Racial Disparity with Full List:

s7732425ub17_ESO · February 2015

The first thing I'm doing with my free crowns once 1.6 hits is to purchase an Imperial upgrade and make a Nightblade.

Detector · February 2015

Holycannoli wrote: »

Do NOT touch my imperial passives. Orc, redguard and argonian need the biggest changes but leave imperial alone.

+1

madangrypally · February 2015

Below are some changes I think will work nice.

Argonian:

Increase swim speed by 50%. Poison/Disease Resist: 3,000
Gain 6% of max health and stamina
Increase Healing received: 6% and increase max health by 3%

Wood-Elf:

In-combat Stamina Regeneration: 21%
Poison/Disease Resist: 3,000. Max Stamina: 6%
Decrease Stealth Radius: 3 meters; Increase physical damage done while stealthed by 10% and physical damage by 3% out of stealth.

Nord:

In-combat Health recovery: 30%
Increase Cold Resistance: 3,000 Max health 6%
Reduce incoming damage by 6%

Orc

Max Health and Stamina: 6%
In-combat health recovery: 30%
Reduce sprint cost: 12 and increase sprint speed: 10%. Increase charge damage by 10% and physical damage by 3%.

Dark Elf

Max Stamina and Magicka: 6%
Resist Flame: 3000 Increased Max Health by 3%
Increase Damage with Fire effects by 6% (pls note this was changed to be similar to High-Elf passive)

Redguard:

In-combat Stamina Regen: 21%
Max Stamina: 10%
10% chance on melee attack to restore 4% Max Stamina (pls note no cd and is similar to the Imperial one but with stamina)

Khajit:

Increase Max Health and Max Stamina by 6%
Decrease Stealth Radius: 3m Increase damage done while steathed by 10% and phsyical damage by 3% out of stealth
Increase weapon critical 6%

The above is not perfect but it slightly increased increased the poor races without nerfing the good races.

Holycannoli · February 2015

MorHawk wrote: »

MrGhosty wrote: »

For those who say the imp racials grant god mode, do you actually play one? If so do tell how these racials are god mode with build/kit/etc because I've had one since launch and while he has a bit of extra health I would hardly call him god mode. I can't imagine 1.6 will change these racials so much that to be the case but I would truly love to understand why they are considered so.

I have, but I really don't see why it needs to be tested, as the level of relative materiality is largely irrelevant. 12% to max health and 10% to stamina. Other races get at most 10% to one, and Orcs/Dunmer get 6% to health/stam, so 12% overall. So essentially double the bonuses of any other race. In a game that no longer has softcaps, meaning these percentages hold full force at endgame. It is unambiguously unbalanced.

That's pretty much all they get though. Shield bonus doesn't count and Red Diamond is 10% chance for a very low heal.

Nareith · February 2015

I'm new to the game, and leveling a 2h Argonian Templar. There aren't any other races I find mildly interesting. I wouldn't want to play a human in an mmorpg, cause.. Boring in my opinion.

On the other hand, 12% health and 10% stam without soft-caps makes imperials increasingly better. And the HP back on hit proc, wowzers. They should remove the racial passives from races, or allow players to mix-mash - increasing build diversity, play-style diversity.

Kinda makes me want to delete, and start over as an Imperial if I'm just eternally gimped for playing a race I like.

MSG1000 · February 2015

You failed to list that Imperials only have a 10% chance to get the 6% health on melee hit. We are only getting 0.6% health per swing statistically. They isn't a lot. I've experimented with it on PTS and it just helps a little bit against PVE enemies.

From what I've read, PVP DPS will down you so much quicker that will only help marginally.

If Caltrops are proccing it for ridiculous numbers then Caltrops needs to be changed to not count as a melee hit.

Jitterbug · February 2015

Verdwhisper wrote: »

Imperial? Really? Take away health buff, i dont care, buff red diamond, it is ridiculously useless! 10% proc. U cannot count on that.

except for 10% of the time ofc

Nareith · February 2015

I agree, the Hp proc is significantly less concerning than the outright stats. Thanks for the clarification, MSG.

