To Everyone Complaining About Sorcerers

LegendaryMage

Germtrocity is a great sorc, one of the best I fought. I wish I didn't have a few months off of the magicka spec, but our fights are still intense and can go either way. Whoever takes his challenge should know they're in for a good fight.

I'd like to duel Germ again on the pts, and more NA sorcs. So if anyone is up for it, just message me. I might be able to bring in some Arena guildies too.

@AltusVenifus For the last couple of months I have played a stamina sorcerer without any class shields (or shields at all). It is possible to win vs top players, just extremely hard and only if played perfectly. I have dropped the spec because it's practically classless and sorcerer doesn't bring anything unique to the table in terms of 1v1 when on stamina spec. So yes, sorcerer can win without shields, just highly unlikely vs good players.

Psilent

Challenge Accepted; see you in a few weeks.

Spangla

Artemiisia wrote: »

the thing is, sorc was hard to learn because we always fall behind on dps, so we actually had to really improve our skills, so when a vr14 skilled sorc player suddenly gets some valid skills for pvp survivability, we can already adapt them into the skills we already have been harnessing for this last year.

thats why we harder to kill now, due to skill, and learning our class.

I have loved sorc for a year, and will love sorc for the next year

Highly amusing arrogance from sorcs the queens of whining;) really skilful and difficult to design a sorc build! I'll stack one stat that'll give me dps/defence and escape - easy mode!

Get real sorcs dear god! You are genuinely more like an ostrich than the dk flip flap army! Highly amusing reading this thread thanks for the entertainment!

scy22b14_ESO

With a little effort, sorcs have attained nigh infinite magicka.

Infinite mana = infinite shields = infinite health.
infinite mana = infinite bolt escapes.

This equates to the tankiest class in the game with the best escape in the game. Lets sprinkle in ridiculous burst damage potential, with a spammable overload ult that light attacks for 10-15k.

Anyone who says sorcs aren't overpowered simply hasn't PVPd enough to make their opinions worth listening to.

Vanzen

Am not even complaining about sorcerers anymore, I ve gone beyond.
I ignore them.
I ve decided that I wont chase/target/kill/duel them or whatever. Its my way of protesting vs a class that I think is not even playing the same game as the rest of us.
Fortunately, as a dk, if I dont try to kill them, they have hard time killing me.

Da Sandman

People are just jelly they have to walk.

jelliedsoup

Thanks Op very funny. All sorcs do the same thing bolt, ward, fragments, overload or perhaps another dps. But yes it's skill that you can absorb damage.

Ezareth

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Germtrocity is a great sorc, one of the best I fought. I wish I didn't have a few months off of the magicka spec, but our fights are still intense and can go either way. Whoever takes his challenge should know they're in for a good fight.

I'd like to duel Germ again on the pts, and more NA sorcs. So if anyone is up for it, just message me. I might be able to bring in some Arena guildies too.

@AltusVenifus For the last couple of months I have played a stamina sorcerer without any class shields (or shields at all). It is possible to win vs top players, just extremely hard and only if played perfectly. I have dropped the spec because it's practically classless and sorcerer doesn't bring anything unique to the table in terms of 1v1 when on stamina spec. So yes, sorcerer can win without shields, just highly unlikely vs good players.

Just be careful, he knows how to bug Ball of Lightning nearly 100%.

I actually finally learned how to do this myself while watching another Sorc do it to me this weekend. So many damn bugs in this game...

Without Ball of Lightning working and shields effectively negating the stun of defensive posture correctly Destro Staff owns all in sorc duels.

Vanzen wrote: »

Am not even complaining about sorcerers anymore, I ve gone beyond.
I ignore them.
I ve decided that I wont chase/target/kill/duel them or whatever. Its my way of protesting vs a class that I think is not even playing the same game as the rest of us.
Fortunately, as a dk, if I dont try to kill them, they have hard time killing me.

No sorc has can bolt escape infinitely, I'm as close to any to be able to do that and I've got a long way to go. Even fully reduced it just costs too much right now. Give me another 600 champion points or so however...

jelliedsoup

Teargrants wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

So the way I see it.

Sorc v Sorc is a wash, whoever is better
Sorc v DK favors the Sorc if the Sorc is built specifically to kill DKs, otherwise the Sorc is either going to die or going to run.
Sorc v NB favors the NB in most builds (especially if its the standard magicka LA sorc vs stamina med bow/dw nb).
Sorc v Templar rarely gets decided, both classes has so much built in shielding (and temp heals while lacking range to keep up with bolt escape)

So yeah, in a lot of cases its learn to play, but with mastered classes, there is a strong argument that Sorc is the most powerful of the classes in the right hands.

