So is the Templar class really that bad?

Artemiisia

...and im just messing with you

liquid_wolf

Artemiisia wrote: »

lol Liquid you are epic, so you build in total are 1.5, where others only be able to have a total of 1.

3 half equal 1.5

Totally. My bars have double the slots for skills, and I can hold four weapons too.

I just stomp through monsters in those dungeons so hard they start leaving loot at the door for me.

NerfEverything wrote: »

Literally every other class...
and they can do it faster, using less magika
Have you played any of the other classes?

I am every other class.
I stealth better than a nightblade.
Cast better than a sorcerer.
Bat swarm better than a Dragon Knight.

Honestly... why be anything but a templar?

RangerChad

Right now the ONLY thing that is unfortunate about Templar is the lack of Magicka replenishing. I can deal with their DPS, it's fine as it is. I just would like to see a little more sustain from Templar. Other than that, it's a good fun class to play around with.

MeowGinger

liquid_wolf wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

lol Liquid you are epic, so you build in total are 1.5, where others only be able to have a total of 1.

3 half equal 1.5

Totally. My bars have double the slots for skills, and I can hold four weapons too.

I just stomp through monsters in those dungeons so hard they start leaving loot at the door for me.

NerfEverything wrote: »

Literally every other class...
and they can do it faster, using less magika
Have you played any of the other classes?

I am every other class.
I stealth better than a nightblade.
Cast better than a sorcerer.
Bat swarm better than a Dragon Knight.

Honestly... why be anything but a templar?

Please show us your build. Esohead's skill calculator is good: esohead.com/calculator/skills

Vunter

Templars are powerful, don't listen some people in this forum that think things didn't change from the release of the game.

NerfEverything

No one is saying that templars aren't powerful. But if you were to rank the 4 classes by power, templar would be the last one...

Azzuria

My best friend and I play our Templars together. Mine is a Caster; Light Armor Inferno Staff / Resto Staff, hybid DPS / Healer. Hers is a Heavy Armor, 2-Hand DPS / Sword-n-Board Tank.

We slaughter stuff together and neither one of us has much issue with the solo things, either. Mannimarco was a push over.

Mopar63

NerfEverything wrote: »

No one is saying that templars aren't powerful. But if you were to rank the 4 classes by power, templar would be the last one...

So what? Also by what criteria? As healers the Templars win ever time. As tanks the Templar is near the top in every critera. Not all classes SHOULD be able to throw the same DPS.

I am playing a Paladin build Templar, traditional Paladin as in geared toward sword and board with a single heal and a single magic offensive spell and everything else is in weapons, armor and fighters guild to take on undead and deadra, the character is a BLAST to play...

MeowGinger

Mopar63 wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

No one is saying that templars aren't powerful. But if you were to rank the 4 classes by power, templar would be the last one...

As healers the Templars win ever time. As tanks the Templar is near the top in every critera. Not all classes SHOULD be able to throw the same DPS.

Says who (or more aptly, who can prove this)? Or to quote you, "Also by what criteria?"

liquid_wolf

MeowGinger wrote: »

Please show us your build. Esohead's skill calculator is good: esohead.com/calculator/skills

The site is somewhat limited on what I can put in there... but this comes close. Mind you... I started the game with most of this at level 1, and unlocked the third and fourth weapon bars later.

You wouldn't believe how long it takes me to switch out of gear, though...

Link

Kaynehusky

I don't know why people are saying Templar is bad DPS... My Templar STEAMROLLS enemies. I wear a dress and I can take on groups of four or five same level and even a couple above without breaking a sweat. I don't even have blazing shield.

MeowGinger

liquid_wolf wrote: »

MeowGinger wrote: »

Please show us your build. Esohead's skill calculator is good: esohead.com/calculator/skills

The site is somewhat limited on what I can put in there... but this comes close. Mind you... I started the game with most of this at level 1, and unlocked the third and fourth weapon bars later.

You wouldn't believe how long it takes me to switch out of gear, though...

Link

So you decided to put on a vampire bar and werewolf bar.

