Damage shields should act like temporary hit points

Snit

My sorc gets burst down from Shielded + Full Health to zero in the time it takes to break free. This happens on a regular basis, with 20k health and 27k magicka, and it's always against medium armor stam builds.

Obviously, this doesn't happen every time. It happens often enough against melee builds that I can conclude this: If you don't know how to combine CC and Burst to explode sorcerers, the issue is not sorc class design.

I am running a destro/ resto "kill stuff" build focused more on spell damage than sustain. So it's not the sorc version of a tank build. But any class can build tanky.

Tankqull

Soarin' wrote: »

Let us note that all the other active defence options apart from shields somehow gimp your ability to also provide steady dps, either by need to use instant cast abilities for blocking or not being able to do anything in the case of dodge rolling.

Also comparatively speaking the amount of magika resource used for damage negated with a shield is much lower than that of a stamina based comparable active skill like blocking or rolling.

Feel free to provide information contrary to this if you can find it.

WTF - the only shield that is not denying an attack while aplying it is the templer shield wich is nolonger beeing complained at. all other shields prohibit as much attacks to be done by the caster as roll dodging prohibits attacks done by the roler.
casting a shield cost exactly as much as rolling once with the same amount of attention used for the reduction of it, and in both cases it increases the amount of possible attacks the same way. while shields are gone after 1-2 attacks while rolling can prevent from 1- infinite numbers of attacks.

so WTF are you smoking?

Merlin13KAGL

Bashev wrote: »

Petrify, Streak, Luminous Shards, Feer and Agony all work through block. You will always get CCed.

So will a Sorc, so will a NB, what's your point? Referring to the damage from each of those, it's all magicka based, LA shield available to any class would help mitigate some of that.

Bashev wrote: »

Magicka pool is everything for the Sors class. More magicka means more shields, you do not take damage. More magicka means great dps. You hit very hard (light attack, heavy attakc, skills, ulitmates). More magicka means oh *** I have to bolt escape 10 times in a row to save my life, fill recourses and come back to fight again. I dont speak for a total glass cannot build. Just a normal one with 20-25k HP and rest magicka. If you dont see this synergy you are blind.

Every battle is a resource battle. You make it sound as though Sorcs never die.

We already established more of the primary resource gives you higher Damage - same for stamina builds. Stamina synergy: more stamina based DPS, more break free, more roll dodge/interrupt, more sprint...

Every skill out there has it's counter or counterpart. Those are what you have to learn to use to your advantage.

At 25k Magicka, you have enough for 8 BE's and then you're out of your primary resource. If I'm out of range of you, you're out of range of me - no one's doing damage to anyone else. (And that's if I haven't used the shield 'synergy' you refer to, that's starting at full bar)

Also, while I'm recovering resources, so are you. It's not as one-sided as you would have it sound.

All that being said, if you're dying from Light and Heavy attacks (not talking Overload), sounds like you need to counter ranged with ranged. It takes 2BE's to be out of range of almost any other gap closer. The stun from it, which subsequently gives you immunity for the 5 second period, lasts a whole 1.5 seconds - it's hardly worth breaking out of.

You have access to the same food, the same potions, the same gear, and most of the same skills...

There are gaps in skills, there are gaps in timing. There are ways to do it. During those CC breaks and BE's, we're not moving. We're not self-healing. We're not damaging you. If you're not taking advantage of these moments, you will lose in the end. Also, if they are bolting away to save their life, they're also not killing you.

A fight where no one dies is nothing more than an armor repair bill. (Well, it would be, but Sorcs don't take damage, right?)

I really don't think your complaint is a Sorc issue. I think your complaint is a build issue. It sounds like you might consider revamping yours to use your class to be able to deal with the other three.

Tankqull

Bashev wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I'm having some serious De Ja Vu, here.
Templars and DK's screwed by which new mechanic? What penetrates block? It downs your stamina, it was always ]

Petrify, Streak, Luminous Shards, Feer and Agony all work through block. You will always get CCed.

you can delete streak from that list as its cc component has been changed from disable to a stun(in 1.6) and thus does no longer circumvent block.

Bashev wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

nothing2591 wrote: »

sorcs and their shields are broken no point in playing stamina nightblade when sorcs can just shield for 100% of their hp with one press at a button while i have 0 healing.

Lol, you might want to think about draining your opponents stamina so he cant block/break free when feared/get up when he's knocked down and isnt able to recast his shield. Hardened ward only shields for about 10k without any mitigation so it shouldnt take you more than 2 hits to break the shield.

