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REFLECTIVE SCALES NEEDS NERF
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Thechemicals✭✭✭✭✭Everyone should have dragon wings. Problem solved.Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
Vr14 Dk bow/2h
Brayan Blackthunder
Goddick
Daggerfall Covenant1 -
stylepolice✭✭✭Thechemicals wrote: »Everyone should have dragon wings. Problem solved.
ZOS could change defensive stance to reflect all projectiles, maybe that would help a bit.1 -
Thechemicals✭✭✭✭✭stylepolice wrote: »Thechemicals wrote: »Everyone should have dragon wings. Problem solved.
ZOS could change defensive stance to reflect all projectiles, maybe that would help a bit.
or reflect all physical attacks.Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
Vr14 Dk bow/2h
Brayan Blackthunder
Goddick
Daggerfall Covenant0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Smart people target non DKs and that's a little bit of BS as far as I'm concerned. My comment was about killing DKs. I know how to get around RS, a lot of people either don't or can't be bothered and would rather snipe other classes.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
I'm not debating what DKs can or cannot do or even what I can or cannot do. They are the only class that has had a free pass at being completely immune to projectiles. Their RS only means that people target me for lethal arrow more since my class can't reflect it. I'm glad they are finally becoming mortal like the rest of us.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Okay....so what's the problem? Why can't DK's pick up a ranged weapon and stop crying? Is it because their entire build relies on standing there spamming one skill at a safe distance and not having to worry about it being countered?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Not exclusively, no. I also use restoration staff abilities instead of crying that I don't have heals like a templar.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
And yet I somehow manage just fine on my nightblade without reflective scales. Go figure. I guess it can be done without an easy mode, faceroll, i win button.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
So let me make sure I get this. DKs can only do close range damage, therefore they get an ability that makes them completely immune to all projectiles, because they for some reason shouldn't be required to use weapon abilities.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
But those are the same challenges every other class has.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I'm sure you're a great player and you will adapt. This isn't the end of the world like everyone is making it seem. That is all I am saying. There are other options.
I don't know if I'm a good player or not, but I will adapt. It's not "the end" for DK's. My concern is over how this particular change will change the landscape of pvp (pew pew stand offs) and how this further narrows down DKs into fewer and fewer builds. If we choose range we lose our class damagers, if we choose melee we suffer focus fire without executes or escapes.
Even those fighting for an RS nerf think the 4 hits is bogus. If they need to nerf it they need to do it right and this isn't it.
You can cast ranged class damagers at melee range, however you cannot cast melee class damagers at range. It only works one way.
If DKs have an unmitigated ability to completely reflect all projects back at the caster shouldn't the other classes all have a way to be immune to talons, lava whip, searing strike, fiery breath, stone fist, etc.? I mean it's fair right? We should be able to reflect all the nasty things you throw on us when you perma root us in place and hit us with all of your high damaging abilities. The fact that those that play your class still don't see this side to it is mind boggling given how well reported it is.
Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.
Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.
If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.
When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.
I assume by "Doing just fine" you are referring to the same scenario of entering a zerg and holding your own. Let me guess you use class skills to accomplish that right? Interesting...so the skills that allow you to successfully handle your own allow you to successfully handle your own. Thats some good stuff right there.
No one uses class skills exclusively.
We have been over this before. You never responded the last time. You could counter by using a build that doesn't play into his hands.
I know Sorcs can Bolt so I equip a gap closer
I know NB can stealth so I carry detect pots
I know DKs can reflect so I equip non projectiles only equip projectiles.
You said just earlier....eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »And yet I somehow manage just fine on my nightblade without reflective scales. Go figure. I guess it can be done without an easy mode, faceroll, i win button.
So what do you care whether they have it or not? You are doing just fine without it.:trollin:1 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Are you kidding me? Mass Hysteria only effects 2 targets and can only be used close range. I know you are not comparing it to RS. Even nerfed RS offers way more protection. Oh, and you guys still have talons, the most OP CC in the game. Also, as someone else mentioned block doesn't work for any AoE.johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
I'm not debating what DKs can or cannot do or even what I can or cannot do. They are the only class that has had a free pass at being completely immune to projectiles. Their RS only means that people target me for lethal arrow more since my class can't reflect it. I'm glad they are finally becoming mortal like the rest of us.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Okay....so what's the problem? Why can't DK's pick up a ranged weapon and stop crying? Is it because their entire build relies on standing there spamming one skill at a safe distance and not having to worry about it being countered?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Not exclusively, no. I also use restoration staff abilities instead of crying that I don't have heals like a templar.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
And yet I somehow manage just fine on my nightblade without reflective scales. Go figure. I guess it can be done without an easy mode, faceroll, i win button.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
So let me make sure I get this. DKs can only do close range damage, therefore they get an ability that makes them completely immune to all projectiles, because they for some reason shouldn't be required to use weapon abilities.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
But those are the same challenges every other class has.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I'm sure you're a great player and you will adapt. This isn't the end of the world like everyone is making it seem. That is all I am saying. There are other options.
I don't know if I'm a good player or not, but I will adapt. It's not "the end" for DK's. My concern is over how this particular change will change the landscape of pvp (pew pew stand offs) and how this further narrows down DKs into fewer and fewer builds. If we choose range we lose our class damagers, if we choose melee we suffer focus fire without executes or escapes.
Even those fighting for an RS nerf think the 4 hits is bogus. If they need to nerf it they need to do it right and this isn't it.
You can cast ranged class damagers at melee range, however you cannot cast melee class damagers at range. It only works one way.
If DKs have an unmitigated ability to completely reflect all projects back at the caster shouldn't the other classes all have a way to be immune to talons, lava whip, searing strike, fiery breath, stone fist, etc.? I mean it's fair right? We should be able to reflect all the nasty things you throw on us when you perma root us in place and hit us with all of your high damaging abilities. The fact that those that play your class still don't see this side to it is mind boggling given how well reported it is.
Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.
Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.
If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.
When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.
I assume by "Doing just fine" you are referring to the same scenario of entering a zerg and holding your own. Let me guess you use class skills to accomplish that right? Interesting...so the skills that allow you to successfully handle your own allow you to successfully handle your own. Thats some good stuff right there.
No one uses class skills exclusively.
We have been over this before. You never responded the last time. You could counter by using a build that doesn't play into his hands.
I know Sorcs can Bolt so I equip a gap closer
I know NB can stealth so I carry detect pots
I know DKs can reflect so I equip non projectiles only equip projectiles.
Yet NB´s are the only class with a CC that goes through block. Hypocrite.Edited by eventide03b14a_ESO on 10 December 2014 16:47:trollin:2 -
Heruthema✭✭✭✭OK so the answer is to NERF DK's out of existence since you can not find a way to kill them. Whine, Whine, Whine!!!!! Will it ever stop?2 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
It's not that they can't be killed. That's not what this is about. People that play DKs have seriously mastered hyperbole.OK so the answer is to NERF DK's out of existence since you can not find a way to kill them. Whine, Whine, Whine!!!!! Will it ever stop?- We have NO ranged ability. (What's a bow? What's a staff? Derp derp derp.)
- We have NO gap closers. (What's shield charge? Critical charge? Derpy derpy doo!)
- We won't be able to tank in PvP! (WTF? Tank in PvP?? Are they taunting others players too? LMFAO)
:trollin:5 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Smart people target non DKs and that's a little bit of BS as far as I'm concerned. My comment was about killing DKs. I know how to get around RS, a lot of people either don't or can't be bothered and would rather snipe other classes.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
I'm not debating what DKs can or cannot do or even what I can or cannot do. They are the only class that has had a free pass at being completely immune to projectiles. Their RS only means that people target me for lethal arrow more since my class can't reflect it. I'm glad they are finally becoming mortal like the rest of us.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Okay....so what's the problem? Why can't DK's pick up a ranged weapon and stop crying? Is it because their entire build relies on standing there spamming one skill at a safe distance and not having to worry about it being countered?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Not exclusively, no. I also use restoration staff abilities instead of crying that I don't have heals like a templar.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
And yet I somehow manage just fine on my nightblade without reflective scales. Go figure. I guess it can be done without an easy mode, faceroll, i win button.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
So let me make sure I get this. DKs can only do close range damage, therefore they get an ability that makes them completely immune to all projectiles, because they for some reason shouldn't be required to use weapon abilities.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
But those are the same challenges every other class has.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I'm sure you're a great player and you will adapt. This isn't the end of the world like everyone is making it seem. That is all I am saying. There are other options.
I don't know if I'm a good player or not, but I will adapt. It's not "the end" for DK's. My concern is over how this particular change will change the landscape of pvp (pew pew stand offs) and how this further narrows down DKs into fewer and fewer builds. If we choose range we lose our class damagers, if we choose melee we suffer focus fire without executes or escapes.
Even those fighting for an RS nerf think the 4 hits is bogus. If they need to nerf it they need to do it right and this isn't it.
You can cast ranged class damagers at melee range, however you cannot cast melee class damagers at range. It only works one way.
If DKs have an unmitigated ability to completely reflect all projects back at the caster shouldn't the other classes all have a way to be immune to talons, lava whip, searing strike, fiery breath, stone fist, etc.? I mean it's fair right? We should be able to reflect all the nasty things you throw on us when you perma root us in place and hit us with all of your high damaging abilities. The fact that those that play your class still don't see this side to it is mind boggling given how well reported it is.
Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.
Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.
If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.
When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.
I assume by "Doing just fine" you are referring to the same scenario of entering a zerg and holding your own. Let me guess you use class skills to accomplish that right? Interesting...so the skills that allow you to successfully handle your own allow you to successfully handle your own. Thats some good stuff right there.
No one uses class skills exclusively.
We have been over this before. You never responded the last time. You could counter by using a build that doesn't play into his hands.
I know Sorcs can Bolt so I equip a gap closer
I know NB can stealth so I carry detect pots
I know DKs can reflect so I equip non projectiles only equip projectiles.
You said just earlier....eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »And yet I somehow manage just fine on my nightblade without reflective scales. Go figure. I guess it can be done without an easy mode, faceroll, i win button.
So what do you care whether they have it or not? You are doing just fine without it.
You made that comment in reference to my post about entering a zerg as a DK. That post had nothing to do with killing DKs with a NB. I even replied to your post saying "I assume by "Doing just fine" you are referring to the same scenario of entering a zerg and holding your own." to which you replied without protest of that assumption. Nor would the statement "I manage just fine on my nightblade killing DKs without reflective scales" even make any sense. So yeah we all know what you were referring to, there is no point in trying to change that after the fact. Trying to downgrade that statement to just you BSing doesn't exactly help your credibility either.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I know how to get around RS, a lot of people either don't or can't be bothered and would rather snipe other classes.
Ok so in this post you admit that you are smart enough to "get around RS" and that other people simply don't know how to get around it or can't be bothered. You have just admitted its a L2P issue. Thank you.Edited by Armitas on 10 December 2014 17:22Retired.
Nord mDK4 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah, because S&B isn't good enough already. It really needs a buff.stylepolice wrote: »ZOS could change defensive stance to reflect all projectiles, maybe that would help a bit.
lol.
1 -
pmn100b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thechemicals wrote: »stylepolice wrote: »Thechemicals wrote: »Everyone should have dragon wings. Problem solved.
