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REFLECTIVE SCALES NEEDS NERF
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Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS
Cripple - Why is this being reflected its a DOT. It most certainly is not a projectile.
Funnel Health - "Funnels Health FROM the Target" Doesnt shoot anything at it, takes health FROM why is this being reflected?
Just because? Its dk skill so this is fine?
IF i say..IF you look at the screen when you cast a projectile leaves fromy you and goes to the target. Something that does not happen with sorcs curse and thunder.
l2p,cry less and you might avoid your destiny: constantly-buffed-crying-Nightblades and all classes nubsniping allover
how is it learn to play when ZoS has everything tagged as projectile? Also with your logic if it leaves the fingertips (or hands) then it deserves to get reflected.....
Crushing shock.....NOT projectile...
Meteor.....NOT projectile
Neither of those leave your finger tips (or hands) but DK AND sword and board can reflect those. So go ahead, throw at your classic DK "L2P" statements lol Will be a glorious day when you punks cant block cast and be gods all while reflecting everything in the game. Your time is up :P Sorry bout your bad luck lol everyone knew it was coming. You guys had a good run huh4 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭In such situation when DK want/need to heal himself it will heal himself EVERY time if it have resources, and not cc'ed, no matter hows the life of surrounding allies, but put templar tank in exactly the same situation and EVERY heal will go to other players if those players have less hp than tanking templar. Only exception is if there is no ally nearby to steal the heal, but if you are alone fighting zerg you are to die anyway, as no single player should be able to outlive zerg. How hard is to understand the problem that Templar don't have reliable self-heal in pvp?
What other people? We are talking about diving into the zerg...Ok lets say it does miss you and there are strangely 3 other people there, pop it again and done. It doesn't have a DR like GDB does where you have to wait till execute levels of hp to use it efficiently.Very easy. Reflective Scales is just a bit more expensive (~15%) than Blazing Shield, always last for 4 seconds and for that duration it will reflect EVERY projectile no matter how hard or frequent projectile hits it. On other side, Blazing Shield is depletable and it will hold the incoming damage for 30% of your hp. That would be 1200-1300 of incoming damage for top geared/buffed templars with 4k hp, which means if one arrow hits you for 1700 damage, blazing shield would prevent 1200 and 500 would actually damage you, and shield is down. To put that into actual scene...
No it wont. It's getting nerfed to 4 projectiles. Did you really just do all that math and not know it's getting nerfed?... Not that it matters but you left out the calculations for the way the shield increases based on nearby players and the fact that you can rely on the shield entirely for significant damage rather than having to combine it with other damage. DK does damage to unknown ranged player but they do eventually quit when they are about to die, the ones who may die are the ones in melee range and the dk has to use damagers and RS for that along with inefficient levels of GDB."You don't even have to charge in to do class damage, we actually do."
I stated in previous post that we are discussing about melee templar tank, as I'm not interested in range tank at all, so, yes I do have to charge in order to use my melee damager, and when I do it I'm actually stunning myself for 1+ second due to GCD, as mentioned in previous post.
Yeah the difference here is you MAY charge in to use melee class damagers or you may not and use ranged class damagers. If you are a DK there is no choice, it's either melee and class damagers or ranged and no class damagers. So yeah we actually need something to survive to use our class damagers.What other people? We are talking about diving into the zerg...Ok lets say it does miss you and there are strangely 3 other people there, pop it again and done. It doesn't have a DR like GDB does where you have to wait till execute levels of hp to use it efficiently.
Nop, you are talking about diving solo into zerg and I realized that in your latest post, so not sure what's the point of this discussion if you are here to defend such state of play. No lone player should be able to fight zerg and live to talk about it after, unless he ran away on time or its emperor facing noobs. I'm talking about normal pvp where similar sized groups would face each other. You are talking about "execute levels of hp to use it efficiently" and I'm talking on getting at least one heal I cast for myself and not for all to go to some random players nearby when I'm at ~5% hp.No it wont. It's getting nerfed to 4 projectiles. Did you really just do all that math and not know it's getting nerfed?... Not that it matters but you left out the calculations for the way the shield increases based on nearby players and the fact that you can rely on the shield entirely for significant damage rather than having to combine it with other damage. DK does damage to unknown ranged player but they do eventually quit when they are about to die, the ones who may die are the ones in melee range and the dk has to use damagers and RS for that along with inefficient levels of GDB.
Nop, I did math before official info about nerf in 1.6 but it doesn't matter for discussion anyway as we are talking about current state of game and not what could be in 1.6 or later.
Nop, I did not left out shield strength increase with nearby player as we are talking about getting hammered by ranged players which means they would be out of Blazing Shield range to take any damage from it. Only thing I forgot to note is usage of base magicka cost for abilities and not actual at v14, since I did not have access to game at the moment to check, but that changes nothing in what I'm trying to explain. Regarding your statement how ranged players would eventually quit hitting you before they would kill themselves with RS, please don't mix theorycraft with what random player might do or not do in real situation. Using same logic, what's stopping players to move away from Blazing Shield? They can move away from its radius and keep shooting at me, while for RS they need to stop shooting at all, because RS don't have radius and complies only to range of attacking ability, right? Btw, Etaniel posted funny video above showing opposite of what you are saying.Yeah the difference here is you MAY charge in to use melee class damagers or you may not and use ranged class damagers. If you are a DK there is no choice, it's either melee and class damagers or ranged and no class damagers. So yeah we actually need something to survive to use our class damagers.
