Elite gear hit with the massive nerf hammer in 1.6 nobody does trials anymore: pics

Muizer

ok I've been hearing this, but can someone point me to info that rare dropped sets are getting nerfed harder than everything else?

I mean apart from jewelry I pretty much only use crafted gear and that too seems to have been nerfed pretty hard.

I just about got to the point where I could solo pretty much all mob groups in Craglorn on the live server without using any ultimate. I don't have to try that on the PTS. (Ok, my armor is a bit outdated on PTS, lots blue that's purple on live, but still).

Feidam

Armor was not taken away from anyone. Changed so there isn't as much crit per armor piece yes. Taken away no.

Alphashado

Joejudas wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Sharkano wrote: »

The guys who played the game the longest and the hardest, and paid every month, get hosed. The guys who subscribed for a month, then quit and are now coming back F2P and are level 50 love it. Tells you everything you need to know about where this company's head is at . . . .

I'm confused. Many of the same people suggesting that ZoS is hosing Vet players in favor of new players... are also saying that the CS sucks because it will create too large of a disparity between new players and old players. How can it be favoring new players and screwing new players all at the same time?

Because it favors new players by making it a new shiny and hurts them because they wont ever possibly be able to catch up to vet players...which they could have done with the vr system. its a broken system.

lmao! OK. So if it's screwing new players, then wouldn't that be favoring old players by default?

Your hatred has made you blind.

because taking away end game players armor and stats is helping us how ?

Ya know... I would happily explain it to a member of the community that was new to the discussion. But explaining it to you is like this bashing my head against this:

pppontus

The issue is:

Is the gear useful? Is it worth using over crafted sets?

No, it is not.

Crit is the same % as crafted sets, and the "unique bonuses" such as the added heavy attack damage of Infallible Aether were reduced to the point where having these sets is a bad deal.

Simply put, choosing a set that has +max magicka instead is better and that's sad.

All it really means is that the sets from the hardest content in the game are no longer worth wearing over crafted/other dropped sets. Numbers aside.

Alphashado

pppontus wrote: »

The issue is:

Is the gear useful? Is it worth using over crafted sets?

No, it is not.

Crit is the same % as crafted sets, and the "unique bonuses" such as the added heavy attack damage of Infallible Aether were reduced to the point where having these sets is a bad deal.

Simply put, choosing a set that has +max magicka instead is better and that's sad.

All it really means is that the sets from the hardest content in the game are no longer worth wearing over crafted/other dropped sets. Numbers aside.

ZoS has changed their tune on a few other *cough B2P* topics, so their past comments are certainly not gospel. But one of the ideals they had way back at launch was to make sure that raiding gear never got more powerful than crafted gear. So this is nothing new. I thought it was a neat idea to add set bonus's to trial/dungeon gear so it had a different flavor. Cool set bonus's and maybe a different look. That way there would still be some form of incentive to farm trials etc for the gear.

Not saying I agree or disagree, but that is the concept they have had from the beginning. You should be able to craft gear that will always be on par with raid gear. The idea was to prevent progression gates. But the entire VR system is one gigantic progression gate, so who knows.

silentgecko

i don't think that they nerfed the sets.

As said someone before: They Rebalanced Everything. And if you Combine the new calculated Sets with Champion Points and new Skills etc, then you could get better Stats than Pre 1.6.
Like Crit Chance %. You can use your Champion Points to increase CC.
As you can see in Screenshot:


These are my stats with NO Champion Points set yet. Remember: Each CP gives you a plus to the Mainattribute, Like setting a CP in the Magetree will increase your Max Magicka.

And if i set the CP into Critchance, i will get nearly the Same critchance then Pre 1.6. And i will have a much more Spelldmg and the Skills are now Properly scaled by Max Magicka / Spelldmg / Spellcrit.

So my opinion is: Just gear as you want, ignore Weapon dmg and take Items with Spelldmg (as a caster). If you have sets with 1% crit chance ignore them and pick other combinations with spelldmg or max magicka. Read the Skilldescriptions wisely and combine buffs you get. And then you can have much more fun then before

itsBishop

silentgecko wrote: »

i don't think that they nerfed the sets.

As said someone before: They Rebalanced Everything.

And if you Combine the new calculated Sets with Champion Points and new Skills etc, then you could get better Stats than Pre 1.6.
Like Crit Chance %. You can use your Champion Points to increase CC.

The doctors didn't amputate his arm after he got in the car accident, they just reorganized his body plan.

