ZoS until you address Stamina Builds, You're not fixing the problem with class nerfs.

Xsorus

Patch after Patch I see buffing of Night Blades, and Nerfing of Dragon Knights.

The only thing you've managed to do during that was make the Stamina Builds of each of those classes more useless then before.

Nightblade Stamina builds are still blah, and will never been taken because You've turned around and made the Caster Builds even stronger. There is a reason right now Nightblades are now becoming the Meta on the Euro Servers for Trials.

You've managed to weaken DragonKnight Caster Builds some, making them weaker the the Nightblade ones in terms of DPS, but you've absolutely gutted what little options there was for Stamina on the DK. Everytime you nerf a Class ability on the DK without actually fixing the problem of Light Armor vs Medium/Heavy you make those Stamina users that much worse.

You're forcing everyone into this Caster Based setup with each patch...Hell you actually had more build diversity before ya nerfed bash, Because at least one Stamina Build worked.

Until you actually address this issue, You're not fixing the problem.

alexj4596b14_ESO

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Patch after Patch I see buffing of Night Blades, and Nerfing of Dragon Knights.

The only thing you've managed to do during that was make the Stamina Builds of each of those classes more useless then before.

Nightblade Stamina builds are still blah, and will never been taken because You've turned around and made the Caster Builds even stronger. There is a reason right now Nightblades are now becoming the Meta on the Euro Servers for Trials.

You've managed to weaken DragonKnight Caster Builds some, making them weaker the the Nightblade ones in terms of DPS, but you've absolutely gutted what little options there was for Stamina on the DK. Everytime you nerf a Class ability on the DK without actually fixing the problem of Light Armor vs Medium/Heavy you make those Stamina users that much worse.

You're forcing everyone into this Caster Based setup with each patch...Hell you actually had more build diversity before ya nerfed bash, Because at least one Stamina Build worked.

Until you actually address this issue, You're not fixing the problem.

I can agree if they nerf too much without taking into account stamina builds they are just going too have too rebuff them again

Skirmish840

Spot on xsorusb hopefully if we keep pointing it out they'll listen.

Nerf the damn NB Sorc build, not the NB Stam builds please..

monkeymystic

This is the reason why I don't think ZOS know what they are doing, at all.

Crescent

They nerfed sorcerers already with the Bolt Escape change.

It was LIGHT ARMOR allowing sorcerers to spam bolt escape and Impulse, and instead of nerfing the light armor cost reduction passives and spells like spell symmetry, they went ahead and increased the costs.

Net result? Now medium and heavy armor users can't use destro staff close to effectively. You can get maybe 4 impulse out before running out of magicka.

Now my medium armor sorcerer, where bolt escape cost 1/4 of my magicka pool, will be screwed in PvE when I need to use it several time on bosses that spam lethal AoE.

I had to respec to caster sorcerer because medium armor sorcerer is garbage, we don't even get all the supporting class skills for melee that NB or DK get, so we depended on just critical surge and the rest weaponskills.

Now they announce the changes for 1.3 and I don't see a single change to the fact that stamina build AoE is bad.

Sorcerers don't get any stamina recovery skills so they won't have good stamina builds.

More importantly, any caster can get 50% spell crit with magelight+ light armor passive+ willow's/twilight embrace (another 10%).

The closets melee can get is 49% crit chance, WITH DAGGERS. If you don't use daggers, the most you can have is 39% crit chance. Wearing a crappy set with a 50% health regen while sneaking (useless) only to have the 5 piece 5% crit.


If my sorcerer tries to use a bow in VR content it's suicide because sorcerer doesn't have spike heals like green dragon's blood or shadow disguise to survive log enough to even kill something with a bow.

TL;DR I spent all my reasearch slots on maxing medium armor and 1h weapons, only to realize that the only intended build for sorcerers for Zenimax is caster. I was misled to believe that sorcerer battlemages would be viable, but the class skills don't offer much support for it and I hope they make class skills universal or nerf the leveling grind so I can reroll NB/DK for melee.

