So is the Templar class really that bad?

semp3rfi

I do notice our single target dps isnt up there with the others, however I have had great success coordinating a burst burn with group members as I throw on Power of the light.

Havent got to trials yet but in dungeons I get some large damage done by leaching the other classes dps through power of the light. And now with my new and improved mana regen, power of the light is going on at every oppurtunity

kitsinni

Templars/Nightblades the two best kept secrets in ESO .. I mean they are both super under powered keep buffing us!

Durham

nerrollus wrote: »

I stopped playing my Templar and started a DK until they get things balanced because they're worthless in PvP other than healing.

You have no clue watch the 100k duels ... Temp beats all ! In pvp a very poweful class...

DarkAedin

FlinkeKlinge wrote: »

Templars are fine.
Actually more then that, with the right build they are beasts.
Solo World Bosses: Check
Solo Public Dungeons: Check
Solo Dolmens: Check
Viability in 1v1 PvP : Check
Viability in large scale PvP: Check

this is all true, however this is largely due to the defensive and healing abilities that any Templar build can bring to the table, not the dps.

the issue templars have is single target dps. (aoe dps is fine, blazing spear + w/e u want can allow u to hit over 4k, i do it as a stamina spec with ease, ive even hit 6k pre 1.3 using orbs - stamina spec)

- the additional dmg from aedric spear tree passive is laughable, at 4%, it doesnt compare to crit (nb), igneous weapons/+fire dmg (dk), surge (sorc)
-no class finisher/execution
-as a stamina user, there is no assistance for ultimate generation or ultimate cost reduction in class passives
-sorc has best ultimate cost reduction, DK and NB standard/veil is 100 ultimate cost cheaper then Nova/solar - aedric spear ultimate is not considered here b/c its dps is not on par with solar/standard/veil - ie cast it and let it add 200+ dps to ur overall dmg and the ability to keep ultimate up an entire boss fight and use this as a buff to ur normal sustained dps

imho this can be a slippery slope, with the addition of champion system (ability to better focus your character with passives) and spellcrafting, templars of any build may be extremely overpowered, adding on par sustainable dps could make us way too powerful.
my biggest issue, personally, is that i feel that as a templar dps, i am not a true dps, i am a support dps, but in trials *as of now* there is no need for support/support is not enough (this may be untrue come 4 man trials), this is why i shine in small group/solo content but fall to the wayside in trials.
(kinda makes me wish a bit for a controller type addition like DCUO has)

Durham

TaffyIX wrote: »

Elyna wrote: »

TaffyIX wrote: »

He he, my Templar is fine

What weapon do you use?

I'll admit whilst in Cyrodiil I use 2 x Resto staves, however in PvE DW.

It doesn't really make much of a difference to my build which weapon I use(other than 10% extra damage from Resto), as I only use class skills for my main 'dps/solo' bar.

Yes in PVP its carry a stick or lose viability ...

Citidel

As a pvp healing Templar I've been enjoying the changes to sun shield to feel all tanky till my mana runs dry or I get negated.

I am by no means a great Templar player nor am I looking to exploit the class to its highest potential. I main heal and have a biting jabs/defensive bar. My goal is to survive long enough to give the DPS time to kill whatever is attacking me or keep what is in my sights off balance long enough to take to down chunk by chunk.

I had a back and forth with another player on a resource tower where we both realized we wouldn't win the 1v1 and it would go on till either of us got friends... We stopped waved and I played my lute till I felt it was time to die and I jumped to the 2nd floor to poke some people.

The class can be "op" in the right hands but as it stands you can't cookie cutter a Templar and have an I win rotation.

Blade_07

Elyna wrote: »

I heard a bunch of people saying the Templar class was killed by Zenimax. Did they really get nerfed that hard or was it just blown out of proportion?

I dont know about this but I LOVE my Templar!!! Did NB 1st and I love my templar way more.

UrQuan

I can't really say for endgame (I haven't taken any of my templars to VR yet) or PVP (I do very little of it), but for leveling in PVE Templars are the easiest to use IMO. The Reflective Light morph of Sun Fire lets you mow down groups of up to 3 mobs before they can get to you. As long as you can manage your magicka (this is the hardest thing about a Templar) this alone makes most sub-VR PVE content a breeze.

gurluasb16_ESO

Templars used to be much worse, at least they got some buffs.

