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Why is fear not blockable?
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RedTalon✭✭✭✭✭The Reason being is it only fears you, doesn't do damage and such, so if you want it to be blockable they would also have to add damage to it also so it does do something
Would that be a happy middle ground for people getting caught in fear when not blocking and suffering damage also, and if blocking you suffer minor damage from focusing so hard you got a nose bleed
/necros threadEdited by RedTalon on 18 May 2015 17:080 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭Is this seriously a thread?
I mean no offense but like any CC in the game if you manage your stamina you wont have this issue,
Have you ever noticed how If you fight a sorc (even as a staff user) you can like perma block? because all there damage is burst and delayed giving you time to recovery stamina but even though you are blocking it still hurts ALOT (which I feel balances the damage since out of all the classes its easiest to block a sorcs attacks and not be punished)
Nightblade have ALOT of quick attacks and fear to drain stamina/deal alot of damage (forcing people to use some kind of skill to win)
and about the whole "Fear is the only CC where if you run outta stamina your dead" Im pretty sure thats how it works with all CC.
and on TOP of this people want bashing to make somekind of return to PVP (bashing heavy attacks to stop unlimited resources)
Heres a few tips,
1. Not everyone needs this but most do, If your a magicka build make sure you have atleast enough stamina recovery to CC break every 4 secs (That way the CC issue isnt a problem)
2. Manage your stamina, Know what class your fighting and know when to block and when not to block heres a good example (Fighting a stamina build with uppercut, uppercut has a slight delay but also a knock back but if you just block cast at that moment you can get 2 attacks in the time frame of his 1 uppercut and not get knocked back, then they may realize they are losing the DPS race and go on defense thats your time to attack)
3. Learn how much your roll costs, blocking and CC breaking that can HELP ALOT, also dont CC break everything dragons leap is a very short CC and sometimes you dont need to CC break it.
4. if you dont care about everything I said above and you want want fear nerfed for casual play then im sorry, the game being bland isnt fun for everyone, seeing everyone have diffrent skill levels and builds are fun even if a build is FOTM doesnt mean that some people are better at it than others.Edited by Araxleon on 18 May 2015 18:213 -
milesrodneymcneely2_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think it should break on damage, but not be subject to block.
No matter HOW crazy your lore, shields and armor shouldn't work against psychic projections.
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Teargrants✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
...Except for every gap closer in the game? Or one of the plethora of major speed buffs + bow dodge roll + sprint for long distance pursuit?Emma_Eunjung wrote: »Blocking does not make you unkillable and sure as heck does not need a "counter".
How about attacking you from behind? Why can you block that? DKs are nearly impossible to kill when they are in heavy armor. They have a constant standard up, can self heal etc. The only reason they die sometimes is because of fear or one of the mage guild powers.
Blocking needs a counter and it has it. You know what you can do? You can make yourself immune to CC, it is rather simple to do. Dodge roll is even worse and needs to be "fixed".
also sorc bolt escap Need a Counter, but there isnt one.....
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~Teargrants YouTube~
┬┴┬┴┤(･_├┬┴┬┴1 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Okay, give up your shields, heals, and AoE roots for it.
wy do you even compare a cc with a self effect or root? with root you can still cast skill, block or do somthing else like boltescape/cloak awayEdited by BuggeX on 18 May 2015 20:25#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Teargrants wrote: »
...Except for every gap closer in the game? Or one of the plethora of major speed buffs + bow dodge roll + sprint for long distance pursuit?Emma_Eunjung wrote: »Blocking does not make you unkillable and sure as heck does not need a "counter".
How about attacking you from behind? Why can you block that? DKs are nearly impossible to kill when they are in heavy armor. They have a constant standard up, can self heal etc. The only reason they die sometimes is because of fear or one of the mage guild powers.
Blocking needs a counter and it has it. You know what you can do? You can make yourself immune to CC, it is rather simple to do. Dodge roll is even worse and needs to be "fixed".
also sorc bolt escap Need a Counter, but there isnt one.....
i dont know wath you do, but as sorc with shild and bolt you cant die, its impossibrrruuu to die as sorc with this 2 skills.Edited by BuggeX on 18 May 2015 20:26#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I gave up trying to be a caster in Cyrodil because of NB fear. We lack the stamina to last against a NB in Cyro.
I respec'd and went tank.PC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Okay, give up your shields, heals, and AoE roots for it.
wy do you even compare a cc with a self effect or root? with root you can still cast skill, block or do somthing else like boltescape/cloak away
Why do you compare CCs in a vacuum w/out considering the defensive capabilities of the classes that have lesser CCs compared to the NB?
Do you think that people are fooled by these attempts to isolate mechanics w/out even attempting to look at the bigger picture, balance-wise?
Because I am not.
Edited by Varicite on 18 May 2015 20:361 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Okay, give up your shields, heals, and AoE roots for it.
wy do you even compare a cc with a self effect or root? with root you can still cast skill, block or do somthing else like boltescape/cloak away
Why do you compare CCs in a vacuum w/out considering the defensive capabilities of the classes that have lesser CCs compared to the NB?
Do you think that people are fooled by these attempts to isolate mechanics w/out even attempting to look at the bigger picture, balance-wise?
