Ways to Buff NB and Templar without nerfing sorc's and DK"S

Stamden

DoctorSwampy wrote: »

halfbadger wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Fear is the single best ability in the game

You are insane. Dark cloak is.

*Dark Cloak is when it works.

And it usually doesn't.

Derra

NB ist most likely the strongest class if played right currently. I wish my sorc was one (not kidding).

coolermh

Derra wrote: »

NB ist most likely the strongest class if played right currently. I wish my sorc was one (not kidding).

I disagree as would most according to the poll "what class is the strongest in pvp"

k2blader

coolermh wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Buff Nightblades?

Yeah...how about you fix fear spam first.

I would happily trade the skill fear for a stamina version of bolt escape.

Right here is where you clearly discredit yourself.

coolermh

k2blader wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Buff Nightblades?

Yeah...how about you fix fear spam first.

I would happily trade the skill fear for a stamina version of bolt escape.

Right here is where you clearly discredit yourself.

As mentioned before you can easily stop fear by using immovable or an immovable potion. It is a good skill no doubt but I would rather be able to run away with no chance of dying.

halfbadger

coolermh wrote: »

I disagree as would most according to the poll "what class is the strongest in pvp"

The poll should have been called "What class do you see creating the most visual effects when you die in your zerg?"
Obviously NB is going to be lowest

coolermh

halfbadger wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

I disagree as would most according to the poll "what class is the strongest in pvp"

The poll should have been called "What class do you see creating the most visual effects when you die in your zerg?"
Obviously NB is going to be lowest

False. NB is not the lowest... Templar is.

Ezareth

Panda244 wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Buff Nightblades?

Yeah...how about you fix fear spam first.

I would happily trade the skill fear for a stamina version of bolt escape.

Why hte hell would you want an ability to run away when Dark Cloak works fine

Ezareth wrote: »

The problem is there are so many terribad night blades out there that they've skewed the public opinion into thinking they are a weak class when they are not by any means.

halfbadger

coolermh wrote: »

False. NB is not the lowest... Templar is.

gj ignoring my point, ***

Ezareth

eliisra wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

The problem is there are so many terribad night blades out there that they've skewed the public opinion into thinking they are a weak class when they are not by any means.

There's definitely something with the assassin archetype that attracts below average players, but I cant put my finger on it, only speculate. Might be due to history and other online games. The class with options for rouge/assassin/Robin Hood gameplay is often the easiest one the play, highest burst, fotm with best potential for PvP. Solid choice for terribads, scrubs and trashtalking teenager.

So when these terribads came to ESO they probably had all these expectations when choosing a nightblade. Must have been a major disappointment. Here you need a certain amount of brains, timing and skill, to perform well. Especially if you play nightblade.

Yeah I've said many times I feel that NB has the highest and most rewarding skillcap out of any class in the game. I see far more variability in the skill level NBs than any other. It's just not easy to play at that level consistently and when you throw lag and bugs into the mix it can be pretty frustrating I'm sure.

Ffastyl wrote: »

Templars are pretty solid in PvP. By solid I mean balanced. We have our specialty, healing, and means of debuffing and attacking an enemy or group. Templar class abilities are oriented towards support, and it takes only a small bit of ingenuity to direct that support into offense or defense.

I have not seen many Dragonknights on the field of late. I am guessing their massive numbers were due to meta-chasers who migrated to the Sorcerer camp. Either way, the Dragonknights I have fought have survivability down pat, that is their class specialty, but tend to lack in offense (most held block and played defensively). Are Dragonknights underpowered? No, I have glimpsed in larger battles Dragonknights slaying enemies.

I fought some damn good Dragonknights that I can't kill recently who aren't even using Nirnhoned. You are correct that DKs drew a ton of bad players who wanted easy mode and now that the class is more balanced aren't effective at all.

coolermh

Ezareth wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

The problem is there are so many terribad night blades out there that they've skewed the public opinion into thinking they are a weak class when they are not by any means.

There's definitely something with the assassin archetype that attracts below average players, but I cant put my finger on it, only speculate. Might be due to history and other online games. The class with options for rouge/assassin/Robin Hood gameplay is often the easiest one the play, highest burst, fotm with best potential for PvP. Solid choice for terribads, scrubs and trashtalking teenager.