MSG1000 · February 2015

Nareith wrote: »

I agree, the Hp proc is significantly less concerning than the outright stats. Thanks for the clarification, MSG.

You are welcome. I also just read that the Red Diamond skill is bugged with AVA skill Caltrops.

Apparently, people walking on the stuff counts as melee hits which in turn gives stupid amounts of health back.

That is a bug, fix it and problems go away with the passive remaining the same.

Darlgon · February 2015

Jitterbug wrote: »

Verdwhisper wrote: »

Imperial? Really? Take away health buff, i dont care, buff red diamond, it is ridiculously useless! 10% proc. U cannot count on that.

except for 10% of the time ofc

Umm.. no.

madangrypally wrote: »

These are currently the Racial Passives on the PTS.

Racials:

Imperial:
Max health: 12%

Max Stamina: 10%

6% max health restored on melee attack (dont see a cd listed)

That means that EVERY time you take damage you have a 10 percent chance.

1.) First hit 10 percent chance
2.) Second hit 10 percent chance
3.) Third hit 10 percent chance.

You could go all day without it firing off. Or, it could fire off 10 times in 10 hits.

Feeling+lucky.png

Hang on.. is the 10% chance gone?

Lionxoft · February 2015

manny254 wrote: »

The health recovery passives are stupid. They need to be replaced or have another bonus added. Off the top of my head if they are bent on keeping the health regen add 6% max health to the passive. Just the first suggestion I thought of I am sure someone may have a better one.

So you want 6% flat damage reduction and a total of 9% max health?

Lionxoft · February 2015

Digiman wrote: »

madangrypally wrote: »

These are currently the Racial Passives on the PTS.

Racials:
Breton:
Max Magicka: 10%

Spell Resistance: 3,000

Reduced Magicka Cost: 3%

Argonian:
Increase swim speed by 50%. Gain 6% of max health, stamina and magicka on potion use.

Poison/Disease Resist: 1440. Max Health 3%

Increase Healing received: 6%

Wood-Elf:
In-combat Stamina Regeneration: 21%

Poison/Disease Resist: 1440. Max Stamina: 3%

Decrease Stealth Radius: 3 meters, Increase damage done while stealthed by 10%

Nord:
In-combat Health recovery: 30%

Increase Cold Resistance: 1984 Max health 3%

Reduce incoming damage by 6%

High-Elf:
In-combat Magicka Recovery: 9%

Max Magicka: 10%

Increase damage with Frost, Fire, and Shock

Orc
Max Health and Stamina: 6%

In-combat health recovery: 30%

Reduce sprint cost: 12 and increase sprint speed: 10%. Increase charge damage by 6%

Dark Elf
Max Stamina and Magicka: 6%

Resust Flame: 2016 Increased Max Magicka 3%

Increase Spell Damage with Fire effects by 7%

Redguard:
In-combat Stamina Regen: 9%

Max Stamina: 10%

3% Max Stamina restored on melee attack. 3 sec cd

Khajit:
In-combat Health recovery: 30%

Decrease Stealth Radius: 3m Increase damage done while steathed by 10%

Increase weapon critical 6%

Imperial:
Max health: 12%

Max Stamina: 10%

6% max health restored on melee attack (dont see a cd listed)

If taking a look at the above passives some glaring problems become apparent. ZoS needs to give a good hard look at the above passives and balance them as much as possible.

Pretty sure imperial does have a CD, probably 30 seconds and only triggered when under a certain percentage.

But the fact is the disparity means nothing at all, these racials aren't going to let win a match by hitting a certain button others don't have, they are stats to diversify them and make them, they even require skill points to be put into activate them.

There's no cooldown on Red Diamond. You can test this via caltrops on a large mob(s). It's essentially an irregular HoT. The Imperial race does add up as the best race when it comes to raw stats. So much so that I've been wrongfully accused of exploiting on PTS because their stat bonuses are that good.

It's hands down the most well rounded race in the game and offers the biggest advantage to max your raw attributes.

jcasini222ub17_ESO · February 2015

I'd like to see the whole orc running/charge damage be revisted. If i remember correctly it was just a boost to sprint, then they added the bonus of charge. It just has always felt like a forced passive.

