If you're not playing some version of Pulsar spam

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

dcincali wrote: »

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »

dcincali wrote: »

Dang... I wish there was a pvp armor set that would reduce AOE damage by 20%..

Oh yes, Then I am forced to choose only one set armor with ugliest traits only because I have to deal with AoEs spammers (90% of people). And what happen if I wanna wear medium armor? Am I destined to die only because I don't wanna be an AoE spammer and beucause I hate the mage playstyle?.

I'm forced to roll light armor to be effective if I want magicka recovery.. Your point?

My point is Zenimax sold us a game where we could play the way we want, not a game where you have to play a mage to do something in AvA.

My point is we shouldn't be forced to choose one type of armor if the game would be balanced. Can you understand it now?

tinythinker

So is it 80% or 90% of people doing it, because I've seen different claims. Either way I haven't seen anything in-game to match such claims. Selective perception (the ratio of the things we tend to notice more versus the things we notice less or ignore) can exaggerate our sense of proportion. Anger and frustration can readily lead to claims marked by hyperbole. If it was really the case that 80-90% of people are spamming Impulse/Elemental Ring all the time, no one should be able to play several hours of AvA and hardly ever see it on the most populous campaign.

There will always be a flavor-of-the-moment tactic that is over-used until the counters also become widely known. Having the devs quickly run in and nerf whatever that FotM happens to be isn't a great idea for better balance. If enough time passes and it really is a significant number of players using it with no routinely effective counters emerging, then altering the ability's mechanic or reducing its damage is necessary. This is has already happened with some well-known and much debated changes to class and weapon skills.

The devs are currently working on armor and melee weapon fixes for stamina builds, and I will be interested in seeing how they change the dynamic for AvA. I would love to see more value in going melee and medium or heavy armor so that people didn't think that having the most magicka is the only thing that matters for stats. I do agree that many people feel forced to use light armor and a staff to be effective in AvA, but I would rather see creative ways of enhancing those class, weapon, and armor skills lines that are under-performing rather than only buffing or nerfing simple ability stats like duration, damage, range of effect, etc. I know that basic stat buffs are what ZOS is working on at the moment, but longer term I am hoping for something more fun.

bitaken

Ah, the Elder staves...online..

Wait...but no one is left playing?

Oh,...the good ole days of The Elder staves ...offline.

DrimacusMeleth

bitaken wrote: »

Ah, the Elder staves...online..

Wait...but no one is left playing?

Oh,...the good ole days of The Elder staves ...offline.

I hate all those flames, ESO is the best MMO out there right now. It_is_so_beautiful and has so_much_love! Can't wait for all the haters to leave for Wildstar. Eso is far from perfect, but I don't care for bugs if the world is as awesome as it is in Elder Scrolls Online.

Aeaeren

I use pulsar and at times even 1v1, if I see bat wings come out then Single target spells get canned and it becomes Talons and Pulsar at that time because they don't reflect. Of course I usually die and I could survive more if I switched out a couple spells i use in group settings.

Now crying about how others play and because you can't just win is tiring. Pulsar grouping is legit and easy to counter. Figure out the counter and DO IT and soak in the massive AP you will get for wiping out a whole group of them. Really you must learn to adjust to things, switching to pulsar was an adjustment we made because it was being used on us also. But crying about it is just being a whiner who expects his trophy even if last place.

Lava_Croft

"Play as you want" is still a valid selling point for ESO, just like it has been for the major TES game released the past 20 years. However, "Play as you want" does not mean "Your way of playing will always yield the best results".

I think it's pretty awesome that you already can be fairly useful in AvA with just about any kind of build and the future only looks bright in that regard.

And a bit on-topic: Pulsar is a joke in 1v1.

Bramir

A couple things about pulsar spam.

1. Don't let the zerg run you over. Seriously...just don't...

2. The stacking hp debuff from (I think) using different elemental types needs to be removed, and is the real problem here. It can be countered by a spellcaster with a good mana pool spamming efficient purge, but literally if they lag out for a couple seconds everyone dies, because you do have to spam it.

