Sorc 1.6 Discussion

Robbmrp

Leovolao wrote: »

Just gonna share what someone else posted in another thread, this is how sorc self heal looks at the moment in PTS.

This clearly proves that the healing abilities on a Sorcerer just suck. There was 8 Crits done before it triggered again. There were muplitle spells being used. How is that a 1 second cool down???? If you took this same read out from a Dragon Knight or Templar you would see healing being done every 3 lines if not on every other line. I have a templar that RARELY needs to use a heal because Puncturing Strikes returns SOOOO much health.

They need to remove the cool down on Critial Surge as it clearly isn't working, have BOTH morphs give the healing bonus and add in a max heal amount per trigger instead of hitting x number of people. For example, 50% of Crit to a max heal of 300 every time it triggered that would be a lot more balanced against the healing of a DK using GDB and a Templar using Puncturing Strikes.

The games been out for almost year already. It's time to balance the class line healing abilities.

Erock25

Robbmrp wrote: »

Leovolao wrote: »

Just gonna share what someone else posted in another thread, this is how sorc self heal looks at the moment in PTS.

This clearly proves that the healing abilities on a Sorcerer just suck. There was 8 Crits done before it triggered again. There were muplitle spells being used. How is that a 1 second cool down???? If you took this same read out from a Dragon Knight or Templar you would see healing being done every 3 lines if not on every other line. I have a templar that RARELY needs to use a heal because Puncturing Strikes returns SOOOO much health.

They need to remove the cool down on Critial Surge as it clearly isn't working, have BOTH morphs give the healing bonus and add in a max heal amount per trigger instead of hitting x number of people. For example, 50% of Crit to a max heal of 300 every time it triggered that would be a lot more balanced against the healing of a DK using GDB and a Templar using Puncturing Strikes.

The games been out for almost year already. It's time to balance the class line healing abilities.

There wasn't that much time between surge heals. He is fighting 5 mobs at once.

Derra

Something to share:
Curse is now blockable. Fine by me. Edit: By request of @mike.gaziotisb16_ESO it will still apply against a blocking opponent but the dmg will be mitigated by block.

However it is completely broken with purge:
If the cursed enemy purges and you reapply curse it will run out 50% faster and nothing will happen.
Purge makes you virtually immune to daedric curse dmg apart from its other benefits.
This also works if you purge preemptively and have the 4s 50% duration on hostile effects on you.

Erock25

Derra wrote: »

Something to share:
Curse is now blockable.

With one hand, Mighty ZOS giveth and with the other, they taketh away.

Kilandros

Erock25 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Something to share:
Curse is now blockable.

With one hand, Mighty ZOS giveth and with the other, they taketh away.

Where's the "giveth"?

Black_Wolf88

Kilandros wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Something to share:
Curse is now blockable.

With one hand, Mighty ZOS giveth and with the other, they taketh away.

Where's the "giveth"?

Obviously the "giveth" went to the other classes and the "taketh away" is for us sorcs.

Maulkin

Derra wrote: »

Something to share:
Curse is now blockable. Fine by me.

However it is completely broken with purge:
If the cursed enemy purges and you reapply curse it will run out 50% faster and nothing will happen.
Purge makes you virtually immune to daedric curse dmg apart from its other benefits.
This also works if you purge preemptively and have the 4s 50% duration on hostile effects on you.

To clarify...

When you say it's blockable, you mean if the target blocks it won't apply the curse? Just lost magicka? Or do you mean that the explosion damage is mitigated by holding block?

If it's the latter, it's bad. If it's the former, it's terrible.

The Purge thing must be a bug as they tried to fix the WoE malarky. Report it.

Jesus, this keeps getting from bad to worse for Sorcs

Please tell me this, does the Negate still actually dispel ground effects? And watch how you break it to me cause I might leap from the window.

Kilandros

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Something to share:
Curse is now blockable. Fine by me.

However it is completely broken with purge:
If the cursed enemy purges and you reapply curse it will run out 50% faster and nothing will happen.
Purge makes you virtually immune to daedric curse dmg apart from its other benefits.
This also works if you purge preemptively and have the 4s 50% duration on hostile effects on you.

To clarify...

When you say it's blockable, you mean if the target blocks it won't apply the curse? Just lost magicka? Or do you mean that the explosion damage is mitigated by holding block?

If it's the latter, it's bad. If it's the former, it's terrible.

The Purge thing must be a bug as they tried to fix the WoE malarky. Report it.

Jesus, this keeps getting from bad to worse for Sorcs

Please tell me this, does the Negate still actually dispel ground effects? And watch how you break it to me cause I might leap from the window.