So when these terribads came to ESO they probably had all these expectations when choosing a nightblade. Must have been a major disappointment. Here you need a certain amount of brains, timing and skill, to perform well. Especially if you play nightblade.

Yeah I've said many times I feel that NB has the highest and most rewarding skillcap out of any class in the game. I see far more variability in the skill level NBs than any other. It's just not easy to play at that level consistently and when you throw lag and bugs into the mix it can be pretty frustrating I'm sure.

Ffastyl wrote: »

Templars are pretty solid in PvP. By solid I mean balanced. We have our specialty, healing, and means of debuffing and attacking an enemy or group. Templar class abilities are oriented towards support, and it takes only a small bit of ingenuity to direct that support into offense or defense.

I have not seen many Dragonknights on the field of late. I am guessing their massive numbers were due to meta-chasers who migrated to the Sorcerer camp. Either way, the Dragonknights I have fought have survivability down pat, that is their class specialty, but tend to lack in offense (most held block and played defensively). Are Dragonknights underpowered? No, I have glimpsed in larger battles Dragonknights slaying enemies.

I fought some damn good Dragonknights that I can't kill recently who aren't even using Nirnhoned. You are correct that DKs drew a ton of bad players who wanted easy mode and now that the class is more balanced aren't effective at all.

I'm glad that is your opinion but I think poll posted in the combat and skills section says majority of players think otherwise...

Draxys

coolermh wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

NB ist most likely the strongest class if played right currently. I wish my sorc was one (not kidding).

I disagree as would most according to the poll "what class is the strongest in pvp"

Citing a poll on a public forum is an idiotic way to decide class balance.

Ezareth

coolermh wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

NB ist most likely the strongest class if played right currently. I wish my sorc was one (not kidding).

I disagree as would most according to the poll "what class is the strongest in pvp"

I'd have voted for NB but I'm a Sorc and it was my classly duty to vote for the highest non-sorc class in that poll. (another reason that "poll" meant nothing)

Considering that easily 90%+ of PvP players really do it casually and really know little about PvP why would their perception on what the strongest class is be even cited?

coolermh

Well 711 players voted on that... I'm guess the knowledge of 711 players is more viable then one persons opinion. DK's and sorc's are currently seen as stronger then temps and NB's. So stop calling people terriabad because they try to create more balance in this game. All I was trying to say was that NB's need a better defensive skill and Templars needed to be adjusted as well.


Are you saying 90% of the games populations opinion doesn't matter because they dont play as "Hardcore as you" and where are you getting 90%...sounds like you made that number up randomly.

Ezareth

coolermh wrote: »

Well 711 players voted on that... I'm guess the knowledge of 711 players is more viable then one persons opinion. DK's and sorc's are currently seen as stronger then temps and NB's. So stop calling people terriabad because they try to create more balance in this game. All I was trying to say was that NB's need a better defensive skill and Templars needed to be adjusted as well.


Are you saying 90% of the games populations opinion doesn't matter because they dont play as "Hardcore as you" and where are you getting 90%...sounds like you made that number up randomly.

I say 90% of the game's population because in my experience that is the number of players who give me a deer in the headlights look as I power overload them to death when their salvation is a mere double-tap on their keyboard away.

Besides, I never said their opinion doesn't matter, I was only pointing out the absurdity of citing a public opinion poll to reinforce something you're trying to state as an accepted fact. Hell 29% of Americans don't know the name of the Vice President.

Assuming that Bias exists what if the majority of players on these forums were nightblades and templars?

Let's for a minute assume all of the classes are perfectly balanced (in my opinion that isn't far from the truth). What happens if ZoS in the name of public opinion decides to buff the classes perceived as weakest by the majority? That means the most skilled players who were playing a balanced class are now playing an overpowered class. That's what I'm trying to prevent.

I bet if you asked the top 10% of players in the game by PvP rank you'd get a far different (and more balanced) opinion of where the class balance stands.

coolermh

Ezareth wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

Well 711 players voted on that... I'm guess the knowledge of 711 players is more viable then one persons opinion. DK's and sorc's are currently seen as stronger then temps and NB's. So stop calling people terriabad because they try to create more balance in this game. All I was trying to say was that NB's need a better defensive skill and Templars needed to be adjusted as well.