MSG1000 · February 2015

Lionxoft wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

madangrypally wrote: »

These are currently the Racial Passives on the PTS.

Racials:
Breton:
Max Magicka: 10%

Spell Resistance: 3,000

Reduced Magicka Cost: 3%

Argonian:
Increase swim speed by 50%. Gain 6% of max health, stamina and magicka on potion use.

Poison/Disease Resist: 1440. Max Health 3%

Increase Healing received: 6%

Wood-Elf:
In-combat Stamina Regeneration: 21%

Poison/Disease Resist: 1440. Max Stamina: 3%

Decrease Stealth Radius: 3 meters, Increase damage done while stealthed by 10%

Nord:
In-combat Health recovery: 30%

Increase Cold Resistance: 1984 Max health 3%

Reduce incoming damage by 6%

High-Elf:
In-combat Magicka Recovery: 9%

Max Magicka: 10%

Increase damage with Frost, Fire, and Shock

Orc
Max Health and Stamina: 6%

In-combat health recovery: 30%

Reduce sprint cost: 12 and increase sprint speed: 10%. Increase charge damage by 6%

Dark Elf
Max Stamina and Magicka: 6%

Resust Flame: 2016 Increased Max Magicka 3%

Increase Spell Damage with Fire effects by 7%

Redguard:
In-combat Stamina Regen: 9%

Max Stamina: 10%

3% Max Stamina restored on melee attack. 3 sec cd

Khajit:
In-combat Health recovery: 30%

Decrease Stealth Radius: 3m Increase damage done while steathed by 10%

Increase weapon critical 6%

Imperial:
Max health: 12%

Max Stamina: 10%

6% max health restored on melee attack (dont see a cd listed)

If taking a look at the above passives some glaring problems become apparent. ZoS needs to give a good hard look at the above passives and balance them as much as possible.

Pretty sure imperial does have a CD, probably 30 seconds and only triggered when under a certain percentage.

But the fact is the disparity means nothing at all, these racials aren't going to let win a match by hitting a certain button others don't have, they are stats to diversify them and make them, they even require skill points to be put into activate them.

There's no cooldown on Red Diamond. You can test this via caltrops on a large mob(s). It's essentially an irregular HoT. The Imperial race does add up as the best race when it comes to raw stats. So much so that I've been wrongfully accused of exploiting on PTS because their stat bonuses are that good.

It's hands down the most well rounded race in the game and offers the biggest advantage to max your raw attributes.

This makes it a bug, it's supposed to be a 10% on melee attack to gain 6% health back. Caltrops is a bug.

Lava_Croft · February 2015

I'd just love to see the Argonian passives brought a little bit more in line with the rest. I know we are special, but I'd rather not be it the kind of special that rides the short bus.

Imryll · February 2015

Sharee wrote: »

I'm waiting to see what other changes to racials there will be before judging, but so far there do seem to be imbalances - redguard stamina regen 9%, wood elf 21% - it does not make sense for two races to have the same specialization, but one of them being more than twice as good.

I don't think it's useful to pull one bonus out of a package of three and compare just those. Pretty sure that woodelves got more passive regen due to the weakness of their other racials.

Domander · February 2015

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Hmm, wonder why Dark Elves get more Flame resist then Nords gets Cold Resist?

It should be much much higher if scaled correctly.

It's completely worthless compared to live.

Nord cold resist should be the same.

Varicite · February 2015

Digiman wrote: »

Pretty sure imperial does have a CD, probably 30 seconds and only triggered when under a certain percentage.

There is no CD and there is no percentage that you need to be under.

This has been tested time and again since launch. It works exactly like Adrenaline Rush for Redguards, which also has no CD or stamina remaining threshold.

PlagueMonk · February 2015

Imryll wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

I'm waiting to see what other changes to racials there will be before judging, but so far there do seem to be imbalances - redguard stamina regen 9%, wood elf 21% - it does not make sense for two races to have the same specialization, but one of them being more than twice as good.