NB is unbelievable right now. Even with buffs, Sorc won't be on that level for the next few years. I suggest you try another class; there's no reason for you to endure this much frustration in a game.

Maulkin

Kilandros wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Something to share:
Curse is now blockable. Fine by me.

However it is completely broken with purge:
If the cursed enemy purges and you reapply curse it will run out 50% faster and nothing will happen.
Purge makes you virtually immune to daedric curse dmg apart from its other benefits.
This also works if you purge preemptively and have the 4s 50% duration on hostile effects on you.

To clarify...

When you say it's blockable, you mean if the target blocks it won't apply the curse? Just lost magicka? Or do you mean that the explosion damage is mitigated by holding block?

If it's the latter, it's bad. If it's the former, it's terrible.

The Purge thing must be a bug as they tried to fix the WoE malarky. Report it.

Jesus, this keeps getting from bad to worse for Sorcs

Please tell me this, does the Negate still actually dispel ground effects? And watch how you break it to me cause I might leap from the window.

NB is unbelievable right now. Even with buffs, Sorc won't be on that level for the next few years. I suggest you try another class; there's no reason for you to endure this much frustration in a game.

Oh, don't you worry I've hedged my bets looong time ago...

V14 Sorc - AR 24
V14 DK - AR 24
V13 NB - AR10

Still my Sorc was my favourite

THEburnb16_ESO

I play a hunter sorc just for fun with: clanbann, encase, bound armaments, surge and bow. I like this build very much at the moment esp. with heavy weapon attack weaving/cancelling. As a second I have a healer staff - yet it´s great to play.

As far as I can see Zeni seemed to try to push only my build as good as they can. Thanks!

Since I can´t play PTS would you mind to tell me please if bound armaments are still toggleable (I hope so) or is it a buff over time now? thank you

Maulkin

Erock25 wrote: »

With one hand, Mighty ZOS giveth and with the other, they taketh away.

More like, with one hand giveth and with the other, they bend you over and go to town.

Snit

THEburnb16_ESO wrote: »

Since I can´t play PTS would you mind to tell me please if bound armaments are still toggleable (I hope so) or is it a buff over time now? thank you

Bound Armaments is still a toggle on PTS.

THEburnb16_ESO

Snit wrote: »

THEburnb16_ESO wrote: »

Since I can´t play PTS would you mind to tell me please if bound armaments are still toggleable (I hope so) or is it a buff over time now? thank you

Bound Armaments is still a toggle on PTS.

great thank you

Robbmrp

Leovolao wrote: »

There wasn't that much time between surge heals. He is fighting 5 mobs at once.

Too bad the log doesn't show time stamps for the actions shown. It would be easy to identify the time length between heals. If the heals given were closer together they would balance the class more. 5 enemies hitting you at once can do a large amount of damage and more than likely the Sorc would die.

DK's can get heal boosts of well over 1000 health at times. A templar can get heals pretty close to that when fighting 5 enemies just with puncturing strikes. Granted they heals are not all at once, but more often than a Sorcerer gets.

Any class is supposed to be able to play independently of other class. The only way to do that is to balance the healing across classes.

It's very frustrating for those that roll a Sorc that end up dying against 3-4 mobs seeing a DK come along and take on 5 plus a boss and survive it all.

sabresandiego_ESO

Hey guys, Sabre Ali here. I got a chance to test 1.6 on the PTS yesterday and want to give you some valuable feedback. As you guys know, I am primarily a PVP player and that is where most of my feedback will be focused. First of all, you guys did a fantastic job and the game play is a hundred times better. Almost everything about the gameplay and game design is better. Things are not balanced perfectly, but that will come with time. You guys did a great job. Some of the best changes Ive seen:

-Impenetrable change: Now makes crit useful in PVP and we are actually seeing people die to burst, instead of endless fights

-Base crit chance and passives: Helps introduce more burst into pvp, making it more exciting

-Healing PVP debuff: Helps alleviate endless PVP fights

-Harder to cap both magicka and stamina regen: This means its harder to make a build that never runs out of resources, and therefore fights are more likely to end. Stalemates are boring, the game is much more fun now

-Light armor has real and significant weaknesses, its squishy. Great job on that!

-Champion system adds a long term feeling of progression, although some constellations seem significantly better than others

-It seems much harder for players to permanently hold down the block button forever and never run out of stamina


More Specific Feedback On Sorcerror:

The sorcerror is a greatly improved class. You guys did a fantastic job.

-Streak is unblockable, making it a very tough choice between it and the projectile absorb morph. Fantastic job

-Curse is greatly improved and provides immense burst damage out of nowhere.

