ZoS Why has this been ignored!? - Templar: Focused/Toppling Charge!

Lukeh Shadyvale

I've yet to see a response on this really disruptive ability!
The Toppling Charge (Focused Charge Morph) and not sure but possible Explosive Charge does this also seems to stun the Templar casting it just as much as the intended target!

The infuriating thing about it is you launch to attack which is the intended purposes sticking you in the fight and if they've broken free or absorbed the stun you're still stuck for 2-3 seconds like a tool, no exit, no escape, you can't put up shields, heal, bloke, weapon attack or ability attack you're dead still for a few seconds.

In PvP this causes a terrible issue in the fact that you can't use it in a fight as there is no use of an ability which stuns YOURSELF.

For those who have yet to see what I'm chatting about view the video below and pay attention to be bashing the 3rd ability button just after it finishes the spell and I'm doing nothing for a few seconds. Everyone keeps saying lag but as this is an issue dating back to release I call lies as every other ability works fine and you can see the latancy next to the FPS at the bottom left showing good ping.

It's 0:48 seconds long and I do the attack multiple times and repeat the actions so just keep watching after I do my toppling charge strike.

Click for video.


If possible can someone link me to a quote saying this is being fixed, or if it's working as intended!? If it is working as intended then what a terrible ability, launching you into a fight then stunning you.

deleted221205-002626

Lukeh Shadyvale wrote: »

I've yet to see a response on this really disruptive ability!
The Toppling Charge (Focused Charge Morph) and not sure but possible Explosive Charge does this also seems to stun the Templar casting it just as much as the intended target!

The infuriating thing about it is you launch to attack which is the intended purposes sticking you in the fight and if they've broken free or absorbed the stun you're still stuck for 2-3 seconds like a tool, no exit, no escape, you can't put up shields, heal, bloke, weapon attack or ability attack you're dead still for a few seconds.

In PvP this causes a terrible issue in the fact that you can't use it in a fight as there is no use of an ability which stuns YOURSELF.

For those who have yet to see what I'm chatting about view the video below and pay attention to be bashing the 3rd ability button just after it finishes the spell and I'm doing nothing for a few seconds. Everyone keeps saying lag but as this is an issue dating back to release I call lies as every other ability works fine and you can see the latancy next to the FPS at the bottom left showing good ping.

It's 0:48 seconds long and I do the attack multiple times and repeat the actions so just keep watching after I do my toppling charge strike.

Click for video.


If possible can someone link me to a quote saying this is being fixed, or if it's working as intended!? If it is working as intended then what a terrible ability, launching you into a fight then stunning you.

Are you sure its a stun? I always thought it was just the default delay between abilities but I'd be a liar if I said I didn't notice it.. Theres a good sec or two that you can't do anything after the charging attack which does somewhat defeat the purpose of it.

Evaflys

I have noticed this, there is a bit of a delay after using toppling/explosive charge. It reminded me of the time when biting jabs/puncturing sweep had that 1 second cooldown after it's use, unable to do any other skill afterwards. Luckily, that was fixed but now we have toppling charge that pretty much has the same issue.

I mainly only use this skill for pvp, and even then it's just my "get into the fight quickly" skill. What I do want fixed is the ridiculous animation bug where you get stuck in the charge animation for a good 30 seconds, unable to do anything. I believe this bug is also present with shield charge in the sword and shield line.

Lukeh Shadyvale

Evaflys wrote: »

I have noticed this, there is a bit of a delay after using toppling/explosive charge. It reminded me of the time when biting jabs/puncturing sweep had that 1 second cooldown after it's use, unable to do any other skill afterwards. Luckily, that was fixed but now we have toppling charge that pretty much has the same issue.

I mainly only use this skill for pvp, and even then it's just my "get into the fight quickly" skill. What I do want fixed is the ridiculous animation bug where you get stuck in the charge animation for a good 30 seconds, unable to do anything. I believe this bug is also present with shield charge in the sword and shield line.

That is just painful lag, not a bug just a lag. Depending on how bag the lag depends on how long you get stuck it happened JUST now as there are 2 huge groups one at Chim one at Ghartok, one Blue one Yellow and just being on the same server regardless of location just cause impossible fights. So everyone's resorted to zerging.

But no this inability to do anything after attacking is an actually ability bug.

Lettigall

It's very annoying, enemy gets on his feet and starts attacking you while all your skills are locked. Sometimes it feels like this skill is made to deliver you to enemy so he can kill you without trouble.

And stuck charge in animation is even more annoying bug, in PvP it means death.