All assuming everyone is playing a glass cannon/1vX type build. Sorcs completely dump all over any sort of dedicated attrition build while still having strong attrition themselves. We don't have a chance in hell to get through your hardened ward since we aren't bursting, yet you can often put together enough spike damage to take us out even if we're in heavy armor. All the while you maintain pretty solid regen rates. It makes no sense. I actually have to make defensive sacrifices as a NB caster if I want to put together some burst. Likewise, I have to give up burst to have any level of meaningful defense. If we try to straddle the line between offense and defense like you are currently able to do, we fail at both.

Sorcs currently aren't required to focus on anything. Just pump Spellpower/Magicka and have a decent amount of health and your skills take care of the rest for you. It reminds me of WoW frost Mages when they were in their prime. Good burst (not the best, but close) with some pretty amazing defensive skills/cooldowns. No real downside. Then compare to Affliction Warlocks- a playstyle dedicated to sustained damage/longer fights- yet the Mage burst build has better defenses, not to mention the general utility of burst being more valuable for taking out key targets vs. slow DoT damage.

I'm not blaming y'all. Sorcs have a high skill cap for sure, but I wish MMO developers would learn their lesson about making sure every class/build has specific strengths and weaknesses. I don't know if its ignorance or they're playing favorites, but its getting frustrating being a defensive/sustain minded player and seeing these burst builds in multiple MMOs handed everything on a silver platter.

Long winded, but completely missing the point. If you aren't playing a burst build, you don't flail away at the shields, you attack their stamina. A CC'd sorc cannot cast shields and will die in one dmg rotation of they don't CC break immediately.

You think sorcs like me just pump everything into spell dmg/magicka like potatoes and proceed to face roll the keyboard? Wrong. I have to put everything I can into high magicka and stamina regen above all else, or else I get CC'd and die when I can't break.

When you bolt escape constantly amongst 10 people taking no damage that's poor design. Im sure you think its due to skill, much like [snip] does.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Naming & Shaming]

Ezareth

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

So the way I see it.

Sorc v Sorc is a wash, whoever is better
Sorc v DK favors the Sorc if the Sorc is built specifically to kill DKs, otherwise the Sorc is either going to die or going to run.
Sorc v NB favors the NB in most builds (especially if its the standard magicka LA sorc vs stamina med bow/dw nb).
Sorc v Templar rarely gets decided, both classes has so much built in shielding (and temp heals while lacking range to keep up with bolt escape)

So yeah, in a lot of cases its learn to play, but with mastered classes, there is a strong argument that Sorc is the most powerful of the classes in the right hands.

All assuming everyone is playing a glass cannon/1vX type build. Sorcs completely dump all over any sort of dedicated attrition build while still having strong attrition themselves. We don't have a chance in hell to get through your hardened ward since we aren't bursting, yet you can often put together enough spike damage to take us out even if we're in heavy armor. All the while you maintain pretty solid regen rates. It makes no sense. I actually have to make defensive sacrifices as a NB caster if I want to put together some burst. Likewise, I have to give up burst to have any level of meaningful defense. If we try to straddle the line between offense and defense like you are currently able to do, we fail at both.

Sorcs currently aren't required to focus on anything. Just pump Spellpower/Magicka and have a decent amount of health and your skills take care of the rest for you. It reminds me of WoW frost Mages when they were in their prime. Good burst (not the best, but close) with some pretty amazing defensive skills/cooldowns. No real downside. Then compare to Affliction Warlocks- a playstyle dedicated to sustained damage/longer fights- yet the Mage burst build has better defenses, not to mention the general utility of burst being more valuable for taking out key targets vs. slow DoT damage.

I'm not blaming y'all. Sorcs have a high skill cap for sure, but I wish MMO developers would learn their lesson about making sure every class/build has specific strengths and weaknesses. I don't know if its ignorance or they're playing favorites, but its getting frustrating being a defensive/sustain minded player and seeing these burst builds in multiple MMOs handed everything on a silver platter.

Long winded, but completely missing the point. If you aren't playing a burst build, you don't flail away at the shields, you attack their stamina. A CC'd sorc cannot cast shields and will die in one dmg rotation of they don't CC break immediately.

You think sorcs like me just pump everything into spell dmg/magicka like potatoes and proceed to face roll the keyboard? Wrong. I have to put everything I can into high magicka and stamina regen above all else, or else I get CC'd and die when I can't break.