-Crystal shards is greatly improved but the meta has many people running projectile absorb/reflect abilities, making this ability situational. I still use it

-Pets do massive damage and are extremely viable in PVP

-Bound armor: I haven't tested this ability yet but I hate that there is no way to turn off the armor graphic that it puts on you. I like how my armor looks and don't want it hidden by this ability. In addition, I dont think this ability is worth using for most pvp builds.

Mines: These things are SCARY to melee. I play a melee sorc, so I know. Great job with these. There should be better counters to immobilize in the game.

Conjured Ward: Not much changed, still a must use ability for sorcs. I was disappointed that there was no stamina morph for this but thats fine.

Overload: I still dont like that I cant weapon switch when using this, and using a weapon ability pulls me out of the ultimate. Its greatly improved but still clunky

Meteor: Not a sorcerror skill but I have to mention that I LOVE this ability now, it is greatly improved and tons of fun!

Endless Fury: Still the same, great execute, good way to proc frags, not much other use. If you dont have crystal frags on your bar, the ability can be mediocre. Overall its a great skill

Overall sorcerror is a great class now, and still my favorite. Greatly improved over live.

2H Abilities:

Cleave: I dont use this, so cant say much. I dont like it

Crit Charge: The critical rush morph is a no brainer still. Stampede needs to immobilize again because immobilize is far more useful than a snare and stampede needs to be really powerful in order to compete with crit rush, which is an awesome morph.

Reverse Slash: Great ability, range feels a little low. Yes I know its melee , 2h should have more reach than 1h and this ability could use 2 more yards/meters

Momentum: The ability is awesome now, but rally is an obvious pick for morphs. Forward momentum needs to remove all snares and immobilizes.

Uppercut: This ability is significantly improved, its actually a monster and the morph choices are actually quite good. This ability should not be interruptable, its already a melee range and casted, making it difficult to land and extremely clunky. Good players can always bash this, and people still spam crushing shock and poison arrow, making the ability extremely hard to use at high skill level play. Make the ability uninterruptable, only ranged abilities should be interruptable, melee already has to deal with lack of range.

Animation cancelling of heavy attack into uppercut is very awkward and glitchy. Its hard to tell if the heavy attack hit or whats going on.

Overall, 2h is very powerful and competitive now.

Other abilities I dont really use and cant provide valuable feedback for just yet, but I will once I do more testing.

Balance Suggestions:

1. Immobilize needs more counters. Right now purge and dodge roll and rapid maneuvers are all that works, and you can immediately be immobilized again with no immunity. My recommendations are to make shuffle (evasion morph) and forward momentum (momentum morph) remove all immobilizes and snares. Right now both of these morphs are terrible and the other morph is better. I would also suggest that dodge roll provide temporary immunity to immobilize, maybe short 1-2 seconds, just to prevent immobilize spam.

2. You guys did a GREAT job improving the sorcerror class. It is very viable with multiple builds now. Some things multiple people seem to have issues with is surge. I havent experimented much with it yet, but they bring up some valuable points. The cooldown on the self heal is obviously mandatory to prevent insane self healing from streaking through zergs or large groups, its unfortunate more people dont understand this. Perhaps the 1 second cooldown is too long or the heal is not strong enough. I think this ability needs to be analyzed a bit and possibly improved.

3. Sorcerror seems overly reliant on using a restoration staff compared to other classes. Critical Surge and dark exchange are the only class heals, besides the dark magic passive. These heals arent really reliable. Conjured ward is an awesome self shield though and I think a lot of people forget we have this when they talk about sorc lack of healing. The ward is in many ways better than a heal. I think its good for classes to have strengths and weaknesses, so having weak self heals is fine, but this does somewhat pigeonhole us into using a restoration staff on one bar in pvp for the strongest builds.

I will continue to test and provide more unbiased feedback on the PTS. Thanks for reading!

Maulkin

Robbmrp wrote: »

It's very frustrating for those that roll a Sorc that end up dying against 3-4 mobs seeing a DK come along and take on 5 plus a boss and survive it all.

Not just survive it all, but also DPS the living daylights out of them...

XEVENEX

We've far, far more important things to complain about than lol crit surge. If that was your crutch then you were doing it all wrong to begin with.

Health is not scaling up as much as damage and shields are on PTS. Even more reason to have a Hardened Ward based defense. It's cheap, instant, spammable, and gets better the more magicka you stack. You don't need a heal if your health never takes damage.

Just because you can make a stamina Sorc doesnt mean you should. You are not a unique snowflake. There is a superior build for every class in every mmo ever created. Gamers are generally pretty good at min/maxing these things out.
Stamina builds are just not going to be as effective because our class skills are all magicka. It doesnt take a rocket surgeon to figure that out.

