Detection Potions

TheBucket

Run out of range of the detect potion? Everyone in this thread is using some sort gap closer. Crit Rush, Bolt, Ambush, Shield charge, etc. You dont simply run out of the potions range


40 seconds is to long. Period.

Kypho

TheBucket wrote: »

Run out of range of the detect potion? Everyone in this thread is using some sort gap closer. Crit Rush, Bolt, Ambush, Shield charge, etc. You dont simply run out of the potions range


40 seconds is to long. Period.

Dont forget its FailZenimax. It would be a miracle if they manage to do something right.

Ace_SiN

TheBull wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Its weird...I have a nightblade..so i know that detect pots will kill NBs fairly quick..

but at the same time..I know if they were removed or nerfed badly, Nightblades would be insanely stupid like Sorcs are right now for getting away from fights.

Basically if they removed detect pots right now..You'd never kill my Nightblade.

You're right. I understand why they are there. 20 meters 40 secs is a bit over the top though. As a fellow NB, I pop them more than health pots.. That should tell you something...

It tells me that cloak is pretty broken, but then again I've always been against games that have a completely invisible to the eye stealth mechanic(especially while in your enemies face anyway).

cozmon3c_ESO

when they bring bow [snip] no skill gameplay into balance i will be all for nerfing stealth pots but as of right now they are like invisible turrets that just restealth after every shot and you cannot figure out where that damn arrow even came from. you spam your no skill bow crap and ill continue on my detect potion chugging. half the time you dont even get a warning sound to dodge that *** and the arrow desyncs form the game, you are running around thinking your alive for a minute after but then finally fall over dead. stealth gameplay is stronger now then it has ever been in this game, and if you cant figure out how to utilize it even with a detect pot near you, you are just doing it wrong. even with detect pots up people get away from me.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

Bahalul

^ This right here.

ZOS can remove detect pot altogether, but they better give me magelight wih 40m range to counter the NB [snip].

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

deepseamk20b14_ESO

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

It has nothing to do with people running away. Its a defensive skill no different than GDB, blazing shield, or hardening ward. Most NB's use it offensively. Its the only defense an NB has. While we are spamming cloak to stay alive you're spamming green dragons blood. It absolutely bewilders me that people can't understand this. Let me have a potion that prevents you from self healing or using shields, then you'll get the picture. Having a simple potion completely negates a classes skill is ridiculous. NB is fun and can be successful with cookie cutter builds and luck but its the most gimp class in the game. Just look at the constant beat a dead horse polls. They always have NB on the bottom and its been that way since launch.

There is an entire mechanic designed around stopping heals, it's called healing debuffs.. And they absolutely gut gdb
You can also use heals while still retaining cloak.. So it's not exactly on par. If they ended up changing pots they'd have to add a magicka pen like bolt escape has to cloak. I mean right now I can dark cloak across the entire map of cyrodiil if i wanted

You can still get heals though even if they are less and let's be honest, I've ran stuff like disease on all weapons, soul harvest/incapacitating strikes and other skills with the defile debuff and it does nothing lol. GDB can be buffed to heal for 50% HP a shot, a DK even posted on how. Unless they make it so you're only "30%" cloaked, its not the same at all.

Vizier

Bahalul wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Bahalul wrote: »

Half the time my attacks are dodged even when the NB is popped out of stealth (he didn't roll dodge) so what's up with that eh?

That is most likely from the Blur effect (20% dodge) that NBs get, though every class has access to this exact same buff through the medium armor active, Evasion.

Ahh that might be it then, although I swear it's more than 20%! I really doubt evasion is being used though, considering the fact that these NBs wouldn't have half the brain to figure out what skills to use beside cloak and snipe, and do people really slot evasion on their bar? Isn't it more expensive than just roll dodging?

why would they use evasion over Blur? Blur morphed gives a 40% movement bonus for 4 seconds and lasts longer than Elude (MorphedEvasion) Both spells provide the exact same buff to dodge chance. The snare immunity of Shuffle (morphed Evasion) is interesting though but I may as well cast rapid maneuvers and blur in that case. NB have waited a long time for Blur to be relevant.