When you bolt escape constantly amongst 10 people taking no damage that's poor design. Im sure you think its due to skill, much like [snip] does.

Except he's not using an exploit to do it and he dies. 10 people would take Teargrants down *instantly* if he were in the middle of them. I've taken him down with far less and he's done the same to me. The difference is we play along the edges and it isn't really fighting 10 people at once, there is just 10 people trying to run after us in which case he's not fighting them at all.

I'm running less than *1700* spell power right now to maintain my survivability and sustainability. My spells hit like a wet noodle (with the exception of Overload) and there are freaking players that are spiking up to *4800* weapon damage.

Just because you don't get to kill every player you lay eyes on just because doesn't make them OP.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Erock25

scy22b14_ESO wrote: »

Infinite mana = infinite shields = infinite health.

hhhehehhehehHAHHAHAHHHOOHhhohhhHAHA

That was a good one.

scy22b14_ESO wrote: »

Anyone who says sorcs aren't overpowered simply hasn't PVPd enough to make their opinions worth listening to.

Anyone who says sorcs are overpowered simply hasn't played one themselves.

Kypho

Ohh now PLS Zenimax just... BAN ME PLS

I have enough from these QQ from Sorcerers (OPcerers). Enough how they try to defend their easymode crap class. All who has all class know how OP they are, and not talking about PvE, but i dont have problem with it in PvE anyway.

You all defender of OPness are pathetic. Its annoying and stupid now, that its not enough that you defending it with all possible way, you even want to nerf anything what makes you lose the ward, or if you are ....bad... enough that you afking, 2 or 3 snipe will kill you (fyi: you can hear the sound of snipe, even if you are on horse.....) And if you cant streak away from anyone.... its only your fault.

Just ban me pls, so i will be unable to see all this misleading stuff and how they try to defend this BS what you did zenimax......

LameoveR

DEL wrong thread

Kypho

Erock25 wrote: »

scy22b14_ESO wrote: »

Infinite mana = infinite shields = infinite health.

hhhehehhehehHAHHAHAHHHOOHhhohhhHAHA

That was a good one.

scy22b14_ESO wrote: »

Anyone who says sorcs aren't overpowered simply hasn't PVPd enough to make their opinions worth listening to.

Anyone who says sorcs are overpowered simply hasn't played one themselves.

Another lie. i have sorc. and seems need to play it for long time now HAHA....just boring after a while....

Cant wait the era of DK. It was better.....

LegendaryMage

Ezareth wrote: »

Just be careful, he knows how to bug Ball of Lightning nearly 100%.

I actually finally learned how to do this myself while watching another Sorc do it to me this weekend. So many damn bugs in this game...

Without Ball of Lightning working and shields effectively negating the stun of defensive posture correctly Destro Staff owns all in sorc duels.

I asked him what he uses so I remorphed back to streak, we're fighting with streak and no pots to make fights as short as possible. It's been lots of fun.

Makkir

Draehl wrote: »

I wouldn't argue that it has a high skill cap and would very much agree with you. No one is scoffing at your skill for pulling off what you do. The problem is the level of offense, defense AND mobility a single build is able to achieve. Hardened Ward scales off offensive stats which allows strong offense + defense, and Ball Lightning is an amazingly strong escape tool that makes many forms of CC useless. No one character should have all three strengths covered regardless of player skill being required. You need to have legitimate weaknesses for other players to counter with. That is currently not the case and is what needs to be remedied.

Stamina.

DisgracefulMind

Vanzen wrote: »

Am not even complaining about sorcerers anymore, I ve gone beyond.
I ignore them.
I ve decided that I wont chase/target/kill/duel them or whatever. Its my way of protesting vs a class that I think is not even playing the same game as the rest of us.
Fortunately, as a dk, if I dont try to kill them, they have hard time killing me.

The fact that you're a DK screaming that a class is OP is hilarious.

Xsorus

Teargrants wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

So the way I see it.

Sorc v Sorc is a wash, whoever is better
Sorc v DK favors the Sorc if the Sorc is built specifically to kill DKs, otherwise the Sorc is either going to die or going to run.
Sorc v NB favors the NB in most builds (especially if its the standard magicka LA sorc vs stamina med bow/dw nb).
Sorc v Templar rarely gets decided, both classes has so much built in shielding (and temp heals while lacking range to keep up with bolt escape)

So yeah, in a lot of cases its learn to play, but with mastered classes, there is a strong argument that Sorc is the most powerful of the classes in the right hands.

