Suggestion: Dark Exchange

Kilandros

Make it instant cast. The skill is actually quite similar to Dragon's Blood: It increases two stat recoveries at the expense of a 3rd. Making this skill instant cast (go ahead and balance the conversion rate accordingly) would give it tremendous potential.

Base Form: sacrifice X% of Stamina and gain X% Health and Magicka.

Morph 1: Improve conversion rate.

Morph 2: improve conversion rate. Now sacrifice X% of Magicka and gain X% of Health and Stamina.

The skill could be terrific, but is hindered by a long cast time. As I said, tweak the conversion rate to achieve balance.

Emma_Overload

Agreed. If they're going to screw up critical surge for magicka builds, we need something to replace it that works FAST.

LtCrunch

No. If they start making abilities that mirror each other this closely it starts to become a one class game with cosmetic differences. That may be perfect balance but it also makes it pointless to have multiple classes.

Sharee

Bolt escape got nerfed because sorcerers were uncatchable. Give them instant mana from DE and they're back to the old ways.

Flaminir

Sharee wrote: »

Bolt escape got nerfed because sorcerers were uncatchable. Give them instant mana from DE and they're back to the old ways.

Extra magicka is fairly irrelevant tbh... a well specced sorc has plenty of that, and you can use spell symmetry if you need instant magicka.

So we already have instant magicka and aren't even close to OP.

This is ALL about the health...

Emma_Overload

LOL, I get the feeling DKs are coming out of the woodwork every time Sorcs call for a much needed fix. What are you guys scared of?

TheShadowScout

One possible solution was to keep DE at its current cast rate, but include some sort of damage protection while it channels, since right now, all too often trying to use it as mid-combat emergency heal will fail as you are unable to protect yourself while channeling it, and thus the incoming new damage often outstrips the DEs healing effect.
Of course, that can be helped with pairing it with BE - bolt away, DE your health back up, keep fighting.
Also, my sorc usually slots entropy/degeneration for use in combat to help with the main issue...

In the end, it truly is a balance issue. Yeah, DKs are pretty good right now, yeah, socrs have a bit of a hard time... (still had it easier with my sorc then my stamine melee nightblade I must admiot though). We'll see how the game changes in the near future...

SFBryan18

Or nerf Dragons blood to have a four second spam penalty like bolt escape.

Dracane

They definately have to do something with Dark Exchange. The sacrifise of Stamina is very deadly for a mage, because we already have too few stamina and Dark exchange is just too dangerous in a real battle, where you can't hide in a keep to regenerate.

Dracane

I think, dark exchange should simply cast nothing. But you can't interrupt the cast whenever you want it and the regeneration takes longer.

bosmern_ESO

I personally don't have a problem with the cast time (I kinda like how it looks though it can totally screw me over).

I think the morphs for it are just pointless, one allows you to move a staggering half meter, I don't even see a point in this morph. Even if you could move normal walk speed it would still be pointless. The only thing I see that it could ever be used for is in PvE and if you are at the edge of a bosses red AoE, and chances are you still are going to get hit.

The other morph makes it so it drains 8 less stamina. Sure this has a lot more use than the one that lets you move, It really only supports pure magic builds, the only stamina build that would use Dark exchange in the first place is to only get health back.

I really like the skill, but the morphs just make it not worth it. I really hope it changes in 1.6.

Kilandros

Brandalf wrote: »

No. If they start making abilities that mirror each other this closely it starts to become a one class game with cosmetic differences. That may be perfect balance but it also makes it pointless to have multiple classes.

To be fair, this is just one skill we're talking about. From a balance perspective, it's actually not a bad idea to have the one overlapping ability between the classes be the self heal. Having a decent self heal is, quite frankly, invaluable.

killedbyping

They are NOT going to screw Critical surge. ZOS actualy confirmed on ESO LIVE, that one of the morphs will give spell damage.

Im fine with Dark exchange as it is. Its quite fast transfer.

Kilandros

killedbyping wrote: »

They are NOT going to screw Critical surge. ZOS actualy confirmed on ESO LIVE, that one of the morphs will give spell damage.

