Sorc 1.6 Discussion

Kilandros

ItsRejectz wrote: »

To the people who are saying just give up on sorc and that it won't ever get fixed... Be patient! Look at nightblades. 10 months ago you had people asking for people to run dungeons but then add "no nightmares" ...As they were broken to hell and under powered, now look at them.

I have every ounce of faith that one day sorcs will get the love they need from the devs

The difference is that Nightblades have been steadily buffed while Sorcerers have been steadily nerfed. I have enough MMO experience to know that once Developers continue nerfing an already weak class, it's because they're trying to shoehorn that class into a niche role.

TheLaw

As a 2-handed magika sorc, I'm fairly happy with 1.6 overall for PVP. However, I really think they should take another look at streak. It was nerfed way too hard, far too early.

angelyn

MAGE GUILD CHANGES
A few people have mentioned that the Mage Guild skills are now very good. I've had to put this to "paper" as I'm not that familiar with the new buff terminology. This is what I've found so far:


So on the whole:

Pros
• Entropy now has increased spell damage by 20% for 20 seconds(Major Sorcery)
• Might of the guild used to have increased spell damage on next attack. This damage is now widened to any type of damage (Major Empower). This means that it will be useful regardless of if you focus on weapon damage/spell damage.

Cons
• No longer will any mage guild ability trigger the increase spell damage by 20% on next attack for 8%. This effect now only applies to entropy with changes as per above.

I'm not sure if this is 100% but just what I've roughly figured out.(I've not listed the base effect of the skill in the post 1.6 column, just the changes). I'm also assuming that the effects from entropy also apply when taking either morph.

Black_Wolf88

also right now it seems to be the end of light armor sorcs. according to http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/148766/heavy-armor-is-so-op-in-1-6 heavy armor is the way to go. even for sorcs.

Digiman

Garion wrote: »

Post here what I posted elsewhere:

The change to crit surge is unacceptable. You take the ONLY viable class specific healing spell which is COMPLETELY reliant on combat anyway and significantly reduce its viability? It is absolutely ridiculous.

ZOS please fix this. This change may seem trivial, but to a lot of sorcs this fundamentally destroys our build and significantly decreases our viability in anything but 1v1 situations.

Oh its worse then that. I tested the numbers. At most when your against a group of mobs before 1.6 you could last longer as the heal you did with AoE attacks would sustain against normal mobs. While being useless against strong one. Now it seems that normal mobs will tear you apart, especially if your a cloth caster.

With no actual self heal through damage the most you can do in solo to survive is as people have already stated stick with your pets.

Exstazik

pppontus wrote: »

I don't get the whole "sorc sucks now because SURGE". Congrats, there are now more skills to use that are actually useful, isn't that what we wanted all along? All things considered I feel sorcs are in a pretty good spot on the PTS now. You can now use more than 2 skills to DPS.

All classes have lost some AOE survivability, if Crit Surge stayed the way it is it would be so ridiculously OP.

Some of the suggestions like giving 20% spell damage AND increase all damage done by 25% AND HEAL FOR 65% with no cooldown?!!

Honestly, what the *** ***...

With the stupid templates frags hit harder than snipe and with a shorter cast time. When we have some accurate numbers to go on, then complain if the DPS is not on par.

I recommend more time testing builds, less time worrying about surge. I've always preferred Power Surge anyway. You can solo without constant 6x300 healing crit surge, in case that wasn't obvious

Heal for 65% with 1 sec CD.But Aoe heal should count as total AOE damage done from skill*0,65.On Live surge up weapon power by
43% abd on Live only 25% it's a huge nerf.So "Yes" adding berserk buff 1 of the suggestion.

XEVENEX

We seigin' all yo castles, snatchin' yo resources up so hide yo scrolls cuz Sorcs be rapein' errybody out hurr.

rophez_ESO

I finally got a chance to try out my sorc-orc. He's a two handed stamina build. He does just fine on PTS - pretty much the same as on live. I was able to kill double packs of wasps in Craglorn, for instance. The thing is - his build only uses 1 sorc ability - streak. Other than that he's using 2H, guild and vampire abilities.

It's kind of a shame, but momentum is preferable to surge now, as it can be relied on. Surge will not really be used by any sorcs, imo - it doesn't do anything other skills don't do better, no matter what morph you pick.

One other change I made to my build to compensate for the two nerfs that affected my build: Because I can't use carve to gain an ultimate every few seconds, and because I don't have reliable crit surge heals, I changed my cleave morph to bruiser. It makes me survive packs pretty easily.

