Ultimate generation in 1.6

Alcast · January 2015

LonePirate wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Lol guys, it is not rly hard to use a LA/HA every 8 secs >.> Seems for some ppl that is already a too big burden to have.

On the live server, my DK kills 3 and 4 packs of trash mobs in less than 8 seconds and earns more Ultimate doing so than what I earn on the PTS now. I have to slow down my game play and use far less effective techniques if I want to build Ultimate. It is an absurd trade-off.

Well, with 1.6 DKs have to actually start looking out for resource management, no more 3-4 Standards at the same time

Same for batswarms/vob/Stormattros ofc

helediron · January 2015

NB siphoning mage build got heavy ulti nerf. The ulti generation takes now twice as long and Veil got nerfed too. I guess this was the intention. So i cry alittle with fellow DK crit mages and then we move along. Snif...

indigoblades · January 2015

i could regin a med sized ult ability on one large mob in crag just swinging and Brawling my great sword, sometimes twice. that seems enough for me. But i attack / weave and i dont permablock.

Syntse · January 2015

Don't think the ultimate generation is that bad... of course some people might have used to get ulti up every 2 seconds.

Here's video with the nb ulti that costs 125 so basically 2 times that and it's 250.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJt44eMzXys

Iyas · January 2015

Syntse wrote: »

Don't think the ultimate generation is that bad... of course some people might have used to get ulti up every 2 seconds.

Here's video with the nb ulti that costs 125 so basically 2 times that and it's 250.

Youre fighting undead mobs, so every dead zombie = 9 more ulti

IxSTALKERxI · January 2015

Syntse wrote: »

Don't think the ultimate generation is that bad... of course some people might have used to get ulti up every 2 seconds.

Here's video with the nb ulti that costs 125 so basically 2 times that and it's 250.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJt44eMzXys

The only reason you are getting ultimate is because of the Fighters guild passive which gives you ultimate every time you kill undead. Try fighting mobs that aren't undead.

Atarax · January 2015

sweetasbabyrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Just wondering what everyone things of the way ultimate is generated in 1.6. Personally i think it is too slow. It shouldnt be the way it is now, on my nb veil *** i can have 3 up at one time which is crazy. And i think 1.6 will benefit ranged users more as it is easier to get in a light/heavy attack first. More testing i guess.

Now that I've had a chance to test it. I really do not like this change. If some classes were able to generate ultimate faster than others, then give the slower classes a faster way to generate ultimate.

Ultimates felt right the way they were, you couldn't spam them like you can abilities, but you could basically use 1 per short fight, and if you were 1 v 1 they were precious, but in packs, when you needed them most, and you were doing something kind of heroic, you generated ultimate faster and they were there when you needed them.

Now, I'm more inclined to ignore my ultimates entirely, so they've become useless unless a raid leader calls for them.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ please tell them to revert ultimate generation to the way it was before 1.6. I understand this was to prevent spamming ultimates in PvP, but frankly, the only problem there was people not learning to get out of the aoes when they were up. The system itself was fine as it was.

Panda244 · January 2015

Atarax wrote: »

sweetasbabyrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Just wondering what everyone things of the way ultimate is generated in 1.6. Personally i think it is too slow. It shouldnt be the way it is now, on my nb veil *** i can have 3 up at one time which is crazy. And i think 1.6 will benefit ranged users more as it is easier to get in a light/heavy attack first. More testing i guess.

Now that I've had a chance to test it. I really do not like this change. If some classes were able to generate ultimate faster than others, then give the slower classes a faster way to generate ultimate.

Ultimates felt right the way they were, you couldn't spam them like you can abilities, but you could basically use 1 per short fight, and if you were 1 v 1 they were precious, but in packs, when you needed them most, and you were doing something kind of heroic, you generated ultimate faster and they were there when you needed them.