Strangely, I don't see a single templar ability on either. And for whatever reason, you have destro abilities on the same bars as a two-handed ability and resto ability?

Now I'm pretty sure you've just been trolling the entire thread.

david.haypreub18_ESO

There seems to be a pretty big split on opinions in this thread.

Those who are doing solo PvE tend to think the Templars are great.

Those who are doing Trials or PvP tend to stress the lack of mana management/sustain and the fact that other classes can do most of the things the Templars can, just better (the exception being healing).

That about it?

vyndral13preub18_ESO

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

There seems to be a pretty big split on opinions in this thread.

Those who are doing solo PvE tend to think the Templars are great.

Those who are doing Trials or PvP tend to stress the lack of mana management/sustain and the fact that other classes can do most of the things the Templars can, just better (the exception being healing).

That about it?

You forgot the split in pvp too. Those that use sun shield say they kick bootay. Those that don't say they are gimped little targets limping around the field.

MeowGinger

Most people seem to be smart enough to get out of range when they see sun shield (and smart enough not to feed it). As much as I hate to put it this way, feeding and getting hit by sun shield is a "L2P" issue. The only way it isn't avoidable is if someone's in a zergball where spells are flying everywhere, or if someone panics or runs out of resources and can't run/dodge roll away in time.

I'd expect sun shield to be nerfed again (or rather, I expect the 1.3.3 buff to be reversed). Soon we'll see threads about how sun shield is OP, calling for nerfs, now that the magicka regen debuff is gone. If you're clever about your resources, you can recast it repeatedly without resetting the damage taken. This seems more of an exploit than anything.

technohic

Bad? No
The best? No

But I will say I have 2 different builds I want to try which should work fine and have tried several others that did work fine and if it weren't for versatility of the class and being able to try different things, I probably would have left this game long ago, if I even would have given it a shot. Now, if you want to top the PvE leaderboards, I can't help you there as I have no idea. And as far as PvP goes, there are gvoing to be certain builds that are better as an individual but I find Templars have a LOT to offer a group there.

Bottom line is, if you want to be the best, well you're going to have to give up on being original and go roll whatever the best might be. If you just want to be passable to where you have fun and can do what you need to do, this game has more ways than most out there on the market to do it your way. It's not perfect, but nothing ever will be.

Skafsgaard

Yes, I lolled pretty hard at the guy who said he runs in spamming solar barrage and 3-4 mobs dies.. and therefore templars are fine.. just wow

liquid_wolf

MeowGinger wrote: »

So you decided to put on a vampire bar and werewolf bar.

Strangely, I don't see a single templar ability on either. And for whatever reason, you have destro abilities on the same bars as a two-handed ability and resto ability?

Now I'm pretty sure you've just been trolling the entire thread.

Don't forget the 156 pieces of armor I have to wear... That takes some effort.

The templar abilities are on my third and fourth bars.

Thechemicals

MeowGinger wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

MeowGinger wrote: »

1. They were significantly nerfed at least twice (once in beta, and again in May).

2. They are still weaker in terms of dps than the other three classes, except for maybe nightblades.

3. They still have poor magicka management compared to the other three classes.

But, as you can see in the Developer Discussion subforum, ZOS has been addressing this and improving templars so that they are brought more in line with the other three classes.

1. The beta nerf was done for a good reason and im glad it was removed because the moans and tears would have been non-stop on the forums. The may nerf was not significant after the change...after the change.

2. Nightblades have weak dps....ill let someone else pick this apart. Btw, did you ever notice that Templar has an entire healing tree of skills? They weren't meant to be exclusive dps otherwise those heal skills would have dps effects. Also, if you look at dawns wrath tree....3 of the 5 skills are counter damage, which isn't recorded on dps addons so who is to say our dps is weak?

3. This is so easily bypassed with well thought out gear builds and skills.

1. How so? Templars have some of the most expensive skills in the game. They were probably made so expensive due to the passive in the first place, as skill costs were not decreased to make up for it. Additionally, I could argue (since you seem to be arguing that templars are intended as healers, not as dps) that templars should have such a passive because they are healers.

