Today I realized what I don’t like about Vet levels:

Amsel_McKay

I was playing an alt today and got to level 46… and I felt finished with the game (more or less).

It was because I knew what my character was going to play like the rest of its long haul through the vet levels. I just finished all the class abilities to 50, all the armor skills to 50 and two weapon skills to 50. I realized that the customization of my character was more or less done, I have dragged two chars through to level VR14.

It just hit me that level 46 to VR14 I will not be really different in ability. Sure there are differences between a level 46 and VR14, but for me it’s not too different. Between the levels of 1-46 it seems I’m getting a new abilities every level that I get to test out and try something new and exciting. I get new gear every few levels that I can change my appearance and change my stats drastically.

Now I think about one level at VR1 to VR2. It’s 6(?) times as long to level between VR1-VR2 and you get what? I skill point, most likely you got 7-8 doing quests and skyshards anyway (and at this point if you are like me you don’t need any more and have many banked). So you get a few more HP. The difference in gear is a joke in vet levels. Now we get CPs but all they do is add a small percentage to stats and abilities nothing is real exciting, especially if you already opened 100+ CP and gave your alt that ability already. Nothing in CP really excites me.

I don’t feel more powerful than I did once I got my last class ability at level 46.

I remember way back when I played EQ in 1999 and it took months of grinding to get some of the levels (level 45…) it was because I wanted to get the new spell and ability that can be achieved when I level, if in EQ I got all my spells and abilities finished before I reached max level I think I would have not played it the same.

So I propose that if ESO is keeping veteran levels why not add skill lines that are ranked with the levels. So when you get VR1 you open a vet ability, and VR2 you get something and so on and so on. That will give me the drive to continue because right now I have nothing to look forward to and I’m only level 46…

NewBlacksmurf

Good read but I'd rather they go sooner than later since it was started and in phase 3 or 4 already

Rook_Master

Really the problem is just that they are insanely grindy. Particularly for people leveling alts. Anyone up for another session grinding overworld mobs in Cadwell's Gold? Yeah I'd rather go bash my head against the wall.

At least when the Craglorn grinds were a thing it wasn't so terrible. What I would give now for Shadow, Burials, or Upper Crag grind.

Brassmonkey

I agree, especially with the exclusive vet skill lines. One thing that bothers me is that we can't restart the mages guild or fighters guild quest line. Pretty much it makes it very tedious to level because you're not really given those fun quests in between. I'm really curious to know if the actual developers have played between VR1-14 with the given content. I mean I'm sure they'd see why a portion of the community is frustrated with this grind.

Amsel_McKay

Rook_Master wrote: »

Really the problem is just that they are insanely grindy. Particularly for people leveling alts. Anyone up for another session grinding overworld mobs in Cadwell's Gold? Yeah I'd rather go bash my head against the wall.

At least when the Craglorn grinds were a thing it wasn't so terrible. What I would give now for Shadow, Burials, or Upper Crag grind.

Yeah I know its grindy, but other games are just as grindy... but I had more reasons to grind in the other games. Why do I need to grind in ESO? What is so special about VR14 other then the title.

Amsel_McKay

I wanted to add that I have grinded in EQ to a crazy level... I once was in a raid in PoG for 46hours to get a single drop for my epic weapon. (because it was amazing and hard to get). I was the first cleric to win the BotB and get to level 50 which took grinding for months 8-12 hours a day - oh to have that much free time again.

So its not the grind of VR that I dislike, it was something else and I think I figured out what it was, Im done with my char when I get all the "spells and abilities".

Gidorick

DING:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/169671/remove-vet-raise-level-cap-concept/p1

NewBlacksmurf

Rook_Master wrote: »

Really the problem is just that they are insanely grindy. Particularly for people leveling alts. Anyone up for another session grinding overworld mobs in Cadwell's Gold? Yeah I'd rather go bash my head against the wall.

At least when the Craglorn grinds were a thing it wasn't so terrible. What I would give now for Shadow, Burials, or Upper Crag grind.

