To Everyone Complaining About Sorcerers

AltusVenifus

Rylana wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I changed to Sorcerer from DK at the end of 1.5. All I have to say, I facerolled people with my DK easily all the time, and still can with my stam DK if I ever get on her. It's not so easy for my Sorc.

I practice pretty relentlessly on Sorc to keep up with my partner, and it DEFINITELY takes a lot more skill than my DK ever did. I love Sorc just for that alone, the skill it takes.

I think too many people have a MAJOR l2p issue going on with Sorcs lol. I die all the time to your snipes and wrecking blows, what's the problem here?

Having v14s in all four classes, with weeks worth of /played on each of them, i gotta say that sorc is the hardest class to master. But once mastered, it has the potential to be the most powerful class in the game.

I always get a kick out of DKs are OP threads, or anything is OP threads. DK has always had the same basic weaknesses throughout ESO. They can be kited mercilessly, and there aint a thing they can do about it. Even if you cant kill the dk, you as a sorc can ensure there is no way in hell that DK ever kills you.

Nightblade is probably the most dangerous class for a sorc to face, not because of "burst" damage or crowd control abilities, but because when built for it, its the only class other than a sorc that can keep up with one.

Templars just get screwed in this rock paper scissors. Neither should ever die to each other, but templar has no prayer of beating an on par played sorc.

So the way I see it.

Sorc v Sorc is a wash, whoever is better
Sorc v DK favors the Sorc if the Sorc is built specifically to kill DKs, otherwise the Sorc is either going to die or going to run.
Sorc v NB favors the NB in most builds (especially if its the standard magicka LA sorc vs stamina med bow/dw nb).
Sorc v Templar rarely gets decided, both classes has so much built in shielding (and temp heals while lacking range to keep up with bolt escape)

So yeah, in a lot of cases its learn to play, but with mastered classes, there is a strong argument that Sorc is the most powerful of the classes in the right hands.

Interesting. I see it

Ezareth wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

So the way I see it.

Sorc v Sorc is a wash, whoever is better
Sorc v DK favors the Sorc if the Sorc is built specifically to kill DKs, otherwise the Sorc is either going to die or going to run.
Sorc v NB favors the NB in most builds (especially if its the standard magicka LA sorc vs stamina med bow/dw nb).
Sorc v Templar rarely gets decided, both classes has so much built in shielding (and temp heals while lacking range to keep up with bolt escape)

So yeah, in a lot of cases its learn to play, but with mastered classes, there is a strong argument that Sorc is the most powerful of the classes in the right hands.

All assuming everyone is playing a glass cannon/1vX type build. Sorcs completely dump all over any sort of dedicated attrition build while still having strong attrition themselves. We don't have a chance in hell to get through your hardened ward since we aren't bursting, yet you can often put together enough spike damage to take us out even if we're in heavy armor. All the while you maintain pretty solid regen rates. It makes no sense. I actually have to make defensive sacrifices as a NB caster if I want to put together some burst. Likewise, I have to give up burst to have any level of meaningful defense. If we try to straddle the line between offense and defense like you are currently able to do, we fail at both.

Sorcs currently aren't required to focus on anything. Just pump Spellpower/Magicka and have a decent amount of health and your skills take care of the rest for you. It reminds me of WoW frost Mages when they were in their prime. Good burst (not the best, but close) with some pretty amazing defensive skills/cooldowns. No real downside. Then compare to Affliction Warlocks- a playstyle dedicated to sustained damage/longer fights- yet the Mage burst build has better defenses, not to mention the general utility of burst being more valuable for taking out key targets vs. slow DoT damage.

I'm not blaming y'all. Sorcs have a high skill cap for sure, but I wish MMO developers would learn their lesson about making sure every class/build has specific strengths and weaknesses. I don't know if its ignorance or they're playing favorites, but its getting frustrating being a defensive/sustain minded player and seeing these burst builds in multiple MMOs handed everything on a silver platter.

Long winded, but completely missing the point. If you aren't playing a burst build, you don't flail away at the shields, you attack their stamina. A CC'd sorc cannot cast shields and will die in one dmg rotation of they don't CC break immediately.