ZOS could change defensive stance to reflect all projectiles, maybe that would help a bit.
or reflect all physical attacks.
lol, then S&S DKs will truly be invincible.0 -
Sanct16✭✭✭✭✭
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Fear is the most op skill for small scale fights. It forces the enemy to break cc and waste loads of Stamina. You can avoid RS by being clever enough to use unreflectable attacks. Fear can only be countered by using immovable.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Are you kidding me? Mass Hysteria only effects 2 targets and can only be used close range. I know you are not comparing it to RS. Even nerfed RS offers way more protection. Oh, and you guys still have talons, the most OP CC in the game. Also, as someone else mentioned block doesn't work for any AoE.johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
I'm not debating what DKs can or cannot do or even what I can or cannot do. They are the only class that has had a free pass at being completely immune to projectiles. Their RS only means that people target me for lethal arrow more since my class can't reflect it. I'm glad they are finally becoming mortal like the rest of us.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Okay....so what's the problem? Why can't DK's pick up a ranged weapon and stop crying? Is it because their entire build relies on standing there spamming one skill at a safe distance and not having to worry about it being countered?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Not exclusively, no. I also use restoration staff abilities instead of crying that I don't have heals like a templar.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
And yet I somehow manage just fine on my nightblade without reflective scales. Go figure. I guess it can be done without an easy mode, faceroll, i win button.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
So let me make sure I get this. DKs can only do close range damage, therefore they get an ability that makes them completely immune to all projectiles, because they for some reason shouldn't be required to use weapon abilities.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
But those are the same challenges every other class has.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I'm sure you're a great player and you will adapt. This isn't the end of the world like everyone is making it seem. That is all I am saying. There are other options.
I don't know if I'm a good player or not, but I will adapt. It's not "the end" for DK's. My concern is over how this particular change will change the landscape of pvp (pew pew stand offs) and how this further narrows down DKs into fewer and fewer builds. If we choose range we lose our class damagers, if we choose melee we suffer focus fire without executes or escapes.
Even those fighting for an RS nerf think the 4 hits is bogus. If they need to nerf it they need to do it right and this isn't it.
You can cast ranged class damagers at melee range, however you cannot cast melee class damagers at range. It only works one way.
If DKs have an unmitigated ability to completely reflect all projects back at the caster shouldn't the other classes all have a way to be immune to talons, lava whip, searing strike, fiery breath, stone fist, etc.? I mean it's fair right? We should be able to reflect all the nasty things you throw on us when you perma root us in place and hit us with all of your high damaging abilities. The fact that those that play your class still don't see this side to it is mind boggling given how well reported it is.
Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.
Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.
If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.
When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.
I assume by "Doing just fine" you are referring to the same scenario of entering a zerg and holding your own. Let me guess you use class skills to accomplish that right? Interesting...so the skills that allow you to successfully handle your own allow you to successfully handle your own. Thats some good stuff right there.
No one uses class skills exclusively.
We have been over this before. You never responded the last time. You could counter by using a build that doesn't play into his hands.
I know Sorcs can Bolt so I equip a gap closer
I know NB can stealth so I carry detect pots
I know DKs can reflect so I equip non projectiles only equip projectiles.
Yet NB´s are the only class with a CC that goes through block. Hypocrite.
By saying that all AOE skills are not blockable you showed you have no clue about the game mechanics anyway.
- EU - Raid Leader of Banana Zerg Squad
AD | AR 50 | Sanct Fir'eheal | ex Mana DK @31.10.2015
EP | AR 50 | Sanctosaurus | Mana NB
AD | AR 44 | rekt ya | Mana NB
AD | AR 41 | Sanct Thunderstorm | Mana Sorc
EP | AR 36 | S'na'ct | Mana NB {NA}
AD | AR 29 | Captain Full Fist| Stam DK
AD | AR 29 | Sanct The Dark Phoenix| Stam Sorc
EP | AR 16 | Horny Sanct | Stam Warden
EP | AR 16 | Sánct Bánáná Sláyér | Mana DK
DC | AR 13 | ad worst faction eu | Stam Sorc
DC | AR 13 | Lagendary Sanct | Mana NB
>320.000.000 AP5 -
Lhorion✭✭✭✭✭As Sanct said.... Fear is very strong, but maybe not in the situation RS is so OP. Both are strong skills, but they are part of the class. Sure... There are some situations 10 noobs shooting one DK with projectils and he seems to be immortal. But against 10 good players a DK dies after a few seconds, too. We are not immortal, just against sorcs that cast the fragment and against bowusers that snipe theirself into death.
I am sure there are some situaions fear is as OP as RS in other situations. In a 2vs2 for example fear is one of the best ways to drain stamina. Talons and Enchase are unblockable CCs, too - that's right! But fear is the only hard CC that you HAVE TO break against good enemies. In Talons and Enchase you can just turn around and continue fighting (okay... you cannot run away - OMG).2 -
Milf_Hero✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
It's not that they can't be killed. That's not what this is about. People that play DKs have seriously mastered hyperbole.OK so the answer is to NERF DK's out of existence since you can not find a way to kill them. Whine, Whine, Whine!!!!! Will it ever stop?- We have NO ranged ability. (What's a bow? What's a staff? Derp derp derp.)
- We have NO gap closers. (What's shield charge? Critical charge? Derpy derpy doo!)
- We won't be able to tank in PvP! (WTF? Tank in PvP?? Are they taunting others players too? LMFAO)
They really do not have those things built into their class. its only when they use things every one else has available to them do they have a good gap closer, and ranged ability. So CLASS wise, they do not have those things. Unless its an ultimate like draconic leap or whatever it is but you cant cast it whenever like ambush, bolt escape, and whatever that spear charge thing Templars use.