The argument is more nuanced than simply saying "it's not a nerf, it's a rebalance!"

Sure, you can get your crit to values that are near what we have on live, but the point of this entire thread (and what is upsetting many of us end game raiders) is that to do so you must actively step away from the armor sets acquired from completing the most difficult content. This is the issue at hand; not whether the changes can be made up for by turning to other options.

Gyudan

itsBishop wrote: »

silentgecko wrote: »

i don't think that they nerfed the sets.

As said someone before: They Rebalanced Everything.

And if you Combine the new calculated Sets with Champion Points and new Skills etc, then you could get better Stats than Pre 1.6.
Like Crit Chance %. You can use your Champion Points to increase CC.

The doctors didn't amputate his arm after he got in the car accident, they just reorganized his body plan.

The argument is more nuanced than simply saying "it's not a nerf, it's a rebalance!"

Sure, you can get your crit to values that are near what we have on live, but the point of this entire thread (and what is upsetting many of us end game raiders) is that to do so you must actively step away from the armor sets acquired from completing the most difficult content. This is the issue at hand; not whether the changes can be made up for by turning to other options.

+1

I have full sets of light/medium armor from Sanctum Ophidia and I won't use those in any build with the current numbers. They are just not good enough anymore, just like all the sets with spell/weapon critical bonuses.

I understand the need to make crit chance rely more on weapon and champion points than armor, but these sets have become completely worthless overnight and it would be nice to see them with different bonuses now.
I think that @ZOS should remove all the critical bonuses from sets and replace them with something else. The 1.5% bonus is just ridiculous at the moment.

HeroOfNone

Make sure to bug report some issues. One thing I noticed was the pvp rings and destro staff had "0%" crit, which makes me feel a lot of tweaking is going on. Feedback and bug reports should help address this. A base "10x" wasn't applied to everything, so be mindful that some things were reduced because things like crit generating ultimate and inpenatrable preventing critical no longer appliy, so a reduction to base critical shouldn't affect your build as much If you were an averge player.

itsBishop

Gyudan wrote: »

I think that @ZOS should remove all the critical bonuses from sets and replace them with something else. The 1.5% bonus is just ridiculous at the moment.

I, too, would be fine with this. Give us NEW options instead of hamstringing our old ones and hoping that we all just shrug and move on to greener pastures.

Islyn

Joejudas wrote: »

I'm willing to turn my gold Trials gear in gold mats. WTS gold crafting mats pst.

I was thinking along same lines.

Joy_Division

silentgecko wrote: »

i don't think that they nerfed the sets.

As said someone before: They Rebalanced Everything. And if you Combine the new calculated Sets with Champion Points and new Skills etc, then you could get better Stats than Pre 1.6.
Like Crit Chance %. You can use your Champion Points to increase CC.
As you can see in Screenshot:


These are my stats with NO Champion Points set yet. Remember: Each CP gives you a plus to the Mainattribute, Like setting a CP in the Magetree will increase your Max Magicka.

And if i set the CP into Critchance, i will get nearly the Same critchance then Pre 1.6. And i will have a much more Spelldmg and the Skills are now Properly scaled by Max Magicka / Spelldmg / Spellcrit.

So my opinion is: Just gear as you want, ignore Weapon dmg and take Items with Spelldmg (as a caster). If you have sets with 1% crit chance ignore them and pick other combinations with spelldmg or max magicka. Read the Skilldescriptions wisely and combine buffs you get. And then you can have much more fun then before

Why do people keep saying this? The OP's point was not that he could not attain the amount of crit or dps or power in 1.6 than he could from 1.5. It was the the specific high end gear that dropped from the game's most difficult content was noticeably reduced in its effectiveness and the factor it had in character development and progression.

Islyn

Alphawhatever you are being obtuse.
New players go Yay! Shiny!
Casual players go Yay! Doesn't affect me so I like it!

Long term vet ranked players go *Smhwtf*

I can go borrow my daughter's crayons and make you a stick figure diagram of the issues at hand if you are having a hard time understanding the dozens of different explanations many with visual aids across this forum.

TL;DR: A person can take issue with both apples and oranges if changes made for them impact the growth and harvesting of bananas.

Alphashado

Joy_Division wrote: »

silentgecko wrote: »

i don't think that they nerfed the sets.

