New Values x 10 hard to swallow.

Wing

I agree with leaving the numbers alone, it is simply not needed and a small number system is by definition easy to understand and comprehend.

10 - 1
1000000000 - 100000000

you actually spend more time counting 0s then doing the math, and if I didn't have the 10 - 1 above it you would have to count them :P

angelyn

zward887_ESO wrote: »

I think I would have preferred a checkbox for 'advanced interface' or something in the gameplay settings instead to just show the decimal values. Alternatively, having the actual value show up in the tooltip or something.

This would have been best of both worlds. min/maxers see the progress and everyone else can blissfully ignore it without digit spam cluttering the UI.

I think this is a good idea..You can see it if you want to, or you can see the old numbers. I still think I need eg 2800 health, but since health only scaled on a ratio of 1/6 or 1/7 (unlike magicka/stam on a ratio of 1/10) I can't just think oh I need 28000 health..or maybe I do?I just won't have anything left for any other stat.

I'm still playing around with my new awesome pet sorc build, but unfortunately as I've died six times trying to kill a bunch of craglorn wasps I have nothing to share there.

I'm sure I'll have nostalgic days when I will remember the times I could actually kill a bunch of wasps with my crit surge build.

Merlight

theegoliathb14_ESO wrote: »

Heres a musical quote I feel totally applies to the new value sytem. "Less is more." I feel smaller numbers are easier to read and mentally do math faster on the fly.

Agreed.

curlyqloub14_ESO

Armitas wrote: »

They said they did it because all the champion system upgrades didn't feel "powerful" because they were numerically small. I can agree with that, getting 1 from something seems kinda weak. However over inflating everything will also makes numbers seem meaningless. It works both ways.

I remember reading something along those lines about the champion system not seeming powerful. And I remember thinking at the time "well then why not just make the CP increases bigger so that they ARE more powerful? Instead of 1% make it 5%?"

Anyway, agree the giant number on everything are just confusing and ridiculous.

pmn100b16_ESO

Yeah its made it hard to decipher. Before when we had 4 digits, no one cared what the last digit was. You got 2854 health, you may have been a bit concerned what the 3rd digit was, but the 4th could be 1-9, it didn't matter one jot.

So now they've given us a 2nd digit not to care about. You got 28542 health, the last 2 digits are now not worth knowing. But for some reason they're being displayed. Too much garbage numbers being thrown at us.

Domander

theegoliathb14_ESO wrote: »

Is anyone else having a difficult time swallowing the new larger value numbers for everything ( skill dmg, health, skill cost, etc..). I for one have a harder time digesting information if the number is xx,xxx vrs xxx. I dont need a larger number to feel good about changes in my character. Thats why rounding numbers was invented. Who cares about the extra .xx

Heres a musical quote I feel totally applies to the new value sytem. "Less is more." I feel smaller numbers are easier to read and mentally do math faster on the fly.

Yeah, you pretty much have to forget about what values were before 1.6.

WebBull

regardless of the 10x/extra digit, the problem is that nothing is consistent. Some functions are 10x, some 8x, some even less. That is why damage is completely out of whack. Put it back the way it was.

kimboh

I think the number change alone would have been fine, just a case of adjusting and getting used to it, but combining it with the skill/attribute rebalance and champion system has made 'testing' difficult.
With the familiar stats gone, I've had trouble trying to test new skills, with no way to tell how the new skills compare to the live version, it's impossible to tell if skills are working as intended or are unbalanced and need tweaking(with a few obvious exceptions)
It would have been better to test the skill rebalance with the live stats before introducing the scaled stats.

Edit: To clarify, I do not like the inflated stats.

NukeAllTheThings

The large numbers were intended to make every feel stronger and more powerful. But since I am a tin foil hat kind of guy I believe these numbers were expanded just to try and hide their nerfs in so many places. If they kept them the same this board would have EXPLODED and could see right through them cutting our stats forcing us to grind CP to get back to where we were in 1.5.X. Instead, we all know something doesn't feel right and none of the numbers make much sense.

It will take a few hours of testing and playing, but in a month or 2 it will all be figured out after we keep subbing until 1.6 hits live. What happens to with the long term customers who have been around since beta doesn't matter because we aren't their target. If we were, then we would have new content to play since we have already finished a significant portion of what has been released. This update was made for the new batch of B2P'rs in the hopes of snagging that box sale along with whatever is dumped into the cash shop.

tengri

This whole new values concept reminds me of the stories my grand parents told me about their own youth in the 1920s.
300 billion Reichsmark for a single egg.
25000 HP for my char.
Not there yet but apparently we are heading that way...

Armitas

tengri wrote: »

This whole new values concept reminds me of the stories my grand parents told me about their own youth in the 1920s.
300 billion Reichsmark for a single egg.
25000 HP for my char.
Not there yet but apparently we are heading that way...

Yeah, the Weimar Republic crossed my mind as well.

Varicite

I find it obnoxious personally.

I was happy to play a game again that didn't think that players needed to see such huge numbers to think they were doing big damage.