All assuming everyone is playing a glass cannon/1vX type build. Sorcs completely dump all over any sort of dedicated attrition build while still having strong attrition themselves. We don't have a chance in hell to get through your hardened ward since we aren't bursting, yet you can often put together enough spike damage to take us out even if we're in heavy armor. All the while you maintain pretty solid regen rates. It makes no sense. I actually have to make defensive sacrifices as a NB caster if I want to put together some burst. Likewise, I have to give up burst to have any level of meaningful defense. If we try to straddle the line between offense and defense like you are currently able to do, we fail at both.

Sorcs currently aren't required to focus on anything. Just pump Spellpower/Magicka and have a decent amount of health and your skills take care of the rest for you. It reminds me of WoW frost Mages when they were in their prime. Good burst (not the best, but close) with some pretty amazing defensive skills/cooldowns. No real downside. Then compare to Affliction Warlocks- a playstyle dedicated to sustained damage/longer fights- yet the Mage burst build has better defenses, not to mention the general utility of burst being more valuable for taking out key targets vs. slow DoT damage.

I'm not blaming y'all. Sorcs have a high skill cap for sure, but I wish MMO developers would learn their lesson about making sure every class/build has specific strengths and weaknesses. I don't know if its ignorance or they're playing favorites, but its getting frustrating being a defensive/sustain minded player and seeing these burst builds in multiple MMOs handed everything on a silver platter.

Long winded, but completely missing the point. If you aren't playing a burst build, you don't flail away at the shields, you attack their stamina. A CC'd sorc cannot cast shields and will die in one dmg rotation of they don't CC break immediately.

You think sorcs like me just pump everything into spell dmg/magicka like potatoes and proceed to face roll the keyboard? Wrong. I have to put everything I can into high magicka and stamina regen above all else, or else I get CC'd and die when I can't break.

I've chased you all way from Glade to Ales before CCing you the whole way, and you broke out of the CC consistently. I never came close to killing you..The only time i've killed you is by stacking Weapon Damage/Stamina as much as possible

Having fought multiple sorcs CCing constantly..I can tell you..Unless you're running extreme burst builds..You're not going to win that fight.

You pretty much have to have over 3k Weapon Damage to even come close to fighting a Sorc right now.

Cinbri

Germtrocity wrote: »

To all of you crying out about how sorcerer is easy mode, I issue you a challenge : roll a sorcerer and fight me, or any other skilled sorcerer

I would definetly roll just to show you how OP sorcs now. But seems you didn't realize that this is not pts where you have vr14 template or you expecting that someone will lvl twink till vr14? As i said, the more posts i read defending OP the less reasonable logic in it.

Ezareth

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

So the way I see it.

Sorc v Sorc is a wash, whoever is better
Sorc v DK favors the Sorc if the Sorc is built specifically to kill DKs, otherwise the Sorc is either going to die or going to run.
Sorc v NB favors the NB in most builds (especially if its the standard magicka LA sorc vs stamina med bow/dw nb).
Sorc v Templar rarely gets decided, both classes has so much built in shielding (and temp heals while lacking range to keep up with bolt escape)

So yeah, in a lot of cases its learn to play, but with mastered classes, there is a strong argument that Sorc is the most powerful of the classes in the right hands.

All assuming everyone is playing a glass cannon/1vX type build. Sorcs completely dump all over any sort of dedicated attrition build while still having strong attrition themselves. We don't have a chance in hell to get through your hardened ward since we aren't bursting, yet you can often put together enough spike damage to take us out even if we're in heavy armor. All the while you maintain pretty solid regen rates. It makes no sense. I actually have to make defensive sacrifices as a NB caster if I want to put together some burst. Likewise, I have to give up burst to have any level of meaningful defense. If we try to straddle the line between offense and defense like you are currently able to do, we fail at both.

Sorcs currently aren't required to focus on anything. Just pump Spellpower/Magicka and have a decent amount of health and your skills take care of the rest for you. It reminds me of WoW frost Mages when they were in their prime. Good burst (not the best, but close) with some pretty amazing defensive skills/cooldowns. No real downside. Then compare to Affliction Warlocks- a playstyle dedicated to sustained damage/longer fights- yet the Mage burst build has better defenses, not to mention the general utility of burst being more valuable for taking out key targets vs. slow DoT damage.