Off course you can do this against noobs. Good sors dont block and use damage shields, when you use CC he breaks and he has 8 seconds immunity. During this immunity the stamina is regenerated 4*800. The good sors never stay in mele range and you cannot dps effectively. The good sors is always mobile. If you root the sors he will bolt escape with the roots. If you charge the sors he will bollt escape 2-3 times in a row. You will drain your stamina and he will kill you. The good sors casts halalling ward on low health and bolt escapes. He comes back with full health and full shields.

i´m one of the few magica sorcs beeing a werewolf out there and i´m sitting at 516 stam reg would kill a kitten to get 800...

Bashev

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Petrify, Streak, Luminous Shards, Feer and Agony all work through block. You will always get CCed.

So will a Sorc, so will a NB, what's your point? Referring to the damage from each of those, it's all magicka based, LA shield available to any class would help mitigate some of that.

Bashev wrote: »

Magicka pool is everything for the Sors class. More magicka means more shields, you do not take damage. More magicka means great dps. You hit very hard (light attack, heavy attakc, skills, ulitmates). More magicka means oh *** I have to bolt escape 10 times in a row to save my life, fill recourses and come back to fight again. I dont speak for a total glass cannot build. Just a normal one with 20-25k HP and rest magicka. If you dont see this synergy you are blind.

Every battle is a resource battle. You make it sound as though Sorcs never die.

We already established more of the primary resource gives you higher Damage - same for stamina builds. Stamina synergy: more stamina based DPS, more break free, more roll dodge/interrupt, more sprint...

Every skill out there has it's counter or counterpart. Those are what you have to learn to use to your advantage.

At 25k Magicka, you have enough for 8 BE's and then you're out of your primary resource. If I'm out of range of you, you're out of range of me - no one's doing damage to anyone else. (And that's if I haven't used the shield 'synergy' you refer to, that's starting at full bar)

Also, while I'm recovering resources, so are you. It's not as one-sided as you would have it sound.

All that being said, if you're dying from Light and Heavy attacks (not talking Overload), sounds like you need to counter ranged with ranged. It takes 2BE's to be out of range of almost any other gap closer. The stun from it, which subsequently gives you immunity for the 5 second period, lasts a whole 1.5 seconds - it's hardly worth breaking out of.

You have access to the same food, the same potions, the same gear, and most of the same skills...

There are gaps in skills, there are gaps in timing. There are ways to do it. During those CC breaks and BE's, we're not moving. We're not self-healing. We're not damaging you. If you're not taking advantage of these moments, you will lose in the end. Also, if they are bolting away to save their life, they're also not killing you.

A fight where no one dies is nothing more than an armor repair bill. (Well, it would be, but Sorcs don't take damage, right?)

I really don't think your complaint is a Sorc issue. I think your complaint is a build issue. It sounds like you might consider revamping yours to use your class to be able to deal with the other three.

I am not going to argue anymore with you. You are talking for some 1vs1 situation which are irrelevant for me because in the open pvp it almost never happens. What I want to explain is while 2-3 fight agains other 2-3 players, sors has great advantage. You can run away and come back with full recourses but we are still fighting each other and we have almost no recourses. Then Sors with shields and nice dps can make easy kills. Yes If we are organized we can kill the sors if we all attach him, but most of the time if you are solo you just meet some random friendlies.

Ezareth

Tankqull wrote: »

i´m one of the few magica sorcs beeing a werewolf out there and i´m sitting at 516 stam reg would kill a kitten to get 800...

I've recently joined Team Jacob as well. We're not as rare as you may think ( ;

Ezareth

Bashev wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Petrify, Streak, Luminous Shards, Feer and Agony all work through block. You will always get CCed.

So will a Sorc, so will a NB, what's your point? Referring to the damage from each of those, it's all magicka based, LA shield available to any class would help mitigate some of that.

Bashev wrote: »

Magicka pool is everything for the Sors class. More magicka means more shields, you do not take damage. More magicka means great dps. You hit very hard (light attack, heavy attakc, skills, ulitmates). More magicka means oh *** I have to bolt escape 10 times in a row to save my life, fill recourses and come back to fight again. I dont speak for a total glass cannot build. Just a normal one with 20-25k HP and rest magicka. If you dont see this synergy you are blind.

Every battle is a resource battle. You make it sound as though Sorcs never die.

