
.

NewBlacksmurf

Samuel_Bantien wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Good read but I'd rather they go sooner than later since it was started and in phase 3 or 4 already

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it looks like there is a change of plans concerning phase 4. Notice the "Can only be consumed if you are not Veteran Ranked".

Something I placed as a feedback in-game concerning Veteran Ranks:

"The Veteran Rank Experience System

The Veteran Rank Experience System is an abomination to players, new and old. When leveling from level 49 to 50 the experience required is fine due to a sense of progression, but when hitting level 50 (Veteran Rank 1) it requires 1,000,000 experience to level up once. This halts all sense of progression because players have become accustomed to the pushes as they level along throughout the quest line.

1,000,000 experience not only looks like it will take forever just to level up once - it does take forever to level up just once. Players are used to gaining several levels per zone, but the Veteran Rank Experience System only allows a level and even less when questing. There is several ways to allow players to have that sense of progression:

1.) Reduce the amount of experience required to level. Reducing the 1,000,000 experience per level to 400,000 allows players to feel like they gain a champion point per rank up and this allows them to feel like they are progressing through the world still. This also allows each Zone to grant them more than just 1 level if they do the quest lines.

2.) Allow the Enlightenment system to affect the players actual experience bar. The player will still have to earn 1,000,000 experience to level, but each day they will be able to get 400,000 Experience faster than usual due to the promised sense of not being left behind as advertised.

3.) Completely remove Veteran Ranks. Although this was promised in the 4th step of the 4 part plan to removing the Veteran Ranks, there is one thing that had caught my eye. The experience boost potion. The potion had stated that it would only work from 1-50 EXCLUDING VETERAN RANKS. This was a sign that Veteran Ranks may not be removed although it was promised. The community will see what happens in the future soon enough.

During the release of ESO, Veteran Ranks were the real population and community killer. We see that ZoS has learned from this but have not taken full action to killing the Veteran Ranks. As of now the Veteran Ranks feel more like a grind [rather than] than progression, and should be reevaluated with such ideas given above. Any of these ideas will save the game from killing players who do not feel like they have any sense of progression after hitting Veteran Rank 1. I urge ZoS to release one of these ideas into effect if Veteran Ranks are not removed next major update or even in an incrimental patch.

Thank you for taking your time to read this, I hope that Elder Scroll Online lives up to the potential it has."

Edit - Forgot my end quote.

There is a very old post when this was data mines that clarifies things aren't final and are heavily subject to change.
There is another thread regarding VR leveling where ZOS addressed they still intend to remove them and again it was on a recent ZOS twitch live

I do think those exp gems will pop up soon after June 9th on console and PC

wraith808

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

Really the problem is just that they are insanely grindy. Particularly for people leveling alts. Anyone up for another session grinding overworld mobs in Cadwell's Gold? Yeah I'd rather go bash my head against the wall.

At least when the Craglorn grinds were a thing it wasn't so terrible. What I would give now for Shadow, Burials, or Upper Crag grind.

I disagree now due to having champion points. To have both seems redundant or at times confusing or pointless.
Maybe if the skills and stats came from the champion points and npc and gear also followed champion levels then life would be better ....maybe

I don't think that they need to remove them in order to make them less 'grindy'. They just need to remove the relationship between VRs and cadwell's silver and gold, i.e. unlock all content at the moment you become VR1, and remove the artificial inflation of the experience required, i.e. VRs should have no more experience required than 49-50, rather than them trying to artificially tie them to completing an area in Caldwell's for each VR. Then all of their problems would just disappear, and they wouldn't have to go through some complex manner of re-designing the system to remove VRs.

Most people aren't looking at the root of the problem. VRs are just the scapegoat. As to why... they're grindy, they take too long to go through, and they lock you out of content.

Remove those, and they aren't a problem in and of itself. But we're going to get some implementation that takes a while to develop, a while to test and remove the defects, and takes away from giving us new content.

Is that really what anyone wants?

NewBlacksmurf

Chuggernaut wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Chuggernaut wrote: »

I think the VR levels are still getting dropped before the end of the year. I hope they add more skill lines, or at least a way to unlock other existing skill lines. Like a post 50 quest chain to unlock another class's skill line. They could totally pad it out too so that you'd have to unlock the skill lines in a specific order.