As I already stated twice, we are talking about melee tank archetype who would be in first line of fight. What you are saying would be strong point in case DK don't have any option in game for ranged attacks while Templar do, but that is not the case as you can also combine class and weapon skills like most people do (including Templar ofc). You last sentence... don't we all need to be alive in order to do any kind of damage, no matter from what skill tree damaging ability comes from?
I find it rather funny that alot of the DK's on here complain about range this and range that. I am starting to wonder if these are all the scrubs coming out because the really good DK's I have seen in pvp either have a bow ready for field fights and only switch to resto heals while inside keep fights are going on.
So many other DKs seem to be countering their ONLY weakness by using a bow..... Wonder why these ones on here complaining about range blah blah dont do this. Dont like a bow? Guess what, dont counter your weakness. Just like everyone tells sorcs "grab a S&B to counter reflect." I dont like melee and wont break my anti-melee feelings just to counter one move.
Looks like we have stuff in common then (all those "we dont have range we cant use range" DKs).3 -
Sublime✭✭✭✭The only thing this game really needs is a dedicated group of people that tries to explain the game to the community. And please somebody who has an idea of balancing competitive games.Keepers of Cyrodiil | Aether | The Achievement Seekers
For those who want to improve their behaviour:
gdcvault.com/play/1017940/The-Science-Behind_shaping-Player
PvP Class Balance Analysis as of 2.0.7 Outdated
[Stamina] PvP Class Balance Analysis as of 2.0.7 Outdated
"Again, we’re not really a traditional MMO, we are much more of a hybrid, kind of like an ‘online RPG’." - Matt Firor2 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭ZOS
Will be a glorious day when you punks cant block cast and be gods all while reflecting everything in the game. Your time is up :P Sorry bout your bad luck lol everyone knew it was coming. You guys had a good run huh
You said Punks?
Im only seeing one here in this post acting like this you described, you.
If youre unciviled or somewhat a caveman u better conversate with trees or rocks. I aint gonna do you the favor kid.0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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And yet I somehow manage just fine on my nightblade without reflective scales. Go figure. I guess it can be done without an easy mode, faceroll, i win button.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
So let me make sure I get this. DKs can only do close range damage, therefore they get an ability that makes them completely immune to all projectiles, because they for some reason shouldn't be required to use weapon abilities.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
But those are the same challenges every other class has.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I'm sure you're a great player and you will adapt. This isn't the end of the world like everyone is making it seem. That is all I am saying. There are other options.
I don't know if I'm a good player or not, but I will adapt. It's not "the end" for DK's. My concern is over how this particular change will change the landscape of pvp (pew pew stand offs) and how this further narrows down DKs into fewer and fewer builds. If we choose range we lose our class damagers, if we choose melee we suffer focus fire without executes or escapes.
Even those fighting for an RS nerf think the 4 hits is bogus. If they need to nerf it they need to do it right and this isn't it.
You can cast ranged class damagers at melee range, however you cannot cast melee class damagers at range. It only works one way.
If DKs have an unmitigated ability to completely reflect all projects back at the caster shouldn't the other classes all have a way to be immune to talons, lava whip, searing strike, fiery breath, stone fist, etc.? I mean it's fair right? We should be able to reflect all the nasty things you throw on us when you perma root us in place and hit us with all of your high damaging abilities. The fact that those that play your class still don't see this side to it is mind boggling given how well reported it is.
Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.
Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.
If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.
When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.:trollin:0 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You could explain them how to drain enemy resources, conter reflect etc., how to use an enemy mistake for ur advantage, and everything else u learn by doing, but this won't change anything.
If experienced players fight other experienced players it's kinda balanced, everyone understand their own class and are able to conter the enemy.
But newbies will always flame if they die, that's normal and u can't do anything against that.
I duel the most time, fought every kind of build/class combination and at least in 1v1 scales is not op or something.
Problems against DKs in grps?
Don't stand like a *** with 20ppl in a 5m radius around him. He gains more ultimate, so he can use his ultimate faster and gain more resources back, gg.
U see the flappy flappy thing? Don't use range or try your own reflect.
Ofc reflect is strong in grps but reducing to 4 possible reflected skills is not that nice in grps and is a huge nerf if you use that mostly.
Anyway, you will find new ways and reflect won't be the only changed skill.
Who knows about blazing Shield, fear, etc.?
R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -2 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
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Nop, you are talking about diving solo into zerg and I realized that in your latest post, so not sure what's the point of this discussion if you are here to defend such state of play. No lone player should be able to fight zerg and live to talk about it after, unless he ran away on time or its emperor facing noobs. I'm talking about normal pvp where similar sized groups would face each other. You are talking about "execute levels of hp to use it efficiently" and I'm talking on getting at least one heal I cast for myself and not for all to go to some random players nearby when I'm at ~5% hp.
If it's a group of bads then it should be possible. That is essentially what every 1vX is. Seen any good 1vX's against No Mercy? Of course not, because they are good. Yeah we are talking about pushing into a group solo because we have to if we want to use our class damagers...because all our class damagers are melee. Yeah if you are standing beside your buddies they might take your heal, so sorry about that. However we are talking about DKs in the middle of the zerg because they have to be there if they want to use class damagers. This thread has nothing to do with your woes as a templar beside the rest of the group.
