the road ahead... a detour around templar.

CosmicChaos

Genada wrote: »

I like ESO, want to play ESO but it takes too long to re roll and I feel like that's the only real option if your playing a Templar.

Once you start doing vr content you quickly find out how bad they are. You run into mobs of three and want to punch the screen. Several times you find yourself working on a quest and having to wait for someone else to come along and help you do it. You find yourself watching other classes doing stuff and going green with envy.

Really just give Templar a token to change class, disable it's ability to have more created and rework the entire class.

There's some debate about if Templar is where they want everyone and if Templar is really the baseline for everyone. If it is, this is going to be a rather empty game because playing Templar is not a whole lot of fun.

No........just no. I don't care if they let all of you re-roll your Templars. But I am making due with the class I love. As much as a fight as its been to get my build suitable for soloing I refuse to give it up. I might not have amazing DPS and the only Restoring light skill I run is Breath of Life. But I have found a way to make my Bow Mage work in up to 3v1 consistently and without taking forever. The class needs some balancing, but not all of us want to jump ship.

Custos91

Hi, I agree with most of the people.
We templars got great tools for supporting, many of them, actually to many of them. Our skills all have different side effects that actually explain the high costs. The problem is, there is no filler, no thing you can rely on, after you had to use the other things. Its like you are a swiss army knive, you have everything that a raid could wish for, except the knive, and so you are forced to help with everything, but if knives are needed, you are out xD

content seems to be balanced around resto staff heals, so templar heals allow your group to fail.

That means, if you are a templar healer, you actually take away the need to learn from your group in many situations.
Breath of life is an example, if you dropp that strong that the templar has to use this, you failed.
Healing ultimate is essentially the same.
rune focus is nearly pointless, because if you are stacked up there are better things, like combat prayer, mysterious orb, bone shield, stuff like that.
Tanks don't learn proper ressource management if you have to throw luminous shards at them.
aura is nearly pointless too, I guess that will change with more stamina builds now.
Lingering ritual and the other morph are not nearly as good as healing springs, that is because healing springs are many small hits, so you get way more ultimate from it, and with replenishing barrier you are doing yourself a favor.
Spellpower pots would actually help us, but none of our abbilitys needs that buff, because atm you need either shields or many small heals.

I reached a point in this game where even NBs were actually trying to help me, because they felt sorry after seeing me struggle.
Some Dks asked me for theorycrafting options after the nerf, i told them everything we templars found out about weapons, hybrid builds and the other non class things. They do now, after the fix, more then 1k again, even with power of the light nearly abusing I would never reach this dps value.

Templar tank works somehow, but has not enough controll compared to teleporting sorcs and nightblades and talon dks. Blinding flashes change could change this, but who knows.

I tried to level a sorc recently.
It felt like cheating!

Seriously, I mean the aura is somehow our ressource management, but it is only reggen, and that is overcapped very fast, dark exchange, dragon blood and leeching strikes are way better, they have either % values or are actually restoring magicka.

Khivas_Carrick

Cogo wrote: »

If you read the road ahead. Balance is a big thing and they even say that will keep on working on this, a job that is never done.

If you want something changed, try feedback, or make a decent post about it, describe what and why, and not only do the DEVS here listen. They already taken OUR ideas and put them in the game. NOT many, but a few.

Use your power here. You might even be right, but let them know in the most informed way possible.

/Feedback in game works.

Also, this is obvious, but dont expect things to be changed just because you think so. Sometimes we are right, and sometimes we are wrong :-p

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/107368/staffs-class-skills-uppercut-and-it-s-morphs-read-this-please#latest

That thread, and like 5 others I've made, all pretty much stating the same/similar, and thus far many have agreed with me and some of these have made it to 1.2.

I may not be a Dev, but I'm starting to think being a Detective was the wrong career move for me to take.

Genada

For real, just allow any Templar that wants to do so to change to a different class.

You seem to not want to fix it and by the time you figure out how broken the class is, it's too late to re roll.

At this point your giving Templars the option to either re roll or quit the game. I would rather quit myself then have to re roll a toon and go threw all the vet content again.

So if your not really going to fix broken classes, leave us with two that are clearly superior to two others, let the ones with the broken class switch to the none broken classes.