I'm not blaming y'all. Sorcs have a high skill cap for sure, but I wish MMO developers would learn their lesson about making sure every class/build has specific strengths and weaknesses. I don't know if its ignorance or they're playing favorites, but its getting frustrating being a defensive/sustain minded player and seeing these burst builds in multiple MMOs handed everything on a silver platter.

Long winded, but completely missing the point. If you aren't playing a burst build, you don't flail away at the shields, you attack their stamina. A CC'd sorc cannot cast shields and will die in one dmg rotation of they don't CC break immediately.

You think sorcs like me just pump everything into spell dmg/magicka like potatoes and proceed to face roll the keyboard? Wrong. I have to put everything I can into high magicka and stamina regen above all else, or else I get CC'd and die when I can't break.

I've chased you all way from Glade to Ales before CCing you the whole way, and you broke out of the CC consistently. I never came close to killing you..The only time i've killed you is by stacking Weapon Damage/Stamina as much as possible

Having fought multiple sorcs CCing constantly..I can tell you..Unless you're running extreme burst builds..You're not going to win that fight.

You pretty much have to have over 3k Weapon Damage to even come close to fighting a Sorc right now.

And you have to have 3K+ Magicka regen to even come close to being able to spam shields against a wrecking blow/lethal arrow spam. I've literally spent the majority of my mana bar just chain casting hardened ward as fast as possible while the arrows blotted out the sun. Most of the time if I stop to cast a single spell I'm dead unless I do my tried and true dodge-roll cast ( =

Spangla

Ezareth wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

So the way I see it.

Sorc v Sorc is a wash, whoever is better
Sorc v DK favors the Sorc if the Sorc is built specifically to kill DKs, otherwise the Sorc is either going to die or going to run.
Sorc v NB favors the NB in most builds (especially if its the standard magicka LA sorc vs stamina med bow/dw nb).
Sorc v Templar rarely gets decided, both classes has so much built in shielding (and temp heals while lacking range to keep up with bolt escape)

So yeah, in a lot of cases its learn to play, but with mastered classes, there is a strong argument that Sorc is the most powerful of the classes in the right hands.

All assuming everyone is playing a glass cannon/1vX type build. Sorcs completely dump all over any sort of dedicated attrition build while still having strong attrition themselves. We don't have a chance in hell to get through your hardened ward since we aren't bursting, yet you can often put together enough spike damage to take us out even if we're in heavy armor. All the while you maintain pretty solid regen rates. It makes no sense. I actually have to make defensive sacrifices as a NB caster if I want to put together some burst. Likewise, I have to give up burst to have any level of meaningful defense. If we try to straddle the line between offense and defense like you are currently able to do, we fail at both.

Sorcs currently aren't required to focus on anything. Just pump Spellpower/Magicka and have a decent amount of health and your skills take care of the rest for you. It reminds me of WoW frost Mages when they were in their prime. Good burst (not the best, but close) with some pretty amazing defensive skills/cooldowns. No real downside. Then compare to Affliction Warlocks- a playstyle dedicated to sustained damage/longer fights- yet the Mage burst build has better defenses, not to mention the general utility of burst being more valuable for taking out key targets vs. slow DoT damage.

I'm not blaming y'all. Sorcs have a high skill cap for sure, but I wish MMO developers would learn their lesson about making sure every class/build has specific strengths and weaknesses. I don't know if its ignorance or they're playing favorites, but its getting frustrating being a defensive/sustain minded player and seeing these burst builds in multiple MMOs handed everything on a silver platter.

Long winded, but completely missing the point. If you aren't playing a burst build, you don't flail away at the shields, you attack their stamina. A CC'd sorc cannot cast shields and will die in one dmg rotation of they don't CC break immediately.

You think sorcs like me just pump everything into spell dmg/magicka like potatoes and proceed to face roll the keyboard? Wrong. I have to put everything I can into high magicka and stamina regen above all else, or else I get CC'd and die when I can't break.

I've chased you all way from Glade to Ales before CCing you the whole way, and you broke out of the CC consistently. I never came close to killing you..The only time i've killed you is by stacking Weapon Damage/Stamina as much as possible

Having fought multiple sorcs CCing constantly..I can tell you..Unless you're running extreme burst builds..You're not going to win that fight.

You pretty much have to have over 3k Weapon Damage to even come close to fighting a Sorc right now.

And you have to have 3K+ Magicka regen to even come close to being able to spam shields against a wrecking blow/lethal arrow spam. I've literally spent the majority of my mana bar just chain casting hardened ward as fast as possible while the arrows blotted out the sun. Most of the time if I stop to cast a single spell I'm dead unless I do my tried and true dodge-roll cast ( =

But this is the point right? The fact that you can spam that ward and negate that damage for so long whilst wearing light armour and still packing a punch yourself is the problem.