Now, I'm more inclined to ignore my ultimates entirely, so they've become useless unless a raid leader calls for them.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ please tell them to revert ultimate generation to the way it was please

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ I second this, give all classes the NB rate of ultimate gen on 1.5, without the siphon passive. NBs generated ultimate quickly, but not as quickly as DKs, and not as slowly as temps and sorcs. The ultimate gen in 1.6 is just... Horribad. And the ultimates aren't "Ultimate" in PvP they do jack damage and in PvE they're more used for utility than damage, so give us a base generation for ultimate that isn't poop or make them actually ultimate

xaade · January 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Lol guys, it is not rly hard to use a LA/HA every 8 secs >.> Seems for some ppl that is already a too big burden to have.

It just seems to be a lazy way to force people to break the flow of combat...

Could you imagine if you had to do a light attack every 8 seconds for your health regen to continue?

Why can't every action on a target result in the 8 second gain.

PBpsy · January 2015

xaade wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Lol guys, it is not rly hard to use a LA/HA every 8 secs >.> Seems for some ppl that is already a too big burden to have.

It just seems to be a lazy way to force people to break the flow of combat...

Could you imagine if you had to do a light attack every 8 seconds for your health regen to continue?

Why can't every action on a target result in the 8 second gain.

Oh dear. I bet they will bring this in 1.9 and say it was by popular demand.

RoamingRiverElk · January 2015

Revert the ultimate gain change back to the way it was. The 1.6 system is atrocious for a number of reasons that have already been discussed on the forums.

With 1.6 ultimate gain, ranged weapons will pretty much be mandatory in PvP. Melee weapon users cannot gain ultimate without having to dive in to a mass of players, without even having an ultimate up, while ranged weapon users can load their ultimates from far away. Freedom to play as you choose, eh? I probably don't even need to mention how DK resource management gets totally nerfed with this change.

Also, how exactly is it rewarding in any manner, to do a light or heavy attack and then be given a ticking counter towards an ultimate? The previous system was so much more responsive to the things you were actually doing. It rewarded you for doing things!

ZOS claims they want to support small group play in PvP... As someone who has been doing that for months now, I can tell you it is about to get a lot worse for small groups in 1.6. And imagine a 2 vs 8 situation... The eight will already have a massive advantage in that they have lots more resources, a lot more time, a lot more damage they can do, a lot more healing they can do... And now... they will gain ultimate just as fast as the two. Getting soul assaulted in a very clearly outnumbered situation has always felt cheap to me, but now with the added bonus of that ultimate cost being even lower, I can easily foresee how those fights will go. But in this situation, raising the cost of the ultimate is not the solution. It is in the way ultimates are generated. Looking at PvP from a more general perspective: human beings like variation. In games, you have different kinds of environments, different kinds of enemies. Do you really want *all* the fights to *always* end up in those who have bigger numbers winning in PvP? No, that new Alliance War skill is not enough, at all. By the way, you can still charge ultimate on the way from one keep to another... so many wolves, mudcrabs, Imperials, trolls...

I believe two reasons were given for the change in ultimate gain:
tanks in PvE, and ultimate generation out of combat. Instead of completely changing the system to a very, yes this once I am going to say it because it is so fitting, dumbed down version, why not just fix these two situations individually, if you must. For the record, I play a tank in PvE veteran dungeons just fine in the current system. I also don't have a problem with ultimate charging at all as a PvPer nor as a PvEr.

Proposition - keep ultimate gain as it has been for months now, and change these two things if it really is that needed:
Ultimate gain for tanks:
*taunting an enemy with more than 10k HP (old system) gives you a buff that gives you x ultimate in y seconds.
Out of combat ultimate charging:
*make it a requirement to be in combat for the ultimate to charge.

Wahee · January 2015

Just wait until you discover that in PvP light/heavy attacks against players with damage shields will not generate ultimate if they do not break the shield and land actual damage. Good luck ever having ult against a shield stacking build. For that matter, good luck being competitive if you don't shield stack.