Khivas_Carrick

Genada wrote: »

For real, just allow any Templar that wants to do so to change to a different class.

You seem to not want to fix it and by the time you figure out how broken the class is, it's too late to re roll.

At this point your giving Templars the option to either re roll or quit the game. I would rather quit myself then have to re roll a toon and go threw all the vet content again.

So if your not really going to fix broken classes, leave us with two that are clearly superior to two others, let the ones with the broken class switch to the none broken classes.

Damn even I have to admit that's a little overly cynical lol

Deinokb16_ESO

I don't want to extend. If you want to show disagreement with game progression, cancel your subscription, I did a week ago, still 2 days of gameplay left. The only way they see they need to improve is when they see their $ numbers going down. Once they notice they are sinking, they start listening people. Market rules changed from "Games made by players for players" to "Games made by investors for investors". Trust me.

Sakiri

Deinokb16_ESO wrote: »

I don't want to extend. If you want to show disagreement with game progression, cancel your subscription, I did a week ago, still 2 days of gameplay left. The only way they see they need to improve is when they see their $ numbers going down. Once they notice they are sinking, they start listening people. Market rules changed from "Games made by players for players" to "Games made by investors for investors". Trust me.

Zenimax Media and its subsidiaries are not publicly traded, theres no shareholders all up in their junk demanding huge profits.

ZOS is one of many subsidiaries of Zenimax Media, which includes Bethesda and id Software(Doom, Quake, etc).

This isnt your standard company run by Kotick.

Krovax

I love my now VR9 templar even with all it's shortcomings. I can deal with most situations, excepts too many casters and prolonged fights with 3-4 waves of three mobs, where I need to prolong fights by hiding behing my (wooden) shield to wait for my potions to become ready again or warlock set timer to reset. I really am OK with that, as this making me work for something actually is kind of making me having more fun than just facerolling thru it. It did suck at times when I didn't have the good potions that up hp/magicka/stam in one zip and I had to sit around waiting for another player to come by and help me out.

I does start to suck tho, when I went to a group dungeon VR8 and teamed up with a VR9 or 10 mage and all I basically had to do was watch him casting storm atronach almost every pull, doing 6 mobs without breaking any sweat in chain pulls. He even did the bosses almost entirely alone. I chipped in a heal now and then when he got to far ahead of himself. Want to feel inferior in 3 sec? Team up with a mage.

I actually like the challenge the VRs are putting on me, so please don't buff the templar in a way that'll make plaing the game too easy. Just give us a little more in the regenrative department and I'll be fine.

I went from VR1 to 9 almost entirely solo using sword/shield and a lot of jabs (after being obliterated each and every pull as a bowplar in VR1).

Sendarya

eliisra wrote: »

Sendarya wrote: »

I always play healers in MMO's, played a Templar in beta and hated it so much, I rolled my first ever sorcerer. Yes, I've played tanks and rogues and ranger styles, but I was always afraid of the glass cannon type. My husband told me about healing staffs and regen, and I went with Sorc and never looked back.

Same situation as you, but a different experience.

I also wanted to play healer. Was told all classes could do the job and made a sorc. It worked for normal dungeons, probably better than a temp at one point since Sorcerers get Dark Exchange early.

But now at rank 10-12+, running the last trial bosses, resto staff healers just doesn't cut it. Same in intensive PvP fight. Same experience with a few vet10 dungeons being with a squishy and stamina starved tank. The group needs and wants a Templar healer and I'm forced to dps.

There is little difference in magicka management at higher levels. Sorcerer gets a 5% cost reduction from passives and 10% recovery, that's it. All classes have access to the best regain magicka/cost reduction skill in the game, Spell Symmetry. But the Templar has superior healing skills and tools to help the tank with stamina gain.

So I'm leveling my Templar now for healing purposes. Sort of ridiculous how you need 1 class for dps and 1 for heal. I assumed this games philosophy was "Play the way you want".

Topic: I do agree that Templars need a dps boost. There is really nothing to argue about there. But NB is also urgent as far as PvE goes, since they have no purpose in a raid at all. You might get 1/12 NB for that damage reduction synergy, It's sad.

