Official Discussion Thread for "The Road Ahead – June 4th"

Snowstrider

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

Ameliae wrote: »

Colouring of items is def a plus in this announcement. I was happy to see that the screenshot gave an insight that many colouring options are there, and not limited too a typical colour palette consisting of red, blue, green etc etc. it would be nice, as others have suggested, to have this as a craft rather than an element where no mats are required. This could even be done as having to collect ochres around the landscapes in the same manner as ore, plants, wood etc.

Count me as another vote for this. The dye stuff does look interesting, but PLEASE make it a craft, not just something you can pay a merchant for. Even better, make it something that you can only achieve with a COMBINATION of crafts. For example: max alchemy in order to make the dyes, max wood smith or cloth in order to apply the dyes. Make it a worthwhile valuable thing for the crafters in the community.

Also, please err on the side of caution with all the color options. I like the variety, but like others have mentioned, I really don't want to see some jerk running around in full hot pink and bright green armor looking like an easter egg. You could get plenty of variety just from variations on saturation (richer or more washed out) and lightness/darkness, with just a few variations in hue. Too many bright, bold, or odd colors will make the game look like WoW more than ESO, and be seriously detrimental to the immersion factor. Besides, you can always limit the colors to start, and add more variety over time if needed.

Armors already look really silly,Especially veteran armor,

GTech_1

Improve the Crafted set bonuses by a TON, or Nerf the "drop-only" set bonuses while you are at it. 8 traits researched on 5 pieces to get a crappy set bonus?? ... OR get lucky / buy it off of the Guild store? Which one does everyone choose? You guessed it. And there goes the incentive for the crafters.

kevlarto_ESO

Good to hear about what's going on, will be nice to see those updates make it in game..

Kimyrielle

It's way, waaaay too much stereotypical 'endgame' content for my taste. Dungeons, raids. Oh wait, they call them trials here. Hard stuff for that minority of the playerbase that actually loves playing with sweat on the forehead all the time. Good for them. But we have seen that before...in pretty much every other MMO. If I really wanted dungeons and raids/trials and nothing else, I could play...you know...pretty much every other MMO. I tend to quit MMOs as soon as I reach 'endgame', because I don't want to grind scripted boss fights ad nauseum. But since ever WoW inflicted them on us, every MMO dev seems to act like that's the only possible way to design max level content.
Oh well. Seeing that even their longterm plans don't include any content I have the slightest sort of interest in (the only thing up to patch 1.3 I find interesting is the armour dye system, go figure!), I suppose it's time to move on for me soon.

Darkonflare15

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Aenthel wrote: »

Sadly, still not a single word about 90% of the skills that are NOT Light Armor or Staff...

Yeah, I read that and was suddenly very concerned that the Devs were struck with the same Class-based tunnel vision as the bulk of the forums.

The balance issues aren't so much with the classes as they are with Weapon and Armor skills.

Yeah thats true but I still want fixes for all of my skills that do work properly in my class.

Remag_Div

FOV slider is such a needed addition for first-person players! Looking forward to having that added in soon.

Torgul

Itemization is the exact WRONG direction when it comes to the PvP/AvA side of the game.

Itemization == endless gear grind.

For PvP you want the vast majority of players to be able to get the top-end gear with reasonable effort. Requiring an eternal grind to get the gear required to be PvP-viable will just take players OUT of the already underpopulated AvA campaigns. VR grinding is already bad enough. Don't add a gear grind on top of it.

Leave the grinding for the PVE/Questing/Trials side of things.

thelg

So I am guessing DKs will be getting range skills and escape skills that their survivability is getting gutted

Blud

I like that the devs are hearing what people are saying in the forums and responding to it. Thanks for the update.

On itemization, I hope that the new gear that's harder to acquire is also craftable. I don't want ESO to turn into a game that only lets "raiders" or AvA farmers get the best gear and makes crafting irrelevant.

It might also be cool to buff xp in the VR zones so they are not so empty with everyone farming in Craglorn. But don't nerf Crag xp either. Let farmers farm if they want and let questers feel like they are getting enough xp while doing quests. Maybe add exploring xp and chest xp back into the VR zones?

Also, maybe more clearly delineate solo from group content in the VR zones 1-10. At the risk of having people tell me I suck and I should l2p, some of the content ranges from difficult and challenging to frustrating and even enraging, at least for me on a Temp, especially with healer NPCs around.

I'm having fun and I've resubbed for another month.

Heraclea

Loved the game at launch. Loved the look; loved the attempt to make an MMO feel like an Elder Scrolls game. Loved the writing on the quests. There were rough patches -- mostly weird difficulty spikes. I figured that would sort itself out in the first few weeks. Part of it seems to have.