I don't think it's useful to pull one bonus out of a package of three and compare just those. Pretty sure that woodelves got more passive regen due to the weakness of their other racials.

If that's the case what do you weigh against the "great" Argonian racials? Would that be the new lame 6% to stats on pot drink? or how about 3% health? or maybe that awesome 6% when being healed. Come to think of it those ALL balance well against the pretty lame +50% swim speed (which you can't even use in PvP)

Ace_SiN · February 2015

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Here is what I think the Argonian passives should look like:

Guerrilla Warfare Expertise (3 ranks) – Increases movement speed while stealthed by (7/14/21)% and increases non magicka based attacks while stealthed by (3/6/9)%

Amphibian Physiology (3 ranks) – Increases swimming speed by 50% and health regen (7/14/21)%

Argonian Hardiness (3 ranks) – Increases maximum Health by (3/6/9)% and Increases Poison/Disease resistance by 1440. Disease resistance should apply directly to disease abilities, lessening their effect by a flat amount (including meatbag catapults)

This is completely in line with other races.

+1

Argonians get no love.. At least at launch I was able to reasonably argue that a NB Argonian had a nice passive.. I never expected us(with the weakest of racials) to be nerfed. I guess nobody at ZOS played an Argonian.

Sharee · February 2015

Imryll wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

I'm waiting to see what other changes to racials there will be before judging, but so far there do seem to be imbalances - redguard stamina regen 9%, wood elf 21% - it does not make sense for two races to have the same specialization, but one of them being more than twice as good.

I don't think it's useful to pull one bonus out of a package of three and compare just those. Pretty sure that woodelves got more passive regen due to the weakness of their other racials.

The other two racials are not weaker tho, at least not to an extent that would warrant the first to be more than twice as good. 10% damage bonus for sneak attacks is nothing to scoff at, and poison resist is helpful against snipe spam.

xylena · February 2015

while i get frost resist frost from a lore standpoint, the passive needs to carry more max health, like 6-8% or so, to bring nord in line with other races

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · February 2015

Don't worry we might get racial ultimates. Argonians 'Tail Flick' will be overpowered I'm sure.

Reremnu · February 2015

Sharee wrote: »

The other two racials are not weaker tho, at least not to an extent that would warrant the first to be more than twice as good. 10% damage bonus for sneak attacks is nothing to scoff at, and poison resist is helpful against snipe spam.

10% bonus dmg from sneak which works only once during a fight, wile with 10% increase to max stamina/magicka you get increased damage all the time.

Poison resist is indeed helpful BUT it is currently nerfed(it is weaker on PTS than on Live)

Sharee · February 2015

Reremnu wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

The other two racials are not weaker tho, at least not to an extent that would warrant the first to be more than twice as good. 10% damage bonus for sneak attacks is nothing to scoff at, and poison resist is helpful against snipe spam.

10% bonus dmg from sneak which works only once during a fight

10% increase to one of the strongest attacks in a game where high burst is often the only way to get a kill. I would not underestimate this. Once per fight is true, but if it can make the fight end before it even started, you don't need it more than once per fight.

Reremnu wrote: »

wile with 10% increase to max stamina/magicka you get increased damage all the time.

It's just a 7% difference, not 10% (wood elf gets 3% as racial). And yes, it is useful, but whether it is more useful than 10% increased burst from stealth greatly depends on actual build (ganker/nonganker). On the other hand, 21% stamina regen is always more useful than 9% stamina regen.

Reremnu · February 2015

Sharee wrote: »

10% increase to one of the strongest attacks in a game where high burst is often the only way to get a kill. I would not underestimate this. Once per fight is true, but if it can make the fight end before it even started, you don't need it more than once per fight.

Not to mention that sneak bonus damage once per fights has a very limited uses:
- VR dungeons? not so much
- Trials? not so much
- solo questing - yes
- PvP ganking - like above, working great but you can hardly see players being one shoted from sneak
- PvP group fight (fighting in a resource, keep etc)- quite often it's hard to get back into sneak mode (while it's not passives fault game mechanic limits sneak usefulness)

Sneak bonus damage is very situational, I'm not arguing that it is a bad passive. It works great in some situations, but looking at overall performance, increased max stats is better. Especally while melee magicka ganking NB's skills were nerfed by being changed into stmaina and only a few "spells" can get bonus from sneak damage.