2. Having a healing tree unique to a class does not justify substandard dps. This is your opinion. If this is the logic behind justifying lower damage output, maybe DKs should have poor dps because their class skills (heavy on CCs, etc) are better suited for tanking, including 1 skill line that is almost exclusively for support (earthen heart). Maybe sorcs should have poor dps because they have an escape and can have up to two pets (including restoring twilight, and clannfear the tank). Do you see how your logic is flawed? Additionally, any class can heal. Maybe your logic would make some sense... if starting players had any idea that classes were meant to fit into certain roles instead of "play as you want" (= any role viable and comparable to other classes), and if there was no resto staff in game.

3. Of course it is. As I said, however, templars have some of the most expensive skills in the game, and they should not have to go above and beyond what any other class has to do to be on par with those other classes. Other classes have good/okay magicka management, and can make that even better with gear or instead focus on increasing damage or survivability. Templars also have no magicka recovery skills that even offset the cost of (break even with) the skill used. The only viable skill is equilibrium (mage's guild), but you'd have to be willing to risk one/two-hit death if you're going to be relying on that ability against bosses or in PvP.


Edit: As a side note, I'm happy with how my templar fares now due to the changes made in 1.3.3. I feel that my magicka management is now on par with that of the other classes... unless, maybe, they happen to be using the same gear setup as I am, since that would still leave the templar behind the others. I haven't PvPed since the patch so I don't know.

I also have a foreboding feeling that the main gear sets I'm using will be nerfed anyway.

1. It is very obvious to me that Templar using the beta buff would use direct heals for a lifetime without any restriction. Add some armor that's light and cost reduction and you have infinite heal Templar......oh and you want him to dps as good as the other classes too right? Sure lets throw that in there too lol. Come on its pretty clear Templar is a heal based class with some very cerebral counter skills. Stop comparing him to other classes and their dps.

2. Um yes it does. That's an entire tree of healing and passives for healing and a healing ultimate.....as in 5 +1 less skills than every other class. Show me a class tree that has zero dps/damage skills in it. I can show you one- Templar.

3. Again...this topic is easily bypassed by well thought out gear and cost reduction builds and skills. If you add better resource management then youll have the same issue as #1--- infinity healer.....and lets not forget you and others want Templar to also have equal dps. What is really going on? Am I the only one that sees this? I must be crazy.

*Edited to also have a sidenote:
I have been a Templar since release. You can find my posts from way back showing people how to play Templar. I said it before and I say it now, Templar does not need a buff lol. They are a pro class.

Skafsgaard

liquid_wolf wrote: »

MeowGinger wrote: »

So you decided to put on a vampire bar and werewolf bar.

Strangely, I don't see a single templar ability on either. And for whatever reason, you have destro abilities on the same bars as a two-handed ability and resto ability?

Now I'm pretty sure you've just been trolling the entire thread.

Don't forget the 156 pieces of armor I have to wear... That takes some effort.

The templar abilities are on my third and fourth bars.

Sounds cool - are you mostly using your 6th or 9th class skill lines? I mean I think its number 4 in line 6 that gives a toggle to become meridia and make light pewpew laz0rZ!22

liquid_wolf

Skafsgaard wrote: »

Sounds cool - are you mostly using your 6th or 9th class skill lines? I mean I think its number 4 in line 6 that gives a toggle to become meridia and make light pewpew laz0rZ!22

Nah man... haven't unlocked it yet. This patch and last I spent the entire time one-man nuking keeps in Cyrodiil. Must have made it to like 10th rank emperor.

Since 1.3 it looks like more templars are on the field, so I'll probably take this time to go unlock those.

Skafsgaard

Yes, hurry I can recommend to at least check it out - kinda fun to watch the punies flee from the HUGE godlike avatar exploding light all over the place and killing zerg upon zerg! it's pretty fun, I even think it has a morph to throw enemy keeps into Coldhabour, but I took the other to make allies within Shield of Light (1000000m radius) to take 10000000000% healing increase, seemed a little gimmicky and situational but still pretty dope.

JackDaniell

Templar is just as good as any class, maybe even better. Classes aren't imbalanced, in fact I have a theory.

