Radiant Destruction better then Soul Assault??????

cozmon3c_ESO

So, wtf is this. i go from full life to dead all the time in less then a second from soul assault, oh wait i mean radiant destruction. whats wrong with this picture, did zos really make an execute that works from full life to zero in less then a second, i cant be the only person experiencing this bs. as a stam sorc there is no counter to this [snip] and for anyone else there wouldnt be either.

ZoS Jesus beam is broken as hell, make it do crap damage until less then 20%. right now its the best ultimate, oh wait, i mean skill in the game.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

mortuusbae

It's been like this for awhile now i don't think it will change tbh

Soris

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

an execute that works from full life to zero in less then a second

Umm no. Are you really sure your health bar didn't dsync? It can happen quite often just sayin'

Joy_Division

My Templar running with about 2000 spell damage against Bloodspawn.

As many times as people scream that this skill does good (let alone decent) damage outside its execute threshold, it does not make it true.

If you died in one second, it was for some other reason than the legitimate and intended damage this skill was doing to you.

Edit: Note - this test was done (mostly) during the non-execute phase because the OP and others believe its damage is too strong during the non-execute threshold. 5K DPS is a joke - 10K is barely considered decent and people who know what they are doing can throw 15K. My group of three died when Bloodspawn was at like 39% health (ironically because the DPS was too low) so this test only has a small portion of the executable threshold. Naturally the number would be higher - significantly - during the executable phase but nobody disputes this.

Alexander Powerkill

Lol @Joy_Division show me another skill in the game that u can spam with no we a ing and pull 5k dps

Soris

Alexander Powerkill wrote: »

Lol @Joy_Division show me another skill in the game that u can spam with no we a ing and pull 5k dps

That 4433 dps also includes execute phase I guess. So, the result would be more likely 2k dps if he had stop using it in execute phase.
Which it also states in the description, ~6k damage over 3.1 seconds + up to 300% more vs low health targets.

Edited because of Joy's edit. Still 4.4k dps is not overhelmingly higher than other alternatives. Considering that chart is still includes "small potion" of execute threshold, so lets say 4k dps for non execute phase.
It still does not support OP's claim that dropping in a second from max health to zero.

Soris

As an another fact, Force Pulse alone can give you around 3k dps if you spam hard

Cinbri

It is already like forum joke. Record video of instant death, upload it here for proove, until than all threads like "RD killing me in 1 sec" is [snip].
@Alexander Powerkill in PvE Crushing Shock deal sugnificant more damage than RD, and i don't see why it not working for PvP.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Soris

Soris wrote: »

+ up to 300% more vs low health targets.

As a side note, it hits 300% more if your health is at 5%.
So it hits like 18k.
But you never eat that full 18k damage. Because at 5% health, you have like 1.5k health at most. So you just take that last 1.5k damage from Radiant Destruction. But addons and death recap shows it as full dmg potential (18k damage or 6k per sec) This is same with other executes. If you are at low health and died to an execute, all of them counted with their full dmg potential in your death recap and addons that shows damage taken.

PeggymoeXD

Radiant Destruction in 1v1 scenarios is almost laughable. Of course, it's a very effective execute, and can certainly finish you off quick if your hp drops to less than around 40, but if you have an effective rotation and you're up against an RD spammer, you will win.

My problem with this skill can be literally the same argument as the "people who suck can still be good if they siege" one. People got mad when siege damage was buffed because any ole derp could hop on one and get one-shots with them. I personally have absolutely no problem with that, but this is basically the same case, just with a skill. Any templar running with a group of more than himself can spam that skill, just in preparation for the target's health to inevitably drop to execute range because of his allies doing damage. I'm honestly convinced that the templars who run in large groups don't even bother slotting other skills besides RD because it's spammed on me so often. My only defense in that situation as a stamina DK is to quickly find out and tab-target who is spamming and do my best to hit him with a venom arrow to interrupt. That is successful maybe 10% of the time. And of course, it doesn't prevent them from getting right back at it, it just might allow me time to get myself out of range. With several people doing constant damage to me and an templar spamming RD, of course I'm going to die.

Basically though, I do think RD is better than soul assault. I've shield stacked and healed through plenty of soul assaults successfully, but rarely ever manage to heal through an RD at less than half health while being wailed on by 10 players. If ZOS was to make a change, I would wish that it was more of a super awesome kai blast. That way I could refect it

Sypher

The first tick of radiant isn't visible. By the time you see the beam you've already taken 2 ticks.