As said someone before: They Rebalanced Everything. And if you Combine the new calculated Sets with Champion Points and new Skills etc, then you could get better Stats than Pre 1.6.
Like Crit Chance %. You can use your Champion Points to increase CC.
As you can see in Screenshot:


These are my stats with NO Champion Points set yet. Remember: Each CP gives you a plus to the Mainattribute, Like setting a CP in the Magetree will increase your Max Magicka.

And if i set the CP into Critchance, i will get nearly the Same critchance then Pre 1.6. And i will have a much more Spelldmg and the Skills are now Properly scaled by Max Magicka / Spelldmg / Spellcrit.

So my opinion is: Just gear as you want, ignore Weapon dmg and take Items with Spelldmg (as a caster). If you have sets with 1% crit chance ignore them and pick other combinations with spelldmg or max magicka. Read the Skilldescriptions wisely and combine buffs you get. And then you can have much more fun then before

Why do people keep saying this? The OP's point was not that he could not attain the amount of crit or dps or power in 1.6 than he could from 1.5. It was the the specific high end gear that dropped from the game's most difficult content was noticeably reduced in its effectiveness and the factor it had in character development and progression.

Wasn't spell power increased to compensate for the crit reduction? Is there any proof that this conversion has actually made the gear worthless, or is everyone just assuming it did because of the drop in crit.

Islyn

Alphashado wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

The issue is:

Is the gear useful? Is it worth using over crafted sets?

No, it is not.

Crit is the same % as crafted sets, and the "unique bonuses" such as the added heavy attack damage of Infallible Aether were reduced to the point where having these sets is a bad deal.

Simply put, choosing a set that has +max magicka instead is better and that's sad.

All it really means is that the sets from the hardest content in the game are no longer worth wearing over crafted/other dropped sets. Numbers aside.

ZoS has changed their tune on a few other *cough B2P* topics, so their past comments are certainly not gospel. But one of the ideals they had way back at launch was to make sure that raiding gear never got more powerful than crafted gear. So this is nothing new. I thought it was a neat idea to add set bonus's to trial/dungeon gear so it had a different flavor. Cool set bonus's and maybe a different look. That way there would still be some form of incentive to farm trials etc for the gear.

Not saying I agree or disagree, but that is the concept they have had from the beginning. You should be able to craft gear that will always be on par with raid gear. The idea was to prevent progression gates. But the entire VR system is one gigantic progression gate, so who knows.

Wrong. Over dropped gear. Not raid gear.

Islyn

Joy_Division wrote: »

silentgecko wrote: »

i don't think that they nerfed the sets.

As said someone before: They Rebalanced Everything. And if you Combine the new calculated Sets with Champion Points and new Skills etc, then you could get better Stats than Pre 1.6.
Like Crit Chance %. You can use your Champion Points to increase CC.
As you can see in Screenshot:


These are my stats with NO Champion Points set yet. Remember: Each CP gives you a plus to the Mainattribute, Like setting a CP in the Magetree will increase your Max Magicka.

And if i set the CP into Critchance, i will get nearly the Same critchance then Pre 1.6. And i will have a much more Spelldmg and the Skills are now Properly scaled by Max Magicka / Spelldmg / Spellcrit.

So my opinion is: Just gear as you want, ignore Weapon dmg and take Items with Spelldmg (as a caster). If you have sets with 1% crit chance ignore them and pick other combinations with spelldmg or max magicka. Read the Skilldescriptions wisely and combine buffs you get. And then you can have much more fun then before

Why do people keep saying this? The OP's point was not that he could not attain the amount of crit or dps or power in 1.6 than he could from 1.5. It was the the specific high end gear that dropped from the game's most difficult content was noticeably reduced in its effectiveness and the factor it had in character development and progression.

Also the fact that it costs 24000 gold min to upgrade one trial piece not including glyphs.

Islyn

itsBishop wrote: »

silentgecko wrote: »

i don't think that they nerfed the sets.

As said someone before: They Rebalanced Everything.

And if you Combine the new calculated Sets with Champion Points and new Skills etc, then you could get better Stats than Pre 1.6.
Like Crit Chance %. You can use your Champion Points to increase CC.

The doctors didn't amputate his arm after he got in the car accident, they just reorganized his body plan.

The argument is more nuanced than simply saying "it's not a nerf, it's a rebalance!"

Sure, you can get your crit to values that are near what we have on live, but the point of this entire thread (and what is upsetting many of us end game raiders) is that to do so you must actively step away from the armor sets acquired from completing the most difficult content. This is the issue at hand; not whether the changes can be made up for by turning to other options.