Im fine with Dark exchange as it is. Its quite fast transfer.

To be fair, very few Sorcerers use DE. If you look at the popular builds, DE is on none of them.

Gyudan

TheShadowScout wrote: »

One possible solution was to keep DE at its current cast rate, but include some sort of damage protection while it channels, since right now, all too often trying to use it as mid-combat emergency heal will fail as you are unable to protect yourself while channeling it, and thus the incoming new damage often outstrips the DEs healing effect

That's funny because that's how the skill worked at the beginning.
One morph used to give increased armor and spell resistance while channeling and it was changed to allow movement instead. I liked the old version better too.

Kilandros

Gyudan wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

One possible solution was to keep DE at its current cast rate, but include some sort of damage protection while it channels, since right now, all too often trying to use it as mid-combat emergency heal will fail as you are unable to protect yourself while channeling it, and thus the incoming new damage often outstrips the DEs healing effect

That's funny because that's how the skill worked at the beginning.
One morph used to give increased armor and spell resistance while channeling and it was changed to allow movement instead. I liked the old version better too.

Yeah, and the old version would arguably be better once they remove softcaps.

Still, I think keeping it as a channeled skill is a bad idea. They can greatly reduce the conversion rate, but it would find a way into different builds if instant. The thing keeping it out of builds now is the channel--that's time spent when you're character could be doing something else.

ToRelax

killedbyping wrote: »

They are NOT going to screw Critical surge. ZOS actualy confirmed on ESO LIVE, that one of the morphs will give spell damage.

Im fine with Dark exchange as it is. Its quite fast transfer.

The point is that the current Critical Surge that synergizes with staff skills, will be split up in two different morphs, one having the heal, the other one the spell damage.
Also, don't forget how strong the current weapon damage of critical surge actually is, there is no other buff close to it. In 1.6 though, it will probably just be a "major buff", putting it on the same level as other buffs.

Nightreaver

killedbyping wrote: »

They are NOT going to screw Critical surge. ZOS actualy confirmed on ESO LIVE, that one of the morphs will give spell damage.

Surge
In the current proposed form Stamina builds get both damage + Healing whereas Magicka builds must choose between damage or Healing. Hence the nerf to Magicka builds.

Recently another option has been mentioned as a possible change to Surge where the base Surge ability would provide Healing and then one morph add Weapon damage while the other adds Spell damage. This would be the best solution as well as the fairest to both builds and something I've been hoping for ever since they first mentioned the change to Staves.

Dark Exchange
I like the idea of one morph draining Stamina to provide Magicka + Health while the 2nd morph drains Magicka to provide Stamina + Health.

My preference though would be that rather than making it an instant cast (like DK) make it a short duration buff rather than having to channel it.

LtCrunch

Kilandros wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

No. If they start making abilities that mirror each other this closely it starts to become a one class game with cosmetic differences. That may be perfect balance but it also makes it pointless to have multiple classes.

To be fair, this is just one skill we're talking about. From a balance perspective, it's actually not a bad idea to have the one overlapping ability between the classes be the self heal. Having a decent self heal is, quite frankly, invaluable.

It sets a dangerous precedent. Just one skill eventually turns into just 3 skills, just a skill line, and so forth. I have no problem with it being tweaked but not to mimic Dragon blood so closely.

Kilandros

Brandalf wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

No. If they start making abilities that mirror each other this closely it starts to become a one class game with cosmetic differences. That may be perfect balance but it also makes it pointless to have multiple classes.

To be fair, this is just one skill we're talking about. From a balance perspective, it's actually not a bad idea to have the one overlapping ability between the classes be the self heal. Having a decent self heal is, quite frankly, invaluable.

It sets a dangerous precedent. Just one skill eventually turns into just 3 skills, just a skill line, and so forth. I have no problem with it being tweaked but not to mimic Dragon blood so closely.

I don't think it mimics it per se. Dragon's Blood is instant cast % heal plus regeneration. DR would be instant cast base heal + Magicka or Stamina at the expense of Magicka or Stamina.

I think that's pretty distinct.