Are you saying 90% of the games populations opinion doesn't matter because they dont play as "Hardcore as you" and where are you getting 90%...sounds like you made that number up randomly.

I say 90% of the game's population because in my experience that is the number of players who give me a deer in the headlights look as I power overload them to death when their salvation is a mere double-tap on their keyboard away.

Besides, I never said their opinion doesn't matter, I was only pointing out the absurdity of citing a public opinion poll to reinforce something you're trying to state as an accepted fact. Hell 29% of Americans don't know the name of the Vice President.

Assuming that Bias exists what if the majority of players on these forums were nightblades and templars?

Let's for a minute assume all of the classes are perfectly balanced (in my opinion that isn't far from the truth). What happens if ZoS in the name of public opinion decides to buff the classes perceived as weakest by the majority? That means the most skilled players who were playing a balanced class are now playing an overpowered class. That's what I'm trying to prevent.

I bet if you asked the top 10% of players in the game by PvP rank you'd get a far different (and more balanced) opinion of where the class balance stands.

Perhaps and perhaps not. I would venture a guess is that the people who post on forums in this game have a fairly vested interest in this game and are likely not part of that "90%" of people who stand in the headlights... but rather have played enough to realize that they need to speak up about perceived imbalances in the game because they are competitive and not casual.

ToRelax

If ZOS would just do what the majority wants, then we'd probably soon have a rediculous OP NB class who can reliably escape and oneshot people from stealth, then the PvP dies.

coolermh

ToRelax wrote: »

If ZOS would just do what the majority wants, then we'd probably soon have a rediculous OP NB class who can reliably escape and oneshot people from stealth, then the PvP dies.

You mean what sorcs do now...

ToRelax

coolermh wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

If ZOS would just do what the majority wants, then we'd probably soon have a rediculous OP NB class who can reliably escape and oneshot people from stealth, then the PvP dies.

You mean what sorcs do now...

You need to read correctly.
I didnt say a reliable working escape skill and some nice burst.
I said actually reliably escape (wich Sorc can not) and oneshot people from stealth (neither, in fact it's a lot harder to get back into stealth as a Sorc...).

jelliedsoup

DoctorSwampy wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

I think NB's need some sort of sheild or heal? Like what if shadow cloak provided a 10 second shield based off max health or something?

I dont know about Templars? Thoughts?


I mean its pretty clear by the poll "Strongest class in PVP" that people seem to agree that DK's and Sorc are on a different playing field than Temps and NB's

If people think Templar and NB aren't strong PvP classes they're playing a different game; or they are just expect a one button win because that's what we've had since the beginning.
Templars have less sustain than they did with the shield nerf, but they are still able to do plenty with their abilities other than spam Sun Shield and Shards.
Nightblades are able to get away quite easily, and prevent themselves from being hit with Mirage and its respective pre-morph and counter morph, as well as Shadowy Disguise and it's respectives.
Dragonknights need nothing, except maybe DKs getting a real version of wings to counter the range that, you know, we don't have class-wise.
Sorcerer is awesome as is, we just need less "nerf sorc" garbage.

Lol get away with mirage. You don't play nb do you?

jelliedsoup

Ezareth wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

Well 711 players voted on that... I'm guess the knowledge of 711 players is more viable then one persons opinion. DK's and sorc's are currently seen as stronger then temps and NB's. So stop calling people terriabad because they try to create more balance in this game. All I was trying to say was that NB's need a better defensive skill and Templars needed to be adjusted as well.


Are you saying 90% of the games populations opinion doesn't matter because they dont play as "Hardcore as you" and where are you getting 90%...sounds like you made that number up randomly.

I say 90% of the game's population because in my experience that is the number of players who give me a deer in the headlights look as I power overload them to death when their salvation is a mere double-tap on their keyboard away.

Besides, I never said their opinion doesn't matter, I was only pointing out the absurdity of citing a public opinion poll to reinforce something you're trying to state as an accepted fact. Hell 29% of Americans don't know the name of the Vice President.