But I feel like I've made mistakes with my first character that are too hard to undo. I rolled a DK, apparently the currently disfavored class. I specialized in heavy armor. I levelled sword and board. Since I realized that inventory constraints meant one craft per character (and really, one craft per account) I made a bad mistake and specialized in blacksmithing. I didn't mean to play through fast, but I've made it to VR3.

I always make a character like this my first main. Frustration is the game killer for me. That's why I choose heavy armor and melee weapons and build for toughness on a first character: to learn the game with a minimum of frustration. Losing fights and making my way back is not fun for me. This evening I gave the invisible Spirit of Naemon the three deaths that's all I'm willing to give any encounter, and logged out in disgust. Like I said, frustration frustrates me.

While I don't mind playing through the other races' content, VR levels are not fun. It's like levelling in reverse. The further in you go, the weaker you feel and the more frustrated you become.

On top of this, the developers are telling me that my class is "stronger than intended" and that further nerfs are coming to bring the class "in line with the survivability of the other classes." I have to call shenanigans on that. If I had a class that was out of line on survivability, I'd expect a heavy armor version of that class to be just about impossible to kill in PvE. It just doesn't seem to be working for me.

Now I realize that I could blow all the gold I have for one chance to rip out all the points I've spent in 1h/shield and 2h weapons; rip out all the points in heavy armor, rip out all the points I've spent in blacksmithing and dump all of the accumulated materials; and start from zero with staffs and light armor, since that's apparently where whatever makes DK "stronger than intended" is. I could, but I am not willing to.

I still have a fair amount of time on the account -- like I said, I really liked the game at launch, and made some decisions I regret. And I've made the sorcerer I was apparently supposed to. I may log in from time to time, in hopes things improve. I'd really like to be able to enjoy this game more. But if it's supposed to be harder than it already is I know I won't, and need to quit before I spend any more time trying to build up characters that the game will then wreck.

Murmeltier

Greetings,

i like this Game and i like the Transparenz and Motivation how you explain your Steps and Motivations.

I am no Profi, i see me more as an old Dog and i have seen some MMORPGs outthere, in the last Years. One of the biggest Errors i have seen, is the Attempt to give the Player too much Level and Equip Difference, so he can collect massive Advantages against other Players, who dont have this Level or Equip.

Everyone knows what happens if a Vet-12 Player meets a new Level 50 Player in PvP, everyone knows what happens if a new equiped Player search a Group in the Highlevel-Content.

You force the Player to reach max Equip and Veteran Level, so he can compete with the other Players in PvP or use the High-Content. The Time someone needs to reach Max-Level, is a Big Factor too. You try to offer the Player a long Time Motivation but the Difference in Power and Advantages frustrates more and more Players, over the Time.

It is well known that some few Players start in every MMORPG as fast as they can to reach the Max-Level, so they have the Chance to *pawn* other Players in PvP or get the best Equip, best Groups etc. This Players are the first who yells that the Game is boring at Max-Level and that forces the Developer to offer more heavy Content at Max-Level. The *normal* playing Gamers, i mean not Casuals because i dont like this Racism, the normal Players needs much more Time because they dont hurry through the Levels with Tips from the I-Net and Support from Cheats, they explore and play chilled with others and learn through try and Error.

Now you want to get more Difference to set up the Softcap and Gear Difference, so the *normal* Players outthere needs more Time to close up, to the Players who dwells on the Max-Level? Do you know how frustrating it is when a new Player comes into this Game and see the Difference in Level/Gear and the Time it is need to reach this?

Lower the Bonus and Difference through the Veteran Levels and Equip so it is no need to have them, make more a light Bonus with some nice Effects like an Aura/Titles and Looks. So this Numbers make not much Difference in PvP and PvE. Lower the Time to get the Max-Level and give some other longtime Motivations, that doesnt give too much Numbers.

The Advantage of this is, more Player have Fun in PvE and PvP, you have more People who uses the Content and going PvP. Isnt it better to have a large Community who makes the Game alive, over some Players who try to dictacte with their Playstyle the Fun of others?

It is ok to get Advantages through a higher Level of whatever but it is not ok to get some Gamebreaking Advantages, through this. This kills some MMORPGs outthere, the Difference in Equip and Numbers and Time to get this as a *normal* playing Gamer. This Problems are well known, you have a good Game at the Start which offers much Fun and you want to go this Way where other MMORPGs collapses?