Joejudas · January 2015

Wahee wrote: »

Just wait until you discover that in PvP light/heavy attacks against players with damage shields will not generate ultimate if they do not break the shield and land actual damage. Good luck ever having ult against a shield stacking build. For that matter, good luck being competitive if you don't shield stack.

o damn im glad i dont live in pvp land that often...if i had to deal with that i would loss it. PvE is just as broken though now so it guess its balance right. -____-

Panda244 · January 2015

Joejudas wrote: »

Wahee wrote: »

Just wait until you discover that in PvP light/heavy attacks against players with damage shields will not generate ultimate if they do not break the shield and land actual damage. Good luck ever having ult against a shield stacking build. For that matter, good luck being competitive if you don't shield stack.

o damn im glad i dont live in pvp land that often...if i had to deal with that i would loss it. PvE is just as broken though now so it guess its balance right. -____-

I'm just disappointed because ultimate were part of a DK's resource gen... Without them... Well..... No more OP DKs really... If we can't drop banner more than once a minute we're gonna get graped in 1vX situations in PvP... Dunno how it'll effect PvE... Though I imagine a DK tank won't be able to survive the first boss of Hel Ra anymore unless everyone slows the hell down out of DPS and lets the tank light attack every mob until magma armor is charged... And likewise when it comes to the last bosses... Also going to have to have high enough DPS that you can kill a trial boss without having to stack more than once, otherwise yousa phucked.

Joejudas · January 2015

Panda244 wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

Wahee wrote: »

Just wait until you discover that in PvP light/heavy attacks against players with damage shields will not generate ultimate if they do not break the shield and land actual damage. Good luck ever having ult against a shield stacking build. For that matter, good luck being competitive if you don't shield stack.

o damn im glad i dont live in pvp land that often...if i had to deal with that i would loss it. PvE is just as broken though now so it guess its balance right. -____-

I'm just disappointed because ultimate were part of a DK's resource gen... Without them... Well..... No more OP DKs really... If we can't drop banner more than once a minute we're gonna get graped in 1vX situations in PvP... Dunno how it'll effect PvE... Though I imagine a DK tank won't be able to survive the first boss of Hel Ra anymore unless everyone slows the hell down out of DPS and lets the tank light attack every mob until magma armor is charged... And likewise when it comes to the last bosses... Also going to have to have high enough DPS that you can kill a trial boss without having to stack more than once, otherwise yousa phucked.

Trials on the pts are very very very slow and very dangerous because everyone took a 50 percent nerf on their dps due to all the nerfs to armor and stats. Im a dk and the ult gain thing wouldnt be the hugest deal ever if it didnt take 14 years to gain 100 cp points. Someone did the math today and figured out it would take 50+ years to get 3600 points with the new system

Nijjion · January 2015

Yeah using melee/range auto attacks for ult regeneration is a really bad mechanic....

What they should of done is a similar system but when you're in combat you generate Ultimate(no need to start it off with an attack), maybe a bit of tweaking of uping it to 5ult a sec.

Though if I'm choosing what they would go with I wouldn't change how ults are generated due to now it doesn't matter how you play if you're a noob or the best person in the game you will most likely generate ult the same. Sure I wouldn't moan about this if it was like this at release but i guess ignorance is bliss

OtarTheMad · January 2015

They could just tweak it a little with passives because as it is right now everyone using melee won't generate ultimate as fast as ranged players. They should add passives to DW, 1h, 2H that gives you X amount of ultimate for being in combat (kind of like what the guy said above me). That should kind of even things out.

Saturn · January 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

I think it is fast enough if DK will be able to manage their resources well wnough with the loss of a lot resources fom battle spirit (I am Sorc).

But it's an awful mechanic for melee fighters as they suddenly have to use light or heavy attacks all the time. Especially it's pretty idiotic to force the tanks to do so every 8 seconds.

Honestly it is not too bad for Tanks and Healers, but more so for people who don't weave or never use light/heavy attacks in their rotation. What I am most annoyed by is the Werewolf nerf, since tanks can no longer benefit from Blood Rage to generate ultimate.. further more the Blood Spawn helmet won't give 25 ultimate on proc either, but instead just a "minor heroism buff" whatever the devil that is.

