Sorc 1.6 Discussion

ItsRejectz

Make your self heard here people, hopefully they will acknowledge the sorcerer in the live stream in just over an hour

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/148922/

Grao

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Are you people playing the PTS or just crying due to changes? I don't mean to be rude, but sorcs are one of the strongest classes right now on the PTS, particularly in PVP. All classes are quite good actually.

I have not done any PVE testing, and I do agree that surge needs improvement. I prefer using momentum or entropy over surge, any day.

The majority of strong builds I have seen on PTS are completely min maxed. They put everything into magicka and nothing else as far as stats go. The defense is shield stacking, hardened ward, and maybe harness magicka or healing ward. Some sorcerrors throw on immovable too, eliminating the weakness of the light armor. This type of build is incredibly powerful and can even be adapted for pets.

I run a hybrid mag/stam sorcerror build. There arent many who run this type of build, because it is extremely difficult to build correctly so that you can compete with pure builds. Nevertheless I have found ways to make this hybrid extremely competitive as well. Sorcs are in a great spot. We just need some bug fixes and some improvements to weak abilities like surge, bound armor, etc...

We are playing the PTS and even doing Trials. As I said, I think Sorcerers are good, but lacking single target DPS a little. Improving our Execution that is considerably weaker then everyone else and maybe adding a little more power to the pets, maybe some spell power scaling (now they scale only of magicka) would be definitely helpful.

XEVENEX

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

heh, smart guy. I am also using 5 Light Armor Pieces and 2 Heavy Armor Pieces for "Anti-Squishness" and the extra stats gained from the Undaunted Passive and Health from the Heavy Armor Passives.

The 5 set still gives us the bonus.

5/5 is the minimum to get the bonus yes, but is it not true that 7/7 will provide a higher bonus? I can't look at the moment.

If that's true, 2 heavy is not doing anything for you resistance wise. Undaunted passive is up 1%, not worth it. Health is slightly higher, still not worth it.

Septimus_Magna

XEVENEX wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

heh, smart guy. I am also using 5 Light Armor Pieces and 2 Heavy Armor Pieces for "Anti-Squishness" and the extra stats gained from the Undaunted Passive and Health from the Heavy Armor Passives.

The 5 set still gives us the bonus.

5/5 is the minimum to get the bonus yes, but is it not true that 7/7 will provide a higher bonus? I can't look at the moment.

If that's true, 2 heavy is not doing anything for you resistance wise. Undaunted passive is up 1%, not worth it. Health is slightly higher, still not worth it.

Im being quoted on something I didnt say, I would use increase armor enchants on jewelry and keep the good magicka passives from the LA passives.

Dazin93

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Are you people playing the PTS or just crying due to changes? I don't mean to be rude, but sorcs are one of the strongest classes right now on the PTS, particularly in PVP. All classes are quite good actually.

I have not done any PVE testing, and I do agree that surge needs improvement. I prefer using momentum or entropy over surge, any day.

The majority of strong builds I have seen on PTS are completely min maxed. They put everything into magicka and nothing else as far as stats go. The defense is shield stacking, hardened ward, and maybe harness magicka or healing ward. Some sorcerrors throw on immovable too, eliminating the weakness of the light armor. This type of build is incredibly powerful and can even be adapted for pets.

I run a hybrid mag/stam sorcerror build. There arent many who run this type of build, because it is extremely difficult to build correctly so that you can compete with pure builds. Nevertheless I have found ways to make this hybrid extremely competitive as well. Sorcs are in a great spot. We just need some bug fixes and some improvements to weak abilities like surge, bound armor, etc...

An opinion, but hardly fact. If you want to talk facts lets talk about the fact that you have to stack shields/run resto staff to have a viable sorc build. It's only because shield stacking is OP right now that the build works, not from any class specific skills.

You keep talking about how great sorcs are so why don't you back it up with facts. Provide a list of the class specific skills that a sorc has that are better and superior to other classes. It shouldn't take very long....and then maybe you will begin to understand how disadvantaged sorcs really are.