We have an interesting set in game:
"Archer's Mind: Attacking from stealth increases Critical Damage by 15%. Critical Damage increased by 5% when not attacking from stealth"
Adding like 2%~3% bonus damage from critical strikes to Sneaky passive would make it overall more useful and universal, although it will be a very slight change.

Jar_Ek · February 2015

Argonian passives are dreadful, without exception.
The new potion passive is less effective and less versatile than the one it replaced and is not only weak - it is the only passive that costs money to use!
The resist is weaker than it used to be (does not appear to have been correctly scaled) and is only useful against a relatively small set of abilities (some PVE and a few bow and NB ones).
and the healing received is directly comparable, but worse, than the Nordic damage resistance.
Oh and swim speed is strictly fluff only as it doesn't help in PVP (slaughterfish).

The whole set needs to be reconsidered with an actual racial theme in mind, rather than a random selection of disparate and ineffective passives. If Argonian s are supposed to be a race that excels at survival in hostile environments then think of how they do that... it is not through drinking endless potions and having a pocket healer.

I suggest that if we have to keep something like these facials, then the 6% healing received should be changed to healing output (Argonians are not known as a tank race, but they have healers all over the place).
The potion passive changed to be something other than potion based unless potions get a serious revisit. Maybe something based on hist skin or a straight stamina bonus passive.
And the resist be buffed, and/ or the health component.
Naturally we should keep our fluff swim buff

Varicite · February 2015

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Argonian passives are dreadful, without exception.
The new potion passive is less effective and less versatile than the one it replaced and is not only weak - it is the only passive that costs money to use!
The resist is weaker than it used to be (does not appear to have been correctly scaled) and is only useful against a relatively small set of abilities (some PVE and a few bow and NB ones).
and the healing received is directly comparable, but worse, than the Nordic damage resistance.
Oh and swim speed is strictly fluff only as it doesn't help in PVP (slaughterfish).

The whole set needs to be reconsidered with an actual racial theme in mind, rather than a random selection of disparate and ineffective passives. If Argonian s are supposed to be a race that excels at survival in hostile environments then think of how they do that... it is not through drinking endless potions and having a pocket healer.

I suggest that if we have to keep something like these facials, then the 6% healing received should be changed to healing output (Argonians are not known as a tank race, but they have healers all over the place).
The potion passive changed to be something other than potion based unless potions get a serious revisit. Maybe something based on hist skin or a straight stamina bonus passive.
And the resist be buffed, and/ or the health component.
Naturally we should keep our fluff swim buff

Completely agreed. I started a thread not too long ago about this very thing.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150659/lets-talk-about-argonians-race-change-please/p1

ThatNeonZebraAgain · February 2015

Jar_Ek wrote: »

I suggest that if we have to keep something like these facials, then the 6% healing received should be changed to healing output (Argonians are not known as a tank race, but they have healers all over the place).
The potion passive changed to be something other than potion based unless potions get a serious revisit. Maybe something based on hist skin or a straight stamina bonus passive.
And the resist be buffed, and/ or the health component.
Naturally we should keep our fluff swim buff

I agree in spirit, but not practice. Lore-wise, Argonians are renowned front-line and shadow warriors, as well as healers. I also play an Argonian NB tank whose main strategy is stacking healing received (I have +41%). I would like to see that passive value increased of course, but I think it would be better if they made it +6% healing received AND healing dealt. That way, we would have increased self-healing, while also contributing to healer/front-line roles.

Gilcroix · February 2015

I have never understood why argonians were given the resto staff and quick to mend passive. As reptiles are known to "physically" regenerate body parts. Why would they delve into magical regeneration? They are the one race that would need it the least. I suppose it's fantasy and you can write it however you want but it still just seems wrong to me. The Nord racials (regen and rugged/scale skin) make more sense for argonians but I'm sure they didn't want to double up on things in the same faction.