Sometimes i only can shake my Head and mumble: *My oh my, why you cant see what you are doing now, this is all happened before*. You should see this because you have many Infos from other MMORPGs and Forums outthere.

MFG Murmeltier.

Matheusbr0

Things to work on:
Make heavy armor more wortwhile
Increase the overall power of stamina skills
Add more stuff to pvp not only to pve!

Lywen

I just noticed the note it said on the Dye picture a type of black "From Achievement Weekly Trials Complete". So will completed achievement = what colors you have available?

ZurinArctus

Dye system ftw.

I just hope they don't make obtaining the colors ***. From the looks of things, it just seems like a generic palette to pick from. Hope they incorporate crafting into it.

Parthrax0923

I'm so excited about this! Can't wait!!!!

Blud

The thing that brought me to this game originally was Cyrodiil for AvA. I'd like to see most of the effort go into making that the place that draws players. I'm glad to see the devs are thinking about that (with different rule sets). I'd like to know more.

curlyqloub14_ESO

Kimyrielle wrote: »

It's way, waaaay too much stereotypical 'endgame' content for my taste. Dungeons, raids. Oh wait, they call them trials here. Hard stuff for that minority of the playerbase that actually loves playing with sweat on the forehead all the time. Good for them. But we have seen that before...in pretty much every other MMO. If I really wanted dungeons and raids/trials and nothing else, I could play...you know...pretty much every other MMO. I tend to quit MMOs as soon as I reach 'endgame', because I don't want to grind scripted boss fights ad nauseum. But since ever WoW inflicted them on us, every MMO dev seems to act like that's the only possible way to design max level content.

I see this opinion often, and while you're certainly entitled to feel that way, the people who express this opinion never offer any suggestion about what endgame content they would like to see.

If everything else is "too stereotypical", and you don't like raids/dungoens/etc, what, in your opinion, would be good end game content? I'd really like to know, because people who have this complaint of yours never seem to have any better ideas - if you have some, please share.

Kimyrielle

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

Kimyrielle wrote: »

It's way, waaaay too much stereotypical 'endgame' content for my taste. Dungeons, raids. Oh wait, they call them trials here. Hard stuff for that minority of the playerbase that actually loves playing with sweat on the forehead all the time. Good for them. But we have seen that before...in pretty much every other MMO. If I really wanted dungeons and raids/trials and nothing else, I could play...you know...pretty much every other MMO. I tend to quit MMOs as soon as I reach 'endgame', because I don't want to grind scripted boss fights ad nauseum. But since ever WoW inflicted them on us, every MMO dev seems to act like that's the only possible way to design max level content.

I see this opinion often, and while you're certainly entitled to feel that way, the people who express this opinion never offer any suggestion about what endgame content they would like to see.

If everything else is "too stereotypical", and you don't like raids/dungoens/etc, what, in your opinion, would be good end game content? I'd really like to know, because people who have this complaint of yours never seem to have any better ideas - if you have some, please share.

I don't want to take this thread way off topic, so I will just drop the hint of that the only MMO I ever liked to play maximum level in was Star Trek Online. Why? Because they expanded the content horizontally instead of just making everything more difficult and grindy.

What I want is surprisingly straightforward: More of the same content I did and enjoyed all the time while leveling. I don't want the game to turn into something completely different just because my character now happens to be max level - yet this is pretty much what most MMOs do in their "Haha, now your lazy leveling days are over, welcome to raiding hell!!!" fashion. Other than just more questing areas, things I could like are mildly challenging dynamic dungeons with NON-scripted fights that adapt to group size and will be randomized each time you do them. Or player housing with an expanded crafting system to customize them (yeah, yeah, I know they sort of said they want to do them...just that most of us are likely to die of old age before we will see it). Or -complex- zone invasions the sort of Rift had. Or zones with dynamic events going on all the time. Or randomized quest givers that assign you duties from a larger pool of quests you can repeat (think dailies on steroids). Or scavenger hunt missions that make you travel the world for clues, fun and the obligatory chest at the end of the rainbow.

I am sure I could think of more, but as I said, trying to keep this brief because of off-topicness. Hope that will suffice to defuse that notion of yours that people with my opinion are just non-constructive haters, though.

Mysticman

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We're going to continue providing more content on a regular basis. Veteran Dungeons, areas like Craglorn, Trials, and etc.

Once again the Elder Scroll single player crowd gets ignored, no new content for us just MORE Dungeons & Trials and more Craglorn for the small percent of hard core MMO players. I guess that "play the way you want" crap doesn't apply to the players who prefer to play solo and not be forced to run around with 3 or more strangers in order to play the new content. I don't see anything in the future updates to makes Elder Scroll single players want to continue paying $15 a month for.