I applaud whoever discovered that this hp debuff stacks, but it really does need to be removed.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

Bramir wrote: »

A couple things about pulsar spam.

1. Don't let the zerg run you over. Seriously...just don't...

2. The stacking hp debuff from (I think) using different elemental types needs to be removed, and is the real problem here. It can be countered by a spellcaster with a good mana pool spamming efficient purge, but literally if they lag out for a couple seconds everyone dies, because you do have to spam it.

I applaud whoever discovered that this hp debuff stacks, but it really does need to be removed.

I really don't think pulsar spam zerg is unbeatable, but do you think is normal that I am forced to run against light armor+staff players if I am wearing heavy armor/Medium armor and melee weapons?. Warriors should do better than mages in melee range. Am I crazy for thinking this way?

Bramir

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

A couple things about pulsar spam.

1. Don't let the zerg run you over. Seriously...just don't...

2. The stacking hp debuff from (I think) using different elemental types needs to be removed, and is the real problem here. It can be countered by a spellcaster with a good mana pool spamming efficient purge, but literally if they lag out for a couple seconds everyone dies, because you do have to spam it.

I applaud whoever discovered that this hp debuff stacks, but it really does need to be removed.

I really don't think pulsar spam zerg is unbeatable, but do you think is normal that I am forced to run against light armor+staff players if I am wearing heavy armor/Medium armor and melee weapons?. Warriors should do better than mages in melee range. Am I crazy for thinking this way?

Still shouldn't let the equivalent of a tank brigade run you over...get out of the way and then come around their flanks and pick people off. If nothing else you can cause their zerg to split up as some chase you. If you get a little lucky you might take down a healer with soul assault and screw up their entire plan...

You also might die. But that happens a lot in Cyrodil...

IcyDeadPeople

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »

I really don't think pulsar spam zerg is unbeatable, but do you think is normal that I am forced to run against light armor+staff players if I am wearing heavy armor/Medium armor and melee weapons?. Warriors should do better than mages in melee range. Am I crazy for thinking this way?

Would you run away from a mage in light armor if it was 1v1?

What you are running away from is not just a couple of random mages using destro staves, but an organized guild group, no?

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »

I really don't think pulsar spam zerg is unbeatable, but do you think is normal that I am forced to run against light armor+staff players if I am wearing heavy armor/Medium armor and melee weapons?. Warriors should do better than mages in melee range. Am I crazy for thinking this way?

Would you run away from a mage in light armor if it was 1v1?

What you are running away from is not just a couple of random mages using destro staves, but an organized guild group, no?

Who cares about 1 v 1? Who is talking about 1 vs 1?

I am saying 10 mages with impulse kill pretty easy 10 guys without impulse (both organised groups). Even more if these 10 guys are warriors.

My suggest:

- Impulse shouldn't be a instant skill or it should be blockable.
- Impulse should do less dmg or stamina AoEs skills should do many more dmg.

Bramir

I'm telling you...its not the impulse spam damage that is killing you...its the fact that you get debuffed to like 50% hps and then the impulse spam kills you...but really so could just about anything else.

kkravaritieb17_ESO

Bramir wrote: »

I'm telling you...its not the impulse spam damage that is killing you...its the fact that you get debuffed to like 50% hps and then the impulse spam kills you...but really so could just about anything else.

What are you talking about? Pulsar only reduces max 13% health not even close to 50. If you re ignorant plz dont talk and check things before you post.

This thread is generally rediculous. I just hate the whinners that get every good ability in this game hammer-nerfed because they cant use their brain to counter act...In the end we ll be left with light and heavy attacks and spam those. I hope then the whinners will be happy.

Bashev

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

What are you talking about? Pulsar only reduces max 13% health not even close to 50. If you re ignorant plz dont talk and check things before you post.

I can say the same for you. Please check before you post. Currently the skill is bugged and the debuffs from different elemental staffs stuck. So 3*13 is 39%. If we add that impulse cannot be blocked and its average damage is 200 (no crits) that means 3 ppl with 3 different elemental staffs will kill you with 3 casts of impulse each. 9*200 = 1800 the rest is from the debuff. Everything happens so fast when I see the train coming ....