I lol'd!

Alphashado

Islyn wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

The issue is:

Is the gear useful? Is it worth using over crafted sets?

No, it is not.

Crit is the same % as crafted sets, and the "unique bonuses" such as the added heavy attack damage of Infallible Aether were reduced to the point where having these sets is a bad deal.

Simply put, choosing a set that has +max magicka instead is better and that's sad.

All it really means is that the sets from the hardest content in the game are no longer worth wearing over crafted/other dropped sets. Numbers aside.

ZoS has changed their tune on a few other *cough B2P* topics, so their past comments are certainly not gospel. But one of the ideals they had way back at launch was to make sure that raiding gear never got more powerful than crafted gear. So this is nothing new. I thought it was a neat idea to add set bonus's to trial/dungeon gear so it had a different flavor. Cool set bonus's and maybe a different look. That way there would still be some form of incentive to farm trials etc for the gear.

Not saying I agree or disagree, but that is the concept they have had from the beginning. You should be able to craft gear that will always be on par with raid gear. The idea was to prevent progression gates. But the entire VR system is one gigantic progression gate, so who knows.

Wrong. Over dropped gear. Not raid gear.

Paul Sage
"" Crafted gear of equal level and equal quality rating is always better than dropped gear from a numerical standpoint. Weapons do more damage, armor has more… armor. However, certain enchantments can only be found on drops. Crafters can always improve those items which have unique enchantments.""

That was from March of 2014. Want me to find more?

Islyn

Yeah show me where he said elite or trials gear which came out the Summer after that.

That was before the game was released and well before trials and even rank v12 were.

Furthermore - quality rating. Trials gear HAS A HIGHER quality rating. That is the point.

It is bop for a reason. Unlike most trash drops which you can out-craft.

Islyn

Alphashado wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

silentgecko wrote: »

i don't think that they nerfed the sets.

As said someone before: They Rebalanced Everything. And if you Combine the new calculated Sets with Champion Points and new Skills etc, then you could get better Stats than Pre 1.6.
Like Crit Chance %. You can use your Champion Points to increase CC.
As you can see in Screenshot:


These are my stats with NO Champion Points set yet. Remember: Each CP gives you a plus to the Mainattribute, Like setting a CP in the Magetree will increase your Max Magicka.

And if i set the CP into Critchance, i will get nearly the Same critchance then Pre 1.6. And i will have a much more Spelldmg and the Skills are now Properly scaled by Max Magicka / Spelldmg / Spellcrit.

So my opinion is: Just gear as you want, ignore Weapon dmg and take Items with Spelldmg (as a caster). If you have sets with 1% crit chance ignore them and pick other combinations with spelldmg or max magicka. Read the Skilldescriptions wisely and combine buffs you get. And then you can have much more fun then before

Why do people keep saying this? The OP's point was not that he could not attain the amount of crit or dps or power in 1.6 than he could from 1.5. It was the the specific high end gear that dropped from the game's most difficult content was noticeably reduced in its effectiveness and the factor it had in character development and progression.

Wasn't spell power increased to compensate for the crit reduction? Is there any proof that this conversion has actually made the gear worthless, or is everyone just assuming it did because of the drop in crit.

Spell power is one thing how often an ability crits is another. Many abilites include various heightened and/or additional effects on crit - regardless of spell damage.

Joy_Division

Alphashado wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

The issue is:

Is the gear useful? Is it worth using over crafted sets?

No, it is not.

Crit is the same % as crafted sets, and the "unique bonuses" such as the added heavy attack damage of Infallible Aether were reduced to the point where having these sets is a bad deal.

Simply put, choosing a set that has +max magicka instead is better and that's sad.

All it really means is that the sets from the hardest content in the game are no longer worth wearing over crafted/other dropped sets. Numbers aside.

ZoS has changed their tune on a few other *cough B2P* topics, so their past comments are certainly not gospel. But one of the ideals they had way back at launch was to make sure that raiding gear never got more powerful than crafted gear. So this is nothing new. I thought it was a neat idea to add set bonus's to trial/dungeon gear so it had a different flavor. Cool set bonus's and maybe a different look. That way there would still be some form of incentive to farm trials etc for the gear.

Not saying I agree or disagree, but that is the concept they have had from the beginning. You should be able to craft gear that will always be on par with raid gear. The idea was to prevent progression gates. But the entire VR system is one gigantic progression gate, so who knows.