Mephos

I had to respec to caster sorcerer because medium armor sorcerer is garbage, we don't even get all the supporting class skills for melee that NB or DK get, so we depended on just critical surge and the rest weaponskills.

so, you thought a armor that gives you stamina, weapon crit (no spell crit) would work for your magicka playstyle?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Crescent

Mephos wrote: »

I had to respec to caster sorcerer because medium armor sorcerer is garbage, we don't even get all the supporting class skills for melee that NB or DK get, so we depended on just critical surge and the rest weaponskills.

so, you thought a armor that gives you stamina, weapon crit (no spell crit) would work for your magicka playstyle?

comon.. how dumb can a human be?

I'm capped on magicka with medium armor and stamina as well with food.

It's not like DK or NB on plate don't use their class skills. You don't get the equivalent of thundering presence or critical surge from the weaponskills themselves so it's not like you have options for complementing the weak weaponskills.

And weaponskills don't give you heals. Critical Surge does. And you can't crit with weapons if you don't have medium armor, so you don't get healed by critical surge if you play melee with robes for a measly 10% weaponcrit chance instead of 32% with medium armor.

So, yeah, there's not a single build in this game that doesn't rely on class skills.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

I support this thread, Zenimax is blind if can't see how much better is light armor+staff than any other build right now. All classes do better with light armor and staffs.

Mephos

I'm capped on magicka with medium armor and stamina as well with food.

who the *** cares if your capped on stamina/magicka.. its not the capps that are important, its the reduction for spells and the magicka regeneration that comes with light armor that makes magicka spells actually work as "main spells"

So, yeah, there's not a single build in this game that doesn't rely on class skills.

why should there be? the next you ask that you want to have a "bow only" build which needs to be viable to play. or a "alliance war support build for solo play"..

yeah, zeni did promotion with "play as you want" .. but comon. this *** would never work for no game ever because player can come up with the dumbest stuff ..

.. Ok, just to explain to you how the system works:

you want to use mainly stamina spells (weapons spells) then you are almost forced to go medium/heavy armor..

you want to use mainly class spells/magicka spells then go light armor for magicka regeneration.

but don´t expect to go "I have max magicka/stamina" so I should use everything to its full potential.

also its dumb to go medium armor and expect magicka spells to work properly.
its like going light armor and only using stamina skills.

it just makes no sense, serious.

I did refer to:

Net result? Now medium and heavy armor users can't use destro staff close to effectively. You can get maybe 4 impulse out before running out of magicka.

what do you expect? heavy armor spamming magicka spells? serious, thats not how this game is working dude..

want to use magicka spells, go magicka
want to use stamina spells, go stamina
want to use both (on equal terms) then you need to go hybrid

and if you dont see that logic, your dumb in my eyes (therefor my comment is only the truth and not harassment )


[Moderator Edit: Edited quote from moderated post.]

Ghenra

Fully agree with the OP.

Stamina builds are more useless than Makica builds. Why? Because the light armor passives are better than others (21% less cost for example) and Magica skills are more powerfull, a part of this, you can get armor cap with light armor and buffs. If that were not enough, block attakcs cosume Stamina, a "mage" has all the Magika pool to do damage and all the Stamina pool to block damage.

This is one of the most unbalanced mechanics ever.

PD: real DK player with Heavy Armor, melee weapons and Stamina based build, not a gay DK with skirt and staff running away casting OP area skills with one button spam.

Mephos

jparrillab16_ESO wrote: »

Fully agree with the OP.

Stamina builds are more useless than Makica builds. Why? Because the light armor passives are better than others (21% less cost for example) and Magica skills are more powerfull, a part of this, you can get armor cap with light armor and buffs. If that were not enough, block attakcs cosume Stamina, a "mage" has all the Magika pool to do damage and all the Stamina pool to block damage.

This is one of the most unbalanced mechanics ever.

PD: real DK player with Heavy Armor, melee weapons and Stamina based build, not a gay DK with skirt and staff running away casting OP area skills with one button spam.

can you block with magicka skills? - no
can you dodge roll with magicka skills? - no
can you sprint with magicka skills? - no
can you CC break with magicka skills? - no

now tell me.. .. what happens when stamina gets stronger? yeah.. player will get nearly unkillable since they can block for every, CC break forever, sprint forever etc..

the balance is good like it is

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

Mephos wrote: »

jparrillab16_ESO wrote: »

Fully agree with the OP.