What my biggest speculation is though, is whether a shield bash counts as a light attack and can be used for generating ultimate, if so then I am fine with it since I encorporate shield bashes into my playstyle, because you know most people have no clue about interrupting npc abilities :<

Spangla · January 2015

Panda244 wrote: »

Atarax wrote: »

sweetasbabyrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Just wondering what everyone things of the way ultimate is generated in 1.6. Personally i think it is too slow. It shouldnt be the way it is now, on my nb veil *** i can have 3 up at one time which is crazy. And i think 1.6 will benefit ranged users more as it is easier to get in a light/heavy attack first. More testing i guess.

Now that I've had a chance to test it. I really do not like this change. If some classes were able to generate ultimate faster than others, then give the slower classes a faster way to generate ultimate.

Ultimates felt right the way they were, you couldn't spam them like you can abilities, but you could basically use 1 per short fight, and if you were 1 v 1 they were precious, but in packs, when you needed them most, and you were doing something kind of heroic, you generated ultimate faster and they were there when you needed them.

Now, I'm more inclined to ignore my ultimates entirely, so they've become useless unless a raid leader calls for them.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ please tell them to revert ultimate generation to the way it was please

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ I second this, give all classes the NB rate of ultimate gen on 1.5, without the siphon passive. NBs generated ultimate quickly, but not as quickly as DKs, and not as slowly as temps and sorcs. The ultimate gen in 1.6 is just... Horribad. And the ultimates aren't "Ultimate" in PvP they do jack damage and in PvE they're more used for utility than damage, so give us a base generation for ultimate that isn't poop or make them actually ultimate

erm No, unless you give nb's a class shield or burst heal like every other class has lol.

i can already tell your a dk - so used to having the upper hand constantly.

PenguinInACan · January 2015

From a decent amount of 1v1 testing the new ult gen is just another way to force the cs down people's throats.

You don't get the ult passives from the cs until you have 120 points in one constellation. Yes you can still generate a decent amount of ult weaving but if you weren't already doing that pre1.6 its going to be a little hard to adapt.

It is possible to sustain live server ult gen in both melee and ranged on the PTS but again, gotta animation cancel and pew pew.

From a templars perspective, weaving light attacks with puncturing sweep nets mucho ult. I frequently got bats off 3 to 4 times per 45 to 60 second duel. Same goes for resto light and gap closer to keep up the melee lights.

Overall it seems like a poor solution to ult spam.

Bouvin · January 2015

christoph.dessleb17_ESO wrote: »

it's an uncreative and wrong way to force players into the usage of light/heavy attacks. if you want something to be useful then think about the base concept and do it right.

as a result of this change animation cancelling will be even more important than it is now.

Uncreative is a good way to put it.

Other words that come to mind are dumbed-down, trash, easy way out, not-unique, lack of foresight by devs.

But ya, uncreative describes it pretty well.

Bouvin · January 2015

Spangla wrote: »

Penny will drop eventually - This change is not good so many threads have been made about this already.

Seriously looks like the new system was designed by a 10yr old.

Or a dev from a Korean Grinder MMO.

Maybe that's what they want though..with all this B2P (soon to be F2P trust me), cash shop, and grinding for CP nonsense. The game is quickly turning into a Koran MMO Grindfest Cash Shop Fueled Button Masher.

Good job ZOS taking a game with so much potential and so completely trashing it in one update.

Atarax · January 2015

Spangla wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Atarax wrote: »

sweetasbabyrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Just wondering what everyone things of the way ultimate is generated in 1.6. Personally i think it is too slow. It shouldnt be the way it is now, on my nb veil *** i can have 3 up at one time which is crazy. And i think 1.6 will benefit ranged users more as it is easier to get in a light/heavy attack first. More testing i guess.

Now that I've had a chance to test it. I really do not like this change. If some classes were able to generate ultimate faster than others, then give the slower classes a faster way to generate ultimate.