Here is the thing though, I've out healed Templars all through the game on my Sorc, AND I out DPS them (at the same time!).

As a very long time MMo healer (more than 13 years now!), I can tell you that to a raid/grouphealer, mana regen > everything else, because in long fights, having mana to keep healing after a few minutes is key. ONE spammable mediocre heal is better than multiple mana intensive burst heals.

I would rather have one or 2 decent heals that I can spam with nearly infinite mana (which Dark exchange provides), than numerous awesome burst heals that take most of my mana so I can't cast another one when I need to.

The sad fact is, and I don't like it so I'm not saying it to be cruel, Sorcerers make better healer early, middle and late game. Yes, temps can also heal, no doubt. But Sorc also bring a lot of utility (forgot the spell name...ups all party dps and healing), and like someone else says, can pump out massive dps when no healing is needed.

As I said in my earlier post, Templar was the first character I rolled. I wanted to love it, but I found myself realizing it was gimped in healing, gimped in DPS, and gimped in overall survivability/soloing ability pretty quickly.

I'm not proud to be one who shelved my potential Templar to Roll a sorc, but I wasn't going to knowingly gimp my gameplay.

TL:DR, ZoS, PLEASE fix this class so people actually want to play it! Some of us love playing healers, but this class is NOT the superior healer it should be!

My suggestion is simply to give them a better class mechanic for magika regen. That's it, that alone would make them far more viable than they are now.

Mephos

temps can additionally support the group with

stamina regeneration +80% for 9 seconds
+25% stamina instantly (spear shards) and stamina/magicka over time (morph)

don´t know if the +10% weapon damage buff also works for ally (power of the light)

and most important.. AoE dispell for all group members (cleansing ritual)

yeah, mages might be the beast magicka machine, but they don´t support groups that well in my eyes.

anakaki

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Drinkycrow wrote: »

I realize the change takes time but really...just come out and tell us how Zeni feels about the current state of Templars? Is Nick Konkle still looking at the Templar? How did you feel it was OK to release this game with classes (whether under powered or over powered) in this state of disarray? How long should we expect the community of other players to shelve the Templar class when it comes to the current content?

So what DO you think will happen if the Devs show up and....

"Templars are in good state currently. They only need a few bug fixes."

So then what? Are you really happy at that point was it really worth their time?

Yes, because then I know I need to reroll to a class thats more competetive and not just a spacewaster. Or it's time to accept the imbalance, or you know, move on.

anakaki

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

grizzbi wrote: »

The PTS 1.2 patch notes and the "road ahead" news give us quite a few information.

We must read between the lines.

I suppose that they think that we are not in such a bad shape: almost "balanced". Patch 1.2 is a slight overall buff. Since there are quite a few changes, we need to test them before making any assumption.

They seem to have momentarily given up on giving us proper resource management class tools. They probably thought that it was too early and risky and that they first had to adjust the best and less efficient classes (DK and NB) to find an overall balance.

Stamina builds and Magicka management will probably evolve with the gear and attributes changes coming this summer. I see this as an attempt to answer the player concerns about build diversity. And a way to make VR levels more interesting at the same time. It's not specific to templar. But I hope that it will give us more options. Tweaking equipment instead of classes is in fact a good idea. It gives more options, can be adjusted faster, and offer the possibility to avoid the classes buff and nerf drama.

Personally, I'll give them some time. Forum harassment works (see NB). But it's boring and I don't think it will change anything for us - templar - in the upcoming 2 or 3 months. They seem to have their plan. Let's see what happens and how it works.

Here's the thing, they knew they borked over templars when they changed restoring spirit. They took away a good resource management passive and forgot to fix the cost of abilities that made templars need that passive to begin with. On top of that, they replaced restoring spirit with a resource redux passive, that is beyond meaningless.

While you may be content paying for mediocrity and terrible design, there are many who aren't. Saying "Give em three months and MAYBE they'll have it worked out," is simply not acceptable.

This.