Wrong. Over dropped gear. Not raid gear.

Paul Sage
"" Crafted gear of equal level and equal quality rating is always better than dropped gear from a numerical standpoint. Weapons do more damage, armor has more… armor. However, certain enchantments can only be found on drops. Crafters can always improve those items which have unique enchantments.""

That was from March of 2014. Want me to find more?

Yes. The person you are quoting specifically said "Over dropped gear. Not raid gear."

Alphashado wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Why do people keep saying this? The OP's point was not that he could not attain the amount of crit or dps or power in 1.6 than he could from 1.5. It was the the specific high end gear that dropped from the game's most difficult content was noticeably reduced in its effectiveness and the factor it had in character development and progression.

Wasn't spell power increased to compensate for the crit reduction? Is there any proof that this conversion has actually made the gear worthless, or is everyone just assuming it did because of the drop in crit.

Nope, the gear is still nerfed as it gives no such special bonus to spellpower.

Torug pact's has just about the same ratio: 1.5 gives 8, 1.6 gives 179.
Infallible from first page in thread: 1.5 gives 9, 1.6 gives 177.

rophez_ESO

Islyn wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

The issue is:

Is the gear useful? Is it worth using over crafted sets?

No, it is not.

Crit is the same % as crafted sets, and the "unique bonuses" such as the added heavy attack damage of Infallible Aether were reduced to the point where having these sets is a bad deal.

Simply put, choosing a set that has +max magicka instead is better and that's sad.

All it really means is that the sets from the hardest content in the game are no longer worth wearing over crafted/other dropped sets. Numbers aside.

ZoS has changed their tune on a few other *cough B2P* topics, so their past comments are certainly not gospel. But one of the ideals they had way back at launch was to make sure that raiding gear never got more powerful than crafted gear. So this is nothing new. I thought it was a neat idea to add set bonus's to trial/dungeon gear so it had a different flavor. Cool set bonus's and maybe a different look. That way there would still be some form of incentive to farm trials etc for the gear.

Not saying I agree or disagree, but that is the concept they have had from the beginning. You should be able to craft gear that will always be on par with raid gear. The idea was to prevent progression gates. But the entire VR system is one gigantic progression gate, so who knows.

Wrong. Over dropped gear. Not raid gear.

Actually - raid gear is considered "dropped" - all gear other than crafted is. At least to this old MMO player.

liquid_wolf

Nerf targets a specific part in a system that hasn't changed.

In this case, the entire system seems to be changing. Nerf doesn't really qualify.

Alphashado

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

The issue is:

Is the gear useful? Is it worth using over crafted sets?

No, it is not.

Crit is the same % as crafted sets, and the "unique bonuses" such as the added heavy attack damage of Infallible Aether were reduced to the point where having these sets is a bad deal.

Simply put, choosing a set that has +max magicka instead is better and that's sad.

All it really means is that the sets from the hardest content in the game are no longer worth wearing over crafted/other dropped sets. Numbers aside.

ZoS has changed their tune on a few other *cough B2P* topics, so their past comments are certainly not gospel. But one of the ideals they had way back at launch was to make sure that raiding gear never got more powerful than crafted gear. So this is nothing new. I thought it was a neat idea to add set bonus's to trial/dungeon gear so it had a different flavor. Cool set bonus's and maybe a different look. That way there would still be some form of incentive to farm trials etc for the gear.

Not saying I agree or disagree, but that is the concept they have had from the beginning. You should be able to craft gear that will always be on par with raid gear. The idea was to prevent progression gates. But the entire VR system is one gigantic progression gate, so who knows.

Wrong. Over dropped gear. Not raid gear.

Actually - raid gear is considered "dropped" - all gear other than crafted is. At least to this old MMO player.

Exactly. And that's exactly what Paul meant when he said it. Dropped gear is dropped gear, regardless which mob or boss is dropping it and regardless what the location is. Look I'm not saying they didn't deviate from that for whatever reason. Clearly they did. Maybe they thought trial gear was getting too much better than crafted gear. They were getting a lot of feedback from players in regards to this. Just do a forum search on it.

We can debate till we're blue in the face about whether or not Paul and the rest of ZoS can or will change their minds on past comments. But what isn't up for debate is that they very clearly intended crafting gear to be as good as raid gear right from the start. Dropped gear is dropped gear. Period.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nope, the gear is still nerfed as it gives no such special bonus to spellpower.