Thechemicals

Durham wrote: »

TaffyIX wrote: »

Elyna wrote: »

TaffyIX wrote: »

He he, my Templar is fine

What weapon do you use?

I'll admit whilst in Cyrodiil I use 2 x Resto staves, however in PvE DW.

It doesn't really make much of a difference to my build which weapon I use(other than 10% extra damage from Resto), as I only use class skills for my main 'dps/solo' bar.

Yes in PVP its carry a stick or lose viability ...

Ive seen some sick 2h/1h players.

Seravi

I have a templar I started a few weeks ago and she kicks some butt! I am usually leading the pack into dungeons. I tend to find some awesome builds and then research each ability. I end up trying everything the game offers for what I am trying to play and then when I find what I like, I respec and use the best of all I tried. I set up one character the way "others" in my guild said it should be done and honestly I don't enjoy playing her. I just did a respec on her at V1 level with the gold change this week to see if I could salvage the character and learn to love her.

MeowGinger

1. They were significantly nerfed at least twice (once in beta, and again in May).
= Fact

2. They are still weaker in terms of dps than the other three classes, except for maybe nightblades.
= questionable? -- if you think I'm wrong, please show me a video, I'd love to see it. Templars make great "anti-dps" with blinding flashes and unstable core, but somehow I don't see many templars playing the dps role in trials.

3. They still have poor magicka management compared to the other three classes.
= questionable? -- other classes seem to outlast templars in terms of magicka management. Everything else equal (gear, magicka & recovery), this should not be the case. I'd love to see a video of anyone proving me wrong.


Templars have been buffed over the past couple of months. As you can see in the Developer Discussion subforum, ZOS has been addressing this and improving templars so that they are brought more in line with the other three classes.

Kreetar

I thought that Templar was one of the strongest...

kewl

This guy seems to be doing a good job with his Templar.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvZ93CA73i9V7n4c-Jd6-iA

Thechemicals

MeowGinger wrote: »

1. They were significantly nerfed at least twice (once in beta, and again in May).

2. They are still weaker in terms of dps than the other three classes, except for maybe nightblades.

3. They still have poor magicka management compared to the other three classes.

But, as you can see in the Developer Discussion subforum, ZOS has been addressing this and improving templars so that they are brought more in line with the other three classes.

1. The beta nerf was done for a good reason and im glad it was removed because the moans and tears would have been non-stop on the forums. The may nerf was not significant after the change...after the change.

2. Nightblades have weak dps....ill let someone else pick this apart. Btw, did you ever notice that Templar has an entire healing tree of skills? They weren't meant to be exclusive dps otherwise those heal skills would have dps effects. Also, if you look at dawns wrath tree....3 of the 5 skills are counter damage, which isn't recorded on dps addons so who is to say our dps is weak?

3. This is so easily bypassed with well thought out gear builds and skills.

falcuk

Ive been playing an NB, its my first character, currently level 37, and ive found it a bit underwhelming so far, i mainly solo pve and have been trying some pvp, i primarily run a bow build with a dw backup build.

I like the idea of a Paladin type character though. I was thinking Redguard with Sword and Board in full Heavy armour, possibly a 2h as backup, how effective would this be for PVP and PVE though?

semp3rfi

falcuk wrote: »

Ive been playing an NB, its my first character, currently level 37, and ive found it a bit underwhelming so far, i mainly solo pve and have been trying some pvp, i primarily run a bow build with a dw backup build.

I like the idea of a Paladin type character though. I was thinking Redguard with Sword and Board in full Heavy armour, possibly a 2h as backup, how effective would this be for PVP and PVE though?

My templar is sword and board and it works really well thus far, very beefy with strong aoe management.

My alt night blade i built as a dark templar and plays very similar, but its tankyness comes from doing huge damage, killing blows and life leaching.