Just putting that out there.

Lyzaaa

The problem is htat theres nearly no counter apart from cleansing or NB dark cloak. If you're in a 1vX scenerio, or hell, in a group scene, theres not much time to rush the spamming templars to prevent them from RDing you. By the time u can interrupt them they alrdy done 10k (per person ) AT LEAST. Multiple targets RDing you has no counter this way.

And it doesn't break when goign out of vision, it goes thru rocks even complete houses, its like.. oh 1vX scene, trying my best.. they're making mistakes, killed one.. then templar is like [snip] it i'll finish this im bored of this guy .. boom spam RD and ur like oh shitt dude my HP bar is dropping gotta ruuuuuuun b4 it hits low health.. boom ur dead.

Thing that keeps bugging me about this game is things being so unbalanced, risk/reward is like.. i dunno certain classes have huge reward no risk, i know templars are weak but this skill is hella strong. Insane reward, hardly any risk, it takes no skill..

And to that person doing 4.4k DPS, with some more magicka/spell dmg, and espescially in a 1v1 scene that will hit at least 7-8k, due to the fact after 2 ticks ur alrdy closing in on low health. It's as if you're permanently getting hit by crystal fragments without cast time ( not a full spell dmg frag's tho ) -- Its that ***, but u cant reflect it, cant dodge it cant do anything about it.

PS: It's 28 meters. All the gapclosers afaik are 22meters max range. Trying to stop someone from channeling this skill is actually not that simple. Not because it can't be done, but because it takes so much time ur bound to take a *** ton of damage before you get to that point. And apart from 1v1 scenerio's, ur dead by that point. Unless ur a amasterclass NB ofc

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Joy_Division

Alexander Powerkill wrote: »

Lol @Joy_Division show me another skill in the game that u can spam with no we a ing and pull 5k dps

If you insist on the obvious:







And let's not even talk about the infamous Wrecking Blow which empowers itself and is a hard CC.

Each of these were done with the same technique as the radiant destruction test above: use structured entropy for the spellpower and empower buff and weave in an attack as soon as possible.

If you weren't so wedded to your own biases, you would have realized that in my test I DID weave in other attacks with Radiant Destruction. Also if you were capable of actually objectively analyzing the pros and cons of the skills in this game, a major factor in Radiant Destruction's poor DPS is that your character spends so much time channeling the skill, it isn't weaving, applying Dots, debuffs, etc., to say nothing of the fact that she is defenseless and susceptible to interrupts.

The fact of the matter is a Templar who wants to DPS a target from full health would be better off - much - by not spamming Radiant Destruction (also for reasons beyond DPS: templars will want to defend themselves) and instead reserving its use for its intended purpose.

This isn't exactly science and can easily be confirmed via observation or simple testing. But apparently you'd prefer to keep your head in the sand and whining.

Edit: PeggyMoe "but rarely ever manage to heal through an RD at less than half health while being wailed on by 10 players".

If you are able to heal yourself while being wailed on by 10 players while being hit with an execute in its proc threshold, then that so called "execute" would need to go the way of the dodo.

Lyzaaa

K well guys, let sjust buff this skill, 10k per tick lets say?

Tankqull

the last patch broke sth, i recieve regularily 10-15k ticks from radiant currently. i´m prety much a two tic at the moment, never has been that way before.

Ashanne

OMG...reroll a templar if the class is so OP...speak after

DanTeales_Inferno

@Lyzaaa, you say it has no risk attached ?! A bright yellow beam, pointing directly to the caster, who, being a templar, has no escape poor stamina management and damage skills either easy to avoid or channeled ?

Yes, i believe RD is overpowered at the minute. Partly due to what @Sypher said in that the first 2 ticks occur within the first second of casting. I also believe it should be purgeable and adhere to LOS. Other than that I think the effectiveness of this skill is slightly exaggerated. People see big numbers and insta QQ before actually thinking about what they mean.

I cant help feeling people complaining have never played a templar. They wouldn't know what it was like to finish an opponent with snails pace projectiles, lengthy cast times, channelled abilities and poor mobility. Anything getting through a sorcs 25k+ shields at low health must be overpowered afterall...