I disagree now due to having champion points. To have both seems redundant or at times confusing or pointless.
Maybe if the skills and stats came from the champion points and npc and gear also followed champion levels then life would be better ....maybe

Acrolas

Brassmonkey wrote: »

One thing that bothers me is that we can't restart the mages guild or fighters guild quest line.

But they're not a pre-requisite, either. You can hold off on the Fighters/Mages lines as long as you want.

The only two limitations I've seen is that the Prismatic Weapon only scales to VR12, and the daedra in Eyevea are only mid-40's instead of scaling to your level.

Amsel_McKay

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

Really the problem is just that they are insanely grindy. Particularly for people leveling alts. Anyone up for another session grinding overworld mobs in Cadwell's Gold? Yeah I'd rather go bash my head against the wall.

At least when the Craglorn grinds were a thing it wasn't so terrible. What I would give now for Shadow, Burials, or Upper Crag grind.

I disagree now due to having champion points. To have both seems redundant or at times confusing or pointless.
Maybe if the skills and stats came from the champion points and npc and gear also followed champion levels then life would be better ....maybe

The weird thing about champion points is that its account wide... My level 2 has 100+ CP right away... They would have to make CP char only if that was the case...

Amsel_McKay

Acrolas wrote: »

Brassmonkey wrote: »

One thing that bothers me is that we can't restart the mages guild or fighters guild quest line.

But they're not a pre-requisite, either. You can hold off on the Fighters/Mages lines as long as you want.

The only two limitations I've seen is that the Prismatic Weapon only scales to VR12, and the daedra in Eyevea are only mid-40's instead of scaling to your level.

Oh you got the VR12 version of the Prismatic Weapon! Nice I thought I was crazy to get the VR6 version

NewBlacksmurf

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

Really the problem is just that they are insanely grindy. Particularly for people leveling alts. Anyone up for another session grinding overworld mobs in Cadwell's Gold? Yeah I'd rather go bash my head against the wall.

At least when the Craglorn grinds were a thing it wasn't so terrible. What I would give now for Shadow, Burials, or Upper Crag grind.

I disagree now due to having champion points. To have both seems redundant or at times confusing or pointless.
Maybe if the skills and stats came from the champion points and npc and gear also followed champion levels then life would be better ....maybe

The weird thing about champion points is that its account wide... My level 2 has 100+ CP right away... They would have to make CP char only if that was the case...

I disagree as if this change applied then there was no reason to implement champion system.
They either need to roll VR system into the champion system as is or completely remove any and all VR system related progress and move 100% into the champion system as is

I'm hoping that the last phase utilizes the champion system without making people who have spent a lot of time leveling into VR levels feel like those efforts are all negated. Considering how the VR to champion level conversion happened and the mount training conversions applied, we should expect a similar change.

Heromofo

They did say they were removing veteran levels when i dont know.
But yeah veteran levels need to go sooner than later.

AlnilamE

Wow. You must be a very systematic player to have all your skills maxed at Level 46. Not even my V14 has everything maxed yet (skill lines, yes, but individual skills I'm still working on some I have overlooked).

My V7 is running around with a very messed up ability bar because she's leveling stuff, and so it my V5 (who is also leveling WW). It's a lot of fun.

Xendyn

Heromofo wrote: »

They did say they were removing veteran levels when i dont know.
But yeah veteran levels need to go sooner than later.

Agreed
Yesterday wouldn't be too soon lol.

Chuggernaut

I think the VR levels are still getting dropped before the end of the year. I hope they add more skill lines, or at least a way to unlock other existing skill lines. Like a post 50 quest chain to unlock another class's skill line. They could totally pad it out too so that you'd have to unlock the skill lines in a specific order.

NewBlacksmurf

Chuggernaut wrote: »

I think the VR levels are still getting dropped before the end of the year. I hope they add more skill lines, or at least a way to unlock other existing skill lines. Like a post 50 quest chain to unlock another class's skill line. They could totally pad it out too so that you'd have to unlock the skill lines in a specific order.

Isn't this what the champion system does? Asking from your point of view

Gidorick

Removing VET levels won't suddenly make you feel like you're progressing again.