Using Toppling charge in Cyrodiil is like lottery, you can't know what you get- CD for all your skills, stuck in animation or you'll be lucky if skill works as it intended.

I think almost everyone templar, who uses this skill, have reported it, but month after month zos don't give a ***......

The_Bommel

I´m annoyed by this delay too. I swapped it for Invasion a few times just to be able to actually attack after using the "gap closer", but sadly invasion does lower damage so I went back using Toppling Charge.

Lylith

i still have unallocated skill points on my lvl26 templar. looks like this skill won't be an option.

thanks for posting this info.

as you say, it needs to be fixed. templars can heal, yes, but their dps skills are less than optimal.

Pmarsico9

Here's the history behind this:

When the game hit early access then release, it was filled with bot farmers. Which were using a simple macro to tag nearly every dungeon boss using Templars with Focused Charge and then Biting Jabs Spam (before Biting Jabs healed, it was because the knockback worked on almost everything and allowed for damage to go out without taking any) on an auto-macro.

The GCD was inserted to break the macro, but it also effed over every Templar. As such, you are glued to either Critical Charge or Shield Charge as a gap closer.

Focused Charge, Eclipse, Backlash, the Dark Flare Morph, the Searing Light Morph, and Piercing Javelin are essentially terrible and the class has more dead abilities at this point that never serve any purpose at all.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

guybrushtb16_ESO

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Here's the history behind this:

When the game hit early access then release, it was filled with bot farmers. Which were using a simple macro to tag nearly every dungeon boss using Templars with Focused Charge and then Biting Jabs Spam (before Biting Jabs healed, it was because the knockback worked on almost everything and allowed for damage to go out without taking any) on an auto-macro.

The GCD was inserted to break the macro, but it also effed over every Templar. As such, you are glued to either Critical Charge or Shield Charge as a gap closer.

Focused Charge, Eclipse, Backlash, the Dark Flare Morph, the Searing Light Morph, and Piercing Javelin are essentially terrible and the class has more dead abilities at this point that never serve any purpose at all.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

I have often read that this change was allegedly done to somehow combat bots, but the one thing I could never understand was why they targetted focused charge only. If bots were an issue, wouldn't they just take 5 seconds to swap focused charge out for invasion/critical charge and continue running the same macro?

In any case, the gcd is terrible and effectively kills the skill for competitive play, and it doesn't have much going for it to begin with, due to generally being outclassed by invasion. There is still far too much useless junk in all the skill lines IMO, I for one hope they manage to fix some of that in 1.6.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

We agree that the post global cooldown on Focused Charge is a little too long right now. We do plan to reduce it so you can cast your next ability sooner after the charge is complete, in Update 6.

Lettigall

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We agree that the post global cooldown on Focused Charge is a little too long right now. We do plan to reduce it so you can cast your next ability sooner after the charge is complete, in Update 6.

Soooo for all this time you knew where's problem and for fix we need to wait for whenever this update 6 comes out??? You realize that with bow buff it's very serious issue now?

Fighting multiple enemies, while skills in CD after each charge, you know how hard it's is to survive? On each CD you take at least 1 snipe and can't do anything!!!

Latest when it should be fixed is 1.5.6 not 1.6!!!

Pmarsico9

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We agree that the post global cooldown on Focused Charge is a little too long right now. We do plan to reduce it so you can cast your next ability sooner after the charge is complete, in Update 6.

GCD's aren't supposed to exist in this game. You should put a GCD on heavy/light attacks and kill animation cancelling if you're going to implement them, not a niche gap closer.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Glad it is being addressed. But terrible that it went on for so long.

At the game's launch and for a long time afterwards, DKs were running around with spammable Talons that hit 6 people in a wide arc with heavy DoT and didn't even cost magicka if it didn't hit anyone... and ZOS was nerfing Templars. They seem seriously, almost comically out of touch with game balance, as the present poll on the boards about 'dominant class' clearly shows.

I recommend and look forward to the total removal of the GCD for this skill. If you feel the need to apply a GCD to anything in the future, you should be looking at Reflective Scales and Talons, not anything the Templars have.

BugCollector

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We agree that the post global cooldown on Focused Charge is a little too long right now. We do plan to reduce it so you can cast your next ability sooner after the charge is complete, in Update 6.

And please don't forget about this thread as well:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/136047/discussion-templars-dawns-wrath-skill-line#latest

ThatHappyCat

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We agree that the post global cooldown on Focused Charge is a little too long right now. We do plan to reduce it so you can cast your next ability sooner after the charge is complete, in Update 6.