Isn't this what the champion system does? Asking from your point of view

The champion system is a huge time sink, but only unlocks passives to the best of my knowledge (only 57 points in atm). Giving players the ability to work towards unlocking a skill line is different in that the end reward is you'd actually have some new active abilities to use. Another better option would be to unshelf the Spellcrafting update and get that into the game asap.

...spell crafting is on hold due to the removal of VR and other things we see and should see soon per ZOS twitch live a few weeks ago in April.

The champion system according to what they've shared is here to replace VR in their phased approach.
I think they are heading in the direction you speak of but differently.

The spell craft will give you the new active skills while the champion system gives you new Passives
Yet to be determined are those vet stat and skill points that seemingly aren't going away on a per character basis unless it's handled like the mount conversion and then somehow apply afterwards on a per character progressions based on champion points earned by character.

I'm guessing on some of this obviously but there is quite a bit of clear info from ZOS which is always subject to change

Tomg999

the OP really rings true to me. This weekend I got my level 49 over the hump, ran thru the "final battle" and such, and got to Vet 1.
Then I'm dumped in Auridon, to do those quests for like the 8th time. OK, cool, I'm getting champion points for all my alts, but now it's getting old.
So I switch to my Vet 5 main char and, like the OP said, I'm thinking "why"? She has 24 skillpoints I haven't used. I don't want to learn two-handed or whatever, I have weapons and bars that work for her class, race, & role. I'm bored.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Even worse for me is what going from 49 to VR 1 does for your stats in Cyrodiil. Since battle levelling only affects characters 49 and under, you take a massive decrease in power when you hit VR 1.

So not only do you get a grind, you get nerfed as well in PvP for your troubles.

So I won't be sad to see VR levels go. I will be sad that Champion Points seem to be even a worse grind that further discourages new players from starting the game... but that of course is a separate problem.

Cry_Wolfe

Personally the Cadwell's Quests feel like my character died fighting Molag Bal and is stuck reliving a never ending cycle of everything that has already happened. I know i know, it's the promised torture and Molag Bal really did win that fight....


It makes me wonder if ZoS just wrote up the story for ESO, patted each other on the back and all agreed that "That is enough!", without thought to future content or story lines.

I don't mind grindy and long levels. What I hate is feeling like I am achieving nothing, not even a sense of wonder and excitement over a well written story, skill set progression and even gear progression don't matter if the plot line/s are taking you somewhere. Vanilla ESO:(TU) if expressed as a time line, is best represented as the capital letter D, from point A to point B then back to Point A.

PS:
Imagine a TES game where your character only had access to 1/3 of the total map, based upon their race. Cheap decisions about the writing department are coming back to bite ZoS on the a$$ all over the place :P... maybe they can hire an overpaid voice to explain it.

Chuggernaut

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Chuggernaut wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Chuggernaut wrote: »

I think the VR levels are still getting dropped before the end of the year. I hope they add more skill lines, or at least a way to unlock other existing skill lines. Like a post 50 quest chain to unlock another class's skill line. They could totally pad it out too so that you'd have to unlock the skill lines in a specific order.

Isn't this what the champion system does? Asking from your point of view

The champion system is a huge time sink, but only unlocks passives to the best of my knowledge (only 57 points in atm). Giving players the ability to work towards unlocking a skill line is different in that the end reward is you'd actually have some new active abilities to use. Another better option would be to unshelf the Spellcrafting update and get that into the game asap.

...spell crafting is on hold due to the removal of VR and other things we see and should see soon per ZOS twitch live a few weeks ago in April.

The champion system according to what they've shared is here to replace VR in their phased approach.
I think they are heading in the direction you speak of but differently.

The spell craft will give you the new active skills while the champion system gives you new Passives
Yet to be determined are those vet stat and skill points that seemingly aren't going away on a per character basis unless it's handled like the mount conversion and then somehow apply afterwards on a per character progressions based on champion points earned by character.