The current state of the game is that it is being nerfed. Why put up a page of math if it doesn't even matter for discussion. Have you not realized the discussion has changed since the MOD announced the upcoming nerf? Your math also left out quite a bit of important information.Nop, I did math before official info about nerf in 1.6 but it doesn't matter for discussion anyway as we are talking about current state of game and not what could be in 1.6 or later.Nop, I did not left out shield strength increase with nearby player as we are talking about getting hammered by ranged players which means they would be out of Blazing Shield range to take any damage from it. Only thing I forgot to note is usage of base magicka cost for abilities and not actual at v14, since I did not have access to game at the moment to check, but that changes nothing in what I'm trying to explain. Regarding your statement how ranged players would eventually quit hitting you before they would kill themselves with RS, please don't mix theorycraft with what random player might do or not do in real situation. Using same logic, what's stopping players to move away from Blazing Shield? They can move away from its radius and keep shooting at me, while for RS they need to stop shooting at all, because RS don't have radius and complies only to range of attacking ability, right? Btw, Etaniel posted funny video above showing opposite of what you are saying.
I am assuming that if you are going to go zerg diving you will use a gap closer like any reasonable person would which would mean you are in melee range. What Templar in their right mind would literally walk into the zerg spamming blazing shield to cover themselves from ranged attacks until they reached their target. That is a poor decision, and I have no sympathy for you if you play like that.
No we are talking about the FACT that DK has no choice but to enter the fray to use class damagers whereas you don't have to. Let me hear your Temp complaints about pushing the zerg when you actually have to push into the zerg to use class damagers.As I already stated twice, we are talking about melee tank archetype who would be in first line of fight, and also you don't need to charge, you can use Fiery Grip. What you are saying would be strong point in case DK don't have any option in game for ranged attacks while Templar do, but that is not the case as you can also combine class and weapon skills like most people do (including Templar ofc). You last sentence... don't we all need to be alive in order to do any kind of damage, no matter from what skill tree damaging ability comes from?
Fiery grip is broken due to exploiters not to mention blockable, and not workable with CC immunity. Please try out fiery grip and let me know how that turns out. Even if it works they will roll, roll then gone and you can't pull them back.
Yes we all have to be alive to do damage, what is your point?Edited by Armitas on 10 December 2014 20:58Retired.
Nord mDK3 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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I love that suggestion, but only because it would be way worse for them like that.Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »
well - i like your intention, but you conclusions is completly loopsided.
you start your argumentation with complaining to not hurt builds with medium or more so heavy armor but end your "rant" with suggesting to copy the BE nerf wich would compleatly *** up heavy and medium armor builds while as we can see with BE - light armor builds are hardly touched.
that leaves a grain of salt to that entire vid as it clearly shows that you want your style of play not touched at all, while you dont care the slightest of what is hapening to the other play styles you use as a reason to not change anything.
if you would have come up with sth like a flat 20-25% maxmagica instead of fix magicapoint cost for RS wich would "hurt" all armor classes the same, that would be sth to discuss about. or to change RS entirly and make it a gapcloser while adding its functionality defensive posture wich would lvl the palyingfield for everybody.
but your 12min vid even though highly eloquent can be summerized in a few (exeggerated) words " ::'( dont reduce the efficeny of my build!
"
Doubling the cost is still a better solution than setting a 4 projectile limit. Another solution which would probably favor all armor types would be to make it cost 100 magicka for each spell reflected and 100 stamina for each non-spell projectile reflected. This would be a fair bases for Heavy, Medium, and Light armor builds.
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eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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WTF? Why does every DK keep saying this? Waaah we don't have ranged abilities! PICK UP A F**KING WEAPON LIKE THE REST OF US AND USE THE ABILITIES THAT EVERYONE HAS ACCESS TO!i dont see a problem with the scales change myself. as long as DKs get ranged compensation....
and i dont mean grabbing a bow and spamming the heal-debuff that ZOS clearly does not want to fix, i mean ranged warfare being supported by the class itself.
i will also be interested to see how DKs tank once this change goes through. will they continue to perma block entire battles(unless ZOS has removed block and casting by then) or will they be forced to roll dodge and/or find a new combo?
the months ahead will be interesting.Edited by eventide03b14a_ESO on 10 December 2014 14:29:trollin:4 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
And yet I somehow manage just fine on my nightblade without reflective scales. Go figure. I guess it can be done without an easy mode, faceroll, i win button.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
So let me make sure I get this. DKs can only do close range damage, therefore they get an ability that makes them completely immune to all projectiles, because they for some reason shouldn't be required to use weapon abilities.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
But those are the same challenges every other class has.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I'm sure you're a great player and you will adapt. This isn't the end of the world like everyone is making it seem. That is all I am saying. There are other options.
I don't know if I'm a good player or not, but I will adapt. It's not "the end" for DK's. My concern is over how this particular change will change the landscape of pvp (pew pew stand offs) and how this further narrows down DKs into fewer and fewer builds. If we choose range we lose our class damagers, if we choose melee we suffer focus fire without executes or escapes.
Even those fighting for an RS nerf think the 4 hits is bogus. If they need to nerf it they need to do it right and this isn't it.
You can cast ranged class damagers at melee range, however you cannot cast melee class damagers at range. It only works one way.
If DKs have an unmitigated ability to completely reflect all projects back at the caster shouldn't the other classes all have a way to be immune to talons, lava whip, searing strike, fiery breath, stone fist, etc.? I mean it's fair right? We should be able to reflect all the nasty things you throw on us when you perma root us in place and hit us with all of your high damaging abilities. The fact that those that play your class still don't see this side to it is mind boggling given how well reported it is.
Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.
Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.
If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.
When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.
I assume by "Doing just fine" you are referring to the same scenario of entering a zerg and holding your own. Let me guess you use class skills to accomplish that right? Interesting...so the skills that allow you to successfully handle your own allow you to successfully handle your own. Thats some good stuff right there.Retired.
Nord mDK1 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Not exclusively, no. I also use restoration staff abilities instead of crying that I don't have heals like a templar.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
And yet I somehow manage just fine on my nightblade without reflective scales. Go figure. I guess it can be done without an easy mode, faceroll, i win button.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
So let me make sure I get this. DKs can only do close range damage, therefore they get an ability that makes them completely immune to all projectiles, because they for some reason shouldn't be required to use weapon abilities.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
But those are the same challenges every other class has.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I'm sure you're a great player and you will adapt. This isn't the end of the world like everyone is making it seem. That is all I am saying. There are other options.
I don't know if I'm a good player or not, but I will adapt. It's not "the end" for DK's. My concern is over how this particular change will change the landscape of pvp (pew pew stand offs) and how this further narrows down DKs into fewer and fewer builds. If we choose range we lose our class damagers, if we choose melee we suffer focus fire without executes or escapes.
Even those fighting for an RS nerf think the 4 hits is bogus. If they need to nerf it they need to do it right and this isn't it.
You can cast ranged class damagers at melee range, however you cannot cast melee class damagers at range. It only works one way.
If DKs have an unmitigated ability to completely reflect all projects back at the caster shouldn't the other classes all have a way to be immune to talons, lava whip, searing strike, fiery breath, stone fist, etc.? I mean it's fair right? We should be able to reflect all the nasty things you throw on us when you perma root us in place and hit us with all of your high damaging abilities. The fact that those that play your class still don't see this side to it is mind boggling given how well reported it is.
Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.
Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.
If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.
When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.
I assume by "Doing just fine" you are referring to the same scenario of entering a zerg and holding your own. Let me guess you use class skills to accomplish that right? Interesting...so the skills that allow you to successfully handle your own allow you to successfully handle your own. Thats some good stuff right there.
:trollin:2 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Not exclusively, no. I also use restoration staff abilities instead of crying that I don't have heals like a templar.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
And yet I somehow manage just fine on my nightblade without reflective scales. Go figure. I guess it can be done without an easy mode, faceroll, i win button.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
So let me make sure I get this. DKs can only do close range damage, therefore they get an ability that makes them completely immune to all projectiles, because they for some reason shouldn't be required to use weapon abilities.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
But those are the same challenges every other class has.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I'm sure you're a great player and you will adapt. This isn't the end of the world like everyone is making it seem. That is all I am saying. There are other options.
I don't know if I'm a good player or not, but I will adapt. It's not "the end" for DK's. My concern is over how this particular change will change the landscape of pvp (pew pew stand offs) and how this further narrows down DKs into fewer and fewer builds. If we choose range we lose our class damagers, if we choose melee we suffer focus fire without executes or escapes.
Even those fighting for an RS nerf think the 4 hits is bogus. If they need to nerf it they need to do it right and this isn't it.
You can cast ranged class damagers at melee range, however you cannot cast melee class damagers at range. It only works one way.
If DKs have an unmitigated ability to completely reflect all projects back at the caster shouldn't the other classes all have a way to be immune to talons, lava whip, searing strike, fiery breath, stone fist, etc.? I mean it's fair right? We should be able to reflect all the nasty things you throw on us when you perma root us in place and hit us with all of your high damaging abilities. The fact that those that play your class still don't see this side to it is mind boggling given how well reported it is.
Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.
Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.
If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.
When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.
I assume by "Doing just fine" you are referring to the same scenario of entering a zerg and holding your own. Let me guess you use class skills to accomplish that right? Interesting...so the skills that allow you to successfully handle your own allow you to successfully handle your own. Thats some good stuff right there.
No one uses class skills exclusively.Retired.
Nord mDK1 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.
Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.
If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.
When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.
What do you think how Templar tank feels in such situation? Soon you pop Blazing Shield in order to have at least some chance to survive in mid of action, enemies see 'bulb' lighten up shouting 'shoot me, shoot me', while Scales will send a message 'stop dps for a moment'. Shield can go down in a second, with single shot, and that can't be said for Scales. Pure math says you can spam Scales for a minute or more, and you can't do that with Blazing Shield, not even remotely.
If you talon, cinder, banner someone and he move out of it you can use chains to bring him back in your puddle of doom, but if you are Templar you have no option but to charge, wait for a GCD (Focused charge ability is one (have two more) out of five known abilities with GCD) and than recast Spear shards for example, in hope target not moved already by the time spear animation land. Templar also don't have any roots like DK have.
On top of that, if DK needs to heal himself and have resources to do so, nothing will stop it except cc, but if Templar needs to do it most likely his heal will go to some other guy nearby (happens on regular basis), leaving you with same low health but without magicka invested in heal. Awesome, right?
Blazing Shield templars should not have much trouble with DKs, you might be doing it wrong if you are.“Whatever.”
-Unknown American2 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
This *** arguments keeps getting repeated over and over. The reason Sorcs and NBs have escape skills is because both of them lack any kind of meaningful healing skills. Both DKs and TPs do have such skills, hence they don't have any escape skills.If the Scales gets nerfed DKs will get owned to easy, the reason why DKs need the Scales is because we have no ''escapes'' while NBs and Sorcs can just ''dissapear'' I don't know about Templars tho, but they have some hardcore shields which let them survive. But yea Scales should not get nerfed, in that case we would need a replacement...