You think sorcs like me just pump everything into spell dmg/magicka like potatoes and proceed to face roll the keyboard? Wrong. I have to put everything I can into high magicka and stamina regen above all else, or else I get CC'd and die when I can't break.

I've chased you all way from Glade to Ales before CCing you the whole way, and you broke out of the CC consistently. I never came close to killing you..The only time i've killed you is by stacking Weapon Damage/Stamina as much as possible

Having fought multiple sorcs CCing constantly..I can tell you..Unless you're running extreme burst builds..You're not going to win that fight.

You pretty much have to have over 3k Weapon Damage to even come close to fighting a Sorc right now.

And you have to have 3K+ Magicka regen to even come close to being able to spam shields against a wrecking blow/lethal arrow spam. I've literally spent the majority of my mana bar just chain casting hardened ward as fast as possible while the arrows blotted out the sun. Most of the time if I stop to cast a single spell I'm dead unless I do my tried and true dodge-roll cast ( =

But this is the point right? The fact that you can spam that ward and negate that damage for so long whilst wearing light armour and still packing a punch yourself is the problem.

Yes I can absorb a ton of damage from 1-2 players while doing nothing but spamming shields. This is no different than a DK holding block. As soon as 2 players become 3 or 4 or those players start using CC I have to run (if I can) or die.

How is that a problem as I'm build specifically for it? My damage is far weaker than most "glass cannon" sorcs out there. I am *not* a damage build and 28K magicka doesn't make your spells hit hard if you don't have any spell power yet alone spell penetration.

The problem is math... It is cheaper and easier to shield then produce damage... Everyone abuses this at the moment. IMO a damage shield has to cost more than an offense attack (10k damage shield verses 6k attack). A DS should be a prebuff and not replace health. The current system will always create an imbalance unless, everyone has one... which is certainly not the case

AltusVenifus

Xeniph wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I changed to Sorcerer from DK at the end of 1.5. All I have to say, I facerolled people with my DK easily all the time, and still can with my stam DK if I ever get on her. It's not so easy for my Sorc.

I practice pretty relentlessly on Sorc to keep up with my partner, and it DEFINITELY takes a lot more skill than my DK ever did. I love Sorc just for that alone, the skill it takes.

I think too many people have a MAJOR l2p issue going on with Sorcs lol. I die all the time to your snipes and wrecking blows, what's the problem here?

Having v14s in all four classes, with weeks worth of /played on each of them, i gotta say that sorc is the hardest class to master. But once mastered, it has the potential to be the most powerful class in the game.

I always get a kick out of DKs are OP threads, or anything is OP threads. DK has always had the same basic weaknesses throughout ESO. They can be kited mercilessly, and there aint a thing they can do about it. Even if you cant kill the dk, you as a sorc can ensure there is no way in hell that DK ever kills you.

Nightblade is probably the most dangerous class for a sorc to face, not because of "burst" damage or crowd control abilities, but because when built for it, its the only class other than a sorc that can keep up with one.

Templars just get screwed in this rock paper scissors. Neither should ever die to each other, but templar has no prayer of beating an on par played sorc.

So the way I see it.

Sorc v Sorc is a wash, whoever is better
Sorc v DK favors the Sorc if the Sorc is built specifically to kill DKs, otherwise the Sorc is either going to die or going to run.
Sorc v NB favors the NB in most builds (especially if its the standard magicka LA sorc vs stamina med bow/dw nb).
Sorc v Templar rarely gets decided, both classes has so much built in shielding (and temp heals while lacking range to keep up with bolt escape)

So yeah, in a lot of cases its learn to play, but with mastered classes, there is a strong argument that Sorc is the most powerful of the classes in the right hands.

Pretty much this.

I found the Sorc too easy mode in 1.4-1.5, but in 1.6 it's really no contest. They have the steepest learning curve yes, but the most potential once learned imo. Again, so much so that I just don't play it anymore.

Don't get the learning curve line, and in fact I believe it is simple not true... I have a NB and Sorc and the sorc is way, way easier to play... can't speak for everyone else, but it isn't even comparable for me...