Messy1

The facts is, sorcerers need a little help. If self heals are not addressed then they need to gain a serious advantage in the magic categories.

XEVENEX

Dazin93 wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Are you people playing the PTS or just crying due to changes? I don't mean to be rude, but sorcs are one of the strongest classes right now on the PTS, particularly in PVP. All classes are quite good actually.

I have not done any PVE testing, and I do agree that surge needs improvement. I prefer using momentum or entropy over surge, any day.

The majority of strong builds I have seen on PTS are completely min maxed. They put everything into magicka and nothing else as far as stats go. The defense is shield stacking, hardened ward, and maybe harness magicka or healing ward. Some sorcerrors throw on immovable too, eliminating the weakness of the light armor. This type of build is incredibly powerful and can even be adapted for pets.

I run a hybrid mag/stam sorcerror build. There arent many who run this type of build, because it is extremely difficult to build correctly so that you can compete with pure builds. Nevertheless I have found ways to make this hybrid extremely competitive as well. Sorcs are in a great spot. We just need some bug fixes and some improvements to weak abilities like surge, bound armor, etc...

An opinion, but hardly fact. If you want to talk facts lets talk about the fact that you have to stack shields/run resto staff to have a viable sorc build. It's only because shield stacking is OP right now that the build works, not from any class specific skills.

You keep talking about how great sorcs are so why don't you back it up with facts. Provide a list of the class specific skills that a sorc has that are better and superior to other classes. It shouldn't take very long....and then maybe you will begin to understand how disadvantaged sorcs really are.

First let me say that I don't think Sorc is perfect. A few specific builds appear to be quite strong.

Now then, you do NOT have to run Restoration Staff OR stack shields. Hardened Ward is far stronger than Healing Ward. The only time you should EVER cast Healing Ward is behind Hardened Ward. We have an out of combat heal, and if we take health damage in combat we were probably dead anyway.

1) Streak is still fantastic.
2) Crystal Fragments got buffed. It's a high damage, long range CC. Arguably one of the best CC's in the game.
3) Hardened Ward. I have to say this until I'm blue in the face apparently. Use it. Spam it. Love it.
4) Arguably the strongest ranged class. This comes with a whole list of advantages. One of the main ones is that we generate ultimate much faster overall than melee classes.

I could go on, but this alone is plenty to remain competitive.

Grao

XEVENEX wrote: »

1) Streak is still fantastic.
2) Crystal Fragments got buffed. It's a high damage, long range CC. Arguably one of the best CC's in the game.
3) Hardened Ward. I have to say this until I'm blue in the face apparently. Use it. Spam it. Love it.
4) Arguably the strongest ranged class. This comes with a whole list of advantages. One of the main ones is that we generate ultimate much faster overall than melee classes.

I could go on, but this alone is plenty to remain competitive.

1) I agree but mainly, if not only, for PvP.
2) Again, PvP as for CC. The damage on it finally makes the ability ok to have on your bar for procs though.
3)Agree, though I use Empowered Ward for my pet's sake.
4)No... Just no, I am sorry. Our main damage spell is still Crushing Shock, a spell available to everyone. Pets do great damage, but because you can't affect their attack speed, the final DPS is weak. And our execution is a joke when compared to the other classes executions.

XEVENEX

Grao wrote: »

Empowered Ward for my pet's sake.

Well there's your problem!

Derra

Pets do you no good in pvp currently. The twilight is 1 shotted by any decent player and the familar is - well - the only thing worth using about it is the explode (that one does work great when not spammed but it requires far more work and awareness than any other skill).
I would not use CS with the current skill situation in pvp. Curse (even with it being blockable and negatable with purge) is far better. The new destructive touch outshines it too imho.

Grao

XEVENEX wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Empowered Ward for my pet's sake.

Well there's your problem!

Aww, I am only using it on the PTS ;p We were told pets would be powerful DPS.