RinaldoGandolphi

I think Surge can still be very useful.

Cast Surge and then Cast Entropy, the two stack...you can do a lot of Crushing Shock Damage that way.

Shards got a big buff...the instant proc gives 50% more damage to boot...that thing will hit hard now.

Encase is much cheaper and i love Restraining Prison. Rune Prison would be good for those stealth archers that want to shoot you when peair with Radiant Magelight.

and Pets, oh my the Pets!!!!! Combining Empowered Ward and Daedric Prey makes pets UBER!!!!!! if you have them both out that the same time they will pretty much destroy anything in your way. If players in PVP ignore them, those uber buffed pets will kill them. The Clannfears Tail whip hits hard with the Empowered Ward + Daedric Prey combo, the Twilight does very good damage now...

I think the Surge changes are a bummer, but stacking Entropy and Power Surge may be better from a damage standpoint.

Snit

Iselin wrote: »

any other strategy for a destro sorc for dealing with those same groups...

I'm asking seriously not just bitching about the nerfs - how do we realistically cope with those groups without just asking for help to do the content everyone else can solo?

I wonder the same thing. The removal of Critical Surge makes me wonder whether I can still solo PvE content.My playtime consists of PvP and solo PvE (usually Craglorn overland mobs). If the latter is no longer feasible, that's the end of the class for me.

I understand Trials balance is important to many. I doubt I am the only person for whom it's not, though.

Exstazik

Snit wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

any other strategy for a destro sorc for dealing with those same groups...

I'm asking seriously not just bitching about the nerfs - how do we realistically cope with those groups without just asking for help to do the content everyone else can solo?

I wonder the same thing. The removal of Critical Surge makes me wonder whether I can still solo PvE content.My playtime consists of PvP and solo PvE (usually Craglorn overland mobs). If the latter is no longer feasible, that's the end of the class for me.

I understand Trials balance is important to many. I doubt I am the only person for whom it's not, though.

Forgot about Solo Craglorn due Crit surge heal with 1 sec CD.If you use AOE-only 1 hit from overall will heal you.Pet build also very bad compare to old CS-CF.If you want to do the same DMG(as you do on Live) with surge+CS you need Power surge morph(without heal) or you need to use entropy.Using Crit surge+entropy--> loose DPS due to recasting 2 buff instead of one.
P.S.
Light/Heavy attack scale with weapon power
Crushing shock scale with spell power
Why not to scale Destro/Resto attacks with Spell power?It's magic staffs....fire ball/Electricity/ice/heal beam....all-magicka.It's not physics attack

silentgecko

woodsro wrote: »

I think Surge can still be very useful.

Cast Surge and then Cast Entropy, the two stack...you can do a lot of Crushing Shock Damage that way.

I think the Surge changes are a bummer, but stacking Entropy and Power Surge may be better from a damage standpoint.

And here is the Buggy Thing (DKs with Inner Light and their Flame Light is the same): The both skill gave you the same Major Buff. As we read in the Patchnotes:

Standardized most of the buffs and debuffs that were applied by abilities.
For each buff, there is a Major (larger benefit) and a Minor (smaller benefit) type.
In order to make the new, standardized buffs as impactful as possible, these buffs are no longer able to stack with each other. Buffs of different types can all be active at once, but not two of the same buff.
For example, you can be affected by both Major Evasion and Major Empower, but not by two separate Major Evasion buffs.

This is a Bug, that you can use Surge and Entropy and they stack. And i think the devs know it. And they will Fix that. So don't test it now on PTS and be happy about your DPS, when it goes live and they fixed it, you will cry

Erock25

woodsro wrote: »

I think Surge can still be very useful.

Cast Surge and then Cast Entropy, the two stack...you can do a lot of Crushing Shock Damage that way.

Crushing Shock is only affected by Spell Power so I'm assuming you're talking about Power Surge (the one that gives Major Brutality and Major Sorcery) and the Major Sorcery from Power Surge certainly does not stack with the Major Sorcery buff from Entropy.

pppontus

Exstazik wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

I don't get the whole "sorc sucks now because SURGE". Congrats, there are now more skills to use that are actually useful, isn't that what we wanted all along? All things considered I feel sorcs are in a pretty good spot on the PTS now. You can now use more than 2 skills to DPS.

All classes have lost some AOE survivability, if Crit Surge stayed the way it is it would be so ridiculously OP.

Some of the suggestions like giving 20% spell damage AND increase all damage done by 25% AND HEAL FOR 65% with no cooldown?!!