Lynnessa

Seems to me like they're just levels with a different name; a skill point, access to gear, stat increase... isn't that the same thing that happens with a new level? If they did remove "veteran ranks" and replaced them with "levels" wouldn't it take even longer to get to the next level? Each veteran rank takes the same amount of xp. Levels have a logarithmic increase in xp required to reach the next one. Is that what you want?

kodo

imo the all idea is to play one character only,the reason to create diffeent chars is not for the same player,but for differnt ppl in the house where each one could play his char.i have only one char, currently at v3, ther's no way in the world i'll start a new char,no matter what. i think if u have just one,than you'll enjoy the game much more, cause no need to grind, u can do all the quests of all factions and really enjoy them , u have one char to concentrate on and develop, and never get bored of it.

Jando

This is what i write in every thread about veteran ranks, including my own, for the last 3-4 months:

The right approach here is not to remove VR's at all, but to reduce the xp to gain each rank to something like 150K. No other system in the game needs to be changed and they can do it in a hotfix. The 14 Veteran ranks essentially become 14 regular levels.

For those who still want a challenge in Cadwell Gold/Silver content: that content can be optimized for something like VR 15-20 and then they can "battle level" all characters up appropriately when entering those zones.

Done..problem solved. No reason it should be taking this long.

Dear Zos...Veteran Ranks are ruining your game...there's an easy fix...just do it!!

nastuug

Rook_Master wrote: »

Really the problem is just that they are insanely grindy. Particularly for people leveling alts. Anyone up for another session grinding overworld mobs in Cadwell's Gold? Yeah I'd rather go bash my head against the wall.

At least when the Craglorn grinds were a thing it wasn't so terrible. What I would give now for Shadow, Burials, or Upper Crag grind.

Hmm... I'm thinking Crown Store...

AlnilamE

kodo wrote: »

imo the all idea is to play one character only,the reason to create diffeent chars is not for the same player,but for differnt ppl in the house where each one could play his char.i have only one char, currently at v3, ther's no way in the world i'll start a new char,no matter what. i think if u have just one,than you'll enjoy the game much more, cause no need to grind, u can do all the quests of all factions and really enjoy them , u have one char to concentrate on and develop, and never get bored of it.

If that works for you, that's great. I have 7 characters and I enjoy them all (well, I'm re-learning to love my AD sorc), and I don't feel the need to grind or anything. They'll level at their own pace.

Amsel_McKay

AlnilamE wrote: »

Wow. You must be a very systematic player to have all your skills maxed at Level 46. Not even my V14 has everything maxed yet (skill lines, yes, but individual skills I'm still working on some I have overlooked).

My V7 is running around with a very messed up ability bar because she's leveling stuff, and so it my V5 (who is also leveling WW). It's a lot of fun.

I dont know it was very easy to level this time... I think that 10% Plus bonus is the difference. I am VR 2 now and just finished the main story line at VR2. I have two sets my skill level set that I have when I turn in quests and my fighting set which I use when playing... this way I level my skills faster... I also did not click on any book shelves until in my 40s so I would get meaningful skill ups.

SeptimusDova

Yes Crown Store

Limited Time sale: Soon we will be releasing an exciting new option to make up for lack of Content. A 1 hour XP buff potion ' 100 Percent XP Buff* the Craglornis 1.5 will grant you special prowess on the battlefield. Grind Craglorn Pre 1.6.

** This potion does not stack,Cannot be gifted or consumed in Cyrodiil.

Samuel_Bantien

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Good read but I'd rather they go sooner than later since it was started and in phase 3 or 4 already

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it looks like there is a change of plans concerning phase 4. Notice the "Can only be consumed if you are not Veteran Ranked".

Something I placed as a feedback in-game concerning Veteran Ranks:

"The Veteran Rank Experience System

The Veteran Rank Experience System is an abomination to players, new and old. When leveling from level 49 to 50 the experience required is fine due to a sense of progression, but when hitting level 50 (Veteran Rank 1) it requires 1,000,000 experience to level up once. This halts all sense of progression because players have become accustomed to the pushes as they level along throughout the quest line.