Because I am not.
i guess you dont understand, as nb you have still access to heal(alliance rank) as nb you still have access to ground cc (mage guild) do i have or any class else exept nb have access to fear? no? you even have access to res buffs. *** you have access to every single advanced other class has. but do we have a fear?
brocken mechanic sryEdited by BuggeX on 18 May 2015 20:49#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Okay, give up your shields, heals, and AoE roots for it.
wy do you even compare a cc with a self effect or root? with root you can still cast skill, block or do somthing else like boltescape/cloak away
Why do you compare CCs in a vacuum w/out considering the defensive capabilities of the classes that have lesser CCs compared to the NB?
Do you think that people are fooled by these attempts to isolate mechanics w/out even attempting to look at the bigger picture, balance-wise?
Because I am not.
i guess you dont understand, as nb you have still access to heal(alliance rank) as nb you still have access to ground cc (mage guild) do i have or any class else exept nb have access to fear? no?
brocken mechanic sry
Oh, those are things that other classes don't have access to ON TOP of their class defenses?
News to me.
NBs now also have access to class-based shields, large in-combat heals, and AoE soft CCs like roots that warrants them having a CC that is in line w/ other classes that have access to these things?
No? Then you aren't bringing anything to the table right now.
PS) Volcanic Rune? You are seriously comparing this to Talons and Restraining Prison? lol.
Edited by Varicite on 18 May 2015 20:511 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Okay, give up your shields, heals, and AoE roots for it.
wy do you even compare a cc with a self effect or root? with root you can still cast skill, block or do somthing else like boltescape/cloak away
Why do you compare CCs in a vacuum w/out considering the defensive capabilities of the classes that have lesser CCs compared to the NB?
Do you think that people are fooled by these attempts to isolate mechanics w/out even attempting to look at the bigger picture, balance-wise?
Because I am not.
i guess you dont understand, as nb you have still access to heal(alliance rank) as nb you still have access to ground cc (mage guild) do i have or any class else exept nb have access to fear? no?
brocken mechanic sry
Every class has access to even better version of Fear (one that doesn't trigger global cooldown, meaning no amount of reaction speed will save you if you get hit).
This skill is called "Roar", and is available to everyone who becomes a werewolf.
Regardless, no class except sorc has access to BoL either, and no class except NB has access to the (somewhat bugged) cloak ability. Nor does any class except Templars get a channeled ranged execute that hits cloaked/roll dodging targets. Oh, and DK is the only class that can reflect multiple projectiles with a single flap flap.
And this is all fine.
These mechanics are in place to make each class different.
If every class had access to the exact same mechanics, the game would become even more undiverse & boring.1 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Okay, give up your shields, heals, and AoE roots for it.
wy do you even compare a cc with a self effect or root? with root you can still cast skill, block or do somthing else like boltescape/cloak away
Why do you compare CCs in a vacuum w/out considering the defensive capabilities of the classes that have lesser CCs compared to the NB?
Do you think that people are fooled by these attempts to isolate mechanics w/out even attempting to look at the bigger picture, balance-wise?
Because I am not.
i guess you dont understand, as nb you have still access to heal(alliance rank) as nb you still have access to ground cc (mage guild) do i have or any class else exept nb have access to fear? no?
brocken mechanic sry
Oh, those are things that other classes don't have access to ON TOP of their class defenses?
News to me.
NBs now also have access to class-based shields, large in-combat heals, and AoE soft CCs like roots that warrants them having a CC that is in line w/ other classes that have access to these things?
No? Then you aren't bringing anything to the table right now.
i guess you dont know,
but def buff doesnt stack.
i, as dk, cant stack hardened armor and immovable, beucause both grant major buffs? so wath. wath help me a buff from public skill lines if they dont stack? same as the def buff from sorc, dont know if temp has the same.Edited by BuggeX on 18 May 2015 20:54#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Nightblades have literally no other CC in the game. It's really not that OP and all it takes is a break free.RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »I would just leave Fear as is with one exception.
Fear Breaks on Damage
It shouldn't be blockable or anything, it should just simply break on damage. Do that, and the skill is good while still being very powerful and unblockable...making it blockable would defeat its purpose, making it break on damage would make it fair and balanced.
:trollin:0 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Okay, give up your shields, heals, and AoE roots for it.
wy do you even compare a cc with a self effect or root? with root you can still cast skill, block or do somthing else like boltescape/cloak away
Why do you compare CCs in a vacuum w/out considering the defensive capabilities of the classes that have lesser CCs compared to the NB?
Do you think that people are fooled by these attempts to isolate mechanics w/out even attempting to look at the bigger picture, balance-wise?
Because I am not.
i guess you dont understand, as nb you have still access to heal(alliance rank) as nb you still have access to ground cc (mage guild) do i have or any class else exept nb have access to fear? no?
brocken mechanic sry
Every class has access to even better version of Fear (one that doesn't trigger global cooldown, meaning no amount of reaction speed will save you if you get hit).
This skill is called "Roar", and is available to everyone who becomes a werewolf.
Regardless, no class except sorc has access to BoL either, and no class except NB has access to the (somewhat bugged) cloak ability. Nor does any class except Templars get a channeled ranged execute that hits cloaked/roll dodging targets. Oh, and DK is the only class that can reflect multiple projectiles with a single flap flap.
And this is all fine.
These mechanics are in place to make each class different.