Tanking in pvp. lol. eh. I have not heard people aiming to be tanks in pvp. Ive heard them talk about having insane dps and survivability at the same time. I don't think people aim to be just tanks in pvp, no matter what class you are.Edited by Milf_Hero on 10 December 2014 17:42You name it, and ill kill it.0 -
Kromus✭✭✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.
Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.
If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.
When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.
What do you think how Templar tank feels in such situation? Soon you pop Blazing Shield in order to have at least some chance to survive in mid of action, enemies see 'bulb' lighten up shouting 'shoot me, shoot me', while Scales will send a message 'stop dps for a moment'. Shield can go down in a second, with single shot, and that can't be said for Scales. Pure math says you can spam Scales for a minute or more, and you can't do that with Blazing Shield, not even remotely.
If you talon, cinder, banner someone and he move out of it you can use chains to bring him back in your puddle of doom, but if you are Templar you have no option but to charge, wait for a GCD (Focused charge ability is one (have two more) out of five known abilities with GCD) and than recast Spear shards for example, in hope target not moved already by the time spear animation land. Templar also don't have any roots like DK have.
On top of that, if DK needs to heal himself and have resources to do so, nothing will stop it except cc, but if Templar needs to do it most likely his heal will go to some other guy nearby (happens on regular basis), leaving you with same low health but without magicka invested in heal. Awesome, right?
Blazing Shield templars should not have much trouble with DKs, you might be doing it wrong if you are.
No, I don't have problems with DKs or any other class/build. Think I'm standing pretty strong in battles, but that's not the point and it seems we strayed a bit from topic, or at least in part of discussion regarding my comments.
One poster mentioned Blazing Shield, among some other things, as argument to justify Reflective Scales in current form so I compared effectiveness of both abilities and gave some additional comments.
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eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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I'm sorry that was not my intention. My intention was that I do just fine killing DK's on my nightblade. Entering into a Zerg isn't something any single person should be allowed to do. Whether it's possible or not on a nightblade is debatable and off topic.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Smart people target non DKs and that's a little bit of BS as far as I'm concerned. My comment was about killing DKs. I know how to get around RS, a lot of people either don't or can't be bothered and would rather snipe other classes.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
I'm not debating what DKs can or cannot do or even what I can or cannot do. They are the only class that has had a free pass at being completely immune to projectiles. Their RS only means that people target me for lethal arrow more since my class can't reflect it. I'm glad they are finally becoming mortal like the rest of us.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Okay....so what's the problem? Why can't DK's pick up a ranged weapon and stop crying? Is it because their entire build relies on standing there spamming one skill at a safe distance and not having to worry about it being countered?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Not exclusively, no. I also use restoration staff abilities instead of crying that I don't have heals like a templar.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
And yet I somehow manage just fine on my nightblade without reflective scales. Go figure. I guess it can be done without an easy mode, faceroll, i win button.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
So let me make sure I get this. DKs can only do close range damage, therefore they get an ability that makes them completely immune to all projectiles, because they for some reason shouldn't be required to use weapon abilities.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
But those are the same challenges every other class has.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I'm sure you're a great player and you will adapt. This isn't the end of the world like everyone is making it seem. That is all I am saying. There are other options.
I don't know if I'm a good player or not, but I will adapt. It's not "the end" for DK's. My concern is over how this particular change will change the landscape of pvp (pew pew stand offs) and how this further narrows down DKs into fewer and fewer builds. If we choose range we lose our class damagers, if we choose melee we suffer focus fire without executes or escapes.
Even those fighting for an RS nerf think the 4 hits is bogus. If they need to nerf it they need to do it right and this isn't it.
You can cast ranged class damagers at melee range, however you cannot cast melee class damagers at range. It only works one way.
If DKs have an unmitigated ability to completely reflect all projects back at the caster shouldn't the other classes all have a way to be immune to talons, lava whip, searing strike, fiery breath, stone fist, etc.? I mean it's fair right? We should be able to reflect all the nasty things you throw on us when you perma root us in place and hit us with all of your high damaging abilities. The fact that those that play your class still don't see this side to it is mind boggling given how well reported it is.
Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.
Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.
If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.
When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.
I assume by "Doing just fine" you are referring to the same scenario of entering a zerg and holding your own. Let me guess you use class skills to accomplish that right? Interesting...so the skills that allow you to successfully handle your own allow you to successfully handle your own. Thats some good stuff right there.
No one uses class skills exclusively.
We have been over this before. You never responded the last time. You could counter by using a build that doesn't play into his hands.
I know Sorcs can Bolt so I equip a gap closer
I know NB can stealth so I carry detect pots
I know DKs can reflect so I equip non projectiles only equip projectiles.
You said just earlier....eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »And yet I somehow manage just fine on my nightblade without reflective scales. Go figure. I guess it can be done without an easy mode, faceroll, i win button.
So what do you care whether they have it or not? You are doing just fine without it.
You made that comment in reference to my post about entering a zerg as a DK. That post had nothing to do with killing DKs with a NB. I even replied to your post saying "I assume by "Doing just fine" you are referring to the same scenario of entering a zerg and holding your own." to which you replied without protest of that assumption. Nor would the statement "I manage just fine on my nightblade killing DKs without reflective scales" even make any sense. So yeah we all know what you were referring to, there is no point in trying to change that after the fact. Trying to downgrade that statement to just you BSing doesn't exactly help your credibility either.
No, I have merely stated that it doesn't effect me specifically. What it does do is make me a target because anyone with an IQ above 80 can figure out to target the people without RS. I don't know if you are intentionally attempting to twist what I say or if you really just can't follow.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I know how to get around RS, a lot of people either don't or can't be bothered and would rather snipe other classes.