DK is the easiest class to play well = the thought that DK is OP.
Templar is the hardest class to play well = Templars are weak.

Templar is an awesome class, but unlike a DK it is not so obvious what build and synergies you should use. A DK skill bar is complete to fight any opponent with the standard DK meta builds, where as a Templar requires a little bit more thought and creativity.

Something that has helped me play the Templar to much more potential: "If it isn't working, I'm probably trying to do it the wrong way."

Being a Templar is like being the kid who takes more time to learn things in class. When your young and fresh things are really hard for you, much harder than you classmates who rolled DK. But once you graduate, you learn that all your hard work has made you into something so much stronger than your classmates, and now they are envious of you. Everyone knows that only Templars make it to University.

AlexDougherty

Elyna wrote: »

I heard a bunch of people saying the Templar class was killed by Zenimax. Did they really get nerfed that hard or was it just blown out of proportion?

Blown out of proportion, I play a Templar, it's still a very good class.

timidobserver

The amount of people saying that Templar is just as good as any other class is surprising. Outside of PVP, the only thing Templar excels at is healing.

There is no reason to desire a Templar dps in your group. God forbid 2 Templar dps in your group given that only one can use POL which accounts for a large amount of dps in most Temp dps builds.

It is not even all about the dps. Lackluster dps would be okay if we had the utility to back it up. We have no group utility when compared to Sorc negate and Nb veil of blades.

Some will say "Why do you need to dps, why you no just heal." 75% of a trials group consists of DPS. Around 17% of the group is heals.

Devlinne

This is the best fed troll thread EVER.

Elyna

Devlinne wrote: »

This is the best fed troll thread EVER.

I'm trolling? I was just genuinely curious. I've been gone for a couple of months and I wanted to see how things have changed (or not changed)

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

Cyhawk wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Cyhawk wrote: »

Besides, most DPS abilities are weapon abilities not class abilities.

...assuming you ignore Puncturing Strikes, Silver Shards, several Ultimates... ;-)

Puncturing sweep is horrible for PvP since its a channeled ability and eats a lot of mana. Yeah it works and has uses but its not spammable like say, Impulse. Doing so will get you killed very quickly. Silver shards and guild abilities fall into the 'weapon abilities' category meaning universal, so not unique to Templars which is all the really matters when discussing a specific class

biting jabbs ruins people, its strong and the move i easily am most frustrated going up against; its the only move that can crit through impen set that I know of. I love my templar, I was thinking of rolling a nightblade for ganking but realized I can do crazy burst damage on single target when i get the drop on them. often can kill before they can even respond so there is no point in going NB at this point for me.

Skafsgaard

puncturing sweeps isnt uselss. what it does for me, saves me a self heal on primary bar. Charge into some ppl, hit blazing shield and spam puncturing sweeps.

(i have magicka enough to cast at least 8 times, not counting recovery at which im softcapped).

So what happens is, that they dmg ur shield - it explodes and gives them damage. You take minor damage in between shields which is healed through with sweeps. I like sweeps in this setup, dmg+heal and heal is enough with shield up. I have sustain enough to fight 3-4 ppl. And I didnt even try (set wise).

guybrushtb16_ESO

My personal gripe is that templars seem to get almost no strong synergy effects from their passives, compared to most other classes.

Dragonknight is the most noteworthy here, World in Flames, Kindling and Battle Roar are extremely strong in their own right, and you practicaly get them just for being a DK. Nightblades, despite somewhat weaker class skills, have awesome synergies as well, 30% better potions (very nice for sustained encounters) permanent crit damage bonus, bonus magicka/health and stam recovery, all either free or for just slotting one skill you'd want anyway.

Templar on the other hand, gets few actually useful passives for anything outside their respective skill lines. Aaedric spear is almost all spear only, except weapon damage (which is subject to softcap), some light cost reduction in dawn's wrath and Restoring Light is "while using Restoring Light abilities" exclusively. Even in a healer role, you'll often want to use Restoration Staff skills as your bread and butter heals, and you don't get any added synergy for being a templar there.