Drinkycrow

Every healing spell in the templar class is replaced better by a spell in another line..even the aoe dispell is better done with purge

Aeaeren

I honestly am to the point of not logging in the Templar at all. DPS completely blows and I am always struggling for Magicika. I was thinking this class would be like a Paladin but whoa was I wrong. My healing line is maxed out but I find I use the Restro stuff way more, outside of the instant cast heal which due to be completely magicka inefficient is only use in emergencies. The Healing Ultimate is decent and regens fast so that one is useful but why does any group need a Templar really? Everything else is not really needed by a group as the other classes can do it better and sadly yes even healing can be done better by other classes.

fenweeneb18_ESO

Everything has been said, the few people not agreeing are still levelling and have no idea of the end of the road..

My templar hit a brickwall in progression, i can't go to trials whenever i feel like it and IF i get a spot it's only as a healer. I'm lucky my guild isn't looking for top "times" or i would never get to go.

The game has sadly stopped for me, i play some in cyrodil but i always prefered PVE to PVP. I have one more month on my sub, i do not think anything will change and as much as i like the game i can't justify paying 15$ a month to be a limbo character.

Rerolling is not an option. Feeling sad, the game is fun yet i have to let it go..

Mephos

Drinkycrow wrote: »

Every healing spell in the templar class is replaced better by a spell in another line..even the aoe dispell is better done with purge

WHAT? xD .. 800 magicka for a dispell vs. 200 magicka .. the temp spell also heals additional AND increases healing received by 30% (temp spells - buggy ATM, all temps bump this thread please: temp bug 1.1.3).

WHAT? xD .. how comes that purge is better then the temp dispell?

Drinkycrow

I think its listed at 600 something on my bar..but the morph cheapens the cost..also its instant..no one needs to press x and it removes 2 effects/shortens a 3rd

Nuksuu

The hilarious yet rather sad fact for me is that my two characters are:

1. Medium Armour/Dual Wield/Bow Night Blade.
2. Heavy Armour/Sword & Board/2-H Templar.

Having some real wins with my adherence to traditional style rogue and tank builds. I don't really allocate blame to anyone but myself. I could have re-rolled when I saw how bad my toons were performing but was hindered by my opposition to FoTM builds and a demented belief that my builds would be playable one day.

They still are playable but not in a way that makes them attractive to others hence mostly solo play. It's a shame...but I am finding ways to experiment and increase survivability until the changes come. I will NOT respec. That is just compounding a losing situation with further penalty by shelling out big gold.

I must be a masochist as both toons are also WWs. I don't think that you could construct two more broken characters if you tried...and my constructs were sadly but humorously unintentional.

Wintersage

Drinkycrow wrote: »

You go ahead and bring DK's down to Templar survivability....see how many people play your game then.

So much this, I must sig it.

Hiply

Nuksuu wrote: »

The hilarious yet rather sad fact for me is that my two characters are:

1. Medium Armour/Dual Wield/Bow Night Blade.
2. Heavy Armour/Sword & Board/2-H Templar.

Having some real wins with my adherence to traditional style rogue and tank builds. I don't really allocate blame to anyone but myself. I could have re-rolled when I saw how bad my toons were performing but was hindered by my opposition to FoTM builds and a demented belief that my builds would be playable one day.

They still are playable but not in a way that makes them attractive to others hence mostly solo play. It's a shame...but I am finding ways to experiment and increase survivability until the changes come. I will NOT respec. That is just compounding a losing situation with further penalty by shelling out big gold.

I must be a masochist as both toons are also WWs. I don't think that you could construct two more broken characters if you tried...and my constructs were sadly but humorously unintentional.

Yeah, this guy. My first "main"? DW/Bow/Med NB, shelved in favor of? Resto/Destro/Light Templar Healer. The templar just hit the VRs, and it sucks that I will probably be starting a sorc soon, in self-defense.

Blud

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Well , they went back with the bitting jabs nerf , which was absurd to begin with , that is a start.

By the end of next month , i will look again , if i think they are doing a poor job , like always i will consider if i keep the sub or not.

I dont plan on waiting +3 months to have my class on a better balance situation , but i dont think i will have to do it.

This is right where I am.

I resubbed for this month, because I want to see the potential awesomeness of this game become a reality. But I'm not having fun with my Templar in the VR content at all.

I've started to level a Sorc and I will see where we are with Templars by the end of this month. But I'm not resubbing if there is not change ahead. I will wait until stuff gets straightened out. All of this stuff should have been dealt with in a much longer beta.