Stamina builds are more useless than Makica builds. Why? Because the light armor passives are better than others (21% less cost for example) and Magica skills are more powerfull, a part of this, you can get armor cap with light armor and buffs. If that were not enough, block attakcs cosume Stamina, a "mage" has all the Magika pool to do damage and all the Stamina pool to block damage.

This is one of the most unbalanced mechanics ever.

PD: real DK player with Heavy Armor, melee weapons and Stamina based build, not a gay DK with skirt and staff running away casting OP area skills with one button spam.

can you block with magicka skills? - no
can you dodge roll with magicka skills? - no
can you sprint with magicka skills? - no
can you CC break with magicka skills? - no

now tell me.. .. what happens when stamina gets stronger? yeah.. player will get nearly unkillable since they can block for every, CC break forever, sprint forever etc..

the balance is good like it is

I would like to know your class, armor, weapons and if you play PvP or PvE. You sound like a guy who want easy kills with his mage role character. And not, you can't block aoes spells but you can block aoes melee attacks like cleave.

If you think is fine to see more than 70% of players wearing light armor in PvP, my friend, you have a problem.

Mephos

dude, I play a V12 temp for PvE and PvP .. I play 4 light, 3 heavy and a hybrid of class spells and dual wield melee (one hand) and 2nd is restro staff ..

can't block aoes spells

spear shard can be blocked (aoe spell)
biting jabs can be blocked (aoe spell)

btw, all AoE spells which are magicka based can be walked out of (mostly you only get 1/3 of the dmg if you move fast enough or just use stamina to roll out of it - even faster)

I could continue that but what sense would it make. you clearly try to improve your own build which is probably stamina based. I get that.

I don´t care if they improve stamina builds mine will also be improved.

but what I care for is balance.
currently stamina for blocking is OP in pvp and the best way to reduce dmg AND CC ..

all those cry babies who just want to have their own build pumped up so they can faceroll the content without thinking don´t think a second about the conquences that come along with increasing the stamina pool of characters.

sry, but rather nerf magicka based builds then improve stamina based builds.

Malmai

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Patch after Patch I see buffing of Night Blades, and Nerfing of Dragon Knights.

The only thing you've managed to do during that was make the Stamina Builds of each of those classes more useless then before.

Nightblade Stamina builds are still blah, and will never been taken because You've turned around and made the Caster Builds even stronger. There is a reason right now Nightblades are now becoming the Meta on the Euro Servers for Trials.

You've managed to weaken DragonKnight Caster Builds some, making them weaker the the Nightblade ones in terms of DPS, but you've absolutely gutted what little options there was for Stamina on the DK. Everytime you nerf a Class ability on the DK without actually fixing the problem of Light Armor vs Medium/Heavy you make those Stamina users that much worse.

You're forcing everyone into this Caster Based setup with each patch...Hell you actually had more build diversity before ya nerfed bash, Because at least one Stamina Build worked.

Until you actually address this issue, You're not fixing the problem.

Don't you see how could primary skill (Tree skill) should be less powerful than Secondary, bonus (Weapon skills=stamina) basically you calling to nerf your own skill tree and you want a buff for secondary ? Also there is nothing to fix with light armor cause if they nerf what is the point in that ? how would casters like templar heal you or how would you build a caster build than explain ?

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

Mephos wrote: »

all those cry babies who just want to have their own build pumped up so they can faceroll the content without thinking don´t think a second about the conquences that come along with increasing the stamina pool of characters.

My own build?? xDDDD I play Templar VR11 (EU Server, nickname: Debon), 7 pieces of light armor + Resto staff/one hand shield and I can assure you I am near to unkillable. If I play defensive, no one can kill me in 1 vs 1 situations and you should know this if you really play as templar.

I am not crying, I only want a competitive game. Right now when I see a guy wearing heavy armor I think "easy kill"...

Mephos wrote: »

spear shard can be blocked (aoe spell)
biting jabs can be blocked (aoe spell)

Yes you are right here. But there are a lot of AOEs spells that can't be blocked.

If you really want a balanced game, please explain me how is possible that you like a game where the most people VR +10 is wearing right now light armor + staff.