Bramir

Bashev wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

What are you talking about? Pulsar only reduces max 13% health not even close to 50. If you re ignorant plz dont talk and check things before you post.

I can say the same for you. Please check before you post. Currently the skill is bugged and the debuffs from different elemental staffs stuck. So 3*13 is 39%. If we add that impulse cannot be blocked and its average damage is 200 (no crits) that means 3 ppl with 3 different elemental staffs will kill you with 3 casts of impulse each. 9*200 = 1800 the rest is from the debuff. Everything happens so fast when I see the train coming ....

That is basically my understanding of how it works too...just look for the group of bubbles all moving around really close to each other and stay away...

timidobserver

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I manage to do pretty good in rankings and I do not run Pulsar. I haven't run Pulsar since I got bored of it around VR10.

You can PVP just fine without it unless you are a zerger.

You are right, stamina builds/single target builds can do it pretty good in 1vs1 - 2vs2 - 3vs3 situations. Problem is 10vs10 or bigger battles that involves a lot of people, AoE spam is simply far better than stamina builds.

I think is pretty ridiculous to see big battles where warriors with melee weapons are forced to run and try to keep distance against mages with light armor+staff.

I am not a genius in balancing issues but I think there are basic concepts that must be considered when you make a MMO and Zenimax didn't consider it.

Warriors should be the best role to play in melee range, not mages.

I'll give you that. You pretty much need to be a DK to stand in Pulsar spam and even they get rocked by a coordinated Pulsar spam group like the former emp group on Wabajack.

I could roll with the suggestion above involving adding AOE reduction to heavy armor & medium armor.

krim

immovable sap sap sap bat swarm immovable sap sap sap bat swarm.. sooooo fun but please stay in a tight little ball thank you.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

krim wrote: »

immovable sap sap sap bat swarm immovable sap sap sap bat swarm.. sooooo fun but please stay in a tight little ball thank you.

the best description of the current pvp I've read xDDDD.

AkelDamascus

The Elemental Ring morph outratios Pulsar in importance, although to achieve optimum results Pulsar does need to be in use to some degree. Oh and Impulse doesn't need a nerf simply because the masses haven't figured out how to counter its use.

The main reason Impulse morphs become so deadly is because AvA groups inside of voice comms can dynamically "hive zerg" in real time against PvP enemies. Many small groups combined with lots of other randoms cannot possibly outmaneuver and outwit a voice comm linked up group of teammates who regularly play together. That's not Zeni against you - that's you against you.

When PBAoE skills are made available to the arsenal of such an organized group you will typically see the strategic implementation of white hot dps spikes on top of their foes. This precise lazer of elements etches out an AP path through the often times clueless opponent masses.

Besides there's much more going on that leads up to and after the use of PBAoE; group movement, coordinated buffs and preps, ranged focus fire, efficient disengagements, fast refueling, etc.

That's just what you get in mass scale PvP MMOs, and those that are at peace with that learn to team up in fun, intelligent groups to seek out conquest by the best means available. If lonewolfers and small groups want to PvP in ESO without voice comms then by all means do. But don't get upset with Zeni when you run into a group that surgically cuts your forces to bits simply because they are maximizing their group's potential in a way that yours outside of voice comms cannot
.
Pulsar is nice but it's not overpowered because all you need are 3 people (*gasp* that's not even hardly a small group!) to use each a different elemental staff and no matter how many more players with Pulsar you add to that you're never going to help improve that debuff any further.

Larger organized groups (24-manish) often run 6 minimal coordinated Pulsars to help make up for discrepancies of having a larger group dps spread as the players try to keep pace with the driver. That leaves the nearly 18 other raid mates free to choose any of the other PBAoEs as their close combat dps spell. This includes Elemental Ring with a thoughtful mix of its 3 elemental effects. Both Impulse morphs are important until you reach 3 reliably consistent elements of Pulsar - after that Elemental Ring takes over mostly the rest of the way.