If every class had access to the exact same mechanics, the game would become even more undiverse & boring.
i agree with this yes, there should be a spell wich dont have a better version, dont compare ww with somthing else, atm ww is buggy as ***, dont grand you additional stamina regen and last jsut 1 fight long
jesus beam? well just use soul assoult instead, no execude but 100% more dmg
Flap flap? well there is a stamina based skill in s/s , last 20sec and refelct 1 spell, imho better
bolt? agree also a broken mechanic either remove shild stacking or remove 0 cd bolt.
so wath is left? nb with uniq cloak and uniq cc. both skill are uniq for nb, just this make either cloak or fear op#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Okay, give up your shields, heals, and AoE roots for it.
wy do you even compare a cc with a self effect or root? with root you can still cast skill, block or do somthing else like boltescape/cloak away
Why do you compare CCs in a vacuum w/out considering the defensive capabilities of the classes that have lesser CCs compared to the NB?
Do you think that people are fooled by these attempts to isolate mechanics w/out even attempting to look at the bigger picture, balance-wise?
Because I am not.
i guess you dont understand, as nb you have still access to heal(alliance rank) as nb you still have access to ground cc (mage guild) do i have or any class else exept nb have access to fear? no?
brocken mechanic sry
Oh, those are things that other classes don't have access to ON TOP of their class defenses?
News to me.
NBs now also have access to class-based shields, large in-combat heals, and AoE soft CCs like roots that warrants them having a CC that is in line w/ other classes that have access to these things?
No? Then you aren't bringing anything to the table right now.
i guess you dont know,
but def buff doesnt stack.
i, as dk, cant stack hardened armor and immovable, beucause both grant major buffs? so wath. wath help me a buff from public skill lines if they dont stack? same as the def buff from sorc, dont know if temp has the same.
I don't know if you're trolling or actually think that I'm stupid enough to care about anything that you just wrote... But I'll humor you for just a moment.
You, as a DK, can pop Igneous Shield for instant breathing room, and can even pop Dragon's Blood right after it for a 40% heal or Flame Lash them for more instant in-combat healing. You can also pop Talons to either try to trap your opponents near you or keep them stuck to the ground as you gain a bit of distance. On top of this, you can also instantly hit someone at range w/ an unblockable CC. And hey, you can also protect yourself by reflecting ALL types of projectiles. And have an instant-cast knockdown.
A Sorc can BoL to absorb all incoming magicka-based projectiles while popping Hardened Ward to absorb ALL damage while it's active. They can also root all enemies in a path in front of them to gain breathing room for a moment, or make them waste stamina rolling out. On top of this, they can also buff themself w/ an instant CC that renders attackers useless unless they waste stamina on a CC break w/ Defensive Rune. And please do not let me forget to mention Daedric Minefield, one of the best defensive zoning tools in the game.
As a Templar, you can pop Blazing Shield for some respite, or Radiant Ward for an even stronger, cheaper shield that protects you against all damage. You can also Eclipse enemies to reflect back ALL single-target spells and have access to TWO different healing spells, as well as a self-cleanse that heals. This is, of course, on top of a ranged knockback AND long-lasting ranged stun.
I will be fair here, unlike MOST of the posters in this thread, and look at the WHOLE picture. NBs also have some pretty great strengths.
They have access to Dark Cloak, which is very easily countered by potions, but also acts as a self-cleanse for DoTs and an extremely short temporary invulnerability to single-target spells. They also have Shadow Image, which allows magicka builds to teleport a short distance away from time to time, so long as they have a target they are actively attacking. NB also has access to the only situational melee-range stun in the game w/ the Veiled Strike line, though every other class' stuns do not require anything but a target. And then they have Fear, the best CC in the game.
They have Fear because, as I have already said many times, they have the lowest defenses of any of the classes, which generally necessitates a playstyle centered around offense and disabling their opponents as opposed to absorbing, reflecting, or healing away damage.
But yes, please do keep talking about a worthless armor buff as though that has any bearing on the conversation.
See, I have actually played ALL of the classes (except for Templar) for over a year now and know what they are bringing to the table pretty well. I have a pretty good understanding of their strengths and weaknesses, and maybe that gives me a unique perspective of how the intended balance is supposed to work.
Now, I am absolutely NOT saying that all of the classes are balanced, but I do see why Fear exists as it does, which many on these forums are either simply blind to, or deliberately ignorant toward in their self-serving efforts.
Edited by Varicite on 18 May 2015 21:272 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Gargragrond wrote: »These are my stats on only one character; counter was reset at the onset of 1.6:
Could look at this chart and say that Sorcerer's have the most OP damage and Nightblades die the most easily, but it is not really that simple.
What really has to be considered is my character's build and how that impacts my stats.
My character has decent sustain and self-healing, excellent Stamina management (after CC breaking, my Stamina bar refills before my immunity wears off), low burst capabilities (difficulty getting through Sorcerer's shields or Templar heals),
My character also now runs Detection potions 100% of the time (it was initially closer to 50% of the time, but the prevalence of Nightblades in Cyrodiil at the moment had me invest in a Potion Cooldown reduction glyph and a policy of maintaining it 100% of the time -- roughly 70 of my deaths to Nightblades are from before the swap to 100% uptime).