Torug pact's has just about the same ratio: 1.5 gives 8, 1.6 gives 179.
Infallible from first page in thread: 1.5 gives 9, 1.6 gives 177.

I haven't done the math, But i've seen other people suggest that the Spell Power on those sets actually increased by comparrison via the conversion. My question still remains the same? How do we know it's a nerf just because crit was reduced? The overall contribution from the gear in relation to the bosses and your dps may still be the same and can't be proven otherwise unless guilds are using the converted sets (with new builds) and fail at trials or Arena because of the gear and not the builds. We all know that some builds were nerfed into the ground, but there are plenty of new builds that are just as good.

So until we use this gear in conjunction with new builds, do we truly know for sure that it's been nerfed?

s7732425ub17_ESO

Alphashado wrote: »

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

The issue is:

Is the gear useful? Is it worth using over crafted sets?

No, it is not.

Crit is the same % as crafted sets, and the "unique bonuses" such as the added heavy attack damage of Infallible Aether were reduced to the point where having these sets is a bad deal.

Simply put, choosing a set that has +max magicka instead is better and that's sad.

All it really means is that the sets from the hardest content in the game are no longer worth wearing over crafted/other dropped sets. Numbers aside.

ZoS has changed their tune on a few other *cough B2P* topics, so their past comments are certainly not gospel. But one of the ideals they had way back at launch was to make sure that raiding gear never got more powerful than crafted gear. So this is nothing new. I thought it was a neat idea to add set bonus's to trial/dungeon gear so it had a different flavor. Cool set bonus's and maybe a different look. That way there would still be some form of incentive to farm trials etc for the gear.

Not saying I agree or disagree, but that is the concept they have had from the beginning. You should be able to craft gear that will always be on par with raid gear. The idea was to prevent progression gates. But the entire VR system is one gigantic progression gate, so who knows.

Wrong. Over dropped gear. Not raid gear.

Actually - raid gear is considered "dropped" - all gear other than crafted is. At least to this old MMO player.

Exactly. And that's exactly what Paul meant when he said it. Dropped gear is dropped gear, regardless which mob or boss is dropping it and regardless what the location is. Look I'm not saying they didn't deviate from that for whatever reason. Clearly they did. Maybe they thought trial gear was getting too much better than crafted gear. They were getting a lot of feedback from players in regards to this. Just do a forum search on it.

We can debate till we're blue in the face about whether or not Paul and the rest of ZoS can or will change their minds on past comments. But what isn't up for debate is that they very clearly intended crafting gear to be as good as raid gear right from the start. Dropped gear is dropped gear. Period.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nope, the gear is still nerfed as it gives no such special bonus to spellpower.

Torug pact's has just about the same ratio: 1.5 gives 8, 1.6 gives 179.
Infallible from first page in thread: 1.5 gives 9, 1.6 gives 177.

I haven't done the math, But i've seen other people suggest that the Spell Power on those sets actually increased by comparrison via the conversion. My question still remains the same? How do we know it's a nerf just because crit was reduced? The overall contribution from the gear in relation to the bosses and your dps may still be the same and can't be proven otherwise unless guilds are using the converted sets (with new builds) and fail at trials or Arena because of the gear and not the builds. We all know that some builds were nerfed into the ground, but there are plenty of new builds that are just as good.

So until we use this gear in conjunction with new builds, do we truly know for sure that it's been nerfed?

This is what they thought in the beginning. They thought the crafting system would be much better. However, every single player that actually has spent any time in the game has 50/50 in all crafting lines and has researched pretty much all traits except nirnhoned.

Crafted gear means nothing. It's dirt cheap. I can get a full 8 trait set for 500g per piece. There's nothing "special" about it. This is not what they were hoping for AT LAUNCH.

Now, a year later, they see that dropped gear should be better (which is why they made the Trials sets and Undaunted Sets that are much, much better than crafted sets). People want something special for the time spent getting the gear. Now, in 1.6, there's no reason to use the Trials gear (except Hard Mode Medium Set which is still, by far, the best armor set in the game- but only .001% of players have that).

kaorunandrak

Hey sorry to interrupt the duel taking place here but does any one have the new stats for the berserking warrior set bonuses? the old values were 4% crit followed by 2% on every attack that stacks up to 5 times. Is it currently 0% crit with 0% on every hit? Like my pvp set that granted 10% crit?

Islyn

Oh apparently we have mindreaders on the forum. 'This is what Paul meant' okay.