Assuming that Bias exists what if the majority of players on these forums were nightblades and templars?

Let's for a minute assume all of the classes are perfectly balanced (in my opinion that isn't far from the truth). What happens if ZoS in the name of public opinion decides to buff the classes perceived as weakest by the majority? That means the most skilled players who were playing a balanced class are now playing an overpowered class. That's what I'm trying to prevent.

I bet if you asked the top 10% of players in the game by PvP rank you'd get a far different (and more balanced) opinion of where the class balance stands.

When you say skill do you mean what sequence of skills they activate and what gear they're using?

You know the top ten will be min maxxers so that's not balanced for a start.

Bouvin

DoctorSwampy wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Buff Nightblades?

Yeah...how about you fix fear spam first.

I would happily trade the skill fear for a stamina version of bolt escape.

Dodge roll, dodge roll, dodge roll, dodge roll, dodge roll.
Sorry, did I forget Dodge Roll?

Dodge Roll is not a NB skill.

Panda244

For all those saying Dark Cloak doesn't work.

Sure, it's a tad bit buggy, but when I played my Nightblade after 1.6.

I ran into Glademist, it was under siege by Reds, Blues were defending, I Ambushed through the Postern door, ran upstairs, killed three people, ran into the corner of the third floor behind the tomb thing, waited for combat to end, came out, killed an additional two people, someone used a detect potion, so I jumped off the third floor onto the outter wall, recloaked, ran into the Northwestern tower, killed an EP on siege, jumped off the tower, ran up to the mine, killed an EP on siege, ran back down the hill, killed an EP on siege, ran back inside Glademist, killed at least a dozen more people until I finally got cornered between a detect potion and a hard place.

The entire time I was doing this I was spamming Dark Cloak and Double Take because Altmer Nightblades are OP and can cloak indefinitely when built right.

Cloak bugged out once or twice the entire 45 minutes I was doing this, I would roll dodge, and recloak, and it would work fine, so yea. Cloak is bugged.

For people that can't spam it.


#AltmerMasterRace @Ezareth


Fear needs to be nerfed though, it's so broke it ain't funny, NBs are the single strongest classes in the game in my opinion, then Sorcerers, then Dragonknights, then Templars.

This of course is my opinion, any good player, can make a class, the best class. As evidence by Templar Nation. Because Templar Nation. Is Templar. *******. Nation.

Bouvin

Is NB the only class without a decent self heal AND shield?

Honestly, if they'd add a Stam morph of Strife that would help with heal. You should't be forced to play a Magicka NB to have a class heal.

Then just replace either Grim Focus or Agony with some type of shield.

And your good to go. Now balanced with other classes who all have either a damage shield or heal, or both.

jelliedsoup

@Panda244 Sure but only for magicka nbs.

Draxys

Bouvin wrote: »

You should't be forced to play a Magicka NB to have a class heal.

What? Every class is "forced to play magicka" to have a class heal. They all take magicka to use, and you can still use them in a stamina build.

k2blader

coolermh wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Buff Nightblades?

Yeah...how about you fix fear spam first.

I would happily trade the skill fear for a stamina version of bolt escape.

Right here is where you clearly discredit yourself.

As mentioned before you can easily stop fear by using immovable or an immovable potion. It is a good skill no doubt but I would rather be able to run away with no chance of dying.

If you think an NB bolt escape is going to let you run away with no chance of dying, you're wrong.

If you want bolt escape why not level a sorc?

FireCowCommando

Theres way to many nonfunctional templar abilities, or ones that were crippled by rushed balance changes and never actually looked into for balance to get a good feel for how the class currently functions post 1.6.

Lyzaaa

Actually imo Nb's are one of the best pvp classes out there.. imo tho could be wrong^^

Mumyo

coolermh wrote: »

I think NB's need some sort of sheild or heal? Like what if shadow cloak provided a 10 second shield based off max health or something?

I dont know about Templars? Thoughts?


I mean its pretty clear by the poll "Strongest class in PVP" that people seem to agree that DK's and Sorc are on a different playing field than Temps and NB's

ah *** this game