Imdrefan

Delete

Cinbri

DanTeales_Inferno wrote: »

Yes, i believe RD is overpowered at the minute. Partly due to what @Sypher said in that the first 2 ticks occur within the first second of casting. I also believe it should be purgeable and adhere to LOS.

It is purgable. Still believe it is op?

Cinbri wrote: »

Yeah, this finisher is so OP that all classes can counter it by 1 button
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro_1fU9cunQ

DanTeales_Inferno

ooooooooh, ok. Fair enough. Although i still believe it ticks a bit too fast. I try not to use it too much although when a sorc starts spamming his shields and overload LA i have no shame in burning through his healing/conjured ward and magicka harness.

technohic

I don't even know what to say in these threads any more. As a templar, everything we have for decent damage has huge drawbacks that make us vulnerable to interrupts and based on the healing nature, people are OK with Templar being relegated to group support but then are upset if they do something while in a large group in order to get protection to be able to do it in the first place. Can I see where they are annoyed by it? Sure. But I am annoyed by lots of things that kill me just as fast or even faster. At the same time, I can see an issue with how the skill is designed, but are Templars really that strong to where they can afford to lose more?

Valnas

i think w/ 3k + sp dmg vs a non nirn wearer, you could prolly radiant someone at 60% health and get the first visible tick to start executing. Moreover in larger scenario's where you are taking single target spike and healing through it w/ healign ward, all it takes is one templar to lock onto you and all the rolling is for naught.

Joy_Division

To elaborate my feelings more.

I am not saying this isn't a very good skill: it is. In some situations, namely of the sort that PeggyMoe laid out, it is the best execute in the game. But it is also at times the worst execute in the game in other situations. In a scenario where the Templar is under duress and the opponent is within melee range, ANY other execute in the game is better than Radiant Destruction. It thus follows the sort of balance I hate: trends toward a desirable average but it too strong and yet too weak at the same time. A skill that shares this flawed balance is the Sorcerer Overload ultimate: it is absolutely devastating Vs. a target that is unaware or incapable of defending themselves yet almost worthless against those who have the means to defend against it (harness, reflect, stamina to dodge roll, etc).

So I will agree it is a poorly designed skill.

If I had to make the skill "fairer" I would say the two biggest issues with this spell is the fact that it still ignores LOS (BUT, I am sure other skills do as well...you NBs who gleefully ambush through the Bleakers postern I'm looking at you) and that it does instant damage before the ability is visible. Fixing these two issues would go a long way to giving targets the opportunity to counter it.

Going beyond that risks turning another skill useless. If we shorten it to 22 meters (a popular suggestion for charge counters), why must a templar *still* be defenseless when using this ability? Where is the Templar's counter-play? If NBs claim that managing their stamina pool is a counter to fear, why can't Templars claim that managing a ranged interrupt is a counter to RD? Why can a sorc "prep" their execute out of range from all melee abilities without making themselves vulnerable to interrupts? Can't just eliminate the strengths without consideration of the weaknesses

It is precisely because this ability is channeled that is takes a skillful user to actually use it effectively. No [snip] any noob can mindlessly press a button and execute an outnumbered enemy incapable of defending themselves from it, but that player was going to die anyway and they wouldn't be much better off if instead I was casting other damaging spells. In fights that actually matter, when an opponent is perfectly capable of reacting, it takes skillful play on the Templar's part to successfully use this spell and get a kill. I will tell you using the Mage's Fury skill is even more mindless: no cast time, no channel, just aim it at someone near half health and hope RNG smiles with a crystal frag proc.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

eliisra

I was actually wondering about all these PvP noob templars in my VR dungeon groups, spamming Jesus Beam on full health bosses like pro's lol.

In PvE it's pretty much 0 dps. Very painful and awkward to watch, as healer or tank. Almost infuriating, because you're basically 1 dps short, when some templar genius thinks you can beam a boss from start to finish.

But why would they do it in the first place? Are they unable to read tool-tips? Stupid?

My conclusion is that the skill still bugs in PvP at times. There' something in there not always behaving accordingly, making it useful or rewarding to spam on full health targets. These guys beaming away on 100% health bosses, clearly adopted this bad habit from somewhere.