I pretty much would bet people saying this sort of balderdash are not walking around in gold trials/dsa gear though.

Also - Quality. That is the key word in your failed argument. Crafted will be better than others of same quality.

Trials gear is higher quality. End of.

Anyway - Whatever floats your boat.

Enjoy your continued self-imposed mediocrity.

timidobserver

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

The issue is:

Is the gear useful? Is it worth using over crafted sets?

No, it is not.

Crit is the same % as crafted sets, and the "unique bonuses" such as the added heavy attack damage of Infallible Aether were reduced to the point where having these sets is a bad deal.

Simply put, choosing a set that has +max magicka instead is better and that's sad.

All it really means is that the sets from the hardest content in the game are no longer worth wearing over crafted/other dropped sets. Numbers aside.

ZoS has changed their tune on a few other *cough B2P* topics, so their past comments are certainly not gospel. But one of the ideals they had way back at launch was to make sure that raiding gear never got more powerful than crafted gear. So this is nothing new. I thought it was a neat idea to add set bonus's to trial/dungeon gear so it had a different flavor. Cool set bonus's and maybe a different look. That way there would still be some form of incentive to farm trials etc for the gear.

Not saying I agree or disagree, but that is the concept they have had from the beginning. You should be able to craft gear that will always be on par with raid gear. The idea was to prevent progression gates. But the entire VR system is one gigantic progression gate, so who knows.

Wrong. Over dropped gear. Not raid gear.

Actually - raid gear is considered "dropped" - all gear other than crafted is. At least to this old MMO player.

Exactly. And that's exactly what Paul meant when he said it. Dropped gear is dropped gear, regardless which mob or boss is dropping it and regardless what the location is. Look I'm not saying they didn't deviate from that for whatever reason. Clearly they did. Maybe they thought trial gear was getting too much better than crafted gear. They were getting a lot of feedback from players in regards to this. Just do a forum search on it.

We can debate till we're blue in the face about whether or not Paul and the rest of ZoS can or will change their minds on past comments. But what isn't up for debate is that they very clearly intended crafting gear to be as good as raid gear right from the start. Dropped gear is dropped gear. Period.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nope, the gear is still nerfed as it gives no such special bonus to spellpower.

Torug pact's has just about the same ratio: 1.5 gives 8, 1.6 gives 179.
Infallible from first page in thread: 1.5 gives 9, 1.6 gives 177.

I haven't done the math, But i've seen other people suggest that the Spell Power on those sets actually increased by comparrison via the conversion. My question still remains the same? How do we know it's a nerf just because crit was reduced? The overall contribution from the gear in relation to the bosses and your dps may still be the same and can't be proven otherwise unless guilds are using the converted sets (with new builds) and fail at trials or Arena because of the gear and not the builds. We all know that some builds were nerfed into the ground, but there are plenty of new builds that are just as good.

So until we use this gear in conjunction with new builds, do we truly know for sure that it's been nerfed?

This is what they thought in the beginning. They thought the crafting system would be much better. However, every single player that actually has spent any time in the game has 50/50 in all crafting lines and has researched pretty much all traits except nirnhoned.

Crafted gear means nothing. It's dirt cheap. I can get a full 8 trait set for 500g per piece. There's nothing "special" about it. This is not what they were hoping for AT LAUNCH.

Now, a year later, they see that dropped gear should be better (which is why they made the Trials sets and Undaunted Sets that are much, much better than crafted sets). People want something special for the time spent getting the gear. Now, in 1.6, there's no reason to use the Trials gear (except Hard Mode Medium Set which is still, by far, the best armor set in the game- but only .001% of players have that).

All of their decisions going forward will be focused on the boat load of incoming players from B2P and console. The game will soon see a large influx of non-end game players that are focused on leveling, therefore endgame gear and players do not matter to ZOS ATM.

Islyn

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

The issue is:

Is the gear useful? Is it worth using over crafted sets?

No, it is not.

Crit is the same % as crafted sets, and the "unique bonuses" such as the added heavy attack damage of Infallible Aether were reduced to the point where having these sets is a bad deal.

Simply put, choosing a set that has +max magicka instead is better and that's sad.

All it really means is that the sets from the hardest content in the game are no longer worth wearing over crafted/other dropped sets. Numbers aside.

ZoS has changed their tune on a few other *cough B2P* topics, so their past comments are certainly not gospel. But one of the ideals they had way back at launch was to make sure that raiding gear never got more powerful than crafted gear. So this is nothing new. I thought it was a neat idea to add set bonus's to trial/dungeon gear so it had a different flavor. Cool set bonus's and maybe a different look. That way there would still be some form of incentive to farm trials etc for the gear.