Ok so in this post you admit that you are smart enough to "get around RS" and that other people simply don't know how to get around it or can't be bothered. You have just admitted its a L2P issue. Thank you.
:trollin:2 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
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A zerg of good players no, a zerg of not good players yes. This is what every 1vX is. Problem is your newly revised statement makes absolutely no sense when you try to put it in context to where it was used. First excuse was you were just BSing, then it's "Oh I meant X". There is a good reason why your revised statement doesn't fit, because you need to take it back.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I'm sorry that was not my intention. My intention was that I do just fine killing DK's on my nightblade. Entering into a Zerg isn't something any single person should be allowed to do. Whether it's possible or not on a nightblade is debatable and off topic.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
No, I have merely stated that it doesn't effect me specifically. What it does do is make me a target because anyone with an IQ above 80 can figure out to target the people without RS. I don't know if you are intentionally attempting to twist what I say or if you really just can't follow.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I know how to get around RS, a lot of people either don't or can't be bothered and would rather snipe other classes.
Ok so in this post you admit that you are smart enough to "get around RS" and that other people simply don't know how to get around it or can't be bothered. You have just admitted its a L2P issue. Thank you.
I don't have to twist anything, you put it plainly. Yeah saying that you know how to get around RS and other people either don't know how or don't care is also to say that it doesn't effect you specifically. The problem is that is says a lot of other things...namely that it's a L2P issue and that RS is counterable.
Edited by Armitas on 10 December 2014 21:18Retired.
Nord mDK2 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Okay you clearly misunderstood me. Maybe I wasn't clear. Are we going to start a debate about semantics, or are you going to accept that there was a miscommunication and it should hopefully be clear now? Do you know what a straw man argument is?
A zerg of good players no, a zerg of not good players yes. This is what every 1vX is. Problem is your newly revised statement makes absolutely no sense when you try to put it in context to where it was used. First excuse was you were just BSing, then it's "Oh I meant X". There is a good reason why your revised statement doesn't fit, because you need to take it back.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I'm sorry that was not my intention. My intention was that I do just fine killing DK's on my nightblade. Entering into a Zerg isn't something any single person should be allowed to do. Whether it's possible or not on a nightblade is debatable and off topic.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
No, I have merely stated that it doesn't effect me specifically. What it does do is make me a target because anyone with an IQ above 80 can figure out to target the people without RS. I don't know if you are intentionally attempting to twist what I say or if you really just can't follow.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I know how to get around RS, a lot of people either don't or can't be bothered and would rather snipe other classes.
Ok so in this post you admit that you are smart enough to "get around RS" and that other people simply don't know how to get around it or can't be bothered. You have just admitted its a L2P issue. Thank you.
I don't have to twist anything, you put it plainly. Yeah saying that you know how to get around RS and other people either don't know how or don't care is also to say that it doesn't effect you specifically. The problem is that is says a lot of other things...namely that it's a L2P issue and that RS is counterable.:trollin:2 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Okay you clearly misunderstood me. Maybe I wasn't clear. Are we going to start a debate about semantics, or are you going to accept that there was a miscommunication and it should hopefully be clear now? Do you know what a straw man argument is?
Do you know what a strawman argument is? Semantics is regarding the meaning of a word or sentence none of which is contested right now in the first quote. What is being challenged is your revised statements and how it makes any sense in context of where they were used.Edited by Armitas on 10 December 2014 21:31Retired.
Nord mDK1 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Okay you clearly misunderstood me. Maybe I wasn't clear. Are we going to start a debate about semantics, or are you going to accept that there was a miscommunication and it should hopefully be clear now? Do you know what a straw man argument is?
Do you know what a strawman argument is? Semantics is regarding the meaning of a word or sentence none of which is contested right now in the first quote. What is being challenged is your revised statements and how it makes any sense in context of where they were used.
There you go champ. It doesn't in fact matter whether you wish to change the context of what I said. The fact of the matter is:
RS gives DKs an unfair immunity to projectiles that puts the burden of receiving those projectiles on others around them.
If you can somehow give me a reason why the above statement isn't true I'd love to hear it.
Edited by eventide03b14a_ESO on 10 December 2014 21:33:trollin:2 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »^?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Okay you clearly misunderstood me. Maybe I wasn't clear. Are we going to start a debate about semantics, or are you going to accept that there was a miscommunication and it should hopefully be clear now? Do you know what a straw man argument is?
Do you know what a strawman argument is? Semantics is regarding the meaning of a word or sentence none of which is contested right now in the first quote. What is being challenged is your revised statements and how it makes any sense in context of where they were used.
There you go champ. It doesn't in fact matter whether you wish to change the context of what I said. The fact of the matter is:
RS gives DKs an unfair immunity to projectiles that puts the burden of receiving those projectiles on others around them.
If you can somehow give me a reason why the above statement isn't true I'd love to hear it.
Wrong.A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.[1] To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.
The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.[2][3]
Taken from the same source as you. You should have read further. Do you need an example of what a real strawman is? Taking someones exact words, in the context they were used in, and taking them to the their literal conclusion is not a strawman.
Now shall I define hedging for you?
You show that your above statement is true. The burden of proof is yours for that not mine. Shall I define shifting the burden as well?Edited by Armitas on 10 December 2014 21:46Retired.
Nord mDK1 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Wow. You are still focusing on your misrepresentation of what I said (the strawman) and you continue to focus on that ("attacking it") rather than address the actual topic of this thread which RS.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »^?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Okay you clearly misunderstood me. Maybe I wasn't clear. Are we going to start a debate about semantics, or are you going to accept that there was a miscommunication and it should hopefully be clear now? Do you know what a straw man argument is?
Do you know what a strawman argument is? Semantics is regarding the meaning of a word or sentence none of which is contested right now in the first quote. What is being challenged is your revised statements and how it makes any sense in context of where they were used.