Ezareth

AltusVenifus wrote: »

The problem is math... It is cheaper and easier to shield then produce damage... Everyone abuses this at the moment. IMO a damage shield has to cost more than an offense attack (10k damage shield verses 6k attack). A DS should be a prebuff and not replace health. The current system will always create an imbalance unless, everyone has one... which is certainly not the case

It *is* cheaper to spam shields than it is to do damage and that is by design. You can't just compare the two however as there are plenty of snipes who can spam snipe and tear through my shields as fast as I can cast them, I'm stuck standing there recasting shields and the other person is spamming snipes. Neither of us run out of resources. As soon as you introduce a second or third sniper however I can't stack my shields fast enough and I have to use whatever stam I have left to dodge roll and bolt escape away and the snipes in the air don't kill me when I do so.

People should remember that ZoS created mess by buffing stamina builds so hard and nerfing light armor at the same time they nerfed hitpoints. They have basically forced us all a damage shield build. Don't forget I used to play in 1.5 with Soft cap hitpoints (3700) and 2400 magicka. Now I have 27K magicka and 15K hitpoints. Damage shields are not health as healh dies far less slowly than damage shields.

TheBonesXXX

Standard builds do not have a drastically high skill ceiling in any class, ie bubble+bolt sorcs, sword/board dks, sniper nightblades, and healplars.

It's when a player turns a class into a build that goes against the grain it seems to be hard.

*shrug* just means I build my character to chew through bubbles with the right combo of dots/burst as a 2h/bow DK that is my current set up.

pronkg

Fine! Delete the shield, but do give us 5000 spell damage then, without a shield we should at least be able to one shot a NB or be at least able to kill a DK or Templar until they get close enough to wrecking blow us to ***.

Don't forget, loads of sorcerors you encounter have 100CP or more, have gear worth about 1.000.000 gold.

Believe me the DKs NBs and Temps with builds like these are OP as well.

A good DK can tank 20+ people and walk away. Reflective scales a sorc to being useless.

A good temp can kill a sorc with 1 well timed skill.outheal just as much DMg

A good NB dodges/mistforms your skills to *** and fear/DPS your shield/magicka to zero in no time.

Xsorus

I'm pretty sure there is no dk in this game that would be able to tank me and one other player

Psilent

Guys, accept the challenge. EP Sorc is level 6; would be higher, but last day of Chillrend campaign is always full of zerging DC giving lots of free AP.

SafiyerAmitora

Psilent wrote: »

Guys, accept the challenge. EP Sorc is level 6; would be higher, but last day of Chillrend campaign is always full of zerging DC giving lots of free AP.

But... But... Mine is pathetic. I'm so bad on my Sorc right now... I'd be working on her if I wasn't already trying to fix my Templar. I just need to listen to some experts for both classes and try out different builds and see how they do... /sigh DK and NB seem sooooo much easier to play than Sorc and Templar... But that's probably just me.

Cinnamon_Spider

SafiyerAmitora wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

Guys, accept the challenge. EP Sorc is level 6; would be higher, but last day of Chillrend campaign is always full of zerging DC giving lots of free AP.

But... But... Mine is pathetic. I'm so bad on my Sorc right now... I'd be working on her if I wasn't already trying to fix my Templar. I just need to listen to some experts for both classes and try out different builds and see how they do... /sigh DK and NB seem sooooo much easier to play than Sorc and Templar... But that's probably just me.

That is an excellent point. Everyone is different and has a different play style. There are different classes with different styles. While someone can adapt to a different class, they will probably not excel at anything other than what matches them and what they are comfortable with playing.
While asking others to try a class out seems like a good idea, it may not be the end result that is needed.

SafiyerAmitora

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

SafiyerAmitora wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

Guys, accept the challenge. EP Sorc is level 6; would be higher, but last day of Chillrend campaign is always full of zerging DC giving lots of free AP.

But... But... Mine is pathetic. I'm so bad on my Sorc right now... I'd be working on her if I wasn't already trying to fix my Templar. I just need to listen to some experts for both classes and try out different builds and see how they do... /sigh DK and NB seem sooooo much easier to play than Sorc and Templar... But that's probably just me.

That is an excellent point. Everyone is different and has a different play style. There are different classes with different styles. While someone can adapt to a different class, they will probably not excel at anything other than what matches them and what they are comfortable with playing.
While asking others to try a class out seems like a good idea, it may not be the end result that is needed.