We already established more of the primary resource gives you higher Damage - same for stamina builds. Stamina synergy: more stamina based DPS, more break free, more roll dodge/interrupt, more sprint...

Every skill out there has it's counter or counterpart. Those are what you have to learn to use to your advantage.

At 25k Magicka, you have enough for 8 BE's and then you're out of your primary resource. If I'm out of range of you, you're out of range of me - no one's doing damage to anyone else. (And that's if I haven't used the shield 'synergy' you refer to, that's starting at full bar)

Also, while I'm recovering resources, so are you. It's not as one-sided as you would have it sound.

All that being said, if you're dying from Light and Heavy attacks (not talking Overload), sounds like you need to counter ranged with ranged. It takes 2BE's to be out of range of almost any other gap closer. The stun from it, which subsequently gives you immunity for the 5 second period, lasts a whole 1.5 seconds - it's hardly worth breaking out of.

You have access to the same food, the same potions, the same gear, and most of the same skills...

There are gaps in skills, there are gaps in timing. There are ways to do it. During those CC breaks and BE's, we're not moving. We're not self-healing. We're not damaging you. If you're not taking advantage of these moments, you will lose in the end. Also, if they are bolting away to save their life, they're also not killing you.

A fight where no one dies is nothing more than an armor repair bill. (Well, it would be, but Sorcs don't take damage, right?)

I really don't think your complaint is a Sorc issue. I think your complaint is a build issue. It sounds like you might consider revamping yours to use your class to be able to deal with the other three.

I am not going to argue anymore with you. You are talking for some 1vs1 situation which are irrelevant for me because in the open pvp it almost never happens. What I want to explain is while 2-3 fight agains other 2-3 players, sors has great advantage. You can run away and come back with full recourses but we are still fighting each other and we have almost no recourses. Then Sors with shields and nice dps can make easy kills. Yes If we are organized we can kill the sors if we all attach him, but most of the time if you are solo you just meet some random friendlies.

"Easy Kills" only happen with bad players. Against 2-3 *Good players* I'm extremely lucky to come out on top. Against 2-3 great players, I'm dead every single time. There isn't a single great player in the game of *any* class that I can kill easily. That should tell you something.

eventide03b14a_ESO

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Just apply Disease to reduce shield strength on top of healing done. Shields have a lack of penalty as oppose to dodge rolling, block canceling, and healing.

I'm all for a new Mystic/Shaman/Druid like class with an offensive purge >:D

It's called negate magic.

jrkhan wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Shields also are not getting any mitigation. If someone hits for 10k, that what the shield takes. Maybe thats what you intend so a tank in heavy armor would even have a better shield?

I think the OP thinks that wards, because that's what they are, give an unfair advantage to magicka builds.

I think that wards overall mitigation is probably okay. They are a way to proactively prevent expected incoming damage (vs reactively healing damage which has occurred).

The issue is that a shields effectiveness is determined by a single stat (and provides immunities).
It applies equally to bone/blazing shield (scales with hp) as well as brawler and shielded assault (or whatever the shield charge morph is called).

And the issue is that shields are disproportionately good at preventing some types of damage (mainly crit)

There is one champion passive, 1 trait, one skill (mage light morph), and one armor set bonus (construct) that reduce crit damage.

A damage shield should not negate all of those defensive abilities by providing total immunity.(And that's not counting all the offensive crit traits, passives and set bonuses which are made almost entirely irrelevant)


Ironically, one of the best ways to eat through a shield would be stacking your makicka/stam pool.

I just feel like there are many good builds that could exist (diversity) if shield mechanics were to change.

If you played a sorcerer you would probably feel differently. It takes skill to maintain shields and avoid being liquified in light armor while also trying to do damage. You don't want to create good builds and increase diversity, you want to dumb down the game and simplify it. What you guys are complaining about is that it's too difficult to kill sorcerers, and it's just not true. We are not difficult to kill if you know what you're doing and we are not gods. All it takes is one little mistake and we're totally boned.

Xsorus

Erock25 wrote: »

I'm wondering if all of these people saying "Everyone who PVPs know that Sorc is too strong" actually play Sorcs? My guess is no. They are on the outside looking in and do not objectively see what a Sorc can do.

Oh don't worry...I'm leveling up my Sorc....I'm sure when I make a video of me playing it...I'll find nothing overpowered about it at all.

Erock25

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

I'm wondering if all of these people saying "Everyone who PVPs know that Sorc is too strong" actually play Sorcs? My guess is no. They are on the outside looking in and do not objectively see what a Sorc can do.