Do not think that Sorcerer has both the best survivability and the best damage just due to my own stats -- am concretely aware that Sorcerer is the most difficult class for my build to counter, particularly with my complete lack of Nirnhoned pieces.
Detect potions certainly help to find hiding people, but that's a separate issue. I'm mostly interested in how to survive the sure death by the fear+burst so that I can try to fight back. Main nuisance with the cloak anyway is that it negates all my class damagers (I play a dk, so that's mostly dots), if they want to escape, they are free to go - same with sorcs who I can never catch.
But those are very impressive k/d ratios, several orders better than mine (except against other dks), but I'm not sure if I qualify even average nowadays. Which class you play yourself btw?
All of them.Relevant to this thread though is my Templar which has been my primary focus since shortly after 1.6 dropped.
Spent the past months playing as a Destruction Staff mage, but now working on a Stamina build while Nirnhoned has Magicka underperforming.
Wanting to make use of Werewolf as my Ultimate on the new build for the huge burst capacity (discovered that roll dodging as a Werewolf does indeed activate the bonus from Way of Air set meaning my damage and healing from Hirine's Bounty can be buffed significantly).
Fear becoming blockable is a matter of concern to me because my goal is to use Roar to break through permablockers and synergize it with Howl for the ridiculous damage capacity -- since Werewolf is such short duration in PvP where feeding constantly is not an option, cannot afford to have someone stop my damage in its tracks.
My Nightblade does not even use Fear and personally would have no objections with the skill being completely removed from the class and replaced with a damage shield or burst heal.Joy_Division wrote: »Gargragrond wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »For every plus NBs have there are things that other classs can do to us that are as bad... I think people just get more angry with being ganked half way to a destination and so say NBs are too strong when the reality is that you probably get killed much more by other classes but as it is in full on combat you don't notice it so kuch and the rage is less as a result.
Well, for that we have kill counter etc. Mine shows that NBs score around 44% kills on me while for example DKs are below 10%, and I don't think the population numbers are the only reason. ...
These are my stats on only one character; counter was reset at the onset of 1.6:
Could look at this chart and say that Sorcerer's have the most OP damage and Nightblades die the most easily, but it is not really that simple.
What really has to be considered is my character's build and how that impacts my stats.
My character has decent sustain and self-healing, excellent Stamina management (after CC breaking, my Stamina bar refills before my immunity wears off), low burst capabilities (difficulty getting through Sorcerer's shields or Templar heals),
My character also now runs Detection potions 100% of the time (it was initially closer to 50% of the time, but the prevalence of Nightblades in Cyrodiil at the moment had me invest in a Potion Cooldown reduction glyph and a policy of maintaining it 100% of the time -- roughly 70 of my deaths to Nightblades are from before the swap to 100% uptime).
Do not think that Sorcerer has both the best survivability and the best damage just due to my own stats -- am concretely aware that Sorcerer is the most difficult class for my build to counter, particularly with my complete lack of Nirnhoned pieces.
Yeah, Jesus Beam OP
Do not actually use Jesus Beam in my build due to disdain for channels. QQ
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭i played just dk, mby a bit templar.
1. igneous shild wich give you 3600 dmg shild ? ohh wow, bone shild give me 26% max hp shild (8000 on my hp)
2. dragon blood? if im under 20% hp it heals me 3000k hp, bretty op..rly vigor heals me 4000k, and its even aoe heal for my grp
3. yea right, i have tallns, but sill you can *** use every single spell you own while you are cced with my talons you even can cloak away. tallons in pvp is in most case uselles on dk.
4. what else do we have? chain, oh w8 silver bolt morph has the same....
5. obsidian shard? does this rly get used? btw silver bolt knock down 70% all player. vamp and ***
and even proc with 10k not 3k like our shard.
sorc yes is also broken, but this is a other story.
temp, temp are like dks, doesnt have rly uniq class skills, everhting can be done by other skill lines.
the point about potions and cloak, yes they exist, but does rly someone has space to use a "uselles" poition to counter cloak? im full tank, buffed 30/30k res/armor 32k hp, 16k stamina. 12k magica. 1k res each.
if i fight vs a nb, (i dont die),even if i perma blocking, i have to pull all cds out even poitions to survive. the brust, attackspead, reg, cloak , fear combo is insane at a nb. you cant dmg them they just burst you to a defensiv and try to source you out.
they can doge pemranetly
and after all, if everthing fail, they cloak away, or fear + burst you down.
i dont want dks get buffed, dks are fine.
but there need to be some thing vs nb, and atm there isnt a thing can be done vs them. with no class.
if 2 same geared and skilled player go 1v1 ,nb vs something else, nb wins
btw, i dont say dk needs a buff, dk is just fine. But other classes nedd some reworkEdited by BuggeX on 18 May 2015 21:58#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots2 -
theweakminded✭✭✭olemanwinter wrote: »BugCollector wrote: »It's not like I'm afraid, lol.
Yeah, I hate that too, and then the NB's all *** that DK is OP! What a joke!
Why is Fossilize not blockable? It's not like I'm a fossil.
You can break fossilize with a bash. You can't break fear with a bash.
Yes you can.2 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Okay, give up your shields, heals, and AoE roots for it.
wy do you even compare a cc with a self effect or root? with root you can still cast skill, block or do somthing else like boltescape/cloak away
Why do you compare CCs in a vacuum w/out considering the defensive capabilities of the classes that have lesser CCs compared to the NB?