Ezareth

Spangla wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

So the way I see it.

Sorc v Sorc is a wash, whoever is better
Sorc v DK favors the Sorc if the Sorc is built specifically to kill DKs, otherwise the Sorc is either going to die or going to run.
Sorc v NB favors the NB in most builds (especially if its the standard magicka LA sorc vs stamina med bow/dw nb).
Sorc v Templar rarely gets decided, both classes has so much built in shielding (and temp heals while lacking range to keep up with bolt escape)

So yeah, in a lot of cases its learn to play, but with mastered classes, there is a strong argument that Sorc is the most powerful of the classes in the right hands.

All assuming everyone is playing a glass cannon/1vX type build. Sorcs completely dump all over any sort of dedicated attrition build while still having strong attrition themselves. We don't have a chance in hell to get through your hardened ward since we aren't bursting, yet you can often put together enough spike damage to take us out even if we're in heavy armor. All the while you maintain pretty solid regen rates. It makes no sense. I actually have to make defensive sacrifices as a NB caster if I want to put together some burst. Likewise, I have to give up burst to have any level of meaningful defense. If we try to straddle the line between offense and defense like you are currently able to do, we fail at both.

Sorcs currently aren't required to focus on anything. Just pump Spellpower/Magicka and have a decent amount of health and your skills take care of the rest for you. It reminds me of WoW frost Mages when they were in their prime. Good burst (not the best, but close) with some pretty amazing defensive skills/cooldowns. No real downside. Then compare to Affliction Warlocks- a playstyle dedicated to sustained damage/longer fights- yet the Mage burst build has better defenses, not to mention the general utility of burst being more valuable for taking out key targets vs. slow DoT damage.

I'm not blaming y'all. Sorcs have a high skill cap for sure, but I wish MMO developers would learn their lesson about making sure every class/build has specific strengths and weaknesses. I don't know if its ignorance or they're playing favorites, but its getting frustrating being a defensive/sustain minded player and seeing these burst builds in multiple MMOs handed everything on a silver platter.

Long winded, but completely missing the point. If you aren't playing a burst build, you don't flail away at the shields, you attack their stamina. A CC'd sorc cannot cast shields and will die in one dmg rotation of they don't CC break immediately.

You think sorcs like me just pump everything into spell dmg/magicka like potatoes and proceed to face roll the keyboard? Wrong. I have to put everything I can into high magicka and stamina regen above all else, or else I get CC'd and die when I can't break.

I've chased you all way from Glade to Ales before CCing you the whole way, and you broke out of the CC consistently. I never came close to killing you..The only time i've killed you is by stacking Weapon Damage/Stamina as much as possible

Having fought multiple sorcs CCing constantly..I can tell you..Unless you're running extreme burst builds..You're not going to win that fight.

You pretty much have to have over 3k Weapon Damage to even come close to fighting a Sorc right now.

And you have to have 3K+ Magicka regen to even come close to being able to spam shields against a wrecking blow/lethal arrow spam. I've literally spent the majority of my mana bar just chain casting hardened ward as fast as possible while the arrows blotted out the sun. Most of the time if I stop to cast a single spell I'm dead unless I do my tried and true dodge-roll cast ( =

But this is the point right? The fact that you can spam that ward and negate that damage for so long whilst wearing light armour and still packing a punch yourself is the problem.

Yes I can absorb a ton of damage from 1-2 players while doing nothing but spamming shields. This is no different than a DK holding block. As soon as 2 players become 3 or 4 or those players start using CC I have to run (if I can) or die.

How is that a problem as I'm build specifically for it? My damage is far weaker than most "glass cannon" sorcs out there. I am *not* a damage build and 28K magicka doesn't make your spells hit hard if you don't have any spell power yet alone spell penetration.

olsborg

Theres just alot of dedicated sorcerors out there, who have played nothing but their one class since launch, ofcourse you get good at it then.

k2blader

Spangla wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

So the way I see it.

Sorc v Sorc is a wash, whoever is better
Sorc v DK favors the Sorc if the Sorc is built specifically to kill DKs, otherwise the Sorc is either going to die or going to run.
Sorc v NB favors the NB in most builds (especially if its the standard magicka LA sorc vs stamina med bow/dw nb).
Sorc v Templar rarely gets decided, both classes has so much built in shielding (and temp heals while lacking range to keep up with bolt escape)

So yeah, in a lot of cases its learn to play, but with mastered classes, there is a strong argument that Sorc is the most powerful of the classes in the right hands.