Oh don't worry...I'm leveling up my Sorc....I'm sure when I make a video of me playing it...I'll find nothing overpowered about it at all.

And I'm sure your video will be impressive. Cherry picking clips can be very easy. While getting that footage you will realize what the real truth is though. You will get Invasion + Taloned by a DK while you have low stamina and be destroyed in no time at all. You will let your shields slip for just a fraction of a second and you will take a 15k lethal arrow to the face. There most certainly be times where you feel strong and can string out a group of herp-a-derps and fight them one by one, but you will die many times in the process of gathering enough clips for a video and you will know. Glad you are leveling one.

Ezareth

Yeah last night I was instagibbed twice in a row with full shields up without having a chance to respond by the same NB from a mile away. The third time he tried it I was finally able to react in time to dodge roll, pot and start bolt escaping directly towards where I saw him. Of course by the time I got there he was long gone. I tried radiant magelight, and spamming flare everywhere but I could never get close to him.

Yet these same players are coming on these forums and complaining that killing sorcs is too hard....

Bow damage is off the charts and they're complaining about Bolt Escape and Hardened ward?

k2blader

Ok, re. "good sorcs don't ___" or "good sorcs ___" therefore "I can't kill them" or some variation. Might want to seriously contemplate your own use of that adjective. What's wrong with good players being harder to defeat? :-P

jrkhan

@eventide03b14a_ESO I'm not sure how you can make the argument that increasing the number of viable gear choices dumbs things down.
It would make things more consistent.

There are many interesting options for gearing to reduce a players hp to 0.

Not nearly as many for dealing with shields.
The current implementation has "dumbed things down"

There's a reason sets with +damage and +stat are so valuable. Everyone wants those two stats.

I don't have a problem with sorcerers. I've got two of them myself, a v14 and a lvl 45ish for bwb. I've played more as a sorc than any other class. I just find the current meta of stack two things to be boring.



And yes, this equally applies to the weapon + stam stacking that is needed to effectively burst people down.

Xsorus

Ezareth wrote: »

Yeah last night I was instagibbed twice in a row with full shields up without having a chance to respond by the same NB from a mile away. The third time he tried it I was finally able to react in time to dodge roll, pot and start bolt escaping directly towards where I saw him. Of course by the time I got there he was long gone. I tried radiant magelight, and spamming flare everywhere but I could never get close to him.

Yet these same players are coming on these forums and complaining that killing sorcs is too hard....

Bow damage is off the charts and they're complaining about Bolt Escape and Hardened ward?

Why not post a video of it?

Also the only thing you need to stop getting instant shotted by a bow is Radiant Magelight. I run it with my Bow setup sometimes (For another reason) and you'd be amazed at how much damage you just flat out ignore with it.

Xsorus

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

I'm wondering if all of these people saying "Everyone who PVPs know that Sorc is too strong" actually play Sorcs? My guess is no. They are on the outside looking in and do not objectively see what a Sorc can do.

Oh don't worry...I'm leveling up my Sorc....I'm sure when I make a video of me playing it...I'll find nothing overpowered about it at all.

And I'm sure your video will be impressive. Cherry picking clips can be very easy. While getting that footage you will realize what the real truth is though. You will get Invasion + Taloned by a DK while you have low stamina and be destroyed in no time at all. You will let your shields slip for just a fraction of a second and you will take a 15k lethal arrow to the face. There most certainly be times where you feel strong and can string out a group of herp-a-derps and fight them one by one, but you will die many times in the process of gathering enough clips for a video and you will know. Glad you are leveling one.

I love that if i post any video of me killing lots of people..It'll be cherry picking clips ..

Ezareth

jrkhan wrote: »

@eventide03b14a_ESO I'm not sure how you can make the argument that increasing the number of viable gear choices dumbs things down.
It would make things more consistent.

There are many interesting options for gearing to reduce a players hp to 0.

Not nearly as many for dealing with shields.
The current implementation has "dumbed things down"

There's a reason sets with +damage and +stat are so valuable. Everyone wants those two stats.

I don't have a problem with sorcerers. I've got a v14 and a lvl 45ish for bwb. I just find the current meta of stack two things to be boring.

I don't think you'll find the best sorcs stacking nothing but spell power and magicka. Most of the ones I know are favoring many other stats like Cost reduction and Magicka Regen.