Honestly, what the *** ***...

With the stupid templates frags hit harder than snipe and with a shorter cast time. When we have some accurate numbers to go on, then complain if the DPS is not on par.

I recommend more time testing builds, less time worrying about surge. I've always preferred Power Surge anyway. You can solo without constant 6x300 healing crit surge, in case that wasn't obvious

Heal for 65% with 1 sec CD.But Aoe heal should count as total AOE damage done from skill*0,65.On Live surge up weapon power by
43% abd on Live only 25% it's a huge nerf.So "Yes" adding berserk buff 1 of the suggestion.

What you're suggesting is that Sorcs get spell power, massive healing and aggressive warhorn in one cheap instant skill. The only thing less balanced than that would be a oneshot nuke AOE.

Locke_ESO

If Power Surge gives the Major Brutality (+20% wpn dmg) and Major Sorcery buff and staff damage is based on weapon damage then it seems like the most useful option for DPS. Weaving seems much easier with the new animations plus of course the ultimate changes so there isn't really a good reason not to be doing it.

I can't really talk about Crit surge because I never used it anyway but it seems to me if you want to solo in Craglorn as a LA magicka Sorcerer then you want to be a Vampire.

For PvP I will be interested to see the new meta but I strongly suspect that full LA is going to be a considerable weakness. Hybrid seems the way to go.

Grunim

Snit wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

any other strategy for a destro sorc for dealing with those same groups...

I'm asking seriously not just bitching about the nerfs - how do we realistically cope with those groups without just asking for help to do the content everyone else can solo?

I wonder the same thing. The removal of Critical Surge makes me wonder whether I can still solo PvE content.My playtime consists of PvP and solo PvE (usually Craglorn overland mobs). If the latter is no longer feasible, that's the end of the class for me.

I understand Trials balance is important to many. I doubt I am the only person for whom it's not, though.

Yep, my playtime is usually group PvP and solo PvE. I don't do veteran dungeons and trials, I find "Endgame" group PvE to be too stressful. Non Vet dungeons are the perfect difficulty for me, but the other group PvE stuff is too scary

I have a feeling I'll have to put the sorc away and focus on playing easier classes like templar and dragonknight.

Pyatra

Erock25 wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

I think Surge can still be very useful.

Cast Surge and then Cast Entropy, the two stack...you can do a lot of Crushing Shock Damage that way.

Crushing Shock is only affected by Spell Power so I'm assuming you're talking about Power Surge (the one that gives Major Brutality and Major Sorcery) and the Major Sorcery from Power Surge certainly does not stack with the Major Sorcery buff from Entropy.

Agreed that is shouldn't, Even if it does now, as stated earlier it will be fixed.

Emma_Overload

Snit wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

any other strategy for a destro sorc for dealing with those same groups...

I'm asking seriously not just bitching about the nerfs - how do we realistically cope with those groups without just asking for help to do the content everyone else can solo?

The removal of Critical Surge makes me wonder whether I can still solo PvE content.My playtime consists of PvP and solo PvE (usually Craglorn overland mobs)..

I've been testing this scenario on the PTS, and here's what I found:

1) You can forget about burning down Craglorn mobs with AOE - you'll die before they do.

2) What you CAN do is send your Clannfear in first (from stealth) to make the mobs bunch up around him, then lay down a Lightning Splash and rush in with a 2-Hander and use Brawler repeatedly while keeping your Clannfear alive with applications of the Empowered Ward. You probably want a Healing Staff on your other bar with Combat Prayer to heal both you and the pet when needed.

This type of combat works, but it is very SLOW and fiddly. I don't really like it. I want to be a bad-a-s wizard like Gandalf smashing my staff down, you know what I mean?

Robbmrp

Nightreaver wrote: »

The question I have is why is it acceptable for Stamina builds to get both a damage + Heal option while Magicka builds must choose between one or the other? Why have a base ability that is completely worthless for Magicka builds and yet require Magicka builds to assign points to it and spend time leveling it just to reach a morph they can use?
And if the solution is to just not get hit then why is there healing in the game? Why does any class need healing if all anyone needs to do is not take damage?

Each Class should have a Damage/Heal combo spell but don't which is part of the Class imbalance. A Templar has Puncturing Strikes when morphed into Puncturing Sweeps heals you while doing damage. It's also based off the number of enemies it's hitting, when fighting 3-5 with this spell it does massive healing.

Pyatra

Entropy's morph is BA now, so look into using it.