Too true. >.< But eh, after playing nb for 7+ months, I learned to play dk and I *think* I'm doing quite well, so I just hope I can achieve the same with Sorc and Templar with some practice, lvling, and experimenting with different skills and setups. I'm determined to be able play each class and at least *try* to get good at each one. Hopefully it'll work.

Septimus_Magna

Artemiisia wrote: »

the thing is, sorc was hard to learn because we always fall behind on dps, so we actually had to really improve our skills, so when a vr14 skilled sorc player suddenly gets some valid skills for pvp survivability, we can already adapt them into the skills we already have been harnessing for this last year.

thats why we harder to kill now, due to skill, and learning our class.

I have loved sorc for a year, and will love sorc for the next year

I couldnt agree more, people crying because they got beaten by players who have been playing sorcs since launch and think the class is OP while in fact its the players skill that makes it strong. Mainly due to the fact the class was onderpowered before 1.6 and the good players have learned to deal with those disadvantages.

The class balance is at its best point right now, if someone knows how to play his class they're hard to beat. I have NB guild mates who can beat most good sorcs for example. If you know your own class and your opponents class well, every class is defeatable. That having said, some classes work better against other classes but thats only logical.

Tankqull

Sylveria_Relden wrote: »

Anyone complaining about how *underpowered* sorcs are should have played DW NB Medium Armor from release... we'd get killed if a mob merely looked in our direction.

Oh and let's not mention how broken Sneaking was from inception... oh wait, I guess I did just mention it.

On a positive note, they are tons better now. I actually managed to surpass my Sorc (which I passed my NB up with when Sorcs were FOTM) which is surprising.

every DW-NB complaining should have played a DW-sorc from beginning it was even worse.

Horrum

Lordy. I also have a sorc but damn, they way you people are buttering your own egos makes me want to throw up. Just wow lol

Septimus_Magna

scy22b14_ESO wrote: »

With a little effort, sorcs have attained nigh infinite magicka.

Infinite mana = infinite shields = infinite health.
infinite mana = infinite bolt escapes.

This equates to the tankiest class in the game with the best escape in the game. Lets sprinkle in ridiculous burst damage potential, with a spammable overload ult that light attacks for 10-15k.

Anyone who says sorcs aren't overpowered simply hasn't PVPd enough to make their opinions worth listening to.

Oh, thats the reason we see so many great sorc tanks in end game content? I though DKs and Templars had the best tanking and dps skills but I could be wrong of course. Something you are forgetting is STAMINA, which you need to block and it drains very quickly on magicka builds. Without blocking you get knocked down/feared/stunned etc and cant cast spell = no shield = instant death because most sorcs have low health and mitigation.

Psilent

Leveling got stalled yesterday; found a genetic irregularity in my character and had to recreate. Ended up spending over 1.5 hours on the character creation screen, but now have the character in perfect condition! Got to level 6 again before pvp night started.

Can't pass up that free easy AP from the DC zerg on Azura's Star!

SafiyerAmitora

Psilent wrote: »

Leveling got stalled yesterday; found a genetic irregularity in my character and had to recreate. Ended up spending over 1.5 hours on the character creation screen, but now have the character in perfect condition! Got to level 6 again before pvp night started.

Can't pass up that free easy AP from the DC zerg on Azura's Star!

Awww... That sucks. :'C Good to hear she's all good now though! Now get her to lvl 25 so that I have a buddy to lvl my DK with!

lol Oh, I wish I could have the days back where I spent that long trying to perfect a char... Sadly, I just leave *most* things on default, and only change a few things.

o.O But I can!... Good thing you weren't in Chill though, otherwise my little DC woulda died a horrible death. :'C

monkeymystic

scy22b14_ESO wrote: »

With a little effort, sorcs have attained nigh infinite magicka.

Infinite mana = infinite shields = infinite health.
infinite mana = infinite bolt escapes.

This equates to the tankiest class in the game with the best escape in the game. Lets sprinkle in ridiculous burst damage potential, with a spammable overload ult that light attacks for 10-15k.

Anyone who says sorcs aren't overpowered simply hasn't PVPd enough to make their opinions worth listening to.