Ultimates felt right the way they were, you couldn't spam them like you can abilities, but you could basically use 1 per short fight, and if you were 1 v 1 they were precious, but in packs, when you needed them most, and you were doing something kind of heroic, you generated ultimate faster and they were there when you needed them.

Now, I'm more inclined to ignore my ultimates entirely, so they've become useless unless a raid leader calls for them.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ please tell them to revert ultimate generation to the way it was please

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ I second this, give all classes the NB rate of ultimate gen on 1.5, without the siphon passive. NBs generated ultimate quickly, but not as quickly as DKs, and not as slowly as temps and sorcs. The ultimate gen in 1.6 is just... Horribad. And the ultimates aren't "Ultimate" in PvP they do jack damage and in PvE they're more used for utility than damage, so give us a base generation for ultimate that isn't poop or make them actually ultimate

erm No, unless you give nb's a class shield or burst heal like every other class has lol.

i can already tell your a dk - so used to having the upper hand constantly.

@Spangla‌ ... I'm a NB. They took away our ultimate regeneration, AND nerfed damage reduction on Veil of Blades by 50%. Additionally, all classes pretty much (except Sorc, which gets a large reduction in cost) now get passives that allow them to generate additional ultimate on abilities they will spam, with the exception of Nightblade. Our passive has a 6 second cooldown. Sorc & Templar also get passives that lower ultimate costs flatout. We're getting trounced here in comparison to other classes, and people are not crunching the numbers to realize this.

Bring back ulti regen at least.

Varicite · January 2015

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

It is not hard it is just a stupid, lazy mechanic with no style or creativity.

As opposed to just spamming skills w/out ever having to do anything else.

I dunno, hitting 1 button seems a lot less creative than hitting 2 buttons. But not by much.

Bouvin · January 2015

Varicite wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

It is not hard it is just a stupid, lazy mechanic with no style or creativity.

As opposed to just spamming skills w/out ever having to do anything else.

I dunno, hitting 1 button seems a lot less creative than hitting 2 buttons. But not by much.

Yes, because people were only ever using 1 skill out of their 2 bars.

That's right.. they just ran around using 1 skill. Mhmm...

Varicite · January 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

It is not hard it is just a stupid, lazy mechanic with no style or creativity.

As opposed to just spamming skills w/out ever having to do anything else.

I dunno, hitting 1 button seems a lot less creative than hitting 2 buttons. But not by much.

Yes, because people were only ever using 1 skill out of their 2 bars.

That's right.. they just ran around using 1 skill. Mhmm...

And now they will hit 1 more button every 8 seconds.

Are you suggesting that using more of your abilities is somehow lazier than using less?

Your entire argument falls completely flat when met w/ any sort of logic...

Panda244 · January 2015

Spangla wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Atarax wrote: »

sweetasbabyrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Just wondering what everyone things of the way ultimate is generated in 1.6. Personally i think it is too slow. It shouldnt be the way it is now, on my nb veil *** i can have 3 up at one time which is crazy. And i think 1.6 will benefit ranged users more as it is easier to get in a light/heavy attack first. More testing i guess.

Now that I've had a chance to test it. I really do not like this change. If some classes were able to generate ultimate faster than others, then give the slower classes a faster way to generate ultimate.

Ultimates felt right the way they were, you couldn't spam them like you can abilities, but you could basically use 1 per short fight, and if you were 1 v 1 they were precious, but in packs, when you needed them most, and you were doing something kind of heroic, you generated ultimate faster and they were there when you needed them.

Now, I'm more inclined to ignore my ultimates entirely, so they've become useless unless a raid leader calls for them.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ please tell them to revert ultimate generation to the way it was please

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ I second this, give all classes the NB rate of ultimate gen on 1.5, without the siphon passive. NBs generated ultimate quickly, but not as quickly as DKs, and not as slowly as temps and sorcs. The ultimate gen in 1.6 is just... Horribad. And the ultimates aren't "Ultimate" in PvP they do jack damage and in PvE they're more used for utility than damage, so give us a base generation for ultimate that isn't poop or make them actually ultimate

erm No, unless you give nb's a class shield or burst heal like every other class has lol.

i can already tell your a dk - so used to having the upper hand constantly.