Holycannoli

Pyatra wrote: »

Entropy's morph is BA now, so look into using it.

Which morph though? I'm still thinking Structured Entropy will be more useful unless you use Overload.

angelyn

I've posted this elsewhere but there be so many threads and I don't know which one the devs may see:
LIGHT ARMOUR MAGICKA SORCS HIT 3 TIMES OVER IN THIS UPDATE:

• Nerfed health of all players- didn't scale health up same amount as other stats
• Nerfed light armour -to provide only 25% protection that heavy can
• Nerfed only remotely reliable healing for class- crit surge.

CRIT SURGE WAS THE ONLY REMOTELY RELIABLE SELF HEAL IN OUR OWN SKILL TREE(PVE)
So the main reason they nerfed Crit surge healing was due to the combination of impenetrable & AOE changes that will affect PVP? I can understand how the new AOE system means that healing off of a high crit AOE ability might make you OP.However, I wondered why all AOE healing abilities for all classes didn't have a 1 second cooldown implemented.

Even if there was no cooldown I have to choose between weapon power+healing or boost to spell power:

• Stamina sorcs get healing(albiet at 1 second cooldown nerf rate)plus increased damage
  
• Magicka sorcs get increased damage

Why should I PVE magicka sorc now have no viable self healing skills from my own class because they redesigned the AOE and impenetrable system?I'm not saying that the AOE changes or the Impenetrable changes are bad. I'm only saying that as a class, sorcerer's have no real self healing skill now because ZOS rendered our only remotely reliable heal (in PVE!) useless. In addition, they did this to stop their new system from affecting PVP negatively.

And even for stamina sorcs, a 1 second cooldown on the only remotely reliable heal from our own class tree will probably now not make it onto their bar. However, they may actually get some heals in PVP with the changes to impenetrable?

ANY OTHER RELIABLE SELF HEALS IN OUR OWN SKILL TREE?
There is hardened ward as an alternative to heal but because from now on all sorcs have to use pets, we will be picking the empowered ward morph instead so that we can have measly DPS.

Dark Exchange is another class ability that has promise for both magicka and stamina sorcs, but its rendered useless by the fact that it's a channeled ability.

IDEAL SOLUTION
@NordJitsu suggestion in this thread:http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/148366/surge-in-1-6/p1

NordJitsu wrote: »

The answer is clear.

Critical Surge (base skill): Costs magicka. Critical hits heal you for 65% of damage dealt.

Power Surge (morph): Costs Stamina, Buffs Weapon Power (Major Brutality or whatever the hell), and Critical Hits Heal you for 65% of damage dealt.

Spell Surge (morph): Cost Magicka, Buffs Spell Damage (Major Sorcery), and Critical hits heal you for 65% of damage dealt.

This is the only acceptable solution.

NordJitsu wrote: »

I don't think there'd be any need to reduce the % if they capped it at 6 targets like they said they're doing with all secondary effects.

ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION IF NOT WILLING TO CHANGE SURGE
Make Dark Exchange it an instant cast like @Kilandros suggested in this post:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/147868/suggestion-dark-exchange

Either way sorcs will actually have something in the SORCERER tree that can reliably heal them. That is the reason why so many sorcs are complaining. Give me a reliable heal in my own class tree.

Rioht

I just looked through the 1.6 nightblade and 1.6 templar discussions .

Jesus christ, its times like this that I really wish I just went with Templar from the start. Sorc is hurting badly for buffs and all we are getting is more and more nerfs. Very disheartening.

NotSo

Tried making suggestions for surge here http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/148958/zos-1-6-critical-surge-alternate-suggestions#latest
Basically trying to find a good median or compromise.

angelyn

NotSo wrote: »

Tried making suggestions for surge here http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/148958/zos-1-6-critical-surge-alternate-suggestions#latest
Basically trying to find a good median or compromise.

Thanks @NotSo, I've posted it there too..Hopefully, one of the devs might hear of our thoughts.

Gorthax

xherics wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Here is a good pvp pet build.

resto bar:
pet
pet
empowered ward
harness magicka
rapid regen

Destro bar:
pet
pet
daedric curse pet morph
force shock or endless fury or crystal frag or destructive touch for final skills

this type of build does insane dps in light armor with maxed out magicka and has great survivability due to shield stacking and hots.

Maybe this is good for PvP, but tell me, who will take you with this *** into a trials or DSA? Nobody. Why? Bcs this build is not DPS, just a grandmothers pet build, do not mention, that pets die faster than the caster can recast them - especially in DSA where *** of mobs coming in each round... And do not mention, that the pets are still bugged and there is no option to command them to attack the specified target, they are running like a chickens..