Grao

Derra wrote: »

Pets do you no good in pvp currently. The twilight is 1 shotted by any decent player and the familar is - well - the only thing worth using about it is the explode (that one does work great when not spammed but it requires far more work and awareness than any other skill).
I would not use CS with the current skill situation in pvp. Curse (even with it being blockable and negatable with purge) is far better. The new destructive touch outshines it too imho.

I haven't tested the pets in PvP on the pts. I am sure it won't work well, so I will likely stick to my stamina sorcerer build and surprise silly vampires by turning into a big werewolf.

XEVENEX

Grao wrote: »

Aww, I am only using it on the PTS ;p We were told pets would be powerful DPS.

And I'm a French Model.

Derra

Grao wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Pets do you no good in pvp currently. The twilight is 1 shotted by any decent player and the familar is - well - the only thing worth using about it is the explode (that one does work great when not spammed but it requires far more work and awareness than any other skill).
I would not use CS with the current skill situation in pvp. Curse (even with it being blockable and negatable with purge) is far better. The new destructive touch outshines it too imho.

I haven't tested the pets in PvP on the pts. I am sure it won't work well, so I will likely stick to my stamina sorcerer build and surprise silly vampires by turning into a big werewolf.

I have a decent heavy armor WW build on live. It is the most fun i ever got out of my sorc. Hilarious.

angelyn

Good News- Just watched ESO live and they mentioned that they are aware of all the sorcerer feedback and may be including some things in next patch. I think they are considering some changes to crit surge as well.

Thank you @ZOS_GinaBruno for taking the feedback left by many players into consideration.

Pyatra

Derra wrote: »

Pets do you no good in pvp currently. The twilight is 1 shotted by any decent player and the familar is - well - the only thing worth using about it is the explode (that one does work great when not spammed but it requires far more work and awareness than any other skill).
I would not use CS with the current skill situation in pvp. Curse (even with it being blockable and negatable with purge) is far better. The new destructive touch outshines it too imho.

Heh, new fire reach destructive touch is the best "Wall Knocker" in the game right now. Killed 9 people yesterday by knocking them off the top inner wall 3 stories to their doom. V.Curse and one 38ft range knockback later and there's a greasy spot on the bottom floor inside the keep. V.Curse pops right about impact.

I have mixed feelings about C.Surge, but bursty stamina with no DoTs really shines with it, but may need work.

Bound armor.... NOPE! She needs some love. Those minor buffs to both defenses are not worth 2 skill slots, but she looks awesome now.

Weakening prison is my anti-ganker suprise... 2 minute long booby trap to buy you 2-3 seconds when hit with snipes or surprise attacks. Other morph is just kind of PvE only while the other booby trap one is good for both PvE and PvP.

Overload is rocking the DPS

Pets are very viable now in PvE with the right bar setup.

Passive Dark Magic means everyone should hundle up on me for an additional 3% to crit, is okay.

Daedric Mines... never was of fan of this so one, so meh.

Fruity_Ninja

angelyn wrote: »

Good News- Just watched ESO live and they mentioned that they are aware of all the sorcerer feedback and may be including some things in next patch. I think they are considering some changes to crit surge as well.

Thank you @ZOS_GinaBruno for taking the feedback left by many players into consideration.

Awesome I haven't watched that yet, but was about to ask the question. Were any specifics mentioned?

ToRelax

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

angelyn wrote: »

Good News- Just watched ESO live and they mentioned that they are aware of all the sorcerer feedback and may be including some things in next patch. I think they are considering some changes to crit surge as well.

Thank you @ZOS_GinaBruno for taking the feedback left by many players into consideration.

Awesome I haven't watched that yet, but was about to ask the question. Were any specifics mentioned?

http://www.twitch.tv/zenimaxonlinestudios/v/3739342

1:29.36
Seems they reduced the cooldown.
Not really the fix I was looking for since it wont work with a destro build but it is better than what we have now. I hope it's just easy to implement and the ability will be made viable for me again...

Fruity_Ninja

ToRelax wrote: »

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

angelyn wrote: »

Good News- Just watched ESO live and they mentioned that they are aware of all the sorcerer feedback and may be including some things in next patch. I think they are considering some changes to crit surge as well.