Ezareth

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Its weird...I have a nightblade..so i know that detect pots will kill NBs fairly quick..

but at the same time..I know if they were removed or nerfed badly, Nightblades would be insanely stupid like Sorcs are right now for getting away from fights.

Basically if they removed detect pots right now..You'd never kill my Nightblade.

Pretty much this.

Against good Nightblades even with Radiant Magelight they good ones get away easily. It almost seems like Magelight detection radius was nerfed or something.

Varicite

Bahalul wrote: »

^ This right here.

ZOS can remove detect pot altogether, but they better give me magelight wih 40m range to counter the NB [snip].

Invis pots.

You can do it too, better than ANY NB, period.

Or reflect, if you're a DK.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Lava_Croft

Cloaking only works against bad players. Anyone with even the most remote understanding of ESO mechanics will use one of the many ways to negate Cloaking.

I'll name a few:

• Gap closer
• Detection potion
• Magelight
• Caltrops
• Any PBAoE
• Ball of Lightning
• Flare

I probably missed a few because there's just so many counters to Cloaking.

Cenion

I think the problem with cloak is that it works badly and that there are so strong counters to it (potions, magelight..)

Remove either one of those problems and cloak becomes very strong. Remove both and you would never catch a NB. We would escape every time.

I actually think magelight is a pretty nice defense against cloaks. It provides great protection, but it has a fairly heavy cost as it has pretty limited uses outside of catching nightblades (and that light really is a "kill me asap" sign for me)

Kypho

Bahalul wrote: »

^ This right here.

ZOS can remove detect pot altogether, but they better give me magelight wih 40m range to counter the NB [snip].

why not remove snipe and NB? why not remove all class, just make you x100% buff to anything, because you are too bad?

Ps.: if you playing sorc, then excuse me... we all know how path..ic sorcs are nowadays.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

pppontus

Kypho wrote: »

Bahalul wrote: »

^ This right here.

ZOS can remove detect pot altogether, but they better give me magelight wih 40m range to counter the NB [snip].

why not remove snipe and NB? why not remove all class, just make you x100% buff to anything, because you are too bad?

Ps.: if you playing sorc, then excuse me... we all know how path..ic sorcs are nowadays.

God forbid you actually have to fight someone right? Everyone should just die instantly to your snipeskillzz when you sit in a corner somewhere and snipe 'em outta stealth.

OMG ZOS HE CAN FIGHT BACK (even though you already took half his HP) NERF PLZ

Ezareth wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Its weird...I have a nightblade..so i know that detect pots will kill NBs fairly quick..

but at the same time..I know if they were removed or nerfed badly, Nightblades would be insanely stupid like Sorcs are right now for getting away from fights.

Basically if they removed detect pots right now..You'd never kill my Nightblade.

Pretty much this.

Against good Nightblades even with Radiant Magelight they good ones get away easily. It almost seems like Magelight detection radius was nerfed or something.

Yep, I can cloak in and out anywhere np. If someone uses a detect pot that sure makes it harder, but if they're alone a good cc, speed bost and some line of sighting and bb!

The only thing that is hard is when you have a group of enemies chasing you and don't know who has the pot up.. but really, sometimes you just deserve to die.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

akray21

NB's have the lowest survive-ability without cloak. Let's see how long DK's would survive with a pot that denies GDB for 40 seconds with the same radius as detect pots...

Ezareth

akray21 wrote: »

NB's have the lowest survive-ability without cloak. Let's see how long DK's would survive with a pot that denies GDB for 40 seconds with the same radius as detect pots...

Stealth isn't the only defensive mechanism a good night blade uses, nor is GDB the only defensive mechanism a DK uses.