All assuming everyone is playing a glass cannon/1vX type build. Sorcs completely dump all over any sort of dedicated attrition build while still having strong attrition themselves. We don't have a chance in hell to get through your hardened ward since we aren't bursting, yet you can often put together enough spike damage to take us out even if we're in heavy armor. All the while you maintain pretty solid regen rates. It makes no sense. I actually have to make defensive sacrifices as a NB caster if I want to put together some burst. Likewise, I have to give up burst to have any level of meaningful defense. If we try to straddle the line between offense and defense like you are currently able to do, we fail at both.

Sorcs currently aren't required to focus on anything. Just pump Spellpower/Magicka and have a decent amount of health and your skills take care of the rest for you. It reminds me of WoW frost Mages when they were in their prime. Good burst (not the best, but close) with some pretty amazing defensive skills/cooldowns. No real downside. Then compare to Affliction Warlocks- a playstyle dedicated to sustained damage/longer fights- yet the Mage burst build has better defenses, not to mention the general utility of burst being more valuable for taking out key targets vs. slow DoT damage.

I'm not blaming y'all. Sorcs have a high skill cap for sure, but I wish MMO developers would learn their lesson about making sure every class/build has specific strengths and weaknesses. I don't know if its ignorance or they're playing favorites, but its getting frustrating being a defensive/sustain minded player and seeing these burst builds in multiple MMOs handed everything on a silver platter.

Long winded, but completely missing the point. If you aren't playing a burst build, you don't flail away at the shields, you attack their stamina. A CC'd sorc cannot cast shields and will die in one dmg rotation of they don't CC break immediately.

You think sorcs like me just pump everything into spell dmg/magicka like potatoes and proceed to face roll the keyboard? Wrong. I have to put everything I can into high magicka and stamina regen above all else, or else I get CC'd and die when I can't break.

I've chased you all way from Glade to Ales before CCing you the whole way, and you broke out of the CC consistently. I never came close to killing you..The only time i've killed you is by stacking Weapon Damage/Stamina as much as possible

Having fought multiple sorcs CCing constantly..I can tell you..Unless you're running extreme burst builds..You're not going to win that fight.

You pretty much have to have over 3k Weapon Damage to even come close to fighting a Sorc right now.

And you have to have 3K+ Magicka regen to even come close to being able to spam shields against a wrecking blow/lethal arrow spam. I've literally spent the majority of my mana bar just chain casting hardened ward as fast as possible while the arrows blotted out the sun. Most of the time if I stop to cast a single spell I'm dead unless I do my tried and true dodge-roll cast ( =

But this is the point right? The fact that you can spam that ward and negate that damage for so long whilst wearing light armour and still packing a punch yourself is the problem.

I am curious what kind of damage magicka-regen sorcs do. I'm guessing it's moderate/average and their fights are based on outlasting their opponents. I don't read the forums as much as I'd like but I've never seen sorcs other than P-T post typical damage numbers, so I just don't know. Maybe some wouldn't mind sharing. The damage from sorcs in my death recaps has not been that much different from damage from other classes, in general, and is typically lower than at least a few other non-sorc abilities folks complain about. So.. I don't see how any sorc other than a glass cannon (i.e. squish-me) spell damage sorc would be packing any greater punch than the average for any class.

Ezareth

k2blader wrote: »

I am curious what kind of damage magicka-regen sorcs do. I'm guessing it's moderate/average and their fights are based on outlasting their opponents. I don't read the forums as much as I'd like but I've never seen sorcs other than P-T post typical damage numbers, so I just don't know. Maybe some wouldn't mind sharing. The damage from sorcs in my death recaps has not been that much different from damage from other classes, in general, and is typically lower than at least a few other non-sorc abilities folks complain about. So.. I don't see how any sorc other than a glass cannon (i.e. squish-me) spell damage sorc would be packing any greater punch than the average for any class.

Don't talk sense. This is a nerf Sorc thread...therefor only innuendo, misinformation, or blatant exaggeration will do.

jelliedsoup

Ezareth wrote: »

[Just because you don't get to kill every player you lay eyes on just because doesn't make them OP.

Exaggeration doesnt help your propaganda.