Sorcs have the best heal in the game, critical surge, and you don't even have to stop doing damage to heal. That's a silly argument.“Whatever.”
-Unknown American3 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Okay....so what's the problem? Why can't DK's pick up a ranged weapon and stop crying? Is it because their entire build relies on standing there spamming one skill at a safe distance and not having to worry about it being countered?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Not exclusively, no. I also use restoration staff abilities instead of crying that I don't have heals like a templar.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
And yet I somehow manage just fine on my nightblade without reflective scales. Go figure. I guess it can be done without an easy mode, faceroll, i win button.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
So let me make sure I get this. DKs can only do close range damage, therefore they get an ability that makes them completely immune to all projectiles, because they for some reason shouldn't be required to use weapon abilities.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
But those are the same challenges every other class has.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I'm sure you're a great player and you will adapt. This isn't the end of the world like everyone is making it seem. That is all I am saying. There are other options.
I don't know if I'm a good player or not, but I will adapt. It's not "the end" for DK's. My concern is over how this particular change will change the landscape of pvp (pew pew stand offs) and how this further narrows down DKs into fewer and fewer builds. If we choose range we lose our class damagers, if we choose melee we suffer focus fire without executes or escapes.
Even those fighting for an RS nerf think the 4 hits is bogus. If they need to nerf it they need to do it right and this isn't it.
You can cast ranged class damagers at melee range, however you cannot cast melee class damagers at range. It only works one way.
If DKs have an unmitigated ability to completely reflect all projects back at the caster shouldn't the other classes all have a way to be immune to talons, lava whip, searing strike, fiery breath, stone fist, etc.? I mean it's fair right? We should be able to reflect all the nasty things you throw on us when you perma root us in place and hit us with all of your high damaging abilities. The fact that those that play your class still don't see this side to it is mind boggling given how well reported it is.
Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.
Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.
If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.
When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.
I assume by "Doing just fine" you are referring to the same scenario of entering a zerg and holding your own. Let me guess you use class skills to accomplish that right? Interesting...so the skills that allow you to successfully handle your own allow you to successfully handle your own. Thats some good stuff right there.
No one uses class skills exclusively.
:trollin:2 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Critical surge is all but useless in PvP when everyone is wearing impenetrable. And you are honestly going to say that they have the best solo heal? It's basically a life tap-ish skill and it's no where near as effective as funnel health.AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »
This *** arguments keeps getting repeated over and over. The reason Sorcs and NBs have escape skills is because both of them lack any kind of meaningful healing skills. Both DKs and TPs do have such skills, hence they don't have any escape skills.If the Scales gets nerfed DKs will get owned to easy, the reason why DKs need the Scales is because we have no ''escapes'' while NBs and Sorcs can just ''dissapear'' I don't know about Templars tho, but they have some hardcore shields which let them survive. But yea Scales should not get nerfed, in that case we would need a replacement...
Sorcs have the best heal in the game, critical surge, and you don't even have to stop doing damage to heal. That's a silly argument.:trollin:1 -
Sublime✭✭✭✭You could explain them how to drain enemy resources, conter reflect etc., how to use an enemy mistake for ur advantage, and everything else u learn by doing, but this won't change anything.
If experienced players fight other experienced players it's kinda balanced, everyone understand their own class and are able to conter the enemy.
But newbies will always flame if they die, that's normal and u can't do anything against that.
I duel the most time, fought every kind of build/class combination and at least in 1v1 scales is not op or something.
Problems against DKs in grps?
Don't stand like a *** with 20ppl in a 5m radius around him. He gains more ultimate, so he can use his ultimate faster and gain more resources back, gg.
U see the flappy flappy thing? Don't use range or try your own reflect.
Ofc reflect is strong in grps but reducing to 4 possible reflected skills is not that nice in grps and is a huge nerf if you use that mostly.
Anyway, you will find new ways and reflect won't be the only changed skill.
Who knows about blazing Shield, fear, etc.?
Of course there will always be better and worse players, and not seperating these is a problem of most MMO's. The aim is not to solve the problem but to provide help for those who want to be helped (you can't help the rest anyways), especially for the new ones. But the way some people argue/play makes me seriously doubt that the required information is presented accordingly.
And nobody likes to die, but having a site, which people could be directed to would solve a lot of problems in my opinion. Edited by Sublime on 10 December 2014 15:14Keepers of Cyrodiil | Aether | The Achievement Seekers
For those who want to improve their behaviour:
gdcvault.com/play/1017940/The-Science-Behind_shaping-Player
PvP Class Balance Analysis as of 2.0.7 Outdated
[Stamina] PvP Class Balance Analysis as of 2.0.7 Outdated
"Again, we’re not really a traditional MMO, we are much more of a hybrid, kind of like an ‘online RPG’." - Matt Firor0 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Okay....so what's the problem? Why can't DK's pick up a ranged weapon and stop crying? Is it because their entire build relies on standing there spamming one skill at a safe distance and not having to worry about it being countered?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Not exclusively, no. I also use restoration staff abilities instead of crying that I don't have heals like a templar.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
And yet I somehow manage just fine on my nightblade without reflective scales. Go figure. I guess it can be done without an easy mode, faceroll, i win button.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
So let me make sure I get this. DKs can only do close range damage, therefore they get an ability that makes them completely immune to all projectiles, because they for some reason shouldn't be required to use weapon abilities.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
But those are the same challenges every other class has.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I'm sure you're a great player and you will adapt. This isn't the end of the world like everyone is making it seem. That is all I am saying. There are other options.