EDIT: I'm running light armor and resto staff. I want to roll like a paladin in heavy armor and melee, but it's not really workable for me at present. I've spent a lot of gold respeccing, too.

Mephos

Drinkycrow wrote: »

I think its listed at 600 something on my bar..but the morph cheapens the cost..also its instant..no one needs to press x and it removes 2 effects/shortens a 3rd

yeah, but tripple the costs, no heal increase.. and pressing X is not the biggest issue..

still don´t see the advantage sorry . ^^

ARtChi

I also found shocking that Road ahead only mention their mistakes on bitting jab/puncturing strike
I often time run trials (finished AA and 3/4 HR) and I feel like Templar is really lacking of magika regeneration atm (and i'm full gold gear, 2.2 K magika, 110 Regen/2sec, 21% crit, 58 reduction cost on my spells, using channeled focus, etc.).
Problem in the trial atm is that some bosses are just dps run (if you don't have the dps, you just die in the end), so most raids I participated in only have 2 Healers to be able to have enough dps to kill those.
With low ressources management, I just rely on potion spamming in order to be able to fullfill my role. Sometimes getting blame because "no heal???" and other classes that don't understand our magika regeneration problems : "just use dark exchange" >_<

Mephos wrote: »

yeah, but tripple the costs, no heal increase.. and pressing X is not the biggest issue..

still don´t see the advantage sorry . ^^

Once morphed, purge is around 300 (less with spell cost reduction actually) and a lot more usefull than our spells which can block other more interesting synergies

plymale.jonathanb14_ESO

Mephos wrote: »

Drinkycrow wrote: »

I think its listed at 600 something on my bar..but the morph cheapens the cost..also its instant..no one needs to press x and it removes 2 effects/shortens a 3rd

yeah, but tripple the costs, no heal increase.. and pressing X is not the biggest issue..

still don´t see the advantage sorry . ^^

You are forgetting the opportunity cost having the skill in the raid. A difference of 400 magika and you get to bring a sorc that will out dps the templar healer by 200-400% as well as have better sustained healing.

anakaki

ARtChi wrote: »

I also found shocking that Road ahead only mention their mistakes on bitting jab/puncturing strike
I often time run trials (finished AA and 3/4 HR) and I feel like Templar is really lacking of magika regeneration atm (and i'm full gold gear, 2.2 K magika, 110 Regen/2sec, 21% crit, 58 reduction cost on my spells, using channeled focus, etc.).
Problem in the trial atm is that some bosses are just dps run (if you don't have the dps, you just die in the end), so most raids I participated in only have 2 Healers to be able to have enough dps to kill those.
With low ressources management, I just rely on potion spamming in order to be able to fullfill my role. Sometimes getting blame because "no heal???" and other classes that don't understand our magika regeneration problems : "just use dark exchange" >_<

Full gold here. 2,3k magicka, 110 regen, 44% crit. I keep spamming potions like it's my bread and butter skill.

tinythinker

I am going to get to templars in a sec, so be patient if you will.

I started in beta with a DK. I made the same character for early access. I used dual-wield as my main weapon skill line for 1-50 with a restoration staff as the backup. I started with medium armor but switched to 5 heavy/2 light. After reaching veteran ranks I leveled up destruction staff and one handed + shield. I never made one of the OP-uber builds, I was just playing the way I wanted to. I didn't bother with tricks or exploits for combat. Everyone kept saying DKs were overpowered because, with certain armor/weapon skill line combos, their synergy with DK class skills, and at times some exploits, they were able to wipe the floor with everything. Thus some simplistic nerfs were thrown in for certain weapon and class skill lines to try to "balance" this.

Yet, here's the thing. As someone not playing one of the select special builds, even templars were outpacing me in both 1-50 and VR content at times. So I found a kind of kamikaze melee/buff-n-heal support combo that really worked for my character. And the whole idea was to rely on the toughness/survivability of the DK. Now the road ahead says they want to make DK survivability on par with every other class. I agree that some DK builds were OP and that changes were/are needed. No problem. I wasn't using those builds. But really? Watering down or removing the thing that is distinctively DK? Wow.