1,000,000 experience not only looks like it will take forever just to level up once - it does take forever to level up just once. Players are used to gaining several levels per zone, but the Veteran Rank Experience System only allows a level and even less when questing. There is several ways to allow players to have that sense of progression:

1.) Reduce the amount of experience required to level. Reducing the 1,000,000 experience per level to 400,000 allows players to feel like they gain a champion point per rank up and this allows them to feel like they are progressing through the world still. This also allows each Zone to grant them more than just 1 level if they do the quest lines.

2.) Allow the Enlightenment system to affect the players actual experience bar. The player will still have to earn 1,000,000 experience to level, but each day they will be able to get 400,000 Experience faster than usual due to the promised sense of not being left behind as advertised.

3.) Completely remove Veteran Ranks. Although this was promised in the 4th step of the 4 part plan to removing the Veteran Ranks, there is one thing that had caught my eye. The experience boost potion. The potion had stated that it would only work from 1-50 EXCLUDING VETERAN RANKS. This was a sign that Veteran Ranks may not be removed although it was promised. The community will see what happens in the future soon enough.

During the release of ESO, Veteran Ranks were the real population and community killer. We see that ZoS has learned from this but have not taken full action to killing the Veteran Ranks. As of now the Veteran Ranks feel more like a grind [rather than] than progression, and should be reevaluated with such ideas given above. Any of these ideas will save the game from killing players who do not feel like they have any sense of progression after hitting Veteran Rank 1. I urge ZoS to release one of these ideas into effect if Veteran Ranks are not removed next major update or even in an incrimental patch.

Thank you for taking your time to read this, I hope that Elder Scroll Online lives up to the potential it has."

Edit - Forgot my end quote.

Chuggernaut

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Chuggernaut wrote: »

I think the VR levels are still getting dropped before the end of the year. I hope they add more skill lines, or at least a way to unlock other existing skill lines. Like a post 50 quest chain to unlock another class's skill line. They could totally pad it out too so that you'd have to unlock the skill lines in a specific order.

Isn't this what the champion system does? Asking from your point of view

The champion system is a huge time sink, but only unlocks passives to the best of my knowledge (only 57 points in atm). Giving players the ability to work towards unlocking a skill line is different in that the end reward is you'd actually have some new active abilities to use. Another better option would be to unshelf the Spellcrafting update and get that into the game asap.

SeptimusDova

This one says "Orangina" grants offline level points.-Raz

Egonieser

I actually enjoy progressing and min/maxing my new pvp alt. I do 1 vr in 2 days, not even going out of my way to grind, killing all mobs between quest objectives is enough, many people just ride past and ignore them, if they didn't, they would notice that the progress isn't as slow as they think.

As a person who has played countless korean mmo's since early 2000's, this game is FAR from grindy, and i mean very far...

Gidorick

SeptimusDova wrote: »

This one says "Orangina" grants offline level points.-Raz

Awesome reference to the other thread.

AlnilamE

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Wow. You must be a very systematic player to have all your skills maxed at Level 46. Not even my V14 has everything maxed yet (skill lines, yes, but individual skills I'm still working on some I have overlooked).

My V7 is running around with a very messed up ability bar because she's leveling stuff, and so it my V5 (who is also leveling WW). It's a lot of fun.

I dont know it was very easy to level this time... I think that 10% Plus bonus is the difference. I am VR 2 now and just finished the main story line at VR2. I have two sets my skill level set that I have when I turn in quests and my fighting set which I use when playing... this way I level my skills faster... I also did not click on any book shelves until in my 40s so I would get meaningful skill ups.

Yeah, even before I had ESO plus, my sorc (who is now V7) hit V1 as soon as she got to The Rift. I guess I took her to too many Guild outings. With my Templar (who I was trying to get to V1 before 1.6 came out but was off by a few days) skipped pretty much all of Eastmarch because she was overleveled and then still hit V1 early into Coldharbour.

I think if you are able to play your VR characters while enlightened, earning Champion Points is a good way to break up Vet ranks into more manageable pieces if the amount of XP for a vet rank bothers you (it doesn't bother me, my toons will level eventually)