I'm guessing on some of this obviously but there is quite a bit of clear info from ZOS which is always subject to change

lol for sure! I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Gidorick

Cry_Wolfe wrote: »

Personally the Cadwell's Quests feel like my character died fighting Molag Bal and is stuck reliving a never ending cycle of everything that has already happened. I know i know, it's the promised torture and Molag Bal really did win that fight....


It makes me wonder if ZoS just wrote up the story for ESO, patted each other on the back and all agreed that "That is enough!", without thought to future content or story lines.

I don't mind grindy and long levels. What I hate is feeling like I am achieving nothing, not even a sense of wonder and excitement over a well written story, skill set progression and even gear progression don't matter if the plot line/s are taking you somewhere. Vanilla ESO:(TU) if expressed as a time line, is best represented as the capital letter D, from point A to point B then back to Point A.

PS:
Imagine a TES game where your character only had access to 1/3 of the total map, based upon their race. Cheap decisions about the writing department are coming back to bite ZoS on the a$$ all over the place :P... maybe they can hire an overpaid voice to explain it.

Blah... blah... Dragonbreak... blah... blah...

Cry_Wolfe

Gidorick wrote: »

Cry_Wolfe wrote: »

Personally the Cadwell's Quests feel like my character died fighting Molag Bal and is stuck reliving a never ending cycle of everything that has already happened. I know i know, it's the promised torture and Molag Bal really did win that fight....


It makes me wonder if ZoS just wrote up the story for ESO, patted each other on the back and all agreed that "That is enough!", without thought to future content or story lines.

I don't mind grindy and long levels. What I hate is feeling like I am achieving nothing, not even a sense of wonder and excitement over a well written story, skill set progression and even gear progression don't matter if the plot line/s are taking you somewhere. Vanilla ESO:(TU) if expressed as a time line, is best represented as the capital letter D, from point A to point B then back to Point A.

PS:
Imagine a TES game where your character only had access to 1/3 of the total map, based upon their race. Cheap decisions about the writing department are coming back to bite ZoS on the a$$ all over the place :P... maybe they can hire an overpaid voice to explain it.

Blah... blah... Dragonbreak... blah... blah...

dragonbreak -blah-blah ........



1 trick pony, wtb flea circus "with real fleas!"

nimander99

http://i.imgur.com/l5YTS1g.jpg

I love how the answer to the VR grind is to give an exp potion for lvls 1-50... I was honestly looking forward to exp pots that could be applied to VR and CP progression, I guess just one more ease of life item I wont be using, its starting to make me wonder who do they make these items for? And do people even buy them? I know they are dropping a lot of the blue books from the Crown Store my guess is no one buys them... prolly no one buys the food or pots either, so ZoS is going to have to start providing things in the Crown Store that people actually will buy or its going to fail... and I don't want to see that happen.

Cry_Wolfe

nimander99 wrote: »

http://i.imgur.com/l5YTS1g.jpg

I love how the answer to the VR grind is to give an exp potion for lvls 1-50... I was honestly looking forward to exp pots that could be applied to VR and CP progression, I guess just one more ease of life item I wont be using, its starting to make me wonder who do they make these items for? And do people even buy them? I know they are dropping a lot of the blue books from the Crown Store my guess is no one buys them... prolly no one buys the food or pots either, so ZoS is going to have to start providing things in the Crown Store that people actually will buy or its going to fail... and I don't want to see that happen.

On a character created just before the 10% xp buff, I hit vr2 halfway thru Coldharbour without doing all Group Dungeons and without completing Mages Guild and Fighters Guild questlines.

ZoS answer to vet grind is to give you only quest reward xp for half the game.

SeptimusDova

We need new content. New lands, new zones.

nimander99

Yep @Cry_Wolfe I hit VR1 before fighting Molag w/o ever getting in a single group, so, no instances, just quests and pub dungeons. EXP pots pre Vet Ranks is so unbelievably worthless it staggers the mind that anyone will ever use them... plus they alienate 99% percent of the purchasing community with those pots and are purely counting on nubs who know nothing of how the game works to use those pots.
and @SeptimusDova I couldn't agree more!

RavenSworn

I just think there are too many levels for veteran state. V5 should have been the max vr level.