ShedsHisTail

Torgul wrote: »

Itemization is the exact WRONG direction when it comes to the PvP/AvA side of the game.

Itemization == endless gear grind.

For PvP you want the vast majority of players to be able to get the top-end gear with reasonable effort. Requiring an eternal grind to get the gear required to be PvP-viable will just take players OUT of the already underpopulated AvA campaigns. VR grinding is already bad enough. Don't add a gear grind on top of it.

Leave the grinding for the PVE/Questing/Trials side of things.

Should just separate the campaigns. Have regular campaigns and veteran campaigns each only accessible to players of the necessary veteran or non veteran status.

Csub

Mysticman wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We're going to continue providing more content on a regular basis. Veteran Dungeons, areas like Craglorn, Trials, and etc.

Once again the Elder Scroll single player crowd gets ignored, no new content for us just MORE Dungeons & Trials and more Craglorn for the small percent of hard core MMO players. I guess that "play the way you want" crap doesn't apply to the players who prefer to play solo and not be forced to run around with 3 or more strangers in order to play the new content. I don't see anything in the future updates to makes Elder Scroll single players want to continue paying $15 a month for.

It's funny how I mostly read that there is too much solo content already and you say the opposite. I don't say I don't want single player updates, of course I want, I like those, I would also like PvP to be more rewarding and give more xp despite I don't PvP that much. Or I would also like to be able to skip the veteran level "quest grinding" from our second character like how we can skip tutorial, in spite of I Generally enjoy questing.

It's that "once again" part of yours that is out of place I believe since we are only talking about the second content update and it is not even at our doorstep yet. If this was like the 5th update and still no single player update, I would understand you. The devs said not all update will be liked equally by everyone. If you like raiding and group content, you probably liked Craglorn more than PvP or single player oriented people. Single Player lovers (like me) will probably like the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood Update more.

Adhal

Looks great, looking forward to the dyes. But please, for gods sake don't hold black and white over our head as a *rare* color

red_wolf_sb14a_ESO

I am disappointed to see nothing in the direction of solo or casual content mentioned here. Where is the content updates to appeal to the non hard core customers?

Ser Lobo

thebigMuh wrote: »

Please do not tie the dyes to achievements (as can be seen in the screenshot).

Make them craftable, purchasable, drops, whatever - but please not achievement bound.

Ciao, Muh!

I disagree. In a game that is already swamped for crafters, we don't need even 10 more crafting resources, much less the number of options listed here.

While I'm not for or against attaching dyes to achievements, I very much don't want them as a craftable resource that will take up even more inventory space.

gronbek

Glad I unsubbed. Nothing about melee, heavy armor balance. And the higher level you are the weaker you get in comparisson to mobs. Nothing about thieves, bortherhood guild and justice system.

And nothing about the cheating NPC system where they can shoot and target you though walls. And Target lock range attackes if out of range. Oh my....

wizzerd_lg_ESO

Itemization – we’ll add gear that’s harder to acquire but more worthwhile. We're looking at gear that will make others envious when you’re wearing or wielding it—both in appearance and in stat boosts. To do this, we’ll adjust soft caps so that they don't kick in quite as quickly. We have to be very careful about how much we adjust numbers, because the greater the variance, the more people can hurt their intended builds.

So, some thoughts on this...

First off, regarding the soft caps, rather than seeing each stat have a single soft cap and adjusting that up or down over and over, I'd rather see each stat have a soft cap based on multiple sources, with a base softcap for the first source, a smaller one for the next and so on, with continuously diminishing returns for each additional source of buff. Something like a 25% diminish for each additional source... Largest buff counted first, with 0% diminish, 2nd largest buff only gets 75% applied, 3rd largest buff gets 56.25% applied, 4th largest gets 42.18% applied, and so forth. This way your best item for some particular bonus is still your best item, and you'd always continue getting improvements from new items/spells/etc, so nothing ever becomes completely wasted... but with enough of the same type of bonus in a stack, other options will likely be better

Regarding "showing off" gear... I'd really like to see special named items have a dynamic level, so that they stay the same level as you, or maybe they gain experience similar to special abilities so long as you've got them equipped while you gain XP. That way, if you really like the lore associated with an item (like the two handed sword you get from the king early in your Daggerfall adventures, or a full set of Lion Guard armor) you can keep using it throughout your career, improving it with craft skills as you gain the opportunity, rather than selling it for a few gp or chucking it in the decon pile. Of course, such items would have to be bound, and any level adjustments for the item would have to be specific to the character they were earned with... It would make such treasured items much more valuable though, from a character/RP/lore perspective (and probably worth a few more gp in the guild store too, from those characters who gave up their early treasures for mere coin or xp).

ckf12b14_ESO

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard that the dye system was going to be tied into your achievement points? Honestly can't remember where I heard that, just remember someone telling me that. I very much like that idea, specific colors/patterns relegated to achievement points. Gives them an actual meaning (since there's no leaderboard or even way to link overall achievement points anyways..)

eric22santiago_ESO

The road ahead...