I don't know if I'm a good player or not, but I will adapt. It's not "the end" for DK's. My concern is over how this particular change will change the landscape of pvp (pew pew stand offs) and how this further narrows down DKs into fewer and fewer builds. If we choose range we lose our class damagers, if we choose melee we suffer focus fire without executes or escapes.
Even those fighting for an RS nerf think the 4 hits is bogus. If they need to nerf it they need to do it right and this isn't it.
You can cast ranged class damagers at melee range, however you cannot cast melee class damagers at range. It only works one way.
If DKs have an unmitigated ability to completely reflect all projects back at the caster shouldn't the other classes all have a way to be immune to talons, lava whip, searing strike, fiery breath, stone fist, etc.? I mean it's fair right? We should be able to reflect all the nasty things you throw on us when you perma root us in place and hit us with all of your high damaging abilities. The fact that those that play your class still don't see this side to it is mind boggling given how well reported it is.
Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.
Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.
If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.
When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.
I assume by "Doing just fine" you are referring to the same scenario of entering a zerg and holding your own. Let me guess you use class skills to accomplish that right? Interesting...so the skills that allow you to successfully handle your own allow you to successfully handle your own. Thats some good stuff right there.
No one uses class skills exclusively.
We have been over this before. You never responded the last time. You could counter by using a build that doesn't play into his hands.
I know Sorcs can Bolt so I equip a gap closer
I know NB can stealth so I carry detect pots
I know DKs can reflect so I equip non projectiles only equip projectiles.Edited by Armitas on 10 December 2014 15:31Retired.
Nord mDK5 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why not both? I play melee NB but it's nearly impossible to kill a Templar in melee if he spams blazing Shield and is slightly experienced with resource management.
So I use a range ability to avoid his miss ability and blazing Shield.
You want to have everything and that shouldn't work..R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -2 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I'm not debating what DKs can or cannot do or even what I can or cannot do. They are the only class that has had a free pass at being completely immune to projectiles. Their RS only means that people target me for lethal arrow more since my class can't reflect it. I'm glad they are finally becoming mortal like the rest of us.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Okay....so what's the problem? Why can't DK's pick up a ranged weapon and stop crying? Is it because their entire build relies on standing there spamming one skill at a safe distance and not having to worry about it being countered?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Not exclusively, no. I also use restoration staff abilities instead of crying that I don't have heals like a templar.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
And yet I somehow manage just fine on my nightblade without reflective scales. Go figure. I guess it can be done without an easy mode, faceroll, i win button.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
So let me make sure I get this. DKs can only do close range damage, therefore they get an ability that makes them completely immune to all projectiles, because they for some reason shouldn't be required to use weapon abilities.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
But those are the same challenges every other class has.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I'm sure you're a great player and you will adapt. This isn't the end of the world like everyone is making it seem. That is all I am saying. There are other options.
I don't know if I'm a good player or not, but I will adapt. It's not "the end" for DK's. My concern is over how this particular change will change the landscape of pvp (pew pew stand offs) and how this further narrows down DKs into fewer and fewer builds. If we choose range we lose our class damagers, if we choose melee we suffer focus fire without executes or escapes.
Even those fighting for an RS nerf think the 4 hits is bogus. If they need to nerf it they need to do it right and this isn't it.
You can cast ranged class damagers at melee range, however you cannot cast melee class damagers at range. It only works one way.
If DKs have an unmitigated ability to completely reflect all projects back at the caster shouldn't the other classes all have a way to be immune to talons, lava whip, searing strike, fiery breath, stone fist, etc.? I mean it's fair right? We should be able to reflect all the nasty things you throw on us when you perma root us in place and hit us with all of your high damaging abilities. The fact that those that play your class still don't see this side to it is mind boggling given how well reported it is.
Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.
Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.
If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.
When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.
I assume by "Doing just fine" you are referring to the same scenario of entering a zerg and holding your own. Let me guess you use class skills to accomplish that right? Interesting...so the skills that allow you to successfully handle your own allow you to successfully handle your own. Thats some good stuff right there.
No one uses class skills exclusively.
We have been over this before. You never responded the last time. You could counter by using a build that doesn't play into his hands.
I know Sorcs can Bolt so I equip a gap closer
I know NB can stealth so I carry detect pots
I know DKs can reflect so I equip non projectiles only equip projectiles.
:trollin:1 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Blazing Shield templars should not have much trouble with DKs, you might be doing it wrong if you are.
Why noone mention here that blazing shield is able to reflect projectiles the 1-2 first sec after the cast? I dont know if its somehow an exploit but ive seen that happening,and reported offcourseEdited by Nicko_Lps on 10 December 2014 15:200 -
Thechemicals✭✭✭✭✭Dk going to get ravaged soon enough. Payback i suppose for all the vanilla builds that so many consider themselves pro under.Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
Vr14 Dk bow/2h
Brayan Blackthunder
Goddick
Daggerfall Covenant0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Are you talking about eclipse? Because that's something completely different.AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Blazing Shield templars should not have much trouble with DKs, you might be doing it wrong if you are.