Not saying I agree or disagree, but that is the concept they have had from the beginning. You should be able to craft gear that will always be on par with raid gear. The idea was to prevent progression gates. But the entire VR system is one gigantic progression gate, so who knows.

Wrong. Over dropped gear. Not raid gear.

Actually - raid gear is considered "dropped" - all gear other than crafted is. At least to this old MMO player.

I see your point but it is all bop rather than most other drops and did not exist at time of quote by PS - nor did trials or even v12.

So people are referencing a quote applying to current items to support an argument (badly - the quality part of that statement redeems my point even if only luckily on my part) for nerfing items which came into existence well after the original quote was made.

Worse, same pre-early access quote is being used as an argument that nerfing the best gear now in the game nearly a year later is okay.

Joy_Division

Alphashado wrote: »

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

The issue is:

Is the gear useful? Is it worth using over crafted sets?

No, it is not.

Crit is the same % as crafted sets, and the "unique bonuses" such as the added heavy attack damage of Infallible Aether were reduced to the point where having these sets is a bad deal.

Simply put, choosing a set that has +max magicka instead is better and that's sad.

All it really means is that the sets from the hardest content in the game are no longer worth wearing over crafted/other dropped sets. Numbers aside.

ZoS has changed their tune on a few other *cough B2P* topics, so their past comments are certainly not gospel. But one of the ideals they had way back at launch was to make sure that raiding gear never got more powerful than crafted gear. So this is nothing new. I thought it was a neat idea to add set bonus's to trial/dungeon gear so it had a different flavor. Cool set bonus's and maybe a different look. That way there would still be some form of incentive to farm trials etc for the gear.

Not saying I agree or disagree, but that is the concept they have had from the beginning. You should be able to craft gear that will always be on par with raid gear. The idea was to prevent progression gates. But the entire VR system is one gigantic progression gate, so who knows.

Wrong. Over dropped gear. Not raid gear.

Actually - raid gear is considered "dropped" - all gear other than crafted is. At least to this old MMO player.

Exactly. And that's exactly what Paul meant when he said it. Dropped gear is dropped gear, regardless which mob or boss is dropping it and regardless what the location is. Look I'm not saying they didn't deviate from that for whatever reason. Clearly they did. Maybe they thought trial gear was getting too much better than crafted gear. They were getting a lot of feedback from players in regards to this. Just do a forum search on it.

We can debate till we're blue in the face about whether or not Paul and the rest of ZoS can or will change their minds on past comments. But what isn't up for debate is that they very clearly intended crafting gear to be as good as raid gear right from the start. Dropped gear is dropped gear. Period.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nope, the gear is still nerfed as it gives no such special bonus to spellpower.

Torug pact's has just about the same ratio: 1.5 gives 8, 1.6 gives 179.
Infallible from first page in thread: 1.5 gives 9, 1.6 gives 177.

I haven't done the math, But i've seen other people suggest that the Spell Power on those sets actually increased by comparrison via the conversion. My question still remains the same? How do we know it's a nerf just because crit was reduced? The overall contribution from the gear in relation to the bosses and your dps may still be the same and can't be proven otherwise unless guilds are using the converted sets (with new builds) and fail at trials or Arena because of the gear and not the builds. We all know that some builds were nerfed into the ground, but there are plenty of new builds that are just as good.

So until we use this gear in conjunction with new builds, do we truly know for sure that it's been nerfed?

First off, you have no idea what "exactly" Paul Sage meant and stop pretending you do.

Secondly, they did not "clearly" intend crafted gear to be better because the very first raid set - the Aether - was better than anything that could be crafted and remained so on Live. You are the very definition of confirmation bias.

Thirdly...those other people who "suggested" the spellpower on those sets were increased obviously did not take a look at the 1.6 Infallible Gear and other gear sets. This is more believing what you want to...rather than actually looking at two sets of gear and see their spellpower conversions from Live to 1.6 is similar, you will believe random folks who just suggest stuff you want to hear.

We know it is a nerf because NOTHING on the sets got buffed whereas 3 of its properties were nerfed. Think about it...whatever uber DPS boost you think will come from spellpower will also benefit everyone who wears a set that has spellpower! That is why everyone is hording Martial knowledge sets...incidentally a set that you can't craft.