But apparently, I wasn't playing a game like that at all. : /

Poxheart

I also find this annoying & souls like to see the numbers kept as they are in the live game. Bigger numbers aren't better.

Animal_Mother

Yup, hate the new values. Bigger is not always better, especially when they are hiding the apparent nerfs to our characters and their equipment. I'm really not looking forward to grinding the Champion system to get where I currently am on live.

Wing

agreed again, this change was neither asked for nor required, please change it back.

Shadesofkin

As I play through a 1-50 on the PTS to get a feel for all that would be different on a new character I find myself annoyed at the numbers at they get bigger because I know they're inflated for the new system. I might not have known that if I were a new player, but throwing these things in now after nearly a year...it was an unnecessary move. Change it back please, or at least give us a toggle.

Mantic0r3

they cant just give us a toggle option since the scaling is NOT the same across the board.

Shadesofkin

Mantic0r3 wrote: »

they cant just give us a toggle option since the scaling is NOT the same across the board.

I suppose not, but then I really feel they need to just change it back.

C0pp3rhead

I must agree - the new numbers are not visually appealing, nor are they needed. The problem is not *CAN* we do the math, but instead it's *FASTER* to do math with fewer numbers.

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Yeah its made it hard to decipher. Before when we had 4 digits, no one cared what the last digit was. You got 2854 health, you may have been a bit concerned what the 3rd digit was, but the 4th could be 1-9, it didn't matter one jot.

So now they've given us a 2nd digit not to care about. You got 28542 health, the last 2 digits are now not worth knowing. But for some reason they're being displayed. Too much garbage numbers being thrown at us.

This is exactly my point. Your brain actually spends more time discounting the last 2 digits & sorting out the visual information.

I feel like they're hiding something from us. It seems weird that they would rollout a readjustment of our attribute ratios simultaneously with a number inflation. A basic tenet of science is testing one variable at a time - it makes it easier to see what happens when you tweak something. Changing them both at the same time is suspicious.

Mantic0r3

shadesofkinb14_ESO wrote: »

Mantic0r3 wrote: »

they cant just give us a toggle option since the scaling is NOT the same across the board.

I suppose not, but then I really feel they need to just change it back.

that i would agree with ^^ or DO scale by the same value across the board so we can do it ourself

right now its just hidden nerfs all over the place

Wing

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

I feel like they're hiding something from us. It seems weird that they would rollout a readjustment of our attribute ratios simultaneously with a number inflation. A basic tenet of science is testing one variable at a time - it makes it easier to see what happens when you tweak something. Changing them both at the same time is suspicious.

very much this, I feel it hides changes that we would otherwise notice right away, such as the health scaling reduction.

indigoblades

Joejudas wrote: »

im with the you on this. Pushing magic skill into the stam bar made it really really difficult to run an effective dps rotation as a DW. its going to take a ton of tinkering...and i honestly dont even know if in the end it will be worth it since we have to get like 500 cp points to make our VR14 stats comparable to pre 1.6

so my "reward for subscribing since the beginning" is getting my player nerfed until i earn 500-70 champ points. I am liking this 1.6 much much less. Both doing Balance and changing the scale by 5 to 10x makes it really hard to figure whats happening.

Nacario

They seem ok, if they were going from 5 digits to 6 it would be confusing and overdone though

Gyudan

Wing wrote: »

I agree with leaving the numbers alone, it is simply not needed and a small number system is by definition easy to understand and comprehend.

10 - 1
1000000000 - 100000000

you actually spend more time counting 0s then doing the math, and if I didn't have the 10 - 1 above it you would have to count them :P

I fully agree with this.

Increasing everything tenfold to show more meaningful number changes with the Champion System may have seemed like a good idea at first, but it actually makes everything harder to comprehend. I don't think that new players would find it intuitive either.

Suggestion
Put the numbers back as they were and allow add-ons to display 1 digit under the unit.
Example: the basic character page would show 3120 Health points and the addons would allow you to see if it's 3120.3 or 3119.9 Health points.

Morvul

Gyudan wrote: »

Suggestion
Put the numbers back as they were and allow add-ons to display 1 digit under the unit.
Example: the basic character page would show 3120 Health points and the addons would allow you to see if it's 3120.3 or 3119.9 Health points.

I very much support this idea!

McDoogs

The only value in it I can think of is that it confuses and distracts us from just how badly ZOS nerfed our health pools and regen rates.

TagaParti

forgive them about the big numbers. i think it was just a mistake, those big numbers are their expectation of sales from the crown store. too much skooma!

McDoogs

TagaParti wrote: »

forgive them about the big numbers. i think it was just a mistake, those big numbers are their expectation of sales from the crown store. too much skooma!

I wonder how many crowns I could pay for an add-on that reverts the number scaling...

Armitas

These are the numbers we might see in 6-7 years of game expansion. If we stick with these numbers then how ridiculous will it be once it's actually 6 years later.

Allicus

Fully agree with the comments made here. I do not like the new numbers, they are confusing to look at quickly and find myself dividing by ten all the time to try and compare the damage against live. ZOS take note, this thread so far no-one is coming out supporting this change.