Of course it doesn't really make sense for a Sorc to dump a bunch of stats and points into increasing his stamina and health pools although many sorcs are at least creating some health buffer. The reason for this is because Health was nerfed, not that shields are so much stronger.

If anything Shields are *far* weaker in 1.6 than they were in 1.5 due to the 15% nerf.

eventide03b14a_ESO

jrkhan wrote: »

@eventide03b14a_ESO I'm not sure how you can make the argument that increasing the number of viable gear choices dumbs things down.
It would make things more consistent.

There are many interesting options for gearing to reduce a players hp to 0.

Not nearly as many for dealing with shields.
The current implementation has "dumbed things down"

There's a reason sets with +damage and +stat are so valuable. Everyone wants those two stats.

I don't have a problem with sorcerers. I've got two of them myself, a v14 and a lvl 45ish for bwb. I've played more as a sorc than any other class. I just find the current meta of stack two things to be boring.



And yes, this equally applies to the weapon + stam stacking that is needed to effectively burst people down.

I'm only talking about the proposed changes to the wards. The wards are fine the way they are and they don't need to be changed just because people can't figure out how to get through them.

Erock25

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

I'm wondering if all of these people saying "Everyone who PVPs know that Sorc is too strong" actually play Sorcs? My guess is no. They are on the outside looking in and do not objectively see what a Sorc can do.

Oh don't worry...I'm leveling up my Sorc....I'm sure when I make a video of me playing it...I'll find nothing overpowered about it at all.

And I'm sure your video will be impressive. Cherry picking clips can be very easy. While getting that footage you will realize what the real truth is though. You will get Invasion + Taloned by a DK while you have low stamina and be destroyed in no time at all. You will let your shields slip for just a fraction of a second and you will take a 15k lethal arrow to the face. There most certainly be times where you feel strong and can string out a group of herp-a-derps and fight them one by one, but you will die many times in the process of gathering enough clips for a video and you will know. Glad you are leveling one.

I love that if i post any video of me killing lots of people..It'll be cherry picking clips ..

What has you upset about that terminology? Isn't that what PVP videos are???? Picking the good clips. You obviously have an agenda so I don't expect you to put together a video compilation of you dying. I love how you're indignant over the fact that I would even suggest you would cherry pick 'Sorc OP' clips like it was some kind of secret. As I said, I'm fine with the cherry picked clip reel because if you get enough to really put together a nice video, you will know the reality of the downsides of a Sorc, even if it may (or may not) show up in your video.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

I'm wondering if all of these people saying "Everyone who PVPs know that Sorc is too strong" actually play Sorcs? My guess is no. They are on the outside looking in and do not objectively see what a Sorc can do.

Oh don't worry...I'm leveling up my Sorc....I'm sure when I make a video of me playing it...I'll find nothing overpowered about it at all.

And I'm sure your video will be impressive. Cherry picking clips can be very easy. While getting that footage you will realize what the real truth is though. You will get Invasion + Taloned by a DK while you have low stamina and be destroyed in no time at all. You will let your shields slip for just a fraction of a second and you will take a 15k lethal arrow to the face. There most certainly be times where you feel strong and can string out a group of herp-a-derps and fight them one by one, but you will die many times in the process of gathering enough clips for a video and you will know. Glad you are leveling one.

I love that if i post any video of me killing lots of people..It'll be cherry picking clips ..

What has you upset about that terminology? Isn't that what PVP videos are???? Picking the good clips. You obviously have an agenda so I don't expect you to put together a video compilation of you dying. I love how you're indignant over the fact that I would even suggest you would cherry pick 'Sorc OP' clips like it was some kind of secret.

QFT. Exactly. They are going to show whatever supports their opinion.

Xsorus

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

I'm wondering if all of these people saying "Everyone who PVPs know that Sorc is too strong" actually play Sorcs? My guess is no. They are on the outside looking in and do not objectively see what a Sorc can do.

Oh don't worry...I'm leveling up my Sorc....I'm sure when I make a video of me playing it...I'll find nothing overpowered about it at all.

And I'm sure your video will be impressive. Cherry picking clips can be very easy. While getting that footage you will realize what the real truth is though. You will get Invasion + Taloned by a DK while you have low stamina and be destroyed in no time at all. You will let your shields slip for just a fraction of a second and you will take a 15k lethal arrow to the face. There most certainly be times where you feel strong and can string out a group of herp-a-derps and fight them one by one, but you will die many times in the process of gathering enough clips for a video and you will know. Glad you are leveling one.