Observant

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Cloaking only works against bad players. Anyone with even the most remote understanding of ESO mechanics will use one of the many ways to negate Cloaking.

I'll name a few:

• Gap closer
• Detection potion
• Magelight
• Caltrops
• Any PBAoE
• Ball of Lightning
• Flare

I probably missed a few because there's just so many counters to Cloaking.

1) No, just no. You cannot charge what you cannot see.
2) YUP!
3) Nerfed into the ground
4) If you're a stam build
5) Plausible... but Roll+Dark Cloak ftw
6) Good counter for projectiles, not cloak though
7) Never used this, probably never will. (my opinion doesn't count)

PeggymoeXD

akray21 wrote: »

NB's have the lowest survive-ability without cloak. Let's see how long DK's would survive with a pot that denies GDB for 40 seconds with the same radius as detect pots...

Stamina build here. So GDB is kinda out of the question.

Varicite

PeggymoeXD wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

NB's have the lowest survive-ability without cloak. Let's see how long DK's would survive with a pot that denies GDB for 40 seconds with the same radius as detect pots...

Stamina build here. So GDB is kinda out of the question.

Strange, I run GDB on my bars even as a stam build. The stam regen alone is worth it, let alone the backup heal to Rally and increased healing while it's active through passives.

akray21

Ezareth wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

NB's have the lowest survive-ability without cloak. Let's see how long DK's would survive with a pot that denies GDB for 40 seconds with the same radius as detect pots...

Stealth isn't the only defensive mechanism a good night blade uses, nor is GDB the only defensive mechanism a DK uses.

Does the NB have a class based shield ability like every other class? No. Does the NB have a self heal ability like every other class? No.

PeggymoeXD

Varicite wrote: »

PeggymoeXD wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

NB's have the lowest survive-ability without cloak. Let's see how long DK's would survive with a pot that denies GDB for 40 seconds with the same radius as detect pots...

Stamina build here. So GDB is kinda out of the question.

Strange, I run GDB on my bars even as a stam build. The stam regen alone is worth it, let alone the backup heal to Rally and increased healing while it's active through passives.

I just use rally, if I use any magic its for igneous shield

Ezareth

akray21 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

NB's have the lowest survive-ability without cloak. Let's see how long DK's would survive with a pot that denies GDB for 40 seconds with the same radius as detect pots...

Stealth isn't the only defensive mechanism a good night blade uses, nor is GDB the only defensive mechanism a DK uses.

Does the NB have a class based shield ability like every other class? No. Does the NB have a self heal ability like every other class? No.

And when I rely only on my class shield I die....a lot. This is why I use resto instead of destro staves. This is why I use stamina reduction enchants and Defensive Stance and 2 pieces of heavy armor. Hardened ward is not an I-win button, not is GDB, nor is Stealth. With a proper setup these things complement a well thought out build but no single ability can be relied upon in isolation.

That's what I'm trying to say.

Xeniph

As a NB I actually don't mind the detect pot changes. If you are relying on stealth and try to escape a detect pot, usually you are doing it wrong.

Allow me to explain. Very few people running in zergs bother with detect pots. So if one is used you can be fairly certain that it's usually 1-2 folks looking for small scale fights. The first thing to do is counter it with your own and go on the offensive, immediately. Never, ever, ever try to escape as a stamina spec. 99% of the people I pop one on just die trying to get away, it's a free kill.

Now magicka speced NB's can just cloak all day long, in range or not. Which is why when I use a detect pot, regardless of who I think is going to be revealed, they get a Piercing Mark put on them post haste. Though purge is really useful in this situation, combat has usually started decreasing their chance to escape. I'd say I lose maybe 2-3% of good magicka NB's.

Overall I love the pot changes, it has really livened up my solo playstyle.

TheBucket

Xeniph wrote: »

As a NB I actually don't mind the detect pot changes. If you are relying on stealth and try to escape a detect pot, usually you are doing it wrong.