Had a really good chat wirh a fellow player. Hardcore, min maxer, playing to be the best he can be in the game. Said that the 1-50 levels are more for discovery and learning the basics while veteran levels are for refining said build. 1-50 should have taken far longer than the current time taken (70-80hrs) to ensure the players have enough foundation for good builds and rotations.

I however, a casual player thought that is an amazing idea. With only the minor changes about the vr levels. Provide an alternate levelling path for veteran levels too so that while soloist can go for the story zones, adventure zones would provide a better group levelling path.

Just my two cents.

Saddiq

Isn't one of the main functions of 'v14' now a means to discriminate (negatively or not) for purposes of grouping? The difference between 'Veteran X' and 'Veteran X+1' in crafted armour and weapons is practically nil, so there's really no progression there. Some of the dropped sets that are rank specific do make a difference but that's not only a small part of the game, but temporary as ZOS will always tinker with end-game stats and eventually nerf whatever you're wearing in some form or another, forcing you to rebuild (which I'm quite happy with, myself).

But zone calls in Crag and in the Undaunted quest-giver zones are constantly full of 'v14 only', 'v12+ only' and slight variation calls for grouping. Despite the fact that now pretty much everyone has played with absolutely lousy v14s, and everyone [whose open-minded enough to try it] has played with fantastic v1s.

For my non-v14 characters, 'v14' essentially means "not allowed to do trials or vet COA yet, so don't even think of answering zone call", despite the fact that hundreds if not thousands of sub-v10/12/14s could do these tasks.

I realize 'v14' is a shorthand for weeding out the dreaded 'casuals' to avoid a dud dungeon run, but I've had probably the same amount of dud runs with v14s as I have with v5s/etc.

Anyways, that's the chief meaning of 'v14' from my perspective. It's short-hand for "Want to group but not with noobs".

nastuug

Samuel_Bantien wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Good read but I'd rather they go sooner than later since it was started and in phase 3 or 4 already

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it looks like there is a change of plans concerning phase 4. Notice the "Can only be consumed if you are not Veteran Ranked".

This can easily change before it goes live. Horse training/riding lessons/wtfever you want to call them are coming to Crown Store. No details on how they will work though. Point is, things can vastly differ from PTS to live.

Garwulf

Too many found out the boring nature nearly a year ago and abandoned ship. Only the 'mentally demented' have stayed, buoyed by ZoS's promises of more and exciting content. Instead after paying through the proverbial nose we got ...... Craglorn and Trials grinding and the "champion system' . If it wasn't for PVP I would have left a long time ago and ZoS has even worked hard at making PVP a dreadfful experience more akin to a poor Horse riding simulation than real fun.

Whatever the real solution is to continuing the fun of levelling after you get to VR1` , I do not think Zos has the mind or the will to do anything about it. Too much effort being spent on the CLOWN store.
.

Moonshadow66

I have 8 characters and all are Veterans, of which 2 are VR14 and done with all zones (Tamriel Heroes). I'm still levelling the others, and what I want SO MUCH is to have the alliance barrier removed so that we can travel to WHEREEVER we want. Let's say you're in Silver Daggerfall and want to go to Gold Auridon, just "travel to player" and.. there you are.

As much as I love the game, it's all done nicely, but I'd gladly skip certain zones now and just move to my favorites; also, to have a bit more of a challenge as I'm so far outlevelled that it's not that funny anymore (up to 3 ranks above zone level by now, and the gap still grows).

What you wrote in the OP, @Amsel_McKay , it would be awesome to have a Veteran skill line (I was thinking about it while reading your post^^).

Samuel_Bantien

nastuug wrote: »

Samuel_Bantien wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Good read but I'd rather they go sooner than later since it was started and in phase 3 or 4 already

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it looks like there is a change of plans concerning phase 4. Notice the "Can only be consumed if you are not Veteran Ranked".

This can easily change before it goes live. Horse training/riding lessons/wtfever you want to call them are coming to Crown Store. No details on how they will work though. Point is, things can vastly differ from PTS to live.

By the amount of "QQ" when this was originally stated and datamined before/shortly at the beginning of March 2015, here is the original.