Both are great fun

timidobserver

Thechemicals wrote: »

MeowGinger wrote: »

1. They were significantly nerfed at least twice (once in beta, and again in May).

2. They are still weaker in terms of dps than the other three classes, except for maybe nightblades.

3. They still have poor magicka management compared to the other three classes.

But, as you can see in the Developer Discussion subforum, ZOS has been addressing this and improving templars so that they are brought more in line with the other three classes.

1. The beta nerf was done for a good reason and im glad it was removed because the moans and tears would have been non-stop on the forums. The may nerf was not significant after the change...after the change.

2. Nightblades have weak dps....ill let someone else pick this apart. Btw, did you ever notice that Templar has an entire healing tree of skills? They weren't meant to be exclusive dps otherwise those heal skills would have dps effects. Also, if you look at dawns wrath tree....3 of the 5 skills are counter damage, which isn't recorded on dps addons so who is to say our dps is weak?

3. This is so easily bypassed with well thought out gear builds and skills.

On number 2:
Excelling at healing is not a good justification for being garbage at everything else.

Trials group run with 2 healers, 1 tank, and 9 dps.

Templar doesn't need to be best DPS in the game, but they do need to be viable enough fill some of the 9 DPS slots in competitive group.

Armitas

I suppose this is as good a place as any to ask this.

What should I do to counter a 4 chain of biting jabs? On several occasions I have been hit by a 4 chain of biting jabs (actually 4 successive casts, not 1 cast with 4 hits) for over 800 Damage each cast. It's typically done as a finisher when I am at half health for the crit bonus. While under the biting jab chain I am unable to use GDB or even an ultimate. It doesn't seem like I am able to cast anything while under the chain.

Any advice? (Note: my blocking stamina is already nuked by the 4 hit per cast) Much appreciated, @ me as the thread seems to have died down.

jalisar63b14_ESO

If you are unable to play the Templar effectively, be it in pve or pvp, group or solo (shy of the trials, as my opinion is not yet defined) then it is not the class that is having the problem.

Will you meet the occasional group of players that give you a solid run? sure... Will there even be the solo fight every so often where you have to actually think or even where dispite all you do.. you die? Yep. BUT if you show me 1 single person, in this or any other game, who claims that they never loose and fight and they are so awesome they can take on 5 people and always prevail.. Then I will show you a player who is relying on broken and knowingly using skills that are WAY over powered unintentionally in the game mechanics, (thus making them by their own use of such tactics unskilled) or a person who lies like a rug.

Every class is viable and playable if you have the skills as a player. Well I'm not gonna play my Templar.. i'm playing my (incert the OP class) until this is balanced.. LOL

I have had so many people tell me how crappy templar's are... How terrible DW is.. how useless Bows are.. Aight.. I have zero issues pve or pvp.. and when I do have an issue.. it wasnt the class It was me making a mistake or being too slow or too fast. I cant speak to how templars are always with a group mind you.. I am solo 90% of my gaming time.

Sheaden

nerrollus wrote: »

I stopped playing my Templar and started a DK until they get things balanced because they're worthless in PvP other than healing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiAZahhrVbM#t=225

Skip to 3:45 of the video to see the Final round between a well known Dragonknight PVPer who was the odds on favorite to win against a Templar challenger.

FYI A templar won the 100k dueling tournament... I think it's more of a learn to play issue than a class problem. Templar as showcased in the video is extremely viable in pvp. The video highlights the Templars ability to match up 1v1 against a stacked dragonknight who is a respected pvp personality in the youtube community.

Templars are FAR from worthless in pvp if played correctly.

They could use some help in the DPS department in PVE perhaps but they have more than enough to be effective player killers.

timidobserver

@‌
@Sheaden‌
That was not the final round. The Templar in that video did not win. A Sorc won. Sypher only recorded his fights. Just sayin....

maxilaub17_ESO

Elyna wrote: »

I heard a bunch of people saying the Templar class was killed by Zenimax. Did they really get nerfed that hard or was it just blown out of proportion?

You heard totally wrong, overall and in PvP Templar is the best class in the game, 1v1 and group. Like all classes there are so many variations of skills and gear itemization one can still have a weak Templar; however take the best players and it is Templar who won the last 1v1 duel competition and they have great group support abilities too.