Light armor is simply better in all aspects if you make a comparison with heavy armor (I am talking about PvP). Wearing light armor you can do more dmg and have many more survivability. In what world is this balanced?

Xsorus

Mephos wrote: »

jparrillab16_ESO wrote: »

Fully agree with the OP.

Stamina builds are more useless than Makica builds. Why? Because the light armor passives are better than others (21% less cost for example) and Magica skills are more powerfull, a part of this, you can get armor cap with light armor and buffs. If that were not enough, block attakcs cosume Stamina, a "mage" has all the Magika pool to do damage and all the Stamina pool to block damage.

This is one of the most unbalanced mechanics ever.

PD: real DK player with Heavy Armor, melee weapons and Stamina based build, not a gay DK with skirt and staff running away casting OP area skills with one button spam.

can you block with magicka skills? - no
can you dodge roll with magicka skills? - no
can you sprint with magicka skills? - no
can you CC break with magicka skills? - no

now tell me.. .. what happens when stamina gets stronger? yeah.. player will get nearly unkillable since they can block for every, CC break forever, sprint forever etc..

the balance is good like it is

The thing you just listed is exactly why Stamina Based Builds are weaker then Magicka Builds.

Stamina Based builds that use Stamina based attacks run out of stamina quicker because it has to do those things you listed. Then not only can they not do those things, they also can't do any damage as well.

While Magika based ones can do all those things, while still having all the damage/utility of their Magicka abilities.

The Balance also isn't good like it is

PvP is nothing more then a bunch of Light Armor/Staves users right now
PvE is the same, There is no Stamina Build taken in PvE. They do HALF the DPS of a Magicka Build.

Mephos

If you really want a balanced game, please explain me how is possible that you like a game where the most people VR +10 is wearing right now light armor + staff.

its the same like

why do in most MMOs people play dps and not tank/heal?

light armor gives with the magic penetration the most dps atm. and yes, it would be a great thing if they could add "melee penetration" to the stamina armors to make it even.

therefore I think most people tend to play light armor because they want to play a dps role.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Mephos wrote: »

jparrillab16_ESO wrote: »

Fully agree with the OP.

Stamina builds are more useless than Makica builds. Why? Because the light armor passives are better than others (21% less cost for example) and Magica skills are more powerfull, a part of this, you can get armor cap with light armor and buffs. If that were not enough, block attakcs cosume Stamina, a "mage" has all the Magika pool to do damage and all the Stamina pool to block damage.

This is one of the most unbalanced mechanics ever.

PD: real DK player with Heavy Armor, melee weapons and Stamina based build, not a gay DK with skirt and staff running away casting OP area skills with one button spam.

can you block with magicka skills? - no
can you dodge roll with magicka skills? - no
can you sprint with magicka skills? - no
can you CC break with magicka skills? - no

now tell me.. .. what happens when stamina gets stronger? yeah.. player will get nearly unkillable since they can block for every, CC break forever, sprint forever etc..

the balance is good like it is

The thing you just listed is exactly why Stamina Based Builds are weaker then Magicka Builds.

Stamina Based builds that use Stamina based attacks run out of stamina quicker because it has to do those things you listed. Then not only can they not do those things, they also can't do any damage as well.

While Magika based ones can do all those things, while still having all the damage/utility of their Magicka abilities.

The Balance also isn't good like it is

PvP is nothing more then a bunch of Light Armor/Staves users right now
PvE is the same, There is no Stamina Build taken in PvE. They do HALF the DPS of a Magicka Build.

I couldn't agree more :-)

Mephos wrote: »

If you really want a balanced game, please explain me how is possible that you like a game where the most people VR +10 is wearing right now light armor + staff.

its the same like

why do in most MMOs people play dps and not tank/heal?

light armor gives with the magic penetration the most dps atm. and yes, it would be a great thing if they could add "melee penetration" to the stamina armors to make it even.

therefore I think most people tend to play light armor because they want to play a dps role.

Ok, We agreed at this point. Light armor is far better to DPS roles (More resources and more penetration).

And now, between Light and Heavy armor... Which armor gives more survivability? What do you think? (PvP).