Thank you @ZOS_GinaBruno for taking the feedback left by many players into consideration.

Awesome I haven't watched that yet, but was about to ask the question. Were any specifics mentioned?

http://www.twitch.tv/zenimaxonlinestudios/v/3739342

1:29.36
Seems they reduced the cooldown.
Not really the fix I was looking for since it wont work with a destro build but it is better than what we have now. I hope it's just easy to implement and the ability will be made viable for me again...

Interesting..

Guess we'll have to wait and see what sort of changes happen next week on the updated test server.

Snit

How boring are PvE Sorcs going to be? Look at a likely build for optimized DPS:

1) Force Shock (primary DPS skill)
2) Crystal Shard (cast when it procs)
3) Inner Light (toggle)
4) Bound Aegis (toggle)
5) Matriarch Pet (toggle)

6) Structured Entropy (maintain this for the spellpower buff)
7) Mages' Wrath (in execute range, you switch to this bar and spam this)
8) That first toggle
9) That second toggle
10) That last toggle

That's two active skills per bar. You can make a good argument for adding another pet, too, reducing you to one active skill per bar.

Spellcasters rely too heavily on toggled buffs. This reduces build variety and complexity of play.

LaerothKeykalyn

cool !!!!!

indigoblades

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

indigoblades wrote: »

the only good sorc build i have made is a sorc pve stam build which mainly uses lightning form, brawler, rally, degeneration and hardened ward. Stam reduction jewerly too. i tried in pvp and it seemed the same.

tommorow i ll respect attributes for a resto/destro with entropy/high magika build.

I like my sorc but not sure its gonna work in pvp.

lol. I was thinking the opposite, that I was going to struggle more in PVE vs. PVP.

With that PVE build where is your main healing coming from, rally + hardened ward? Is it very effective?

Lately i have been focusing on what works for pvp but I did a PVE group vet dungeon with that build (think i had resto not Duel weld on other bar) and i thought it was very effective. For soloing mobs or single targets its very effective

Catch me in the morning sometime and we can go to PTS and work on our PVP and PVE builds. I dont have Wykkyd on PTS so i cant just swap builds like can on LIVE but we can see what works.

We need to try super high magicka since theres no soft caps.

indigoblades

Snit wrote: »

How boring are PvE Sorcs going to be? Look at a likely build for optimized DPS:

1) Force Shock (primary DPS skill)
2) Crystal Shard (cast when it procs)
3) Inner Light (toggle)
4) Bound Aegis (toggle)
5) Matriarch Pet (toggle)

6) Structured Entropy (maintain this for the spellpower buff)
7) Mages' Wrath (in execute range, you switch to this bar and spam this)
8) That first toggle
9) That second toggle
10) That last toggle

That's two active skills per bar. You can make a good argument for adding another pet, too, reducing you to one active skill per bar.

Spellcasters rely too heavily on toggled buffs. This reduces build variety and complexity of play.

I like that build for DPS, but i wouldnt leave town without a great healer.

Khivas_Carrick

Elfdominion4 wrote: »

cool !!!!!

Wtf are you wearing

Nightreaver

The armor is the graphic you attain with Bound Armaments, the Stamina version morph of Bound armor. The Magicka version morph (Bound Aegis) looks very similar but is less spikey and has a single horn in the center rather than one on either side.

Khivas_Carrick

Dude that looks sick.

xherics

Check the DPS on the picture, as ZOS said, they made everything 10 times more... So, on the picture we see 300 DPS if we count it on the LIVE server.. DKs, NBs are doing 1500 and more...

Gandogal

xherics wrote: »

Check the DPS on the picture, as ZOS said, they made everything 10 times more... So, on the picture we see 300 DPS if we count it on the LIVE server.. DKs, NBs are doing 1500 and more...

Not only we dont know what hes been doing, this also is an absurd oversimplification.

Gandogal

So whats good dps numbers in 1.6 anyways?

Jar_Ek

Critical surge, 1 second a joke. RNG healing on a 1second CD. Great, really well thought out!