I love that if i post any video of me killing lots of people..It'll be cherry picking clips ..

What has you upset about that terminology? Isn't that what PVP videos are???? Picking the good clips. You obviously have an agenda so I don't expect you to put together a video compilation of you dying. I love how you're indignant over the fact that I would even suggest you would cherry pick 'Sorc OP' clips like it was some kind of secret.

Yes, keep telling yourself that lol

Erock25

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

I'm wondering if all of these people saying "Everyone who PVPs know that Sorc is too strong" actually play Sorcs? My guess is no. They are on the outside looking in and do not objectively see what a Sorc can do.

Oh don't worry...I'm leveling up my Sorc....I'm sure when I make a video of me playing it...I'll find nothing overpowered about it at all.

And I'm sure your video will be impressive. Cherry picking clips can be very easy. While getting that footage you will realize what the real truth is though. You will get Invasion + Taloned by a DK while you have low stamina and be destroyed in no time at all. You will let your shields slip for just a fraction of a second and you will take a 15k lethal arrow to the face. There most certainly be times where you feel strong and can string out a group of herp-a-derps and fight them one by one, but you will die many times in the process of gathering enough clips for a video and you will know. Glad you are leveling one.

I love that if i post any video of me killing lots of people..It'll be cherry picking clips ..

What has you upset about that terminology? Isn't that what PVP videos are???? Picking the good clips. You obviously have an agenda so I don't expect you to put together a video compilation of you dying. I love how you're indignant over the fact that I would even suggest you would cherry pick 'Sorc OP' clips like it was some kind of secret.

Yes, keep telling yourself that lol

So keep telling myself that people who put together PVP videos like to show themselves killing other people? Uuhhh okay. I don't really have to remind myself of that because it is a fact, but okay.

Xsorus

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

I'm wondering if all of these people saying "Everyone who PVPs know that Sorc is too strong" actually play Sorcs? My guess is no. They are on the outside looking in and do not objectively see what a Sorc can do.

Oh don't worry...I'm leveling up my Sorc....I'm sure when I make a video of me playing it...I'll find nothing overpowered about it at all.

And I'm sure your video will be impressive. Cherry picking clips can be very easy. While getting that footage you will realize what the real truth is though. You will get Invasion + Taloned by a DK while you have low stamina and be destroyed in no time at all. You will let your shields slip for just a fraction of a second and you will take a 15k lethal arrow to the face. There most certainly be times where you feel strong and can string out a group of herp-a-derps and fight them one by one, but you will die many times in the process of gathering enough clips for a video and you will know. Glad you are leveling one.

I love that if i post any video of me killing lots of people..It'll be cherry picking clips ..

What has you upset about that terminology? Isn't that what PVP videos are???? Picking the good clips. You obviously have an agenda so I don't expect you to put together a video compilation of you dying. I love how you're indignant over the fact that I would even suggest you would cherry pick 'Sorc OP' clips like it was some kind of secret.

Yes, keep telling yourself that lol

So keep telling myself that people who put together PVP videos like to show themselves killing other people? Uuhhh okay. I don't really have to remind myself of that because it is a fact, but okay.

Well if you ignore the fact that I have videos of me dying, and that pretty much my videos are most of the 1v1's i run across..if the 1v1 didn't make it..its because the player was really bad and i felt it would be mean to post it. Naturally i didn't include me getting zerged in every video..because that happens all the time on my DK...but if you think i posted 1v1's of only me winning you'd be incorrect with my previous videos.

So i look forward to posting my Sorc Videos..i'm sure it'll be me dying all the time because Sorcs ya know..are so squishy.

Merlin13KAGL

Ezareth wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Petrify, Streak, Luminous Shards, Feer and Agony all work through block. You will always get CCed.

So will a Sorc, so will a NB, what's your point? Referring to the damage from each of those, it's all magicka based, LA shield available to any class would help mitigate some of that.

Bashev wrote: »

Magicka pool is everything for the Sors class. More magicka means more shields, you do not take damage. More magicka means great dps. You hit very hard (light attack, heavy attakc, skills, ulitmates). More magicka means oh *** I have to bolt escape 10 times in a row to save my life, fill recourses and come back to fight again. I dont speak for a total glass cannot build. Just a normal one with 20-25k HP and rest magicka. If you dont see this synergy you are blind.

Every battle is a resource battle. You make it sound as though Sorcs never die.