Allow me to explain. Very few people running in zergs bother with detect pots. So if one is used you can be fairly certain that it's usually 1-2 folks looking for small scale fights. The first thing to do is counter it with your own and go on the offensive, immediately. Never, ever, ever try to escape as a stamina spec. 99% of the people I pop one on just die trying to get away, it's a free kill.

Now magicka speced NB's can just cloak all day long, in range or not. Which is why when I use a detect pot, regardless of who I think is going to be revealed, they get a Piercing Mark put on them post haste. Though purge is really useful in this situation, combat has usually started decreasing their chance to escape. I'd say I lose maybe 2-3% of good magicka NB's.

Overall I love the pot changes, it has really livened up my solo playstyle.

Thats because there are only a few good magic nightblades.

cozmon3c_ESO

magelight shouldnt be toggle-able now just saying. having to dedicate 2 slots just to find a stealther is not worth that much. detect pots work better.

Varicite

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

magelight shouldnt be toggle-able now just saying. having to dedicate 2 slots just to find a stealther is not worth that much. detect pots work better.

It's a good thing that's not all magelight does, then.

Area51Visitor

I agree with the [snip] post peep... I'm constantly hit by projectiles from cloakers and have absolutely no way to counter them them without the detection pots I pop after having lost half my life. That said, I l'm now unable to pop a pop for health for however many seconds so have to completely rely on my abilities, whereas my opponent is still one pot up on me. The pot provides balance.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

Lava_Croft

Area51Visitor wrote: »

I agree with the [snip] post peep... I'm constantly hit by projectiles from cloakers and have absolutely no way to counter them them without the detection pots I pop after having lost half my life. That said, I l'm now unable to pop a pop for health for however many seconds so have to completely rely on my abilities, whereas my opponent is still one pot up on me. The pot provides balance.

If you are being hit by Snipe attacks that actually hurt, that means the Nightblade firing at you is using a Stamina build, which in turn means he cannot really use a lot of Cloaking. Since he has been attacking you, he cannot enter Stealth and will have to use Cloak. Use one of the many ways to counter Cloak and you should have no trouble fighting those mostly terribad Snipers.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Varicite

Area51Visitor wrote: »

I agree with the [snip] post peep... I'm constantly hit by projectiles from cloakers and have absolutely no way to counter them them without the detection pots I pop after having lost half my life. That said, I l'm now unable to pop a pop for health for however many seconds so have to completely rely on my abilities, whereas my opponent is still one pot up on me. The pot provides balance.

If the POT provides balance, then what do all of the OTHER counters to stealth provide?

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Ezareth

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

magelight shouldnt be toggle-able now just saying. having to dedicate 2 slots just to find a stealther is not worth that much. detect pots work better.

There is actually a bug/exploit now that allows you to keep toggle abilities active even after you've turned off your bar..

akray21

TheBucket wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

As a NB I actually don't mind the detect pot changes. If you are relying on stealth and try to escape a detect pot, usually you are doing it wrong.

Allow me to explain. Very few people running in zergs bother with detect pots. So if one is used you can be fairly certain that it's usually 1-2 folks looking for small scale fights. The first thing to do is counter it with your own and go on the offensive, immediately. Never, ever, ever try to escape as a stamina spec. 99% of the people I pop one on just die trying to get away, it's a free kill.

Now magicka speced NB's can just cloak all day long, in range or not. Which is why when I use a detect pot, regardless of who I think is going to be revealed, they get a Piercing Mark put on them post haste. Though purge is really useful in this situation, combat has usually started decreasing their chance to escape. I'd say I lose maybe 2-3% of good magicka NB's.

Overall I love the pot changes, it has really livened up my solo playstyle.

Thats because there are only a few good magic nightblades.

I'm not one of them. I can't kill anyone, but I can get away from 1-2 people trying to find me.