So why do I mention this? Because before all of the 1.2 and 1.3 nerfs, I decided to roll a templar as another primary character, an alternate main if you will. I left my DK at VR6 and started over to have the possibility of diversity in game play. I actually did better quite often/had an easier time with my templar while leveling 1-50. Not always, but frequently. I did use the light armor/resto staff approach because it was the the type of character I wanted to play, and I do think a heavy armor templar should be more viable.

In sum, not all DKs are OP, and not all templar are completely weak. Even if you "learn to play". But it *is* true that overall it was and is still possible to make a really super-powered DK and it is really hard to come anywhere close to that with a templar. I don't say this as speculation or based on videos or hearsay, but on my own experience. I really wish, then, that more players would help support the idea of creatively enhancing the weaker classes like templar and nightblade rather than nerfing/buffing resource costs, changing the radius of effect/number of targets affected, etc. To start sharing such ideas here on the forums for the devs to take notice of. Not on that thread, but in new threads related to specific class issues. This kind of thing isn't absent on the forums, but it is overshadowed by the nerf/buff fights and the trolling.

Yes, some basic types of nerfing/buffing are needed but creative, class-themed solutions are more fun and more to the point for a class like templar. In fact, that thread I linked already has comments suggesting interesting approaches to the templar issue. I don't want the heart of what makes a DK or a Sorc to be removed in the name of balance, rather I hope that that NBs get the skills at the heart of what makes their class distinct fully operational and that ZOS decides what the heart of being a templar is actually supposed to be.

I will be sticking with my templar because it is still fun to play in groups, and because I am hoping to be ready when they finally do some serious repair work on that class. Thanks for reading.

fenweeneb18_ESO

tinythinker wrote: »

So why do I mention this? Because before all of the 1.2 and 1.3 nerfs, I decided to roll a templar as another primary character, an alternate main if you will. I left my DK at VR6 and started over to have the possibility of diversity in game play. I actually did better quite often/had an easier time with my templar while leveling 1-50. Not always, but frequently. I did use the light armor/resto staff approach because it was the the type of character I wanted to play, and I do think a heavy armor templar should be more viable.

Your post is right on many points, yet you do not really speak of the REAL problem for templars.. 1-50 is no problem the templar feels very strong, VR levels are no problem with a decent build.. The problem is "end game" where you probably haven't been yet, you will not be wanted by groups and who can blame them when bringing more than 1 templar hinders the group potential.

Get to endgame, you will change your mind. That said again i do agree that huge nerfs are usually detrimental to the game and shows the poor creativity/panic of the devs..

ARtChi

tinythinker wrote: »

I left my DK at VR6 and started over to have the possibility of diversity in game play. I actually did better quite often/had an easier time with my templar while leveling 1-50. Not always, but frequently. I did use the light armor/resto staff approach because it was the the type of character I wanted to play, and I do think a heavy armor templar should be more viable.

The problem of templar is not leveling. Overall, templar is very good from 1-50.
I had a lot of pleasure leveling mine.
(Also, you might not realise that you got experienced from your former DK : block and interupt are making your life so much easier when you perfectly integrated those moves as reflexes.).

Until VR level, my 2H/bow templar in heavy armor was perfectly fine. But after chain dying in VR3 zone, i just decided to reconsider and went light armor, healing staff/1H shield because otherwise i couldn't solo anymore (like you I didn't want to go to a cookie cutter build with destro staff)
It wasn't so bad actually, except it's not exactly the character I planned to play...

Problem comes for high end content :
In PvE trial, Templar is less desirable than other classes. May be because those trials are build as dps race and not sustain survivability. May be also because ultimate from other classes / other skill lines are as desirable as remembrance (Atronach, Standard, Consuming darkness, Barrier, War horn) and that, except for Bearth of life and power of light, you don't have any skill so much needed in a raid.

Other big issue : except if you build your own raid, you'll have really hard time to find a tank or dps role. So you are cornered in to healer, which you are good at, but not so great since you have no real magika regeneration tools (but i think except for DK, other classes are much in the same position)

When it comes to PvP, when you play in a zerg, every build is possible as a templar. But when you play in small party, you quickly understand that your are not on the top of the food chain... And again, you often get cornered as healer. Your dps can be ok, but gimp you a lot more than other classes. As a pure tank, you will have a lot of survivability, but not as usefull as a DK who can defend him self, CC and do domage at the same time... etc.