Why noone mention here that blazing shield is able to reflect projectiles the 1-2 first sec after the cast? I dont know if its somehow an exploit but ive seen that happening,and reported offcourse
:trollin:0 -
Ling✭✭✭my personally best solution for reflect is:
6 seconds duration
and reflect 50% of all
i think thats fair!Lìng ~ Ebonheart-PactAchievement points: 33290
Alliance rank: Grand Overlord (50)(since 2016)
Soloplayer ♡2 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
I'm not debating what DKs can or cannot do or even what I can or cannot do. They are the only class that has had a free pass at being completely immune to projectiles. Their RS only means that people target me for lethal arrow more since my class can't reflect it. I'm glad they are finally becoming mortal like the rest of us.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Okay....so what's the problem? Why can't DK's pick up a ranged weapon and stop crying? Is it because their entire build relies on standing there spamming one skill at a safe distance and not having to worry about it being countered?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Not exclusively, no. I also use restoration staff abilities instead of crying that I don't have heals like a templar.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
And yet I somehow manage just fine on my nightblade without reflective scales. Go figure. I guess it can be done without an easy mode, faceroll, i win button.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
So let me make sure I get this. DKs can only do close range damage, therefore they get an ability that makes them completely immune to all projectiles, because they for some reason shouldn't be required to use weapon abilities.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
But those are the same challenges every other class has.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I'm sure you're a great player and you will adapt. This isn't the end of the world like everyone is making it seem. That is all I am saying. There are other options.
I don't know if I'm a good player or not, but I will adapt. It's not "the end" for DK's. My concern is over how this particular change will change the landscape of pvp (pew pew stand offs) and how this further narrows down DKs into fewer and fewer builds. If we choose range we lose our class damagers, if we choose melee we suffer focus fire without executes or escapes.
Even those fighting for an RS nerf think the 4 hits is bogus. If they need to nerf it they need to do it right and this isn't it.
You can cast ranged class damagers at melee range, however you cannot cast melee class damagers at range. It only works one way.
If DKs have an unmitigated ability to completely reflect all projects back at the caster shouldn't the other classes all have a way to be immune to talons, lava whip, searing strike, fiery breath, stone fist, etc.? I mean it's fair right? We should be able to reflect all the nasty things you throw on us when you perma root us in place and hit us with all of your high damaging abilities. The fact that those that play your class still don't see this side to it is mind boggling given how well reported it is.
Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.
Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.
If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.
When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.
I assume by "Doing just fine" you are referring to the same scenario of entering a zerg and holding your own. Let me guess you use class skills to accomplish that right? Interesting...so the skills that allow you to successfully handle your own allow you to successfully handle your own. Thats some good stuff right there.
No one uses class skills exclusively.
We have been over this before. You never responded the last time. You could counter by using a build that doesn't play into his hands.
I know Sorcs can Bolt so I equip a gap closer
I know NB can stealth so I carry detect pots
I know DKs can reflect so I equip non projectiles only equip projectiles.
You said just earlier....eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »And yet I somehow manage just fine on my nightblade without reflective scales. Go figure. I guess it can be done without an easy mode, faceroll, i win button.
So what do you care whether they have it or not? You are doing just fine without it.Retired.
Nord mDK0 -
Jahosefat✭✭✭✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »
This *** arguments keeps getting repeated over and over. The reason Sorcs and NBs have escape skills is because both of them lack any kind of meaningful healing skills. Both DKs and TPs do have such skills, hence they don't have any escape skills.If the Scales gets nerfed DKs will get owned to easy, the reason why DKs need the Scales is because we have no ''escapes'' while NBs and Sorcs can just ''dissapear'' I don't know about Templars tho, but they have some hardcore shields which let them survive. But yea Scales should not get nerfed, in that case we would need a replacement...
Sorcs have the best heal in the game, critical surge, and you don't even have to stop doing damage to heal. That's a silly argument.
LOL. Best PVE heal? Maybe if you are soloing (try healing a friend with it
). Best PVP heal? LOLOL. There is something called impenetrable, and every good player has it. Obviously you have never used crit surge before. And for crit rush from 2hander, block is the counter (no crit, no heal, dead sorc 
). Edited by Jahosefat on 10 December 2014 15:38Joeshock- AD NA AB Thorn Chill Sorc New Eden Low Sec Roamer
Fight not with monsters lest ye become one2 -
themdogesbite✭✭✭✭✭
✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
I'm not debating what DKs can or cannot do or even what I can or cannot do. They are the only class that has had a free pass at being completely immune to projectiles. Their RS only means that people target me for lethal arrow more since my class can't reflect it. I'm glad they are finally becoming mortal like the rest of us.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Okay....so what's the problem? Why can't DK's pick up a ranged weapon and stop crying? Is it because their entire build relies on standing there spamming one skill at a safe distance and not having to worry about it being countered?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Not exclusively, no. I also use restoration staff abilities instead of crying that I don't have heals like a templar.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
And yet I somehow manage just fine on my nightblade without reflective scales. Go figure. I guess it can be done without an easy mode, faceroll, i win button.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
So let me make sure I get this. DKs can only do close range damage, therefore they get an ability that makes them completely immune to all projectiles, because they for some reason shouldn't be required to use weapon abilities.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
But those are the same challenges every other class has.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I'm sure you're a great player and you will adapt. This isn't the end of the world like everyone is making it seem. That is all I am saying. There are other options.