Agreed.

Cant take sorcerers seriously in pvp anymore, since they are basically a god class at the moment.

GG at making sorcerers unkillable and have insane bursts ZOS..

SafiyerAmitora

monkeymystic wrote: »

scy22b14_ESO wrote: »

With a little effort, sorcs have attained nigh infinite magicka.

Infinite mana = infinite shields = infinite health.
infinite mana = infinite bolt escapes.

This equates to the tankiest class in the game with the best escape in the game. Lets sprinkle in ridiculous burst damage potential, with a spammable overload ult that light attacks for 10-15k.

Anyone who says sorcs aren't overpowered simply hasn't PVPd enough to make their opinions worth listening to.

Agreed.

Cant take sorcerers seriously in pvp anymore, since they are basically a god class at the moment.

GG at making sorcerers unkillable and have insane bursts ZOS..

... "god class"?? "unkillable"?? Haha. Haha. That's funny!

Yeah. Right. With all the nerfs they've been getting? No. Just no. Just because I myself can't kill a sorc, especially a good one, I don't cry nerf to them because it's a weakness in my own build that makes it so difficult for me to. I'm not built specifically to take down a sorc, and I know it. But those who are? Or those whose builds, though not fully intentional, is good for fighting sorcs? Heh...

Armitas

When I fight a sorc I feel like I'm playing a game of chess, I don't get that impression fighting any other class. I don't know how powerful they are just climbing into the driver seat, but the ones you see out there ganking in Cyro, that are likely the source of all the recent QQ, are exceptionally skilled at what they are doing. If you make the mistake and think you are losing to them because they are easymode, no amount of nerfing will help you win that fight because you are not clearly reading your opponent.

Ezareth

Armitas wrote: »

When I fight a sorc I feel like I'm playing a game of chess, I don't get that impression fighting any other class. I don't know how powerful they are just climbing into the driver seat, but the ones you see out there ganking in Cyro, that are likely the source of all the recent QQ, are exceptionally skilled at what they are doing. If you make the mistake and think you are losing to them because they are easymode, no amount of nerfing will help you win that fight.

That's the feeling I get when I find myself fighting a 2-hander DK. If I make 1 mistake it's checkmate. If I forget to recast me shields or let my stamina drop below the critical threshold for even a moment I could die. I know if I can fight long enough I'll usually win but there are a lot of other sustain DKs out there now running similar builds to mine if they make a mistake unless its a critical one (like dodge rolling through all 5 of my mines...I love that) it usually doesn't cost them the fight.

I'm fine with the way this is however as I much prefer the fighting challenge than having something nerfed to be easy for me to kill.

TheBucket

Ezareth wrote: »

And you have to have 3K+ Magicka regen to even come close to being able to spam shields against a wrecking blow/lethal arrow spam. I've literally spent the majority of my mana bar just chain casting hardened ward as fast as possible while the arrows blotted out the sun. Most of the time if I stop to cast a single spell I'm dead unless I do my tried and true dodge-roll cast ( =

No you don't need that much regen. Just good management.

Out of all the classes. Sorcs are the best against WB spammers.

Semfim

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

That is an excellent point. Everyone is different and has a different play style. There are different classes with different styles. While someone can adapt to a different class, they will probably not excel at anything other than what matches them and what they are comfortable with playing.
While asking others to try a class out seems like a good idea, it may not be the end result that is needed.

Couldn't agree more. I played a NB from release and for the life of me couldnt get a decent build other than healer. I mean a build that worked for me. I've been having loads of fun with Sorc, which is now vr5, because I "understand" the class... Dungeon DPS achievs have been rolling in, I can survive fights in in Cyro (my NB should have been named Come Get Your Free AP), soloing public dungeons and all the things the hip boys and girls took for granted.

My take? I found a class I like to play and which suits my playstyle. Anyone who is up to their skeever knickers on the "Rise of.." threads should consider whats more fun for them, then they would find ways to solve their problems without all the outrage. If that doesnt work go on "the other" sub-forums (pvp for pve people, pve for pvp people) as its funny as hell to compare.