Creating a robust sandbox. This could appeal to all player types; soloers, groupers, pvpers, etc. This could include but not limited to housing (which is in the works, i'm just stating things id like to see). Guild halls, combined with player housing, could give beneficial bonuses to players such as buffs, bonus stats, portals to specific locales, personal crafting stations, etc. Give us a separate world to spend our off-hours in building YOU, the devs, an entire separate world. Give us a continent for us to 'minecraft' in.

Why is crafting almost always separate from other spheres of the game. Why not combine crafting with adventurers. Such as gathering a group of players with a, perhaps, unique crafter to journey the depths of a tomb so the crafter could build/create a magical 'something' on the magical forges of the late great Lich Vaer'ael using a volcanic vein to smelt daedric armor while the group fends off an undead presence.

Armor dyes would be cool to be able to be crafted. As mentioned hot pink shall not fly in ESO (I have confidence it won't appear) but why not go further and allow the ability to alter the looks of items either by simply having a finite set of optional looks already designed by the dev team or by allowing the playerbase tools to create their own looks. Sandbox tools are where it's at right now (and/or just customization) with the prospects of EQLandmark's toolset and Wildstar's wild customization. Give players tools...

Alternate game types such as mini-games or meta-games would be cool. Did citizens of Cyrodil spend all their free time only on the Arena? Did people not play chess or CARDS??

These are all things possible that veer away from an end-game filled with grinding. I'm just spewing things that come to mind that hopefully catch wind and spark interest so that we have things to do once we reach lvl cap and have had our fill with quests and dungeons. If you want ESO to be immersive and alive then give us stuff to do that doesn't require us to punch our time-cards in and hop on the grind.

dragnier

I would simply like to say that there are a few things you could do to improve things even further which I don't think have been mentioned and a few that probably have been mentioned. If they all were, I didn't see them.

First, I think it would be great if there were Veteran Morphs to certain class skills that you could only attain after reaching certain veteran levels.

Second, an expansion to the previous idea would be to require quests to unlock similar veteran morphs for non-class based skills. Such as, seeking out a sword master for elite training or whatever... just an example but you could do any number of things with it.

Third, most of the class balance issues I've seen in regards to Nightblade are more centered around Stamina builds being weaker no matter what class you are than truly specific to Nightblade.

Fourth, Nightblade is the "stealh" class and barely gets any bonuses to stealth above what other classes get... and those we do get aren't that great. However, I have seen a slight move to fix this with your intended change to Master Assassin, though that seems slight. I originally wanted to build a NB that could dual wield and cast both, but as things stand right now that is even less viable than a pure stamina build.

Fifth, fix the loot system... Running a dungeon 50+ times trying to get a gear set simply because no one can trade you that piece you need when it drops for them numerous times even though they won't use it is just a little silly and feels like way too much of a grind.

Finally, keep up the progress. I know it isn't easy "behind the code" so to speak. I've seen some progress in the right direction and I've seen other things that really make me scratch my head and wonder who thought it up and approved it. I honestly want this game to improve over time and become something very fun to play.

KerinKor

More content - We're going to continue providing more content on a regular basis. Veteran Dungeons, areas like Craglorn, Trials, and etc. Further, we’re going to allow dungeons to level to the group leader. This means you'll be able to go back and play any dungeon to get rewards appropriate for your group leader’s level.

@ZOS_GinaBruno, can you please ask Matt to therefore confirm that post-VR10 ESO is now firmly a 1990s group-or-die game where those who don't enjoy having to 'group up' and deal with PUG drama all the time simply to level their characters have no viable way to progress.

Group content is fine for the phat-lewt and e-peen fixated, as long as it's optional and not on a critical path it's fine, I can do it or not as I choose, but right now it seems to me ZOS intends only to provide group-only content for VR11+.

I've just started my second character to reach VR on her journey, but there's no point if she'll get to VR10 and then not be able to go any further.

If you can get this confirmed for me I'd be grateful, as I can un-sub sooner rather than later.

Thank you.