Mephos

And now, between Light and Heavy armor... Which armor gives more survivability? What do you think? (PvP).

heavy armor in my eyes is mainly for tanks to reduce incoming damage. PvP is balanced around other things than mitigrating damage. Which also can be seen at the passivs. I highly suggest medium armor for PvP over heavy armor. The argument "all armors should be viable" counts only if you say "all roles that a player should fulfill must be viable" Therefore, no one wants to have high heavy armor high dps players which can take a lot and will deal out a lot of damage.

Heavy armor actually gives you almost nothing useful for PvP except the high armor, medicore spell resist. The only thing where I could see this useful is a heavy armor health regen build which lives from passiv health regeneration and mitigrating damage down to survive longer fights.

Additional to that I believe from my depest hearts that this game should NEVER be balanced around PvP aspects. The majority of players are PvE players (have been in every MMO, will always be in every MMO except its a PvP only MMO).

edit:

I think light armor or heavy armor is not important as long as you know the weakness of both. If I see people in light armor I tend to CC them hard, after they CC break I will go defense for about 5-8 seconds, then CC hard until they are out of stamina. after that each CC will crush them really hard. light armor has no actual advantage to gain stamina back. heavy armor can mitigrate incoming damage to survive longer.

don´t know, I´m no pvp expert and probably will never. I just hope they don´t balance skills around the pvp experience.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

Mephos wrote: »

And now, between Light and Heavy armor... Which armor gives more survivability? What do you think? (PvP).

heavy armor in my eyes is mainly for tanks to reduce incoming damage. PvP is balanced around other things than mitigrating damage. Which also can be seen at the passivs. I highly suggest medium armor for PvP over heavy armor. The argument "all armors should be viable" counts only if you say "all roles that a player should fulfill must be viable" Therefore, no one wants to have high heavy armor high dps players which can take a lot and will deal out a lot of damage.

Heavy armor actually gives you almost nothing useful for PvP except the high armor, medicore spell resist. The only thing where I could see this useful is a heavy armor health regen build which lives from passiv health regeneration and mitigrating damage down to survive longer fights.

Additional to that I believe from my depest hearts that this game should NEVER be balanced around PvP aspects. The majority of players are PvE players (have been in every MMO, will always be in every MMO except its a PvP only MMO).

edit:

I think light armor or heavy armor is not important as long as you know the weakness of both. If I see people in light armor I tend to CC them hard, after they CC break I will go defense for about 5-8 seconds, then CC hard until they are out of stamina. after that each CC will crush them really hard. light armor has no actual advantage to gain stamina back. heavy armor can mitigrate incoming damage to survive longer.

don´t know, I´m no pvp expert and probably will never. I just hope they don´t balance skills around the pvp experience.

A game where the people can't play effectively as "warrior" in PvP?. I think Zenimax wouldn't want this for their game. We are a lot of people that love to play as warrior in MMOs and if we can't do it here, I hope Zenimax tell us the truth and stop to say "play as you want". I like MMOs because I love medieval age (this is the main reason because I will never play Wildstar). I don't want a game where I am forced to be a mage or thief.


PS: In my eyes light armor gives much more survivability than heavy armor (PvP).

Xsorus

If you can cap armor in PvP, there is absolutely no reason to use Heavy Armor over Light Armor in PvP.

The only reason Heavy Armor was ever used over Light was the 5 Trait when Bash wasn't nerfed, Soon as Bash became gutted, and not spammed...that little bonus went away (If you're wondering how block reduction mattered to bash, Bash eats stamina, meaning the less stamina you eat while blocking, the more Bashs you could do.)

Once the 5 piece Arena Set is available for most Cloth Users, there won't even be a reason to run 2 pieces of heavy.. 7 pieces will be pretty much common even as a Tank.

chrisw_63_ESO

First, while I agree in general with the Sta/Mag issue, I don't think its as bad as some say. True, combat abilities you choose are heavily biased toward Magicka, and I've had the same issues people are talking about here. But Stamina is used heavily by abilites you don't choose: Blocking, dodging, and breaking control spells. If you're low on Stamina all the time instead of Magicka, when you need a block or dodge, or to break a root, you don't have it. Still, I think the scales tip a bit too far to the Magicka side, and need a bit of tweaking.