At last! Thank you!

SoulScream

It is good news charge will be fix but wow that is really slow. I like to use it since it's magicka based while other charges are stam.

Joy_Division

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We agree that the post global cooldown on Focused Charge is a little too long right now. We do plan to reduce it so you can cast your next ability sooner after the charge is complete, in Update 6.

There should be NO global cooldown for this ability! There also should be NO delay in fixing something your company admits is wrong.

Natjur

I remember before ESO was released that they said there was going to be no Global cool downs, the only delay for casting skills was waiting is for animations and cast time if the skill have one.

But currently there are five skills with noticeable global cool downs and three of them are templar skills. Most classes can use animation canceling and chain instance cast skills one after another. Toppling Charge is not worth using at the moment. I wish they did not lie about not having global cool downs.

timidobserver

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We agree that the post global cooldown on Focused Charge is a little too long right now. We do plan to reduce it so you can cast your next ability sooner after the charge is complete, in Update 6.

GCD's aren't supposed to exist in this game. You should put a GCD on heavy/light attacks and kill animation cancelling if you're going to implement them, not a niche gap closer.

Apparent you don't understand. Templar are OP and need GCD on their abilities even if nobody else needs them.

tplink3r1

Solar Barrage has the same problem.

Cody

i have noticed it a few times.... was wondering why it was doing that.

Pmarsico9

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Solar Barrage has the same problem.

I tanked Vet Sewers last night and I use this ability on trash and it does indeed have a GCD on it. WTF?

Not to mention that the animation looks like you are farting out gold chili gas.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We agree that the post global cooldown on Focused Charge is a little too long right now. We do plan to reduce it so you can cast your next ability sooner after the charge is complete, in Update 6.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom please reconsider this approach. This is not a true solution. If we see "reduced gcd on charge by x amount or x percent, then we will know that ZOS has changed the "spirit" of this game dramatically.

This game was supposed to be about managing resource pools, not cooldowns that are arbitrarily placed on some abilities and not on others.

How about you give us a list of all abilities with global cooldowns and we will just avoid those abilities and the classes that are unfortunately cursed by them.

For Example:
There is no GCD on DK lava whip. If there is, it is barely there. A DK can use invasion and get 3 lava whips off before a templar can recover from his post charge stupor.

If cooldowns really do exist on invasion and lava whip, then make the cooldowns on toppling charge and biting jabs identical.

Here are the two best solutions:

1. Remove all global cooldowns from the game so we are only limited by our resource pools as was originally intended in this game.

2. Put the global cooldown info in the tooltip so that we may theorycraft accordingly.


Cooldowns, if they must exist at all, are just as important as cast times. They should be in the tooltip and NOT be a big secret.

Dazmilan09

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ I certainly hope "reducing" it means getting rid of any gcd all together. This is a live action game and should have zero gcd whatsoever. Please consider this change as a gcd on any abilities in a game like this truly ruins the live action feel this game should have. Take away all gcd's please.

guybrushtb16_ESO

Personally I'm somewhat skeptical about the wording on this. It reminds me a bit how they agreed that "magelight is slightly too annoying" but then didn't really change it noticeably.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Or when they admitted they had heard 'clear and loud' about Templars' magicka management... that was in June... but did absolutely nothing about it.

Rainingblood

Disappointed it's taken so long to fix this broken ability, but happy there has finally been a response and a fix is in the works. A fail rework to combat botting if you ask me....

Please completely remove any gcd from this ability! And please do it before update 6... It's been unusable for far too long as it is.

Or if that isn't possible, make the templar completely immune to any damage while recovering full magicka during the stun effect...

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Please remove GCD on ALL templar abilities.

Solar barrage as well.

Natjur

Global cool downs are easy to see as you can not cancel their animation. Toppling Charge stands out like a sore toe cause its GCD is LONGER then it animation.

I know they want to fix canceling animation on skills, but they have only added GCD to a very few skills. Which is odd that they did it at all! All skills with GCD I refuse to load as its just nerfing yourself.

Its odd that two classes appear to have NO skills with GCD (I have one of each class and could cancel the animation most skills, only five skills had GCD that stood out)

david.haypreub18_ESO

DragonKnights are the one class that actually has no cast times at all... all their skills are instant.

And yet ZOS introduces GCDs for Templar skills, LOL. They really just have no idea how to balance classes.

Ifthir_ESO

Why on earth would some skills have Global Cooldown and not others?

Cooldown on charge but not on bat swarm? LMAO seriously you can't make this up.