My main is a NB, I just play my DK more in PvP.... NB is the PvE toon atm, and DK only has the upper hand until someone intelligent comes along and fears them, eclipses them, heal debuffs them, throws shades on them, etc. Also.
You're*

Atarax wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Atarax wrote: »

sweetasbabyrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Just wondering what everyone things of the way ultimate is generated in 1.6. Personally i think it is too slow. It shouldnt be the way it is now, on my nb veil *** i can have 3 up at one time which is crazy. And i think 1.6 will benefit ranged users more as it is easier to get in a light/heavy attack first. More testing i guess.

Now that I've had a chance to test it. I really do not like this change. If some classes were able to generate ultimate faster than others, then give the slower classes a faster way to generate ultimate.

Ultimates felt right the way they were, you couldn't spam them like you can abilities, but you could basically use 1 per short fight, and if you were 1 v 1 they were precious, but in packs, when you needed them most, and you were doing something kind of heroic, you generated ultimate faster and they were there when you needed them.

Now, I'm more inclined to ignore my ultimates entirely, so they've become useless unless a raid leader calls for them.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ please tell them to revert ultimate generation to the way it was please

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ I second this, give all classes the NB rate of ultimate gen on 1.5, without the siphon passive. NBs generated ultimate quickly, but not as quickly as DKs, and not as slowly as temps and sorcs. The ultimate gen in 1.6 is just... Horribad. And the ultimates aren't "Ultimate" in PvP they do jack damage and in PvE they're more used for utility than damage, so give us a base generation for ultimate that isn't poop or make them actually ultimate

erm No, unless you give nb's a class shield or burst heal like every other class has lol.

i can already tell your a dk - so used to having the upper hand constantly.

@Spangla‌ ... I'm a NB. They took away our ultimate regeneration, AND nerfed damage reduction on Veil of Blades by 50%. Additionally, all classes pretty much now get passives that allow them to generate additional ultimate on abilities they will spam, with the exception of Nightblade. Our only spammable ability that can generate ultimate is the vieled strike line, which is not something we spam. Sorc & Templar also get passives that lower ultimate costs flatout. We're getting trounced here in comparison to other classes, and people are not crunching the numbers to realize this.

Bring back ulti regen at least.

+1, imo every class should get the ultimate gain that NBs had, they got a decent amount but it wasn't blatantly OP like the DK ult gen where you use fire ring twice on 6 people and drop banner.

bovardjeff_ESO · February 2015

ok all these posts saying tanks suffer from this...well its LIES
I play a Templar tank and well im gaining ultimate faster than I ever had in live.
I never even used nova since I couldn't generate enough ult to use it in a boss fight.

bovardjeff_ESO · February 2015

another point is that while yes it nerfs dragon knights ...its not uncalled for.
They gain crazy resource from one ultimate and being able to use banner 5-6 times in a fight is crazy op. I can barely use nova once ._. its the same cost as a fully ranked werewolf ultimate.
look if you really think taking one second to throw in a light attack will matter while tanking a boss you have no idea how tanking really works.
most bosses use heavy attacks as well which opens more than enough time to swing in a light attack for some ult generation. I am a great tank so says pretty much everyone I have rolled pledges and trials with and I know when to block and when to attack and believe me no tank ever NEEDS to hold block the entire fight to stay tanking.

bovardjeff_ESO · February 2015

oh and realize that if they attempted to stick with and alter the old ult gen system then GUARANTEED the light armor vamp dk spammers would have found a way to incorporate any increase tanks got into their own rotations and ult gen thus KEEPING them above others in ult generation.
THAT is what the devs were trying to avoid with this decision...its uniform ..available to everyone...and honestly yes archers can use light attack from range but any decent melee build in pvp will have a way to get close to the enemy quickly enough to close that 8 second gap pretty quick