Do you think that people are fooled by these attempts to isolate mechanics w/out even attempting to look at the bigger picture, balance-wise?
Because I am not.
i guess you dont understand, as nb you have still access to heal(alliance rank) as nb you still have access to ground cc (mage guild) do i have or any class else exept nb have access to fear? no?
brocken mechanic sry
Oh, those are things that other classes don't have access to ON TOP of their class defenses?
News to me.
NBs now also have access to class-based shields, large in-combat heals, and AoE soft CCs like roots that warrants them having a CC that is in line w/ other classes that have access to these things?
No? Then you aren't bringing anything to the table right now.
i guess you dont know,
but def buff doesnt stack.
i, as dk, cant stack hardened armor and immovable, beucause both grant major buffs? so wath. wath help me a buff from public skill lines if they dont stack? same as the def buff from sorc, dont know if temp has the same.
I don't know if you're trolling or actually think that I'm stupid enough to care about anything that you just wrote... But I'll humor you for just a moment.
You, as a DK, can pop Igneous Shield for instant breathing room, and can even pop Dragon's Blood right after it for a 40% heal or Flame Lash them for more instant in-combat healing. You can also pop Talons to either try to trap your opponents near you or keep them stuck to the ground as you gain a bit of distance. On top of this, you can also instantly hit someone at range w/ an unblockable CC. And hey, you can also protect yourself by reflecting ALL types of projectiles. And have an instant-cast knockdown.
A Sorc can BoL to absorb all incoming magicka-based projectiles while popping Hardened Ward to absorb ALL damage while it's active. They can also root all enemies in a path in front of them to gain breathing room for a moment, or make them waste stamina rolling out. On top of this, they can also buff themself w/ an instant CC that renders attackers useless unless they waste stamina on a CC break w/ Defensive Rune. And please do not let me forget to mention Daedric Minefield, one of the best defensive zoning tools in the game.
As a Templar, you can pop Blazing Shield for some respite, or Radiant Ward for an even stronger, cheaper shield that protects you against all damage. You can also Eclipse enemies to reflect back ALL single-target spells and have access to TWO different healing spells, as well as a self-cleanse that heals. This is, of course, on top of a ranged knockback AND long-lasting ranged stun.
I will be fair here, unlike MOST of the posters in this thread, and look at the WHOLE picture. NBs also have some pretty great strengths.
They have access to Dark Cloak, which is very easily countered by potions, but also acts as a self-cleanse for DoTs and an extremely short temporary invulnerability to single-target spells. They also have Shadow Image, which allows magicka builds to teleport a short distance away from time to time, so long as they have a target they are actively attacking. NB also has access to the only situational melee-range stun in the game w/ the Veiled Strike line, though every other class' stuns do not require anything but a target. And then they have Fear, the best CC in the game.
They have Fear because, as I have already said many times, they have the lowest defenses of any of the classes, which generally necessitates a playstyle centered around offense and disabling their opponents as opposed to absorbing, reflecting, or healing away damage.
But yes, please do keep talking about a worthless armor buff as though that has any bearing on the conversation.
See, I have actually played ALL of the classes (except for Templar) for over a year now and know what they are bringing to the table pretty well. I have a pretty good understanding of their strengths and weaknesses, and maybe that gives me a unique perspective of how the intended balance is supposed to work.
Now, I am absolutely NOT saying that all of the classes are balanced, but I do see why Fear exists as it does, which many on these forums are either simply blind to, or deliberately ignorant toward in their self-serving efforts.
Most of the things that you wrote are right but only in 1vs1 or 1vs2 scenario. Have you pvp recently in Cyrodill at prime time. If you are not either Sorc or NB you cannot play solo. 98% of the solo players are these 2 classes. Templars and DKs can pop a shield and heal to make some breathing room. In XvsX it cannot happen. Because Sorc and NBs jsut escape from the front line and only templars and DKs stay there for 30 sec more before they drop and gives the time for the classes with mobility to escape. The current meta is: burst your opponet if you cannot then just escape. Where is the problem? All burst and escape abilities scale with the same resource. Mana for BE + Magicka Damage or Cloack + Magicka Damage or Stamina for Roll dodge + Stamina Damage. The game is so badly balanced right and the only thing which somehow hides it is the big zergs. When you are in a group and the size of your group is bigger than you dont see so much the unbalance. Damage should scale only form spell or weapon power. Resources should be only for skills. Then you should thing what you need.
Now on topic. The great advantage on fear is that it doesn't break on damage. In big battles you are either not able to break it because of the bug or you don't see the animation because you are rooted. If it breaks on damage it wont be so OP and it will be a normal skill.
Because I can!0 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Okay, give up your shields, heals, and AoE roots for it.
wy do you even compare a cc with a self effect or root? with root you can still cast skill, block or do somthing else like boltescape/cloak away
Why do you compare CCs in a vacuum w/out considering the defensive capabilities of the classes that have lesser CCs compared to the NB?
Do you think that people are fooled by these attempts to isolate mechanics w/out even attempting to look at the bigger picture, balance-wise?
Because I am not.
i guess you dont understand, as nb you have still access to heal(alliance rank) as nb you still have access to ground cc (mage guild) do i have or any class else exept nb have access to fear? no?
brocken mechanic sry
Oh, those are things that other classes don't have access to ON TOP of their class defenses?