I don't know if I'm a good player or not, but I will adapt. It's not "the end" for DK's. My concern is over how this particular change will change the landscape of pvp (pew pew stand offs) and how this further narrows down DKs into fewer and fewer builds. If we choose range we lose our class damagers, if we choose melee we suffer focus fire without executes or escapes.
Even those fighting for an RS nerf think the 4 hits is bogus. If they need to nerf it they need to do it right and this isn't it.
You can cast ranged class damagers at melee range, however you cannot cast melee class damagers at range. It only works one way.
If DKs have an unmitigated ability to completely reflect all projects back at the caster shouldn't the other classes all have a way to be immune to talons, lava whip, searing strike, fiery breath, stone fist, etc.? I mean it's fair right? We should be able to reflect all the nasty things you throw on us when you perma root us in place and hit us with all of your high damaging abilities. The fact that those that play your class still don't see this side to it is mind boggling given how well reported it is.
Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.
Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.
If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.
When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.
I assume by "Doing just fine" you are referring to the same scenario of entering a zerg and holding your own. Let me guess you use class skills to accomplish that right? Interesting...so the skills that allow you to successfully handle your own allow you to successfully handle your own. Thats some good stuff right there.
No one uses class skills exclusively.
We have been over this before. You never responded the last time. You could counter by using a build that doesn't play into his hands.
I know Sorcs can Bolt so I equip a gap closer
I know NB can stealth so I carry detect pots
I know DKs can reflect so I equip non projectiles only equip projectiles.
Yet NB´s are the only class with a CC that goes through block. Hypocrite.:]3 -
Nijjion✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »And yet I somehow manage just fine on my nightblade without reflective scales. Go figure. I guess it can be done without an easy mode, faceroll, i win button.
That's because a NB style of play is different and not needed.
Also Stealth
NijjijjioN - DK - AR27NijjioN - NB -Daggerfall CovenantThe Nice Guys GuildEverQuest -> Dark Age of Camelot -> Ragnarok Online -> Cabal Online -> Guild Wars 1 -> Warhammer Online -> Vindictus -> SWTOR -> Tera -> Guild Wars 2 -> Elder Scrolls Online ->
Eagerly awaiting Camelot Unchained.0 -
pmn100b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
I'm not debating what DKs can or cannot do or even what I can or cannot do. They are the only class that has had a free pass at being completely immune to projectiles. Their RS only means that people target me for lethal arrow more since my class can't reflect it. I'm glad they are finally becoming mortal like the rest of us.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Okay....so what's the problem? Why can't DK's pick up a ranged weapon and stop crying? Is it because their entire build relies on standing there spamming one skill at a safe distance and not having to worry about it being countered?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Not exclusively, no. I also use restoration staff abilities instead of crying that I don't have heals like a templar.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
And yet I somehow manage just fine on my nightblade without reflective scales. Go figure. I guess it can be done without an easy mode, faceroll, i win button.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
So let me make sure I get this. DKs can only do close range damage, therefore they get an ability that makes them completely immune to all projectiles, because they for some reason shouldn't be required to use weapon abilities.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
But those are the same challenges every other class has.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I'm sure you're a great player and you will adapt. This isn't the end of the world like everyone is making it seem. That is all I am saying. There are other options.
I don't know if I'm a good player or not, but I will adapt. It's not "the end" for DK's. My concern is over how this particular change will change the landscape of pvp (pew pew stand offs) and how this further narrows down DKs into fewer and fewer builds. If we choose range we lose our class damagers, if we choose melee we suffer focus fire without executes or escapes.
Even those fighting for an RS nerf think the 4 hits is bogus. If they need to nerf it they need to do it right and this isn't it.
You can cast ranged class damagers at melee range, however you cannot cast melee class damagers at range. It only works one way.
If DKs have an unmitigated ability to completely reflect all projects back at the caster shouldn't the other classes all have a way to be immune to talons, lava whip, searing strike, fiery breath, stone fist, etc.? I mean it's fair right? We should be able to reflect all the nasty things you throw on us when you perma root us in place and hit us with all of your high damaging abilities. The fact that those that play your class still don't see this side to it is mind boggling given how well reported it is.
Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.
Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.
If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.
When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.
I assume by "Doing just fine" you are referring to the same scenario of entering a zerg and holding your own. Let me guess you use class skills to accomplish that right? Interesting...so the skills that allow you to successfully handle your own allow you to successfully handle your own. Thats some good stuff right there.
No one uses class skills exclusively.
We have been over this before. You never responded the last time. You could counter by using a build that doesn't play into his hands.
I know Sorcs can Bolt so I equip a gap closer
I know NB can stealth so I carry detect pots
I know DKs can reflect so I equip non projectiles only equip projectiles.
Yet NB´s are the only class with a CC that goes through block. Hypocrite.
Talons? All AoE abilities go through block, nothing new.2 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
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Will be a glorious day when you punks cant block cast and be gods all while reflecting everything in the game. Your time is up :P Sorry bout your bad luck lol everyone knew it was coming. You guys had a good run huh
You said Punks?
Im only seeing one here in this post acting like this you described, you.
If youre unciviled or somewhat a caveman u better conversate with trees or rocks. I aint gonna do you the favor kid.
I had edited all the horrible wording in your response (though I never asked for it like you are saying). Then I deleted it. Do not get so mad over the word punk. Besides, block casting is going no where ever. That glorious day will never come. Have a beer with your friends and complain that I said punk and tell them how it made you really mad!Edited by Gorthax on 10 December 2014 15:590
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyFNy24fViM