I realise all sorcs are more skillful which is why you appear op.

k2blader

Ezareth wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

I am curious what kind of damage magicka-regen sorcs do. I'm guessing it's moderate/average and their fights are based on outlasting their opponents. I don't read the forums as much as I'd like but I've never seen sorcs other than P-T post typical damage numbers, so I just don't know. Maybe some wouldn't mind sharing. The damage from sorcs in my death recaps has not been that much different from damage from other classes, in general, and is typically lower than at least a few other non-sorc abilities folks complain about. So.. I don't see how any sorc other than a glass cannon (i.e. squish-me) spell damage sorc would be packing any greater punch than the average for any class.

Don't talk sense. This is a nerf Sorc thread...therefor only innuendo, misinformation, or blatant exaggeration will do.

Aww Ezareth, I was hoping you'd post some numbers to prove my point. :-) Anyhow, based only on my meager experiences of last night, even one of the most notorious EP sorcs (Thorn NA) who happened to hit me did rather average-seeming damage, though how he got 7 hits to land in literally 1 second is perhaps a more substantive issue for discussion..

Germtrocity

k2blader wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

I am curious what kind of damage magicka-regen sorcs do. I'm guessing it's moderate/average and their fights are based on outlasting their opponents. I don't read the forums as much as I'd like but I've never seen sorcs other than P-T post typical damage numbers, so I just don't know. Maybe some wouldn't mind sharing. The damage from sorcs in my death recaps has not been that much different from damage from other classes, in general, and is typically lower than at least a few other non-sorc abilities folks complain about. So.. I don't see how any sorc other than a glass cannon (i.e. squish-me) spell damage sorc would be packing any greater punch than the average for any class.

Don't talk sense. This is a nerf Sorc thread...therefor only innuendo, misinformation, or blatant exaggeration will do.

Aww Ezareth, I was hoping you'd post some numbers to prove my point. :-) Anyhow, based only on my meager experiences of last night, even one of the most notorious EP sorcs (Thorn NA) who happened to hit me did rather average-seeming damage, though how he got 7 hits to land in literally 1 second is perhaps a more substantive issue for discussion..

Blinkxey strikes again?

Sylveria_Relden

Anyone complaining about how *underpowered* sorcs are should have played DW NB Medium Armor from release... we'd get killed if a mob merely looked in our direction.

Oh and let's not mention how broken Sneaking was from inception... oh wait, I guess I did just mention it.

On a positive note, they are tons better now. I actually managed to surpass my Sorc (which I passed my NB up with when Sorcs were FOTM) which is surprising.

Xeniph

Rylana wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I changed to Sorcerer from DK at the end of 1.5. All I have to say, I facerolled people with my DK easily all the time, and still can with my stam DK if I ever get on her. It's not so easy for my Sorc.

I practice pretty relentlessly on Sorc to keep up with my partner, and it DEFINITELY takes a lot more skill than my DK ever did. I love Sorc just for that alone, the skill it takes.

I think too many people have a MAJOR l2p issue going on with Sorcs lol. I die all the time to your snipes and wrecking blows, what's the problem here?

Having v14s in all four classes, with weeks worth of /played on each of them, i gotta say that sorc is the hardest class to master. But once mastered, it has the potential to be the most powerful class in the game.

I always get a kick out of DKs are OP threads, or anything is OP threads. DK has always had the same basic weaknesses throughout ESO. They can be kited mercilessly, and there aint a thing they can do about it. Even if you cant kill the dk, you as a sorc can ensure there is no way in hell that DK ever kills you.

Nightblade is probably the most dangerous class for a sorc to face, not because of "burst" damage or crowd control abilities, but because when built for it, its the only class other than a sorc that can keep up with one.

Templars just get screwed in this rock paper scissors. Neither should ever die to each other, but templar has no prayer of beating an on par played sorc.

So the way I see it.

Sorc v Sorc is a wash, whoever is better
Sorc v DK favors the Sorc if the Sorc is built specifically to kill DKs, otherwise the Sorc is either going to die or going to run.
Sorc v NB favors the NB in most builds (especially if its the standard magicka LA sorc vs stamina med bow/dw nb).
Sorc v Templar rarely gets decided, both classes has so much built in shielding (and temp heals while lacking range to keep up with bolt escape)

So yeah, in a lot of cases its learn to play, but with mastered classes, there is a strong argument that Sorc is the most powerful of the classes in the right hands.

Pretty much this.

I found the Sorc too easy mode in 1.4-1.5, but in 1.6 it's really no contest. They have the steepest learning curve yes, but the most potential once learned imo. Again, so much so that I just don't play it anymore.