NerfEverything

That templar was very very good. That DK was not very good at all. If that templar was playing a DK character, the fight would have been over in seconds.

Templar is an underwhelming class. Worst DPS, worst utility, least fun to play. If OP wants to enjoy the game, roll DK all day.

Artemiisia

Templar class is one of the strongest solo pve'er there is, im flying through the content with my templar alt, and at almost vr2 I think I have died like twice, which non of the deaths were in the main quests/fighter/mages guild quests at all.

MeowGinger

Thechemicals wrote: »

MeowGinger wrote: »

1. They were significantly nerfed at least twice (once in beta, and again in May).

2. They are still weaker in terms of dps than the other three classes, except for maybe nightblades.

3. They still have poor magicka management compared to the other three classes.

But, as you can see in the Developer Discussion subforum, ZOS has been addressing this and improving templars so that they are brought more in line with the other three classes.

1. The beta nerf was done for a good reason and im glad it was removed because the moans and tears would have been non-stop on the forums. The may nerf was not significant after the change...after the change.

2. Nightblades have weak dps....ill let someone else pick this apart. Btw, did you ever notice that Templar has an entire healing tree of skills? They weren't meant to be exclusive dps otherwise those heal skills would have dps effects. Also, if you look at dawns wrath tree....3 of the 5 skills are counter damage, which isn't recorded on dps addons so who is to say our dps is weak?

3. This is so easily bypassed with well thought out gear builds and skills.

1. How so? Templars have some of the most expensive skills in the game. They were probably made so expensive due to the passive in the first place, as skill costs were not decreased to make up for it. Additionally, I could argue (since you seem to be arguing that templars are intended as healers, not as dps) that templars should have such a passive because they are healers.

2. Having a healing tree unique to a class does not justify substandard dps. This is your opinion. If this is the logic behind justifying lower damage output, maybe DKs should have poor dps because their class skills (heavy on CCs, etc) are better suited for tanking, including 1 skill line that is almost exclusively for support (earthen heart). Maybe sorcs should have poor dps because they have an escape and can have up to two pets (including restoring twilight, and clannfear the tank). Do you see how your logic is flawed? Additionally, any class can heal. Maybe your logic would make some sense... if starting players had any idea that classes were meant to fit into certain roles instead of "play as you want" (= any role viable and comparable to other classes), and if there was no resto staff in game.

3. Of course it is. As I said, however, templars have some of the most expensive skills in the game, and they should not have to go above and beyond what any other class has to do to be on par with those other classes. Other classes have good/okay magicka management, and can make that even better with gear or instead focus on increasing damage or survivability. Templars also have no magicka recovery skills that even offset the cost of (break even with) the skill used. The only viable skill is equilibrium (mage's guild), but you'd have to be willing to risk one/two-hit death if you're going to be relying on that ability against bosses or in PvP.


Edit: As a side note, I'm happy with how my templar fares now due to the changes made in 1.3.3. I feel that my magicka management is now on par with that of the other classes... unless, maybe, they happen to be using the same gear setup as I am, since that would still leave the templar behind the others. I haven't PvPed since the patch so I don't know.

I also have a foreboding feeling that the main gear sets I'm using will be nerfed anyway.

CapuchinSeven

DarkAedin wrote: »

- the additional dmg from aedric spear tree passive is laughable, at 4%, it doesnt compare to crit (nb), igneous weapons/+fire dmg (dk), surge (sorc)

I'd rather that the 4% damage in PvP, crit is pretty much pointless if your target has impenetrable, crit is nice, but I'd rather take the weapon damage.

liquid_wolf

I'm a templar, and my build is half Healer, half Tank, half DPS, and all awesome.

Seriously... what other class can aggro half a public delve, tank all the damage, aoe everything to death, and heal at the same time?

Artemiisia

lol Liquid you are epic, so you build in total are 1.5, where others only be able to have a total of 1.

3 half equal 1.5

NerfEverything

liquid_wolf wrote: »

Seriously... what other class can aggro half a public delve, tank all the damage, aoe everything to death, and heal at the same time?

Literally every other class...
and they can do it faster, using less magika
Have you played any of the other classes?