Mind you, you lot probably know a lot more of how stuff works than me and if you are comparing min max stuff between classes i bet there are differences. Me? I always do my own builds, sometimes I feel good (survivng full raid on full raid sieges with a vr5 on the front line and do a heck of AoE damage is fun), sometimes I feel bad (running out of stam as light armor blocker in 1.6 ain't a preety sight), but mainly they are my fails or victories cause thats the fun ESO has for me: creating solutions to problems.

Guess thats my idea of a good time. Maybe for others is learning whats the easiest way to be top dog, but as MMO's go, you better start lvling those 4 classes to max lvl, cause what is good now might be the worst in the next patch.

TheBonesXXX

It's FOTM lottery, this month its bubble stacking + hiding behind BoL and infinite dodgeroll + Wreckingblow spam with unlimited resources. Before 1.6 it was holding block + and press dragon scale, more blocking and blinking around.

To say it's balanced though.. you wouldn't see everyone doing it.

Vis

Mumyo wrote: »

lol, just listen to urself.

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

It's FOTM lottery, this month its bubble stacking + hiding behind BoL and infinite dodgeroll + Wreckingblow spam with unlimited resources. Before 1.6 it was holding block + and press dragon scale, more blocking and blinking around.

To say it's balanced though.. you wouldn't see everyone doing it.

Still a better game than holding block and spamming insta-casts. Hiding behind BOL? What? Are you incapable of any melee or bow attacks?

I am not going to say L2P. Your case is more mad cuz bad.

TheBucket

Usually by the second fear Sorcs are dead for me. Unless they pot. Then its 3 fears before death

Kypho

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

the thing is, sorc was hard to learn because we always fall behind on dps, so we actually had to really improve our skills, so when a vr14 skilled sorc player suddenly gets some valid skills for pvp survivability, we can already adapt them into the skills we already have been harnessing for this last year.

thats why we harder to kill now, due to skill, and learning our class.

I have loved sorc for a year, and will love sorc for the next year

I couldnt agree more, people crying because they got beaten by players who have been playing sorcs since launch and think the class is OP while in fact its the players skill that makes it strong. Mainly due to the fact the class was onderpowered before 1.6 and the good players have learned to deal with those disadvantages.

The class balance is at its best point right now, if someone knows how to play his class they're hard to beat. I have NB guild mates who can beat most good sorcs for example. If you know your own class and your opponents class well, every class is defeatable. That having said, some classes work better against other classes but thats only logical.

Defending OPness pathetic....
I know a 2 year old child in RL who defeated 2 black belt karate masters in 3 sec.
As for zenifail game, the ESO: I got hit with snipe for 20023145322100000000 dmg!!!!!

Do you belive it? If you dont, then dont belive that sorcs arent OP...

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Sorc isn't OP but is much stronger in PvP in 1.6, you cannot argue that. I remember first starting PvP and getting face rolled by sorcs and DK's then I practiced and practiced and now I focus on killing the player not just the build. Heck, I consider my build pretty nasty and I'm and NB. Every class can be "OP" when played correctly. Some classes are easier to play than others though *DK's cough cough*.

Though it would be nice to have such an awesome shield like sorc hahahaha! Double take is good though, I'll take it.

SafiyerAmitora

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Every class can be "OP" when played correctly. Some classes are easier to play than others though *DK's cough cough*.

Yup. DK is quite easy to play, a bit more so than nb. Now, since I'm trying to lvl a Sorc and Templar, I'll have to figure out builds for them and get used to them. I have to say, they seem much harder to play than nb and dk, but I hope that as I start to get them closer to v14, they'll be a lot easier.

Ezareth

TheBucket wrote: »

Usually by the second fear Sorcs are dead for me. Unless they pot. Then its 3 fears before death

Unless they are stamina regen specced specifically because of fear-bomb NBs/Petrify spam DKs as I am. I rarely run out of stamina any more. Now it's just the burst and bugs that kill me.

TheBucket

Ezareth wrote: »

TheBucket wrote: »

Usually by the second fear Sorcs are dead for me. Unless they pot. Then its 3 fears before death

Unless they are stamina regen specced specifically because of fear-bomb NBs/Petrify spam DKs as I am. I rarely run out of stamina any more. Now it's just the burst and bugs that kill me.

Yeah. Ill get you down in a few fears.