Gorthax

cold harsh reality, sorcs suck. 1.6 is the last nail in the coffin for the class. I have tried a few different builds and none of them are worthy. I even tried pet build (optimal pet build) and even that is MEH!

Well every other class gets crazy nice buffs, sorcs only got pet buffs. Oh and a stamina recharge if you are a stamina build sorc. *twirls finger* a dead class is a dead class.

sabresandiego_ESO

Sorc is one of the best classes in the game.

christoph.dessleb17_ESO

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Sorc is one of the best classes in the game.

You're right, sorc is indeed one of the best classes, maybe it's even one of the top 4

Kilandros

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Sorc is one of the best classes in the game.

It's one of the top 4 classes in the game for sure.

Cuyler

christoph.dessleb17_ESO wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Sorc is one of the best classes in the game.

You're right, sorc is indeed one of the best classes, maybe it's even one of the top 4

It's probably 6th best, right below forum warrior and flower picker.

Leovolao

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Sorc is one of the best classes in the game.

I know you, you are a good player and a fantastic sorc. But this is just wrong, I love the class and love playing my sorc, but anything a sorc can do (dps,healing,off-healing,utility,tanking) another class can do it better. Does that sound like one of the best classes in the game?

Robbmrp

Cuyler wrote: »

christoph.dessleb17_ESO wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Sorc is one of the best classes in the game.

You're right, sorc is indeed one of the best classes, maybe it's even one of the top 4

It's probably 6th best, right below forum warrior and flower picker.

Here's the actual rankings.....
1-DK
2-Templar
3-Nightblade
4-Clan Fear
5-Winged Twilight
6-Sorcerer......

Exstazik

ahahah ZOS what you do?! Heavy Attack from DK crit for 12k.....and Matriarch Crit for ~3k(with ward and Daedric Pray)....snipe crit for 15k.Say "good bye" to sorc class

sabresandiego_ESO

Sorc is alot better than most realize. No other class has the kind of mobility and ranged burst damage that sorc has. In addition, sorcs are very efficient. They were slightly weak in 1.5 but in 1.6 are very much up to par from what ive seen. A few abilities may need tweaks here and there, Id like surge to be better, as well as some other less used abilities.

Exstazik

sabresandiego_ESO forgot about surge and use entropy:) ahhh and for PvP in 1.6. you have 1 build: you are looking fro 10 sorc's group and then....
(Daedric curse+Magick bomb)x10 from sneak....and then strike to another zerg.Or die from 15kX2 snipe.

daemonios

Yesterday I tried to copy my build on to the PTS with disgraceful results. So for today I tried this:

- 2 pets on each bar
- shock
- daedric curse
- wall of elements (since I can no longer spam impulse up close and personal)
- mage's wrath (for execute)

I then went to Riften (highest level area besides Craglorn, I'm going to try to morph my skills before going back there). Here are a couple of observations:

- Pets seem to work really well on single targets (VR10) like mammoths and giants. I set my pets loose on the target, then put a curse on them, then put wall of elements on the ground, then start weaving shock and light attacks (to build ultimate and damage); as curse and wall of elements run out, I cast them again. So far, so good.

- This doesn't work so well for multiple targets - you can't taunt each target with one of the pets, and more powerful beasts (mammoths, giants, trolls) are immune to CC like Rune Prison. I have no decent heals unless I go for resto staff, so I really think ZOS should review which creatures should be CC'able. At best, only bosses should be able to resist CC.

- Pets take away 4 slots (2 for each weapon). This is intolerable if pets are to be a viable build.

This is very preliminary and the beasts I'm training on are only VR10. I'll keep testing and go to Craglorn once I have my skills morphed to try harder content.

christoph.dessleb17_ESO

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Sorc is alot better than most realize. No other class has the kind of mobility and ranged burst damage that sorc has.

That's true. Without a doubt and even now in 1.5 great players will always shine with those special abilities (in pvp). But this is on the other hand only a limited view on one pvp-specific, magicka-based and ranged playstyle.

Joy_Division

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Sorc is alot better than most realize. No other class has the kind of mobility and ranged burst damage that sorc has. In addition, sorcs are very efficient. They were slightly weak in 1.5 but in 1.6 are very much up to par from what ive seen. A few abilities may need tweaks here and there, Id like surge to be better, as well as some other less used abilities.

As limiting as sorcs were, they were always good at burst damage and mobility. I fail to see how pigeonholing a class is desirable and much of the ESO's end-game content is dependent on other aspects where sorcs have difficulty competing. Sure, you can streak away from the big bad DK, but see how streak helps you vs the Mantikora in Sanctum...