The biggest problem is, that ZOS forces us to use this *** in everywhere, PvE - PvP as well...

you are aware that Holding the default key --> Y <-- then left clicking while highlighting said target makes them attack, then doing the same thing but right clicking makes them come back to you.....

Gorthax

Derra wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Sabre does make one point with which I agree, having given it some thought: Perhaps we should stop thinking of Critical Surge as our class heal, and give that label to Hardened Ward. Hardened Ward is still pretty solid.

Hardened ward and the resulting shield stacking is frownend upon by most of the community. However its the way to play for a sorc atleast in pvp. Not much other choices left.
15000 points dmg shield is nice though. Have not seen a heal that high

15k damage shield? Enlighten me, mine is only 8k @Derra‌

@Gorthax @XEVENEX sry i went to bed. Here you go:

I get about 9.3k base shield (who the hell thought it was smart to level skills? i won´t test anything this way) with the crap gear without any max magica (1 bonus actually) on the pts right now @ 28500 magica (bufffood providing about 2.9k magica equal about 1100 shieldstrengh). Other stats in Cyro are 21k health 13k stam.
If it scales linear i will reach about 35k to 37k magica with my "live" equipment. This will equal about 11 to 12k base shield strengh + 33%.

@Derra‌

My shield is roughly 8.1k and I have 28.3 magicka right now. so an extra 200 magicka will make that huge of a jump?

Kingdinguhling

What if to fix Sorc they fixed Dark Exchange by making it a DOT Effect so we can actually move and cast just tap and Fill me up over time ... certainly wont be able to spam it.

XEVENEX

Gorthax wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Sabre does make one point with which I agree, having given it some thought: Perhaps we should stop thinking of Critical Surge as our class heal, and give that label to Hardened Ward. Hardened Ward is still pretty solid.

Hardened ward and the resulting shield stacking is frownend upon by most of the community. However its the way to play for a sorc atleast in pvp. Not much other choices left.
15000 points dmg shield is nice though. Have not seen a heal that high

15k damage shield? Enlighten me, mine is only 8k @Derra‌

@Gorthax @XEVENEX sry i went to bed. Here you go:

I get about 9.3k base shield (who the hell thought it was smart to level skills? i won´t test anything this way) with the crap gear without any max magica (1 bonus actually) on the pts right now @ 28500 magica (bufffood providing about 2.9k magica equal about 1100 shieldstrengh). Other stats in Cyro are 21k health 13k stam.
If it scales linear i will reach about 35k to 37k magica with my "live" equipment. This will equal about 11 to 12k base shield strengh + 33%.

@Derra‌

My shield is roughly 8.1k and I have 28.3 magicka right now. so an extra 200 magicka will make that huge of a jump?

If you look at the tooltip on hardened ward it says increases strength by 33%. You're getting 8.1k + 33% which is roughly 11k. You'll need an add on to see it, but its there. Your shield is 11k if you took the hardened ward morph. You can also spend champion points to increase that even further.

Gorthax

XEVENEX wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Sabre does make one point with which I agree, having given it some thought: Perhaps we should stop thinking of Critical Surge as our class heal, and give that label to Hardened Ward. Hardened Ward is still pretty solid.

Hardened ward and the resulting shield stacking is frownend upon by most of the community. However its the way to play for a sorc atleast in pvp. Not much other choices left.
15000 points dmg shield is nice though. Have not seen a heal that high

15k damage shield? Enlighten me, mine is only 8k @Derra‌

@Gorthax @XEVENEX sry i went to bed. Here you go:

I get about 9.3k base shield (who the hell thought it was smart to level skills? i won´t test anything this way) with the crap gear without any max magica (1 bonus actually) on the pts right now @ 28500 magica (bufffood providing about 2.9k magica equal about 1100 shieldstrengh). Other stats in Cyro are 21k health 13k stam.
If it scales linear i will reach about 35k to 37k magica with my "live" equipment. This will equal about 11 to 12k base shield strengh + 33%.

@Derra‌

My shield is roughly 8.1k and I have 28.3 magicka right now. so an extra 200 magicka will make that huge of a jump?

If you look at the tooltip on hardened ward it says increases strength by 33%. You're getting 8.1k + 33% which is roughly 11k. You'll need an add on to see it, but its there. Your shield is 11k if you took the hardened ward morph. You can also spend champion points to increase that even further.

I ran the pet one to increase pet damage