We already established more of the primary resource gives you higher Damage - same for stamina builds. Stamina synergy: more stamina based DPS, more break free, more roll dodge/interrupt, more sprint...

Every skill out there has it's counter or counterpart. Those are what you have to learn to use to your advantage.

At 25k Magicka, you have enough for 8 BE's and then you're out of your primary resource. If I'm out of range of you, you're out of range of me - no one's doing damage to anyone else. (And that's if I haven't used the shield 'synergy' you refer to, that's starting at full bar)

Also, while I'm recovering resources, so are you. It's not as one-sided as you would have it sound.

All that being said, if you're dying from Light and Heavy attacks (not talking Overload), sounds like you need to counter ranged with ranged. It takes 2BE's to be out of range of almost any other gap closer. The stun from it, which subsequently gives you immunity for the 5 second period, lasts a whole 1.5 seconds - it's hardly worth breaking out of.

You have access to the same food, the same potions, the same gear, and most of the same skills...

There are gaps in skills, there are gaps in timing. There are ways to do it. During those CC breaks and BE's, we're not moving. We're not self-healing. We're not damaging you. If you're not taking advantage of these moments, you will lose in the end. Also, if they are bolting away to save their life, they're also not killing you.

A fight where no one dies is nothing more than an armor repair bill. (Well, it would be, but Sorcs don't take damage, right?)

I really don't think your complaint is a Sorc issue. I think your complaint is a build issue. It sounds like you might consider revamping yours to use your class to be able to deal with the other three.

I am not going to argue anymore with you. You are talking for some 1vs1 situation which are irrelevant for me because in the open pvp it almost never happens. What I want to explain is while 2-3 fight agains other 2-3 players, sors has great advantage. You can run away and come back with full recourses but we are still fighting each other and we have almost no recourses. Then Sors with shields and nice dps can make easy kills. Yes If we are organized we can kill the sors if we all attach him, but most of the time if you are solo you just meet some random friendlies.

"Easy Kills" only happen with bad players. Against 2-3 *Good players* I'm extremely lucky to come out on top. Against 2-3 great players, I'm dead every single time. There isn't a single great player in the game of *any* class that I can kill easily. That should tell you something.

@Ezareth , whether 1v1 or 10x10, it's evenly matched, number wise...

It's gone from a Shield issue, to a damage issue, to an escape issue, to a group play issue.

One last time, @Bashev , if it's 3v3, in your example, and I step out for a minute, that leaves three of your guys beating on two of my guys. Your complaint is that 3x the resources will still have issue against 2x the resources while one returns. (When I return, it should now be 3v2, and if you could get me to have to leave once, it should be even easier the 2nd time.)

Your argument is that if you leave the battle, you're no longer in the battle, but if you don't, you still are.

Reconsider your statement and I think you'll see (two of) the issue(s):

Yes If we are organized we can kill the sors if we all attach him, but most of the time if you are solo you just meet some random friendlies.

You don't have to be in a group to be effective. You do have to have some kind of common goal. If you have that much issue with 2 melee + 1 sorc in 3v3, I think you might consider focusing the sorc...

Worst case scenario is you lose one, they lose one...then it's two of your guys against 2 melee of theirs.

You're making this harder than it needs to be.

technohic

Damage shields, including the sorc one; depreciate in value the larger battle you are in. This is why I do not empathize with gankers on the shields.

I've done some ganking before, and it is fun; but its more being a pest and not really mattering that much in the larger scale. In a larger battle, the AOE flying around alone from multiple attackers makes shield nearly worthless as they pop about as soon as they are up. It is however; the only option light armor wearers really have. Its probably cast, pop, get a heal; cast, pop, get a heal quicker than you can even say it.

Erock25

Maybe I was just having a bad night last night (didn't help that I run solo on the fringes of a PUG zerg usually and kept facing off against organized guilds) but I was getting absolutely rocked even with my triple shield stacking and 28k magicka. Even when I had stamina to break free, there is a delay there where I end up spamming the button about 6 times before I'm finally free, and by that time I'm dead or too low on HP to recover.

Bashev

Erock25 wrote: »

Maybe I was just having a bad night last night (didn't help that I run solo on the fringes of a PUG zerg usually and kept facing off against organized guilds) but I was getting absolutely rocked even with my triple shield stacking and 28k magicka. Even when I had stamina to break free, there is a delay there where I end up spamming the button about 6 times before I'm finally free, and by that time I'm dead or too low on HP to recover.