News to me.
NBs now also have access to class-based shields, large in-combat heals, and AoE soft CCs like roots that warrants them having a CC that is in line w/ other classes that have access to these things?
No? Then you aren't bringing anything to the table right now.
i guess you dont know,
but def buff doesnt stack.
i, as dk, cant stack hardened armor and immovable, beucause both grant major buffs? so wath. wath help me a buff from public skill lines if they dont stack? same as the def buff from sorc, dont know if temp has the same.
I don't know if you're trolling or actually think that I'm stupid enough to care about anything that you just wrote... But I'll humor you for just a moment.
You, as a DK, can pop Igneous Shield for instant breathing room, and can even pop Dragon's Blood right after it for a 40% heal or Flame Lash them for more instant in-combat healing. You can also pop Talons to either try to trap your opponents near you or keep them stuck to the ground as you gain a bit of distance. On top of this, you can also instantly hit someone at range w/ an unblockable CC. And hey, you can also protect yourself by reflecting ALL types of projectiles. And have an instant-cast knockdown.
A Sorc can BoL to absorb all incoming magicka-based projectiles while popping Hardened Ward to absorb ALL damage while it's active. They can also root all enemies in a path in front of them to gain breathing room for a moment, or make them waste stamina rolling out. On top of this, they can also buff themself w/ an instant CC that renders attackers useless unless they waste stamina on a CC break w/ Defensive Rune. And please do not let me forget to mention Daedric Minefield, one of the best defensive zoning tools in the game.
As a Templar, you can pop Blazing Shield for some respite, or Radiant Ward for an even stronger, cheaper shield that protects you against all damage. You can also Eclipse enemies to reflect back ALL single-target spells and have access to TWO different healing spells, as well as a self-cleanse that heals. This is, of course, on top of a ranged knockback AND long-lasting ranged stun.
I will be fair here, unlike MOST of the posters in this thread, and look at the WHOLE picture. NBs also have some pretty great strengths.
They have access to Dark Cloak, which is very easily countered by potions, but also acts as a self-cleanse for DoTs and an extremely short temporary invulnerability to single-target spells. They also have Shadow Image, which allows magicka builds to teleport a short distance away from time to time, so long as they have a target they are actively attacking. NB also has access to the only situational melee-range stun in the game w/ the Veiled Strike line, though every other class' stuns do not require anything but a target. And then they have Fear, the best CC in the game.
They have Fear because, as I have already said many times, they have the lowest defenses of any of the classes, which generally necessitates a playstyle centered around offense and disabling their opponents as opposed to absorbing, reflecting, or healing away damage.
But yes, please do keep talking about a worthless armor buff as though that has any bearing on the conversation.
See, I have actually played ALL of the classes (except for Templar) for over a year now and know what they are bringing to the table pretty well. I have a pretty good understanding of their strengths and weaknesses, and maybe that gives me a unique perspective of how the intended balance is supposed to work.
Now, I am absolutely NOT saying that all of the classes are balanced, but I do see why Fear exists as it does, which many on these forums are either simply blind to, or deliberately ignorant toward in their self-serving efforts.
Most of the things that you wrote are right but only in 1vs1 or 1vs2 scenario. Have you pvp recently in Cyrodill at prime time. If you are not either Sorc or NB you cannot play solo. 98% of the solo players are these 2 classes. Templars and DKs can pop a shield and heal to make some breathing room. In XvsX it cannot happen. Because Sorc and NBs jsut escape from the front line and only templars and DKs stay there for 30 sec more before they drop and gives the time for the classes with mobility to escape. The current meta is: burst your opponet if you cannot then just escape. Where is the problem? All burst and escape abilities scale with the same resource. Mana for BE + Magicka Damage or Cloack + Magicka Damage or Stamina for Roll dodge + Stamina Damage. The game is so badly balanced right and the only thing which somehow hides it is the big zergs. When you are in a group and the size of your group is bigger than you dont see so much the unbalance. Damage should scale only form spell or weapon power. Resources should be only for skills. Then you should thing what you need.
Now on topic. The great advantage on fear is that it doesn't break on damage. In big battles you are either not able to break it because of the bug or you don't see the animation because you are rooted. If it breaks on damage it wont be so OP and it will be a normal skill.
nice meta, wath are then doing dks and temps wich dont *** can escape? and did you try to brust a sorce/temp/nb down? nice try to explain the fear....
and yes i pvp just in prime,but allready worte bomzerg is not my dingEdited by BuggeX on 18 May 2015 22:19#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Okay, give up your shields, heals, and AoE roots for it.
wy do you even compare a cc with a self effect or root? with root you can still cast skill, block or do somthing else like boltescape/cloak away
Why do you compare CCs in a vacuum w/out considering the defensive capabilities of the classes that have lesser CCs compared to the NB?
Do you think that people are fooled by these attempts to isolate mechanics w/out even attempting to look at the bigger picture, balance-wise?
Because I am not.
i guess you dont understand, as nb you have still access to heal(alliance rank) as nb you still have access to ground cc (mage guild) do i have or any class else exept nb have access to fear? no?
brocken mechanic sry
Oh, those are things that other classes don't have access to ON TOP of their class defenses?
News to me.