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

[




[/i]

Thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/155872/exp-potions - March 8, 2015

The next was datamined almost 2 months later around April 27, after ZoS took in the consideration of all the "QQ" posts, discussions, P2W rants:

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/168091/zos-did-the-right-thing/p1 - April 27, 2015

ZoS listened to the P2W rants, and this is the updated potion. Veteran Ranks will persist even through console release - which will likely be their downfall, again. ZoS was praised when they revamped their EXP potion, but now it just flat out does not assist in the 1million EXP per rank grind. It should've persisted from Level 1 - V1 - V14 (stops at V14). In a recent ESO live episode - I forget which one, ZoS stated that phase 4 will come, eventually, no time, date, anything. They just don't know. Yes, the potions may change when they possibly hit the PTS, but no official announcement or information has been announced or datamined. But from the praises of the players on the forums, this potion is likely what we will get when it is released.

Amsel_McKay

nimander99 wrote: »

Yep @Cry_Wolfe I hit VR1 before fighting Molag w/o ever getting in a single group, so, no instances, just quests and pub dungeons. EXP pots pre Vet Ranks is so unbelievably worthless it staggers the mind that anyone will ever use them... plus they alienate 99% percent of the purchasing community with those pots and are purely counting on nubs who know nothing of how the game works to use those pots.
and @SeptimusDova I couldn't agree more!

VR2 and just finished Molag and have all the guild quests saved, no group content finished

Veridiano02

And again, talking of veteran lvls. So many people, and none of you still gets it.

I still remember TSW. Without levels, without a damn clue that actually tells you if you're progressing right or wrong. Just a 70+ skill wheel, 8 actives and 8 passives. Weapon resources, builders and consumers. There's not help. There's not a tutorial, not a damn clue of how some very important (critical and penetration skills, afflicted, etc.) things in the game works. I still remeber when I finished the solo content. No leveling zones. No gear. Noting. Just elite dungeons, and from there I get kicked because I don't know what the hell was "Breaching shot". And of course Nightmares... And the gatekeeper.

And here, you have that inmense place where you can level up veteran ranks, zones where even the loot gives you the chance to get some nice V5-V10 sets that can actually be very usefull in dungeons to make your role easier... And you're complaining about that? This game is the first one I see it don't let you abondoned when you reach high end (Veteran ranks), and gives you actually the double of solo content... And you're complaining about that. You didn't played manyMMO's, do you?

Veteran ranks are not leveling. Veteran ranks are a high end process. I make dungeons with my first VR1, veteran dungeons at my VR3, and being with trials at VR7. Of course, the first trial I succed was at VR12. At VR10 I begin Craglorn.

When you hit VR14, you're a veteran. And that means, you have reach the top. Just like When in TSW you won every single Nightmare dungeon and New York Raid. When you hit VR1 your leveling is over. That's the time to gather your friends, look for a guild, and go straight to PvE dungeons, veteran dungeons, some Craglorn... Or go to Cyrodiil. And PvP. Or both. And, when you're alone, you have that innmense space for you to explore, the 2/3 of the game. Quests to do, veteran bosses to imporve your builds and skills... More Skill points, high end veteran crafting materials to gather... And you're complaining. Nice.

Cry_Wolfe

@Tricky15_66b16_ESO ,
i've played quite a few MMO's. Many have tutorials (though some tutorials have been confusing - looking at you EvE), some introduce game mechanics slowly thru a couple of small tutorial maps (Guildwars, WoW, CoH), others don't have any tutorial at all (ESO)
I find it a little hard to believe that 1-50 content should be seen as a tutorial.

Vet ranks are an attempt at scaling back character progress to create an artificial End Game. Vet Ranks were expanded when players complained that there was not enough content at end game.

I kinda don't know where i am going with this =/.. I just wanted to not reciprocate your abrasive post and point out at the same time that you are kinda all over the place.... maybe someone less tipsy can do it better than me :P

Merlin13KAGL

OP, this is actually one of the first reasonable statements about the "why" I've read in a while.

You are correct, on the way to 50, there are always new skills and skill lines being unlocked. It's probably those we look forward to more than the level advancement itself.

It is even worse, already having a vet, as you do know what you're in for, and unless you're trying out a new class, you also probably already know how you are going to approach it (skill and gear-wise).

I don't think people would mind the 50+ if it varied somehow.