How do you counter that? You could either not let the PBAoE reach you by, you know, staying away from the players doing the PBAoE. More importantly though get intimately familiar with the proper uses for the skills War Horn, Barrier, Maneuver, Immovable, Siege Shield, Purge - all that wonderful stuff and more. You'll discover how to win against Impulse and its morphy pals, as well as against just about anything else. The funny thing about those skills though is that most of them work best in a coordinated group benefiting manner, so guess that means you'll have to... you know... get in voice comms.

*/And then Levar Burton smiles and says something like "And now you know."

quakedawg_ESO

AkelDamascus wrote: »

The Elemental Ring morph outratios Pulsar in importance, although to achieve optimum results Pulsar does need to be in use to some degree. Oh and Impulse doesn't need a nerf simply because the masses haven't figured out how to counter its use.

The main reason Impulse morphs become so deadly is because AvA groups inside of voice comms can dynamically "hive zerg" in real time against PvP enemies. Many small groups combined with lots of other randoms cannot possibly outmaneuver and outwit a voice comm linked up group of teammates who regularly play together. That's not Zeni against you - that's you against you.

When PBAoE skills are made available to the arsenal of such an organized group you will typically see the strategic implementation of white hot dps spikes on top of their foes. This precise lazer of elements etches out an AP path through the often times clueless opponent masses.

Besides there's much more going on that leads up to and after the use of PBAoE; group movement, coordinated buffs and preps, ranged focus fire, efficient disengagements, fast refueling, etc.

That's just what you get in mass scale PvP MMOs, and those that are at peace with that learn to team up in fun, intelligent groups to seek out conquest by the best means available. If lonewolfers and small groups want to PvP in ESO without voice comms then by all means do. But don't get upset with Zeni when you run into a group that surgically cuts your forces to bits simply because they are maximizing their group's potential in a way that yours outside of voice comms cannot
.
Pulsar is nice but it's not overpowered because all you need are 3 people (*gasp* that's not even hardly a small group!) to use each a different elemental staff and no matter how many more players with Pulsar you add to that you're never going to help improve that debuff any further.

Larger organized groups (24-manish) often run 6 minimal coordinated Pulsars to help make up for discrepancies of having a larger group dps spread as the players try to keep pace with the driver. That leaves the nearly 18 other raid mates free to choose any of the other PBAoEs as their close combat dps spell. This includes Elemental Ring with a thoughtful mix of its 3 elemental effects. Both Impulse morphs are important until you reach 3 reliably consistent elements of Pulsar - after that Elemental Ring takes over mostly the rest of the way.

How do you counter that? You could either not let the PBAoE reach you by, you know, staying away from the players doing the PBAoE. More importantly though get intimately familiar with the proper uses for the skills War Horn, Barrier, Maneuver, Immovable, Siege Shield, Purge - all that wonderful stuff and more. You'll discover how to win against Impulse and its morphy pals, as well as against just about anything else. The funny thing about those skills though is that most of them work best in a coordinated group benefiting manner, so guess that means you'll have to... you know... get in voice comms.

*/And then Levar Burton smiles and says something like "And now you know."

Mmmm Impulse.

thelg

Typical voice com group communications usually consists of: Charge ULTIS11!!!111 STACK STACK STACK!!!! BARRIERS UP!!!! spam spam spam NEGATE spam spam spam

Seirously ESO right now is not DAOC. Level of tactics used by even good groups is very rudimentary.

High damage aoes need cast time it is that simple.

Glantris

nerf coordination plz

krim

thelg wrote: »

Typical voice com group communications usually consists of: Charge ULTIS11!!!111 STACK STACK STACK!!!! BARRIERS UP!!!! spam spam spam NEGATE spam spam spam

Seirously ESO right now is not DAOC. Level of tactics used by even good groups is very rudimentary.

High damage aoes need cast time it is that simple.