NBs now also have access to class-based shields, large in-combat heals, and AoE soft CCs like roots that warrants them having a CC that is in line w/ other classes that have access to these things?
No? Then you aren't bringing anything to the table right now.
i guess you dont know,
but def buff doesnt stack.
i, as dk, cant stack hardened armor and immovable, beucause both grant major buffs? so wath. wath help me a buff from public skill lines if they dont stack? same as the def buff from sorc, dont know if temp has the same.
I don't know if you're trolling or actually think that I'm stupid enough to care about anything that you just wrote... But I'll humor you for just a moment.
You, as a DK, can pop Igneous Shield for instant breathing room, and can even pop Dragon's Blood right after it for a 40% heal or Flame Lash them for more instant in-combat healing. You can also pop Talons to either try to trap your opponents near you or keep them stuck to the ground as you gain a bit of distance. On top of this, you can also instantly hit someone at range w/ an unblockable CC. And hey, you can also protect yourself by reflecting ALL types of projectiles. And have an instant-cast knockdown.
A Sorc can BoL to absorb all incoming magicka-based projectiles while popping Hardened Ward to absorb ALL damage while it's active. They can also root all enemies in a path in front of them to gain breathing room for a moment, or make them waste stamina rolling out. On top of this, they can also buff themself w/ an instant CC that renders attackers useless unless they waste stamina on a CC break w/ Defensive Rune. And please do not let me forget to mention Daedric Minefield, one of the best defensive zoning tools in the game.
As a Templar, you can pop Blazing Shield for some respite, or Radiant Ward for an even stronger, cheaper shield that protects you against all damage. You can also Eclipse enemies to reflect back ALL single-target spells and have access to TWO different healing spells, as well as a self-cleanse that heals. This is, of course, on top of a ranged knockback AND long-lasting ranged stun.
I will be fair here, unlike MOST of the posters in this thread, and look at the WHOLE picture. NBs also have some pretty great strengths.
They have access to Dark Cloak, which is very easily countered by potions, but also acts as a self-cleanse for DoTs and an extremely short temporary invulnerability to single-target spells. They also have Shadow Image, which allows magicka builds to teleport a short distance away from time to time, so long as they have a target they are actively attacking. NB also has access to the only situational melee-range stun in the game w/ the Veiled Strike line, though every other class' stuns do not require anything but a target. And then they have Fear, the best CC in the game.
They have Fear because, as I have already said many times, they have the lowest defenses of any of the classes, which generally necessitates a playstyle centered around offense and disabling their opponents as opposed to absorbing, reflecting, or healing away damage.
But yes, please do keep talking about a worthless armor buff as though that has any bearing on the conversation.
See, I have actually played ALL of the classes (except for Templar) for over a year now and know what they are bringing to the table pretty well. I have a pretty good understanding of their strengths and weaknesses, and maybe that gives me a unique perspective of how the intended balance is supposed to work.
Now, I am absolutely NOT saying that all of the classes are balanced, but I do see why Fear exists as it does, which many on these forums are either simply blind to, or deliberately ignorant toward in their self-serving efforts.
Most of the things that you wrote are right but only in 1vs1 or 1vs2 scenario. Have you pvp recently in Cyrodill at prime time. If you are not either Sorc or NB you cannot play solo. 98% of the solo players are these 2 classes. Templars and DKs can pop a shield and heal to make some breathing room. In XvsX it cannot happen. Because Sorc and NBs jsut escape from the front line and only templars and DKs stay there for 30 sec more before they drop and gives the time for the classes with mobility to escape. The current meta is: burst your opponet if you cannot then just escape. Where is the problem? All burst and escape abilities scale with the same resource. Mana for BE + Magicka Damage or Cloack + Magicka Damage or Stamina for Roll dodge + Stamina Damage. The game is so badly balanced right and the only thing which somehow hides it is the big zergs. When you are in a group and the size of your group is bigger than you dont see so much the unbalance. Damage should scale only form spell or weapon power. Resources should be only for skills. Then you should thing what you need.
Now on topic. The great advantage on fear is that it doesn't break on damage. In big battles you are either not able to break it because of the bug or you don't see the animation because you are rooted. If it breaks on damage it wont be so OP and it will be a normal skill.
I agree w/ most of what you have said, but I think the difference in our opinions is that I feel that the true culprit is the extremely low TTKs that have been present since 1.6.
I also believe that the low TTK is what makes NBs feel over the top currently, as defensive play has been thrown out of the window almost completely for playstyles that favor burst and mobility.
Burst and mobility favor Sorcs and NBs above the other 2 classes, and that is why you see these 2 classes reigning supreme in Cyrodiil atm.0 -
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree w/ most of what you have said, but I think the difference in our opinions is that I feel that the true culprit is the extremely low TTKs that have been present since 1.6.
I also believe that the low TTK is what makes NBs feel over the top currently, as defensive play has been thrown out of the window almost completely for playstyles that favor burst and mobility.
Burst and mobility favor Sorcs and NBs above the other 2 classes, and that is why you see these 2 classes reigning supreme in Cyrodiil atm.
I can totally agree about that. This is why Fear feels so broken, by the time you manage to break it and get heal/shield of, your already dead because you took 25k dmg over 1.2 second. TTK is nuts.