Armor can help the balance issue a little. From everything I've seen, this game was not made for players to wear the same armor type in every slot. Set bonuses, maxed attributes, and regen passives all point to one thing: You want the most powerful character you can build, you need to mix it up. My Templar was having major magicka issues until I changed the two least protective pieces to light armor (hands and belt). While the balance issue still exists, he's doing much better.

Second: Wow.. I was almost too embarrassed to reply to this thread. People, contrary to popular belief, you can state your opinion without demeaning and/or foul language. Really! Try it and see!

I do think ESO is doing it right. This is a huge game with almost endless variations on gear and abilities. They're listening to feedback, changing stuff incrementally and waiting to see how it pans out. Big, sudden nerfs / buffs deserve a bit of derision, sure, but if you want your feedback to be taken seriously, post without the thinly disguised expletives, leave your anger at the door, and give serious, detailed, thoughtful feedback. Include what you think is wrong, and add possible solutions. Going overboard with a five page post full of your spec, gear, and/or the details of one specific boss fight, or asking for MyUltraMegaUberAbility/Buff helps no one.

dragnier

I must say that I've tested a dual wield hybrid magicka / stam build on my NB in live and hated the fact that even though I was doing what I should, my dps dropped by half.

I had roughly 1400 magicka, 2200 health, and 1800 stamina with 78 magicka regen, base health regen, and 89 stamina regen.

I had a Hunding's Rage 5 piece set and a Seducer's 3 piece set for more weapon damage and lower spell costs all with Divines trait for improvement to Thief stone.

Both bars were dual wield, one for single target and one for AoE. (not ideal I know, but I wanted to test it. No ranged attacks at all here.)

Single target was Surprise Attacks, Blood Craze, Rapid Strikes, Reaper's Mark, and Siphoning Attacks with Soul Harvest for Ultimate.

AoE was Refreshing Path (more for the heal), Drain Power, Whirlwind, Mirage, and Siphoning Attacks with Veil of Blades for an Ultimate.

So with Crit trait on purple weapons I had 6% there, one of each set was a dagger for another 2.5% there, Thief was giving me about 6% with divines increase I think, having an assassin skill on each bar was another 3%, and then the medium armor 5 pieces was another 15% for weapon only. That adds up to about 17% spell crit and 32% weapon crit.

Even when I didn't have to use Siphoning Attacks, my dps was half to 2/3 of what I get as a light armor + staff full caster. With Siphoning Attacks toggled on, I might as well have just been a tank.

GreasedLizard

+100

The glaring issue needs to be addressed before any small tweaking is beneficial.

DW does work ok when properly setup as AoE execute. All passives, PE, maybe combat Prayer popped before wep swap

Although it syncs best with Pulsar spam -> DW. Ofc then you lose the great MP recovery of r50 Destro passives, but you do get MP regen while in ST dump mode

As single target ... DW is horrifically bad DPS. It should be a leader in that regard...

Maulkin

GreasedLizard wrote: »

+100
As single target ... DW is horrifically bad DPS. It should be a leader in that regard...

Hmmm it's besides the point of the original post, but I think it's 2H that should be the king of single target melee DPS. DW has better AoE and kiting abilities so it should be slightly inferior in single target melee.

I've already give the OP an "agree", stamina builds are inferior to magicka ones and need buffing

Sihnfahl

dragnier wrote: »

I had a Hunding's Rage 5 piece set.

Which isn't even working right...

LariahHunding

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

GreasedLizard wrote: »

+100
As single target ... DW is horrifically bad DPS. It should be a leader in that regard...

Hmmm it's besides the point of the original post, but I think it's 2H that should be the king of single target melee DPS. DW has better AoE and kiting abilities so it should be slightly inferior in single target melee.

I've already give the OP an "agree", stamina builds are inferior to magicka ones and need buffing

I can do 1350 dmg just coming out of crouch with a 2-handed sword heavy attack. Is that comparable? (V6 NB) with 5/2 med/light.

Sihnfahl

gougefub17_ESO wrote: »

I can do 1350 dmg just coming out of crouch with a 2-handed sword heavy attack. Is that comparable? (V6 NB) with 5/2 med/light.

Great for an opener, but the problem with melee stamina builds is that they peter out quick between the consumption of stam for defensive and offensive moves, rather than just have to have stam for defensive purposes only.