There you go champ. It doesn't in fact matter whether you wish to change the context of what I said. The fact of the matter is:
RS gives DKs an unfair immunity to projectiles that puts the burden of receiving those projectiles on others around them.
If you can somehow give me a reason why the above statement isn't true I'd love to hear it.
Wrong.
A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.[1] To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.
The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.[2][3]
Taken from the same source as you. You should have read further. Do you need an example of what a real strawman is? Taking someones exact words, in the context they were used in, and taking them to the their literal conclusion is not a strawman.
Now shall I define hedging for you?
The fact is that it doesn't matter a hill of beans what I can do with my class or whether you choose to misunderstand what I said or not because the topic is the RS which is not something that my class has. Now if you would please redirect to the actual defense of why you think that RS doesn't need to be toned down that would be great.
Here are your arguments as I understand them.- You have no class specific ranged abilities.
- You need RS so you can protect others in combat.
- You have no gap closers.
I have pointed out why all those are false now please defend the topics and stop worrying about whether you understood my context, which I have now repeatedly clarified.
Also, I would to add that it doesn't matter, since this happening whether you like it or not.
Edited by eventide03b14a_ESO on 10 December 2014 21:49:trollin:2 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Wow. You are still focusing on your misrepresentation of what I said (the strawman) and you continue to focus on that ("attacking it") rather than address the actual topic of this thread which RS.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »^?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Okay you clearly misunderstood me. Maybe I wasn't clear. Are we going to start a debate about semantics, or are you going to accept that there was a miscommunication and it should hopefully be clear now? Do you know what a straw man argument is?
Do you know what a strawman argument is? Semantics is regarding the meaning of a word or sentence none of which is contested right now in the first quote. What is being challenged is your revised statements and how it makes any sense in context of where they were used.
There you go champ. It doesn't in fact matter whether you wish to change the context of what I said. The fact of the matter is:
RS gives DKs an unfair immunity to projectiles that puts the burden of receiving those projectiles on others around them.
If you can somehow give me a reason why the above statement isn't true I'd love to hear it.
Wrong.
A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.[1] To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.
The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.[2][3]
Taken from the same source as you. You should have read further. Do you need an example of what a real strawman is? Taking someones exact words, in the context they were used in, and taking them to the their literal conclusion is not a strawman.
Now shall I define hedging for you?
The fact is that it doesn't matter a hill of beans what I can do with my class whether you choose to misunderstand what I said or not because the topic is the RS which is not something that my class has. Now if you would please redirect to the actual defense of why you think that RS doesn't need to be toned that would be great.
Here are your arguments as I understand them.- You have no class specific ranged abilities.
- You need RS so you can protect others in combat.
- You have no gap closers.
I have pointed out why all those are false now please defend the topics and stop worrying about whether you understood my context, which I have now repeatedly clarified.
Using your actual words is not a strawman. Your revised statement does not fit the context in which you used it. Anyone can take a look at your post, see the context, and see that you are hedging it. There is no illusion or ignorance to prey upon. You are still using strawman improperly.
Oh it does matter what you say, because what you say affects the credibility of your claim. When you say you are purposely BSing it matters, because no one knows when you are being truthful and when you are bsing.
Funny you should mention strawman in the same sentence and then compile that abomination of representation. Here is what I have said.My concern is over how this particular change will change the landscape of pvp (pew pew stand offs) and how this further narrows down DKs into fewer and fewer builds. If we choose range we lose our class damagers, if we choose melee we suffer focus fire without executes or escapes.
Even those fighting for an RS nerf think the 4 hits is bogus. If they need to nerf it they need to do it right and I don't believe this particular nerf is right for the pvp landscape or the DK as a class.Edited by Armitas on 10 December 2014 22:14Retired.
Nord mDK2 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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This entire thread has become pointless.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Wow. You are still focusing on your misrepresentation of what I said (the strawman) and you continue to focus on that ("attacking it") rather than address the actual topic of this thread which RS.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »^?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Okay you clearly misunderstood me. Maybe I wasn't clear. Are we going to start a debate about semantics, or are you going to accept that there was a miscommunication and it should hopefully be clear now? Do you know what a straw man argument is?
Do you know what a strawman argument is? Semantics is regarding the meaning of a word or sentence none of which is contested right now in the first quote. What is being challenged is your revised statements and how it makes any sense in context of where they were used.
There you go champ. It doesn't in fact matter whether you wish to change the context of what I said. The fact of the matter is:
RS gives DKs an unfair immunity to projectiles that puts the burden of receiving those projectiles on others around them.
If you can somehow give me a reason why the above statement isn't true I'd love to hear it.
Wrong.
A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.[1] To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.
The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.[2][3]
Taken from the same source as you. You should have read further. Do you need an example of what a real strawman is? Taking someones exact words, in the context they were used in, and taking them to the their literal conclusion is not a strawman.
Now shall I define hedging for you?
The fact is that it doesn't matter a hill of beans what I can do with my class whether you choose to misunderstand what I said or not because the topic is the RS which is not something that my class has. Now if you would please redirect to the actual defense of why you think that RS doesn't need to be toned that would be great.
Here are your arguments as I understand them.- You have no class specific ranged abilities.
- You need RS so you can protect others in combat.
- You have no gap closers.
I have pointed out why all those are false now please defend the topics and stop worrying about whether you understood my context, which I have now repeatedly clarified.
Using your actual words is not a strawman. Your revised statement does not fit the context in which you used it. Anyone can take a look at your post, see the context, and see that you are hedging it. There is no illusion or ignorance to prey upon. You are still using strawman improperly.
Oh it does matter what you say, because what you say affects the credibility of your claim. When you say you are purposely BSing it matters, because no one knows when you are being truthful and when you are bsing.