I cant out-heal or shield for *** on my templar in 1.6. I'm dead mid-animation, when there's more than 2 decent players attacking. Dodging, even on a magicka build, is 100% more effective right now than trying to tank and outheal burst dmg. Animations, cast times and protection from defensive skills, cant keep up with the burst. So mobility and escapes rule.
If overall burst was lowered, across the board, with a more reasonable TTK, than classes and game play would feel a lot more balanced. Fear wouldn't be such a big issue either.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I agree w/ most of what you have said, but I think the difference in our opinions is that I feel that the true culprit is the extremely low TTKs that have been present since 1.6.
I also believe that the low TTK is what makes NBs feel over the top currently, as defensive play has been thrown out of the window almost completely for playstyles that favor burst and mobility.
Burst and mobility favor Sorcs and NBs above the other 2 classes, and that is why you see these 2 classes reigning supreme in Cyrodiil atm.
I can totally agree about that. This is why Fear feels so broken, by the time you manage to break it and get heal/shield of, your already dead because you took 25k dmg over 1.2 second. TTK is nuts.
I cant out-heal or shield for *** on my templar in 1.6. I'm dead mid-animation, when there's more than 2 decent players attacking. Dodging, even on a magicka build, is 100% more effective right now than trying to tank and outheal burst dmg. Animations, cast times and protection from defensive skills, cant keep up with the burst. So mobility and escapes rule.
If overall burst was lowered, across the board, with a more reasonable TTK, than classes and game play would feel a lot more balanced. Fear wouldn't be such a big issue either.
To be honest, I don't think you should be able to simply out-heal or shield all damage done to you, especially when it comes from multiple people.
That said, I don't think you should drop dead in <1 second either.
A healthy medium should be found, where burst builds can take significant chunk of health (let's say 30-40% instead of current 100%), and then keep slowly DPSing you down (if you're spamming heals/shields at this point), instead of having to run away & try to get an even bigger burst to get past the shield/heal spam.1 -
olemanwinter✭✭✭✭✭The Reason being is it only fears you, doesn't do damage and such, so if you want it to be blockable they would also have to add damage to it also so it does do something
Would that be a happy middle ground for people getting caught in fear when not blocking and suffering damage also, and if blocking you suffer minor damage from focusing so hard you got a nose bleed
/necros thread
I said that a couple of pages ago. The answer from "QQ Tank Man" was effectively "No way man...It should be a blockable and do no damage and should be reflected back at you so you get CC'd and then become unblockable and doing damage while generating ultimate for the tank, brah!"0 -
olemanwinter✭✭✭✭✭To be honest, I don't think you should be able to simply out-heal or shield all damage done to you, especially when it comes from multiple people.
That said, I don't think you should drop dead in <1 second either.
I think the answer (unlike going from extreme to extreme like always happens) is simply to raise the player health while in Cyrodiil while also raising the cost of heals and bubbles.
I'm a bust DPS. Big BIG BURST. And I can burst through just about any shield and/or bubble, BUT I CANNOT Sustain my dps for long enough because those shields and bubbles are so cheap and powerful.
This causes me to "TIME MY BURST" for moments of weakness. Ganking if you will even during a battle. I have to watch for that moment when someone runs out of resources, gets CC'd by another, runs away, gives chase, gets confused, or their health bar drops low enough that I can effectively 1 shot them.
In those cases the TTK is basically instant. If I time by burst to where their shields are not up....I can kill in under 1 second almost all the time.
The question is how do you slow down the TTK from burst DPS when someone is unprotected WITHOUT nerfing the burst that already cannot keep up with the rate of self-heal/bubble?
If the over all health were higher then the TTK would increase as it takes longer to exhaust the health pool, however should the DPS fail to do so, they would still have a chance of killing a prepared and defensive opponent if the sustainability of bubbles and shields was reduced.Edited by olemanwinter on 19 May 2015 02:230 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭theweakminded wrote: »olemanwinter wrote: »BugCollector wrote: »It's not like I'm afraid, lol.
Yeah, I hate that too, and then the NB's all *** that DK is OP! What a joke!
Why is Fossilize not blockable? It's not like I'm a fossil.
You can break fossilize with a bash. You can't break fear with a bash.
Yes you can.
Hm? No, if I bash someone who is feared on my NB he doesn't get free. I can beat the tar out of him until he dies or the fear wears off. Fossilize? Hit them once and they're free. -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.1 -
Exstazik✭✭✭✭How about to make fear=defensive ability.As example if target affect with fear your dmg to this target reduce by 25%?0 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »theweakminded wrote: »olemanwinter wrote: »BugCollector wrote: »It's not like I'm afraid, lol.
Yeah, I hate that too, and then the NB's all *** that DK is OP! What a joke!
Why is Fossilize not blockable? It's not like I'm a fossil.
You can break fossilize with a bash. You can't break fear with a bash.
Yes you can.
Hm? No, if I bash someone who is feared on my NB he doesn't get free. I can beat the tar out of him until he dies or the fear wears off. Fossilize? Hit them once and they're free.
BUt dude you know, you can Dance around of the fossil for 20 seconds, and hope he die of laughting....Edited by BuggeX on 19 May 2015 09:46#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭How about to make fear=defensive ability.As example if target affect with fear your dmg to this target reduce by 25%?
no, make fear just possible if nbs health is 50% under the Targets healt. So make fear as last Resource.#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0