I can easily take down a 2.4k health V10 mob from stealth - as a 2H DK - and smack it down so quick I register as 1.3k DPS.

Put me against a ~10k health V10 troll and it drops down to 400-500 (depending on my luck) because I'm consuming stam for defensive purposes, which increases the length of the time of the fight, and decreases my damage done because I'm losing stamina I could otherwise use on stamina-based attacks.

dragnier

gougefub17_ESO wrote: »

I can do 1350 dmg just coming out of crouch with a 2-handed sword heavy attack. Is that comparable? (V6 NB) with 5/2 med/light.

Great opener against a PvE monster. I doubt you'll hit that hard against a player in PvP. I don't know if you were relating PvE or PvP stats. If it was PvP, then it is probably the one Stamina attack that does more damage than something magicka based.

I have gotten an opener crit from stealth out of my Surprise Attacks/Concealed Weapon against a PvE v12 monster for 2300-2500 in all light armor with full magicka enchants and a resto staff.

That same setup will only crit from stealth against a player in PvP for 800-1200.

And that is if I can get behind them without getting noticed...

However, compare those if they are PvE numbers, even though we are different veteran levels. Magicka still trumps stealth.

rophez_ESO

The problem, in pvp, as has been said many times by other people, is that when a stamina player is fighting a magicka player, the stamina player is using their mobility/defense resource to do damage, while the magicka player is not.

The problem in pve is even more obvious. Do you think we are all wearing cloth and using staves at end game because we want to be like gandalf? I really want to be wearing plate armor, but there's no reason. Zenimax did a great job creating really cool class abilities, but they are all magicka based. The weapon abilities really don't stack up, and they eat our mobility/defense pool.

alexj4596b14_ESO

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Patch after Patch I see buffing of Night Blades, and Nerfing of Dragon Knights.

The only thing you've managed to do during that was make the Stamina Builds of each of those classes more useless then before.

Nightblade Stamina builds are still blah, and will never been taken because You've turned around and made the Caster Builds even stronger. There is a reason right now Nightblades are now becoming the Meta on the Euro Servers for Trials.

You've managed to weaken DragonKnight Caster Builds some, making them weaker the the Nightblade ones in terms of DPS, but you've absolutely gutted what little options there was for Stamina on the DK. Everytime you nerf a Class ability on the DK without actually fixing the problem of Light Armor vs Medium/Heavy you make those Stamina users that much worse.

You're forcing everyone into this Caster Based setup with each patch...Hell you actually had more build diversity before ya nerfed bash, Because at least one Stamina Build worked.

Until you actually address this issue, You're not fixing the problem.

I can agree if they nerf too much without t

Mephos wrote: »

And now, between Light and Heavy armor... Which armor gives more survivability? What do you think? (PvP).

heavy armor in my eyes is mainly for tanks to reduce incoming damage. PvP is balanced around other things than mitigrating damage. Which also can be seen at the passivs. I highly suggest medium armor for PvP over heavy armor. The argument "all armors should be viable" counts only if you say "all roles that a player should fulfill must be viable" Therefore, no one wants to have high heavy armor high dps players which can take a lot and will deal out a lot of damage.

Heavy armor actually gives you almost nothing useful for PvP except the high armor, medicore spell resist. The only thing where I could see this useful is a heavy armor health regen build which lives from passiv health regeneration and mitigrating damage down to survive longer fights.

Additional to that I believe from my depest hearts that this game should NEVER be balanced around PvP aspects. The majority of players are PvE players (have been in every MMO, will always be in every MMO except its a PvP only MMO).

edit:

I think light armor or heavy armor is not important as long as you know the weakness of both. If I see people in light armor I tend to CC them hard, after they CC break I will go defense for about 5-8 seconds, then CC hard until they are out of stamina. after that each CC will crush them really hard. light armor has no actual advantage to gain stamina back. heavy armor can mitigrate incoming damage to survive longer.

don´t know, I´m no pvp expert and probably will never. I just hope they don´t balance skills around the pvp experience.

Just saying heavy amour wouldn't be the best cuz you couldn't cast but 5 spells maybe? And your out of magic.