Funny you should mention strawman in the same sentence and then compile that abomination of representation.
I said we have no ranged class damagers. I challenge you to prove that wrong as you said did without embarrassing yourself.
I said that I was worried how the nerf to RS would change the dynamic of PvP in regard to the pew pew stand off. Not that RS protected people in combat.
We have no forward gap closers. No, just no @ fiery grip.
:trollin:2 -
Epsilon_Echo✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
This entire thread has become pointless.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Wow. You are still focusing on your misrepresentation of what I said (the strawman) and you continue to focus on that ("attacking it") rather than address the actual topic of this thread which RS.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »^?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Okay you clearly misunderstood me. Maybe I wasn't clear. Are we going to start a debate about semantics, or are you going to accept that there was a miscommunication and it should hopefully be clear now? Do you know what a straw man argument is?
Do you know what a strawman argument is? Semantics is regarding the meaning of a word or sentence none of which is contested right now in the first quote. What is being challenged is your revised statements and how it makes any sense in context of where they were used.
There you go champ. It doesn't in fact matter whether you wish to change the context of what I said. The fact of the matter is:
RS gives DKs an unfair immunity to projectiles that puts the burden of receiving those projectiles on others around them.
If you can somehow give me a reason why the above statement isn't true I'd love to hear it.
Wrong.
A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.[1] To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.
The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.[2][3]
Taken from the same source as you. You should have read further. Do you need an example of what a real strawman is? Taking someones exact words, in the context they were used in, and taking them to the their literal conclusion is not a strawman.
Now shall I define hedging for you?
The fact is that it doesn't matter a hill of beans what I can do with my class whether you choose to misunderstand what I said or not because the topic is the RS which is not something that my class has. Now if you would please redirect to the actual defense of why you think that RS doesn't need to be toned that would be great.
Here are your arguments as I understand them.- You have no class specific ranged abilities.
- You need RS so you can protect others in combat.
- You have no gap closers.
I have pointed out why all those are false now please defend the topics and stop worrying about whether you understood my context, which I have now repeatedly clarified.
Using your actual words is not a strawman. Your revised statement does not fit the context in which you used it. Anyone can take a look at your post, see the context, and see that you are hedging it. There is no illusion or ignorance to prey upon. You are still using strawman improperly.
Oh it does matter what you say, because what you say affects the credibility of your claim. When you say you are purposely BSing it matters, because no one knows when you are being truthful and when you are bsing.
Funny you should mention strawman in the same sentence and then compile that abomination of representation.
I said we have no ranged class damagers. I challenge you to prove that wrong as you said did without embarrassing yourself.
I said that I was worried how the nerf to RS would change the dynamic of PvP in regard to the pew pew stand off. Not that RS protected people in combat.
We have no forward gap closers. No, just no @ fiery grip.
Yes, but as an observer, I am still waiting for your response to the questions asked of you. I would like to see if you, as someone advocating a nerf, have any idea what you're talking about, or if some DK stole your sweetroll and now you have a bone to pick. In the absence of a response I think you can guess which option I have to default too.2 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
This entire thread has become pointless.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Wow. You are still focusing on your misrepresentation of what I said (the strawman) and you continue to focus on that ("attacking it") rather than address the actual topic of this thread which RS.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »^?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Okay you clearly misunderstood me. Maybe I wasn't clear. Are we going to start a debate about semantics, or are you going to accept that there was a miscommunication and it should hopefully be clear now? Do you know what a straw man argument is?
Do you know what a strawman argument is? Semantics is regarding the meaning of a word or sentence none of which is contested right now in the first quote. What is being challenged is your revised statements and how it makes any sense in context of where they were used.
There you go champ. It doesn't in fact matter whether you wish to change the context of what I said. The fact of the matter is:
RS gives DKs an unfair immunity to projectiles that puts the burden of receiving those projectiles on others around them.
If you can somehow give me a reason why the above statement isn't true I'd love to hear it.
Wrong.
A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.[1] To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.
The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.[2][3]
Taken from the same source as you. You should have read further. Do you need an example of what a real strawman is? Taking someones exact words, in the context they were used in, and taking them to the their literal conclusion is not a strawman.
Now shall I define hedging for you?
The fact is that it doesn't matter a hill of beans what I can do with my class whether you choose to misunderstand what I said or not because the topic is the RS which is not something that my class has. Now if you would please redirect to the actual defense of why you think that RS doesn't need to be toned that would be great.
Here are your arguments as I understand them.- You have no class specific ranged abilities.
- You need RS so you can protect others in combat.
- You have no gap closers.
I have pointed out why all those are false now please defend the topics and stop worrying about whether you understood my context, which I have now repeatedly clarified.
Using your actual words is not a strawman. Your revised statement does not fit the context in which you used it. Anyone can take a look at your post, see the context, and see that you are hedging it. There is no illusion or ignorance to prey upon. You are still using strawman improperly.
Oh it does matter what you say, because what you say affects the credibility of your claim. When you say you are purposely BSing it matters, because no one knows when you are being truthful and when you are bsing.
Funny you should mention strawman in the same sentence and then compile that abomination of representation.
I said we have no ranged class damagers. I challenge you to prove that wrong as you said did without embarrassing yourself.
I said that I was worried how the nerf to RS would change the dynamic of PvP in regard to the pew pew stand off. Not that RS protected people in combat.
We have no forward gap closers. No, just no @ fiery grip.
I have edited my post because those are points but those are not my point of being in this thread. I have requoted for you my exact point which I told you about several pages ago.Edited by Armitas on 10 December 2014 22:16Retired.