Nobody can beat the lag.

Derra

technohic wrote: »

Damage shields, including the sorc one; depreciate in value the larger battle you are in. This is why I do not empathize with gankers on the shields.

I've done some ganking before, and it is fun; but its more being a pest and not really mattering that much in the larger scale. In a larger battle, the AOE flying around alone from multiple attackers makes shield nearly worthless as they pop about as soon as they are up. It is however; the only option light armor wearers really have. Its probably cast, pop, get a heal; cast, pop, get a heal quicker than you can even say it.

One of the few level headed responses on shields .

I am 100% sure people do not realise what they are asking for when they want shields to behave like extended HP. Yes its going to weaken light armor users (most likely they won´t be vaible anymore at all bc they lack any other defense mechanism in beforementioned larger fights). The problem comes when a high magica build is combined with high defense. You don´t want a blazing shield templar or a sorc in heavy armor take 300 dmg hits on a 10k shield. These kind of builds would literally be immortal (and pack some punch because hey - they don´t need hp they´ve got mitigated dmg shields that they can recast till infinity - lets get those juicy heavy armor dmg sets).

jrkhan

I should probably edit the OP because I don't think the point was clear.
I'm not saying the effectiveness of wards needs to be toned down.
I'm not saying sorcs are over powered.

The following is a fact: In scenarios where damage shields absorb a significant % of all damage taken, there are two game mechanics that are circumvented. (Crit and pen)

Hopefully we can agree on the preceding statement.

My argument is as follows, feel free to disagree with any of the following:

The previous scenario occurs frequently (perhaps 50% of the time) in encounters between players in Cyrodil.
When choosing offensive statistics for their builds, because crit and pen are only situationally useful, most players will instead prefer additional +power or sustain.
When choosing defensive statistics for their builds, players who can create large damage shields will not be as inclined to stack crit resistance, or armor/spell resist.
There are many passives and gear that provide these less useful stats.
A change to the mechanics of wards (as described in the op) that resulted in the same overall protection, but does not negate critical strikes and mitigation should be possible.
This change would result in a greater diversity in gear and spec choices for the previously mentioned players.

If you would please be so kind as to disagree with a specific one of the previous points, with your rational, I think that would help frame the discussion in a way that doesn't devolve to "wards are fine"

Ezareth

jrkhan wrote: »

I should probably edit the OP because I don't think the point was clear.
I'm not saying the effectiveness of wards needs to be toned down.
I'm not saying sorcs are over powered.

The following is a fact: In scenarios where damage shields absorb a significant % of all damage taken, there are two game mechanics that are circumvented. (Crit and pen)

Hopefully we can agree on the preceding statement.

My argument is a follows, feel free to disagree with any of the following:

The previous scenario occurs frequently (perhaps 50% of the time) in encounters between players in Cyrodil.
When choosing offensive statistics for their builds, because crit and pen are only situationally useful, most players will instead prefer additional +power or sustain.
When choosing defensive statistics for their builds, players who can create large damage shields will not be as inclined to stack crit resistance, or armor/spell resist.
There are many passives and gear that provide these less useful stats.
A change to the mechanics of wards (as described in the op) that resulted in the same overall protection, but does not negate critical strikes and mitigation should be possible.
This change would result in a greater diversity in gear and spec choices for the previously mentioned players.

If you would please be so kind as to disagree with a specific one of the previous points, with your rational, I think that would help frame the discussion in a way that doesn't devolve to "wards are fine"

I don't agree with this suggestion for many reasons, chiefly because it would further shift the meta from Light armor to heavy armor + stamina builds. If you could have insane passive armor defenses that were then applied to your shields, even if they could be crit it would make tanks that much stronger. Light armor wearers on the other hand would lose out even more as the ability to crit damage shields would be far worse than gaining the meager defenses we have. This wouldn't result in greater diversity and gear, it would force every player to find a way to maximize shields and defenses.

In the big picture, I think damage shields as they currently exist are perfectly balance and offer a defensive alternative to a light armor wearer. Tanks and people with high passive mitigation should not become that much more powerful.

jrkhan

Okay, so I think we agree for the most part then. (And I gather that from @Derra 's response also)

I would prose the following then:
What if shields were given a static armor/spell resist value. (Not derived from users values)
Shields were crittable, but negated 50% (pulled out of a hat) bonus damage from crits while active?

At the very least, this would help diversify offensive builds, but prevent the magika heavy armor super tank scenario.