There is nothing wrong with this.. but you cant expect a bunch of solo pugs or groups that dont play with each other regularly and not on comms to compete with this. Its going to take another coordinated group spamming ultis heals and aoes to take em down. As it should

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

Glantris wrote: »

nerf coordination plz

Coordinated groups without impulse can't do nothing vs coordinate groups with impulse. This is the problem, I can understand you are happy with you mage build but many people don't like to play as mage neither DoEs spam. Can you understand it or not?

krim

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »

Glantris wrote: »

nerf coordination plz

Coordinated groups without impulse can't do nothing vs coordinate groups with impulse. This is the problem, I can understand you are happy with you mage build but many people don't like to play as mage neither DoEs spam. Can you understand it or not?

This is like saying lets say a basketball team doesnt want to use a player against another team because he matches up better against that person on the opposing team just because they dont feel like it. Even though they have a better chance at winning playing that person..

this is pvp for crying out loud its not about what you like its about doing whats effective within the game.

Imperator_Clydus

Everybody knows that pulsar is an incredibly silly ability that was poorly thought out and should be changed. Everybody knows AOEs were not well-considered and currently dominate AvA, making anything else really not viable. The truth of the matter is, it doesn't really matter what everybody knows. It matters that ZOS knows how ridiculous the current state of their game is and whether they are going to fix it.

If all ZOS envisioned was to have AOE spam groups using ultimates, cc, and impulse, then they have the perfect experience. In my personal opinion, however, that leads to a very one-dimensional and boring experience lacking any sort of skill. Call coordinating on comms by spamming three buttons "skill" if it makes you feel better. I'd much rather AvA have a lot more variety in builds rather than everybody jumping on the FOTM bandwagon.

kirnmalidus

The different versions of Elemental Pulsar were stacking the health debuff, which I believe is now fixed, and that made it tremendously OP as there wasn't much that could be done to counter it or heal through it.

Lately these Pulsar trains have been getting wiped by organized groups that have learned the trick.

Hint: a Pulsar train is like a snake. You don't want to get bit by a snake. How do you avoid getting bit by a snake?

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

kirnmalidus wrote: »

The different versions of Elemental Pulsar were stacking the health debuff, which I believe is now fixed, and that made it tremendously OP as there wasn't much that could be done to counter it or heal through it.

Lately these Pulsar trains have been getting wiped by organized groups that have learned the trick.

Hint: a Pulsar train is like a snake. You don't want to get bit by a snake. How do you avoid getting bit by a snake?

Impulse isn't invincible, I know it and I understand it. But I repeat this question again, why an organised group of warriors are forced to avoid close combat against organised groups of mages? Is this logical for you?

krim wrote: »

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »

Glantris wrote: »

nerf coordination plz

Coordinated groups without impulse can't do nothing vs coordinate groups with impulse. This is the problem, I can understand you are happy with you mage build but many people don't like to play as mage neither DoEs spam. Can you understand it or not?

This is like saying lets say a basketball team doesnt want to use a player against another team because he matches up better against that person on the opposing team just because they dont feel like it. Even though they have a better chance at winning playing that person..

this is pvp for crying out loud its not about what you like its about doing whats effective within the game.

In MMOs there are basically two types of role Wizards and Warriors. Are you saying me that I can't play effectively only because I like play as warrior?

kirnmalidus

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »

Impulse isn't invincible, I know it and I understand it. But I repeat this question again, why an organised group of warriors are forced to avoid close combat against organised groups of mages? Is this logical for you?

I don't avoid close combat against mages. If 1v1 I get in their face and keep them stun-locked. If they are an organized group and I'm with an organized group we usually plow into them and wipe them. Especially those rainbow train groups, they're all taught to do some very silly things and not think for themselves, which makes for easy wipes.

eliisra

I heard billions of Necrotic Orbs and Bat Swarms revisited, where the new thing. You not only lag people the *** out, they cant target anyone either.

But I guess the good old Impulse-blob never goes out of fashion either.

It is hard to counter, since it's coordinated and alternates skills. It's always Manoeuvre, Barrier and every group buff in the game running, everyone with Immovable on. It's very hard to break it up into smaller pieces and slowing it down. You can of course stay the hell away from the blobs locomotive than keep picking people of from the back.