Nord mDK0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Can it be both?Epsilon_Echo wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
This entire thread has become pointless.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Wow. You are still focusing on your misrepresentation of what I said (the strawman) and you continue to focus on that ("attacking it") rather than address the actual topic of this thread which RS.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »^?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Okay you clearly misunderstood me. Maybe I wasn't clear. Are we going to start a debate about semantics, or are you going to accept that there was a miscommunication and it should hopefully be clear now? Do you know what a straw man argument is?
Do you know what a strawman argument is? Semantics is regarding the meaning of a word or sentence none of which is contested right now in the first quote. What is being challenged is your revised statements and how it makes any sense in context of where they were used.
There you go champ. It doesn't in fact matter whether you wish to change the context of what I said. The fact of the matter is:
RS gives DKs an unfair immunity to projectiles that puts the burden of receiving those projectiles on others around them.
If you can somehow give me a reason why the above statement isn't true I'd love to hear it.
Wrong.
A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.[1] To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.
The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.[2][3]
Taken from the same source as you. You should have read further. Do you need an example of what a real strawman is? Taking someones exact words, in the context they were used in, and taking them to the their literal conclusion is not a strawman.
Now shall I define hedging for you?
The fact is that it doesn't matter a hill of beans what I can do with my class whether you choose to misunderstand what I said or not because the topic is the RS which is not something that my class has. Now if you would please redirect to the actual defense of why you think that RS doesn't need to be toned that would be great.
Here are your arguments as I understand them.- You have no class specific ranged abilities.
- You need RS so you can protect others in combat.
- You have no gap closers.
I have pointed out why all those are false now please defend the topics and stop worrying about whether you understood my context, which I have now repeatedly clarified.
Using your actual words is not a strawman. Your revised statement does not fit the context in which you used it. Anyone can take a look at your post, see the context, and see that you are hedging it. There is no illusion or ignorance to prey upon. You are still using strawman improperly.
Oh it does matter what you say, because what you say affects the credibility of your claim. When you say you are purposely BSing it matters, because no one knows when you are being truthful and when you are bsing.
Funny you should mention strawman in the same sentence and then compile that abomination of representation.
I said we have no ranged class damagers. I challenge you to prove that wrong as you said did without embarrassing yourself.
I said that I was worried how the nerf to RS would change the dynamic of PvP in regard to the pew pew stand off. Not that RS protected people in combat.
We have no forward gap closers. No, just no @ fiery grip.
Yes, but as an observer, I am still waiting for your response to the questions asked of you. I would like to see if you, as someone advocating a nerf, have any idea what you're talking about, or if some DK stole your sweetroll and now you have a bone to pick. In the absence of a response I think you can guess which option I have to default too.
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eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I'm not the one nerfing your class. I hope this life changing event is something you can learn to cope with.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
This entire thread has become pointless.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Wow. You are still focusing on your misrepresentation of what I said (the strawman) and you continue to focus on that ("attacking it") rather than address the actual topic of this thread which RS.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »^?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Okay you clearly misunderstood me. Maybe I wasn't clear. Are we going to start a debate about semantics, or are you going to accept that there was a miscommunication and it should hopefully be clear now? Do you know what a straw man argument is?
Do you know what a strawman argument is? Semantics is regarding the meaning of a word or sentence none of which is contested right now in the first quote. What is being challenged is your revised statements and how it makes any sense in context of where they were used.
There you go champ. It doesn't in fact matter whether you wish to change the context of what I said. The fact of the matter is:
RS gives DKs an unfair immunity to projectiles that puts the burden of receiving those projectiles on others around them.
If you can somehow give me a reason why the above statement isn't true I'd love to hear it.
Wrong.
A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.[1] To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.
The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.[2][3]
Taken from the same source as you. You should have read further. Do you need an example of what a real strawman is? Taking someones exact words, in the context they were used in, and taking them to the their literal conclusion is not a strawman.
Now shall I define hedging for you?
The fact is that it doesn't matter a hill of beans what I can do with my class whether you choose to misunderstand what I said or not because the topic is the RS which is not something that my class has. Now if you would please redirect to the actual defense of why you think that RS doesn't need to be toned that would be great.
Here are your arguments as I understand them.- You have no class specific ranged abilities.
- You need RS so you can protect others in combat.
- You have no gap closers.
I have pointed out why all those are false now please defend the topics and stop worrying about whether you understood my context, which I have now repeatedly clarified.
Using your actual words is not a strawman. Your revised statement does not fit the context in which you used it. Anyone can take a look at your post, see the context, and see that you are hedging it. There is no illusion or ignorance to prey upon. You are still using strawman improperly.
Oh it does matter what you say, because what you say affects the credibility of your claim. When you say you are purposely BSing it matters, because no one knows when you are being truthful and when you are bsing.
Funny you should mention strawman in the same sentence and then compile that abomination of representation.
I said we have no ranged class damagers. I challenge you to prove that wrong as you said did without embarrassing yourself.
I said that I was worried how the nerf to RS would change the dynamic of PvP in regard to the pew pew stand off. Not that RS protected people in combat.
We have no forward gap closers. No, just no @ fiery grip.
I have edited my post because those are points but those are not my point of being in this thread. I have requoted for you my exact point which I told you about several pages ago.
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Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DK's whining about Fear need to learn how to play, just like they keep suggesting to people whining about RS.1 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »I'm not the one nerfing your class. I hope this life changing event is something you can learn to cope with.
No but you are pleading for it. You asked for my point, I gave it, and you responded with sarcasm? It suits you and should match your use of "BS" to make a point for a nice ensemble.Edited by Armitas on 10 December 2014 23:03Retired.
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Epsilon_Echo✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »DK's whining about Fear need to learn how to play, just like they keep suggesting to people whining about RS.
Who is complaining about fear? I do, usually in the form of a swear in TS, but not here.0