Stamina is broken for now, and fixing it would open variety in the game... I think stamina dps templar would be awsome for exemple.
As, we need a magika regen buff to be the healers wish should be.
At last a little reworking on some abilities such as : Spear shard, Nova, Blinding light, healing ritual, cleansing ritual and overall Dawn's wrath dps is really necessary because atm those skills are pretty much useless.

I don't want other classes to be nerf, just templar to be more multi-purpose oriented (and a little buffed...)

PF1901

Mephos wrote: »

temps can additionally support the group with

stamina regeneration +80% for 9 seconds...

Now that you mention it, does that actually work [restoring aura]? Got that spell yesterday, went to cyrodiil to give some support with it and logged out with a bit of a "wtf" impression. Also my advance bar of that spell advanced like...i had to look at it with magnifying glass to get the "wee, it actually moved" pleasure moment. It felt like a skillpoint wasted. Hope I'm wrong though.

tinythinker

fenweeneb18_ESO wrote: »

Get to endgame, you will change your mind. That said again i do agree that huge nerfs are usually detrimental to the game and shows the poor creativity/panic of the devs..

ARtChi wrote: »

The problem of templar is not leveling. Overall, templar is very good from 1-50.
I had a lot of pleasure leveling mine.

Until VR level, my 2H/bow templar in heavy armor was perfectly fine. But after chain dying in VR3 zone, i just decided to reconsider and went light armor, healing staff/1H shield because otherwise i couldn't solo anymore (like you I didn't want to go to a cookie cutter build with destro staff)
It wasn't so bad actually, except it's not exactly the character I planned to play...

Problem comes for high end content :
In PvE trial, Templar is less desirable than other classes. May be because those trials are build as dps race and not sustain survivability. May be also because ultimate from other classes / other skill lines are as desirable as remembrance (Atronach, Standard, Consuming darkness, Barrier, War horn) and that, except for Bearth of life and power of light, you don't have any skill so much needed in a raid.

Other big issue : except if you build your own raid, you'll have really hard time to find a tank or dps role. So you are cornered in to healer, which you are good at, but not so great since you have no real magika regeneration tools (but i think except for DK, other classes are much in the same position)

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting that high end VR content or the Craglorn Trials are easy for a templar. Just that at least for 1-50 it seemed pretty good. And yeah, I noted that it would probably be hard doing a VR templar in heavy armor, which is too bad. I love the heavy armor for my DK since I play all my characters as Argonian and the collective racial and armor health bonuses work well together.

ARtChi wrote: »

(Also, you might not realise that you got experienced from your former DK : block and interupt are making your life so much easier when you perfectly integrated those moves as reflexes.).

I don't doubt that, but even comparing 40-50 on both (i.e. after I was used to game play) it still felt like the templar was on par with the DK.

Anyway, just watched the video for the new dungeon for the next update where the major figures in sorting out game development were doing a run to show off how fun and hard the vet level Crypt of Hearts will be. I have no idea what their thoughts are about templars, so I won't speculate, but if there isn't some sense of needing more fixes than currently identified, I wonder what would happen if they tried the following:

1. Use their game-testing abilities to roll two VR5 templars and two VR5 nightblades. Only allow the templars to have restoration staves . (Maybe put the templars in 5 heavy/2light? Naw, too much.) Run that as a group in an appropriate vet level dungeon.

2. Use the same abilities to roll two VR5 dragonknights and two VR5 sorcerers. Run that group in the same dungeon.

As someone with a DK, I am not "jealous" of them nor of sorcerers, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that group 2 is going to fair a lot better in damage, speed, and overall survivability than group 1. Maybe I am wrong. If so I would love to know how and why. I am not looking to complain or overlook templar strengths so if there is a way to have a better templar beyond maxing out light armor and using a restoration staff to regenerate magicka I am interested to know the tricks and tips. I do think they have some cool features and lots of potential. And as I wrote above, I am not calling for nerfing DKs and Sorcs even more than they have already been, just hoping for more work put into figuring out how to fix nightblades and improve templars.