I haven't noticed taking any real dmg from Radiant Destruction while being below or above 40% health personally. But with nirnhoned, annulment, CP, purge spam and all that cushion you dont take much dmg from magic damage in the first place. So I cant really say.

technohic

A 3k spell damage templar is defenseless to where anything else would be equally if not more deadly back at them without any form of escape. Their shield will be crap (which it isn;t that great even with high health) and they are just waiting to be insta-gibbed.

eventide03b14a_ESO

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

So, wtf is this. i go from full life to dead all the time in less then a second from soul assault, oh wait i mean radiant destruction. whats wrong with this picture, did zos really make an execute that works from full life to zero in less then a second, i cant be the only person experiencing this bs. as a stam sorc there is no counter to this s*** and for anyone else there wouldnt be either.

ZoS Jesus beam is broken as hell, make it do crap damage until less then 20%. right now its the best ultimate, oh wait, i mean skill in the game.

Have you checked the forums before posting? This is not a new topic.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

My Templar running with about 2000 spell damage against Bloodspawn.

As many times as people scream that this skill does good (let alone decent) damage outside its execute threshold, it does not make it true.

If you died in one second, it was for some other reason than the legitimate and intended damage this skill was doing to you.

Edit: Note - this test was done (mostly) during the non-execute phase because the OP and others believe its damage is too strong during the non-execute threshold. 5K DPS is a joke - 10K is barely considered decent and people who know what they are doing can throw 15K. My group of three died when Bloodspawn was at like 39% health (ironically because the DPS was too low) so this test only has a small portion of the executable threshold. Naturally the number would be higher - significantly - during the executable phase but nobody disputes this.

Most players don't run around with 500,000 HP though. Not exactly a fair comparison.

ToRelax

Only problem I see with Radiant is that you can't do anything against it. Eventually it may bug, ok, haven't esperienced that yet, I know it ignores LOS usually though.
You can purge now, great (really), but it doesn't help much when the Templar can just go on with it. When I purge a Soul Assault, it's over. So there needs to be something else.
Anything that either prevents you from being hit in the first place (dodge, reflect, absorb...) or makes the Templar unable to cast right again on the same player after it was interrupted/purged.

danno8

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

So, wtf is this. i go from full life to dead all the time in less then a second from soul assault, oh wait i mean radiant destruction. whats wrong with this picture, did zos really make an execute that works from full life to zero in less then a second, i cant be the only person experiencing this bs. as a stam sorc there is no counter to this s*** and for anyone else there wouldnt be either.

ZoS Jesus beam is broken as hell, make it do crap damage until less then 20%. right now its the best ultimate, oh wait, i mean skill in the game.

Your post defies all the facts of what the skill actually does. If you are going to post things like " i go from full life to dead all the time in less then a second from [RD]", then at least show a screenshot from CLS or FTC (not the stupid recap which lumps several seconds of damage all into one). It should be easy since it happens "all the time". I expect you should have a video by the end of today then , no?

Until you do this, people will simply ignore you.

I have used RD a thousand times and had it used on me hundreds of times and never seen anything like 100--> 0% in "less than a second"

I seriously am beginning to think that all the complaining about RD is from all the perma-dodge builds out there trying to eliminate one of the last few counters to their perma-dodge builds.

Joy_Division

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

My Templar running with about 2000 spell damage against Bloodspawn.

As many times as people scream that this skill does good (let alone decent) damage outside its execute threshold, it does not make it true.

If you died in one second, it was for some other reason than the legitimate and intended damage this skill was doing to you.

Edit: Note - this test was done (mostly) during the non-execute phase because the OP and others believe its damage is too strong during the non-execute threshold. 5K DPS is a joke - 10K is barely considered decent and people who know what they are doing can throw 15K. My group of three died when Bloodspawn was at like 39% health (ironically because the DPS was too low) so this test only has a small portion of the executable threshold. Naturally the number would be higher - significantly - during the executable phase but nobody disputes this.

Most players don't run around with 500,000 HP though. Not exactly a fair comparison.

Have you seen the amount of nirn and shield stacking and purging kids these days use?

OdinForge

Before they patched the horses recently, i got hit from stealth by an 8k+ dark flare and a radiant destruction for 22k. The RD was on me first since the animation for flare is slow but in the death recap flare came first. Killed me faster than any Sorc has nuked me in the past, on par or faster than getting sniped off the horse. Got a video floating around somewhere on my channel. The only thing that seems more instantaneous than that, is the new NB gank trick where you snipe->ambush each for 11k+

No nirnstrings on me