Same stories and same zones makes it less than intriguing after the first go'round.

MCMancub

I actually think the end game vertical progression in this game is pretty good, compared to many other MMOs. The problem is the perception that the community has as to when "end game" starts.

We often don't see the veteran levels as end game progression but rather just as more levels before we actually hit that level cap (VR14), but in reality, VR1 is the "level cap". I say that in quotes because you are technically still leveling and progressing your character, but once you finish the main story line and your faction's story, the world really opens up to you. Your character should be refined by this point (which is the OP's main concern), anything after is simply fine tuning or exploring different builds.

Once you finish that first faction and the main story you have so many paths available to you. You can continue to solo if you want (Cadwell's Silver/Gold), you can do group dungeons if you want (pledges), you can even challenge yourself with harder versions of group content (veteran pledges), and you can PvP (Cyrodiil). Once you become even stronger you can do Craglorn and Trials.

Granted, there are some issues that need to be resolved. PvP needs to be broken up into tiers to make it more fair, veteran pledges, trials, etc. need to be more challenging, experience needs to be balanced across the board (Cadwell's silver/gold are without a doubt the fastest ways to level apart from grinding), and gear needs a good overhaul.

But even with all the issues in place, I believe the end game system in ESO is very well designed. It just needs tuning.

GaldorP

I see three main reasons why people find veteran solo content so frustrating

1. No main story
   
   Background-wise you have no purpose, no motivation. The main story-line and the Fighters and Mages Guild quest lines are gone. These were the quests that made your character feel most like a hero who can actually achieve something truly heroic and can change or even save the world in the non-veteran zones.
   
   Many of the side-quests are actually sad stories that have no happy ending, only one or two terrible ones (depending on whether they offer you a choice or not). It can actually become quite depressing. Rare are the side-quests where you can do something good and really help someone, save a village without condeming the other half of the village to eternal torment or something similar
   
   I know it's supposed to be mature story-telling, but still, the hero (your character) has simply no involvement at all in most of the side-quests and there is no main story, nothing to look forward to, background-wise, anymore.
   
   Apart from the initial dialogue with Cadwell, nothing supports the idea that you are experiencing the same thing your enemies at war would experience. It's not an "understand your enemies" mission or a lesson that your own alliance isn't without fault either (seen through the eyes of your enemy). It's not a spy mission either. There simply is no purpose.
   
   
2. Slower progress
   
   The progress in numbers is suddenly up to 10 times slower when a character achieves veteran status. A single veteran rank takes ten times as long as a regular level did before. There's also fewer and fewer skills left to unlock and they take longer and longer to get to morphed rank 4. The biggest and most abrupt slow-down, however, is the sudden huge decrease in level speed. Obviously, less and slower changes can make the game more tedious.
   
   The Champion abilities are helpful here because they add another type of progress that is exclusive to veteran ranks, so there's a bit more change, but still, overall, progress in numbers is a lot faster for regular levels (there's more change going on and a lot more change in playstyle when there are still many new class abilities to learn).
   
   
3. False expectations
   
   Because of the low number of veteran ranks, people have false expectations. When you reach VR 1 you have less than 1/3 of the way behind you. If there were just 190 regular levels that would give people a much better idea of where they are when they reach lv 50.
   
   Since the main story-line finishes at around the time when a character reaches veteran rank 1 and since there is no believable or meaningful background story to Cadwell' Silver or Cadwell's Gold, many players also falsely assume that they will be able to participate in all endgame content as soon as their character reaches VR 1 which, of course, they cannot in the same way a player with a VR 14 character can (also, they will outlevel any item they receive as drop in just a few hours).

Gidorick

And NONE of those issues will be fixed by removing veteran ranks @GaldorP.

The false expectations is what I was addressing when I suggested they just convert reach VR rank to 2 regular levels. Award a skill point every 2 levels and an additional champion point every level.

It's more transparent.

GaldorP

Gidorick wrote: »

And NONE of those issues will be fixed by removing veteran ranks @GaldorP.

I think we can't know for sure since no details about how or when the veteran ranks will be removed have been published yet
Who knows, maybe there will be an entirely new main story with another Daedric prince